this game signed up in like 4 seconds, I guess put me on the replacement list. I really really like your PM idea. It's badass.
TL Mafia XLII
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this game signed up in like 4 seconds, I guess put me on the replacement list. I really really like your PM idea. It's badass. | ||
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TEAM ASSEMBLE Alright, everyone PM flamewheel and mason me, then I want a mass role claim D1. | ||
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HASTE IS OF THE ESSENCE | ||
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On June 14 2011 03:03 Varpulis wrote: The game hasn't even started yet and I already know that you're scum. When does the voting thread get created? WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW YOU DONT BITCH | ||
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On June 14 2011 12:01 Varpulis wrote: A couple of guidelines for blues/players in general:
That's all that I can think of atm. If you agree, disagree, or would like to add suggestions, do so. Let's get this discussion started. I think you meant to say how everyone should mason me. | ||
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Your plan sucks because you don't know who will PM you after the dt "confirms" you, not to mention if you somehow magically die we just lost half of the blues mason abilities. | ||
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On a game related note. This is a NORMAL set up, regardless of whatever this silly PM mechanic is. Focus on behavioral analysis because there is no way to legitimately break the game set up that doesn't come with considerable risk. Think of it this way, in a normal set up with the ability to PM, would you ever recommend a mass role claim Day 2? No, so why the hell would this be any different? Hint: It's not. Focus on behavioral analysis and putting pressure on people, that is how towns have won games in the past, and that's how we will win this game. Making a plan to abuse format is always secondary to behavioral analysis in any set up. My next set of grievances would be that. 1. We can't be sure of your alignment. 2. This plan sucks. 3. I don't know anything of your ability to competently deal with an influx of PM's and sort out the bullshit from the nonbullshit. 4. Plan sucks. | ||
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On June 14 2011 18:18 FudgeMunkey wrote: That makes sense, but will any of the medics actually use their saves on you or will they completely ignore you? The mere threat of me being protected should be enough. | ||
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I know where I am placing my bomb tonight, this is ridiculous. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:51 ~OpZ~ wrote: oh yeah....Let's go. I think Night 0 start is kind of crazy. Some people are gonna be all sad face in the morning. I haven't got a decent feel for anyone yet. I'll keep you posted. Some people have been posting a lot though. And I'm laughing a little at my name being on that zodiac list. Oh yea!! I'm up there with the likes of Ver, BC and RoL. Srsly, Ver and RoL haven't went to your house to punch you for that comment BC? =D Remember that time you vigi'd me when I was a veteran and combined with a mafia hit killed the only person to successfully lynch a mafia? I NEVER FORGET | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:14 Mataza wrote: Yes, but what are we supposed to talk about? If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about. Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on. Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1. What exactly is the best alternative here? I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill. Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom. "Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp." Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia? You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle. So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously. You can´t fake active night roles for long. The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. This is wrong. You make way too many assumptions here, first of all, who cares if the mafia is found out? You act as if mafia are absolutely self serving, which they aren't. They are part of a team. If I was mafia and I played an intricate part in my teams victory, just because I die doesn't remove from what I have accomplished, and I still get the win. So yes, mafia might eventually get found out in a circle, but by then they will have gotten enough info to justify their deaths. And a godfather can easily fake a medic, vigilante, and veteran role so just excluding vet's from your circle doesn't do shit. A medic/vigilante/veteran role cannot guarantee confirm a player in one night, only a DT check can. If you spend 3 night cycles circle jerking yourself around with DT checks then mafia can just float in the inactives. As stated earlier, DT's should be checking inactives, active players WILL be outed by superior behavior analysis by good players. The circle plan sucked. My plan was better because it involved me doing something I am good at, and that others know I am good at, and doesn't involve having our blues suck each other off for 3 night cycles while trying to coordinate their collective stupidity. | ||
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On June 15 2011 05:20 sandroba wrote: Well, I haven't thought about that, if I'm mafia I would probably be auto elected GF on the off chance the plan might go through, so it's more risky than I originally thought for you guys to trust it. Then again I know I'm not mafia, so if you think so aswel go ahead and proceed with the plan. The plan does not exclude analysis, it only speeds up the process of clearing and confirming the subjects of analysis. Let's supose there is a list of suspicious people based on behaviour and voting paterns on a previous inocent lynch. I can organize DTs/Vigs to check supicious players on that list and hit the dubious lurkers more efficiently. It does not stops or hinders any kind of discussion, and it's not like the opinion of the "circle" will be taken at face value either (because even the "circle" does not know each other). Even if a guy is confirmed does not mean he's right as we can tell from many previous games. The plan I'm sugesting is merely an optimization tool for the efficiency of our blues. The plan itself is blue efficient because it's player list dependant and it's not "required" to work. If no DTs check me or if I die night 0 due to no medic protect we can move on with our lifes. You guys can figure out if I'm mafia or not, hopefully. (clue: I'm not) I have a better method of organizing blues that doesn't involve a potentially scum third party and is completely transparent to the town. X,Y,Z,1,2 are all inactive players. I take the player count (30) divide by 5. we get groups of 6. if you are a DT/Vig between 1-6 shoot/check X If you are a DT/Vig between 7-12 shoot/check Y If you are a DT/Vig between 13-18 shoot/check Z If you are a DT/Vig between 19-24 shoot/check 1 If you are a DT/Vig between 25-30 shoot/check 2 Minimal overlap, rapes lurkers, don't need some shitty plan that gets you killed, the best part of it is that anyone can make the list of who to check/vig and it can be carried out. | ||
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On June 15 2011 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote: The idea of this game is to try and determine who is scum through analyzing their behavior, not figuring out how to break the system using power-roles. The power-roles are there as tools to be used as necessary, not crutches to base our entire game upon. This message has been brought to you by a noob. I think I said that 5 posts ago. | ||
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On June 15 2011 07:18 Mataza wrote: RoL, if I recall correctly your own plan hinges on people trusting you and 1-2 Docs randomly protecting you just in case you get targeted. You don´t plan to achieve anything, except that you are able to pressure scum to slip. Your assumption is, that scum buy *themselves* into a blatant trap. And then you hope scum, after you told everyone what exactly you intend to do, will still slip carelessly. You being able to scumhunt via PM is a pure assumption. You are convinced it is so, but everyone else has just to hope you are actually that good. I don´t think your plan is any better, espcially for the part where you tie up half the masoning ability of the whole town. Without any tangible benefit. You might as well get manipulated by a persuasive scum. There is no guarantee you won´t except for your promise to be Superman in PM-Land. All I need to say to this is, I am that good. My track record speaks for itself. | ||
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On June 15 2011 07:19 ~OpZ~ wrote: While I will gladly admit your amazing mafia hunting skills....Do you think by the end of night 0 you can find all the mafia by having mafia PM you. I'd be glad to mason you, but I feel it'd be a waste of time when I see your name pop up dead tomorrow.....Should I mason with BC instead? I like BC. BC's nice. Lol. medics know wattup. I better not die. | ||
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On June 17 2011 01:06 Mataza wrote: It´s not that easy to find blueslips for a vigi in this thread. Discussion flows at the speed of snails, so anyone has ample time revise their post or just postpone them for a couple of hours and they will still be on the same page. What you propose will most probably achieve the following: Our blues will use their mason abilities on snippets and unsure reads. If they mistake lurking scum for a lurking blue, they invite themselves to a nice, beefy bullet buffet N1. Cops should breadcrumb their checks and that´s that. Aside from that, I´m disappointed that votes travel away from ILJ without any reason but prolonged silence in this thread. Look at the low activity. I would strongly consider that scum wouldn´t defend their buddies, but instead wait for people to get insecure about the case and change the vote on their own accord. Which happened, YM did drop the case already. Imho the Sinani case is jumping on townie acts scummy because he has no reads. Not having any noteworthy reads is not a crime especially in this thread where fuck all happens. The Aidnai case is laughable at best. The only thing that stumbled upon me is Demorcerfs first post: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 08:13 DeMorcerf wrote: On page 9: "Focus on behavioral analysis because there is no way to legitimately break the game set up that doesn't come with considerable risk. . . . . Focus on behavioral analysis and putting pressure on people, that is how towns have won games in the past, and that's how we will win this game. Making a plan to abuse format is always secondary to behavioral analysis in any set up." At any point in the game... though I can't think of any logic to explain why they wouldn't do it before the first night ends. Has anyone seen a mafia that waited? Concerning this zodiac plan, I don't think I really understand why we wouldn't want the insurance-agents (medics) to keep as many of the most experienced players as possible alive for the first day or two and tell them not to attempt to save anyone on that list? The more of those players we keep around, are we not more likely to have a greater number of well-designed posts with strong analysis? Those players are the best at putting pressure and stimulating discussion and analysis. How do these plans work though if only a few people follow each of them? sandroba's plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me, I question how much useful and trustworthy information we could gain from it, especially if the majority of the town seems to have already expressed a strong opinion that they will not follow/ignore it. Rebirthoflegend's attempt to mass up mason-partners should allow him additional analysis of whoever does mason him, even if only half a dozen do so. If he is mafia though? I am wondering how efficient it will be if a large percentage of the town uses one of their two masons on the same, one person, couldn't it limit the ability of the town to disseminate information later on should that person die at some point or turn out to be scum? We shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? Everyone should be contributing in analysis, those who don't attempt to do so are suspicious, aren't they? Second thing I noticed, he seems to be in love with questions marks. Dribbling about without any conclusion and reiterating a lot of what other people already said. You could shorten it into: "Sandrobas plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me. I doubt it would bring us any info even if it worked. As for RoL´s plan, we shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? " That is the only thing I picked up so far, and it sure as hell is not much. He is with very likely just an insecure new player and town. But as this thread direly needs topics to discuss: What does the rest of you think? I am boss as fuck. | ||
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Lynch kenpachi, honestly maybe I make bold statements but at least I provide reasoning. | ||
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On June 17 2011 10:48 Kenpachi wrote: GUYS WTF CHANGE YOUR VOTE NAO NAO NAOANOANAONAO ilj looks to be town :s you guys are all jackasses. I told you I checked KP, why didn't you lynch him? | ||
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On June 17 2011 17:22 Node wrote: If RoL is blue (and the safe money is on he isn't) he's a vet trying to draw a mafia shot by claiming everything under the sun. But the fact that Kenpachi of all people realized that he's playing terribly should underline just how useless RoL has been so far this game. I also fail to understand how Kenpachi is pointing out a blue when he calls RoL the GF. Remember that time I carried you in Merc Mafia? don't hate~~ just hand grenade | ||
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Just some advice. | ||
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On June 18 2011 11:05 Kenpachi wrote: Isnt scamp one of them Vets? yeah i think he might be linked to RoL if he is linked to anyone at all. Things like this is why you were supposed to be killed last night. damn it. | ||
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On June 18 2011 10:16 hiro protagonist wrote: Because I want DTs to mason me. That way we can better coordinate town actions. Dts, don't mason me until I am not the lynch target. That would be a waste. For starters this is one of the dumbest things I have read in the entire thread, and I assure you have a read a lot of dumb things in this thread. | ||
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Will get to explaining why in a bit, I am catching up on the thread. He said something that stuck out at me as really really scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230789¤tpage=15#287 | ||
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On June 18 2011 15:34 youngminii wrote: Everyone, do me a favour. Click that "All" button at the page numbers, type ctrl+F and look up rebirthoflegend. How the fuck is that not scummy. Here are some golden quotes. NOTE: He came up with the 'plan' to mass mason him. I have actually mason'd him and he's literally done NOTHING about it. We've sent each other 3 PMs basically saying 'sup'. Why the fuck would you make half the town mason you when you're literally not going to do a single thing about it? FOR WHAT? That's bullshit, it's the exact same reason as sandroba and you managed to word it differently. WHY WOULD YOU SOFT CLAIM MAD HATTER? ON THE FIRST NIGHT? Nah this is just scum pretending to leave bread crumbs. What the fuck nonsense is this. The only track record necessary in my eyes is this game. It scream out "HAS DONE NOTHING" Seriously? You get half the town to mason you then you make excuses about how you've been inactive? Nonononononono. "but youngminii you have the let him fly! just wait for him to spread his wings and soar gracefully over the shitfest that TL Mafiaa XLII has become!" This is not flying, this is madness. WHAT REASONING ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?????????????????????? ??????????????????? ?????????????????? You said this in the day. I don't even know why'd you say this, it's just stupid. He just used past experiences to gain cred even though he's done literally jackall for this game. I did this once too (it was Mafia XXX that was analysed by Ver, just in case you're curious). This is a big factor in the reason why I personally believe he's mafia, but I know most of you won't accept this as a point in my argument. Why are you playing this game. He makes half of town claim to him, does nothing, pulls this shit?? He's giving excuses for being inactive later. ALERT ALERT THIS IS SCUMMY. This just looks like he's taunting town to see how far he can get away with it. I'm sure it is too. Him being mafia can also explain his whole "DTs don't check anyone in the Zodiac list (including me)!!!" What do you have to say RoL? Because at this point you look FAR scummier than Kenpachi or even Hiro is. I am too lazy to actually remove all the content. The only thing I wish to respond to is this. On June 15 2011 06:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I have a better method of organizing blues that doesn't involve a potentially scum third party and is completely transparent to the town. X,Y,Z,1,2 are all inactive players. I take the player count (30) divide by 5. we get groups of 6. if you are a DT/Vig between 1-6 shoot/check X If you are a DT/Vig between 7-12 shoot/check Y If you are a DT/Vig between 13-18 shoot/check Z If you are a DT/Vig between 19-24 shoot/check 1 If you are a DT/Vig between 25-30 shoot/check 2 Minimal overlap, rapes lurkers, don't need some shitty plan that gets you killed, the best part of it is that anyone can make the list of who to check/vig and it can be carried out. I was serious, and this isn't retarded. Ask anyone who has any sense of literacy. It's a decent way to organize vigi's and detectives that minimizes overlap. I mean, I am sure it's not the MOST ideal, but sometimes its the best you can do. I would say it is without a doubt a better strategy then coordinating blues through one individual for several reasons. 1. You waste a night of checking on one guy and hope he isn't the godfather. With my strategy that night of checking is NOT wasted. 2. Vigi's CANNOT be safely inaugurated into this circle because we can't prove that the checked person isn't godfather, so they basically just have to blindly claim. With my strategy they are utilized the same exact way as DT's which retains their effectiveness with minimal risk. Point out any flaws with this and don't respond with something like "Wtf is this shit" this strategy is legitimate, and the risk of overlap decreases with the more targets you have. | ||
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On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote: Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis? You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself. To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm. | ||
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syllogism The first post I want to point out is the one I linked earlier. On June 15 2011 21:26 syllogism wrote: My vote will be on ilovejonn and will remain there unless a better suspect arises. It's a typical early day 1 case, but youngminii did outline valid points and his defence has so far been questionable. Further, I would like to outline this post again This post would make more sense if he had just encouraged everyone on the list to start posting, though perhaps that town qualifier was just there to pressure mafia. In addition, logically it doesn't make much sense as getting killed on night 0 sucks whether you happened to make a few posts or not and posting would only make it more likely. The entire bold portion is completely non committing. He is voting for someone while saying its "Just until a better suspect arises" which is bullshit, its what mafia do when they know they are lynching a town. They want to look like they weren't the ones gungho for the lynch at all, and therefore can't be held accountable. The only reason you wouldn't want to be held accountable in mafia is if you have something to hide, which I believe is evidenced by this post. On June 17 2011 07:08 syllogism wrote: I won't be around for the deadline, so I'll rather leave my vote on ILJ than the random lurker. If ILJ doesn't show up before the deadline, you should get more suspicious. If we do have to go with a lurker lynch, sticking with grassgiraffe currently makes most sense. The voting was so heavily stacked against ILJ, if you are going AFK the only logical thing to do would be to switch your vote to the possible last minute switch that people were considering (ILJ was OBVIOUSLY green) I mean this could just be poor logic on his part. I am not going to quote every single post of his, but these two posts do a good job of sampling 90% of his posts. On June 15 2011 03:17 syllogism wrote: The only plan the town needs is everyone contributing, relentless analysis and focus on the most suspicious players. As noted, this is a standard game, the mason mechanic aside, so there's no way to break the game. This is literally just repeating word for word something I said a few posts earlier. He is contributing NOTHING while posting some shit other people said. That combined with the earlier tell I would of been happy to Day 1 him easily. On June 16 2011 03:23 syllogism wrote: You just did what he accused of, again. This is the only thing he said to ILJ, it didn't even explain what he was referring to and I read that post and the one he is referring to which can be found here so hes just trying to contribute to everyone thinking ILJ is scummy, when he was not. You have to prove your points and argue against someone, making blanket statements while ILJ is already taking on half the players in arguments about why he is/isn't scummy and all that does is needlessly throw more weight onto ILJ's back. On June 17 2011 01:48 syllogism wrote: RebirthOfLeGenD stealth [placeholder] voted Kenpachi and I can't blame him; that is to say obviously assign some blame for stealth voting, but not the target. His contributions so far + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 05:59 Kenpachi wrote: hi im Kenpachi i slept all day yesterday so thats the reason why i was mia (surprise!) btw, im a townie On June 16 2011 10:13 Kenpachi wrote: There is nothing to talk about for me really.. I cant say much except that Sinani has been a total hypocrite. Other than that, i just cant put a finger on w/e is going on right now On June 16 2011 22:49 Kenpachi wrote: kk. Time to get my shit on. /game face ... ill get my shit on later. ##Vote:Sinani206 Seems to be the only one suspicious You can do better than this Meanwhile, we've about 9 hours until lynch and 11 people haven't voted yet In addition, 5 people haven't even posted today. GGQ has been around today at least, but hasn't graced this thread with his presence. At the pace things are going, we won't have much material to work on tomorrow unless we somehow hit the jackpot with the lynch or night actions. This is his only largish post really. It is once again just echoing other players. My conclusion here is that syllogism is scum. He has one major scum tell early on day 1, then proceeds to never actually say anything of substance while sheeping a bad lynch. | ||
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That's the same shit you could see with ILJ, no one was really fighting for him and he was getting sucker punched and sheeped the whole day. Any other candidates that were brought up were just spammed away. So apply that to this situation. We are about 24 hours into Day 2, there are 7 votes on me, and the only other vote not on me is the person I am voting for. Hint: I am not scum. Anyone going along with this is an idiot. I decided to wait a while before pointing this out just to emphasize just how much the thread has died. In the last 8 hours, there has been like 3 posts not by me. If you want an explanation for what I was doing, then ask specific questions and I will answer it, but honestly it will be a waste of time. | ||
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On June 19 2011 10:21 Mataza wrote: Huh, odd. At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you. But isn´t this behavior rather selfish? Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits. On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth. For you 2 questions:
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies? 1. I was bored and thought it would be funny and I wanted kenpachi dead. 2. I was going to help either way, I just hoped that would give some incentive to kill kenpachi. +1 who says I haven't been talking to my PM contacts? Youngminii is the only person I haven'tbeen actively talking to and that's because he won't get on skype. | ||
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On June 20 2011 04:28 Varpulis wrote: I'm still really unsure about syllogism. I've read through his posts 3 times, and I can't confidently say mafia or town. I'm leaving my vote on Hiro, at least for the time being. I suggest that we consolidate our votes to three possible lynches, to avoid letting scum hide behind outlier votes.
Is that list OK with people? Everybody should pick one, and vote for them, providing reasons as to why they are picking that person over the other two. Protest voting a lurker or somebody in no danger of being lynched is not going to accomplish anything. Seriously, why am I even on this list? | ||
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On June 20 2011 05:16 hiro protagonist wrote: Seriously, why is it when I vote for an inactive, its scummy, but when BC or node does it, they get no flack? No matter what I do, its scummy. RoL: what changed your mind about me? ##vote syllogism I agree that the vote should be between me and syllogism. Both act scummy, one of us is probably scum. should give us good info with the votes. I'm fine with the other being viged like BC said. I am tired of defending myself, vote for who you think is more scummy. peace. I never actually had an opinion about you. | ||
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On June 20 2011 06:07 syllogism wrote: With the way the voting is progressing and the justifications people are using for voting me over hiro, I'm comfortable voting Hiro, not that the current situation leaves me other alternatives. I do not, however, think I should be vigied if Hiro gets lynched tonight instead of me and does not flip red. It should be discussed at the very least and that should only be the course of action if it is determined a lynch would otherwise be wasted on me. If we lynch green we should vigi the other one. If we vigi red we probably shouldn't vigi the other. | ||
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On June 20 2011 06:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I never actually had an opinion about you. | ||
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On June 20 2011 08:21 Node wrote: I like how aidnai can say something like "if RoL was scum, someone would be there defending him" while defending him and convince people that he's innocent. Sorry, but I don't buy it, and I find it ludicrous that he's able to dodge a lynch like this. So, that's where my vote's going. No one defended me or said ANYTHING for the first 24 hours of the day. Stop making stupid arguments. I made sure to wait that long before starting to defend myself just so that when people made your exact counter argument, I can show that no one defended me for the first 24 hours where I was 6-7 votes up. I know you aren't stupid enough to actually believe what you are saying, so that leaves the next question of why are you saying this? If there is a mad hatter, I would without a doubt suggest you as a target. | ||
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Currently here is what I would like to do. I want ALL vigilantes to target hiro tonight. Vigilante hits get refunded if they are stacked with mafia or anything else, so we won't be wasting hits. I will also carefully think through how I would like to try to organize the remaining DT/Hatters and on what subjects to have them act. All ideas are welcome for this. my initial thoughts are Mataza, DeMorcerf, and VisceraEyes | ||
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On June 20 2011 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I think shooting me is a terrible idea. I gave analysis on hiro that supported my vote and I've given my thoughts on all relevant lynch subjects so far. What in the holy PISS makes you think I'm scum? I believe it was sheep and echo, but I'd have to check my notes. I will have to do a thorough analysis sometime tomorrow and figure out what to do. I don't like the situation we are in atm. | ||
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On June 20 2011 16:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Rebirth, honestly, I ISO'd hiro's posts and did that analysis before I read anyone else's cases...and I'm pretty sure that I'm one of the VERY first people to find hiro scummy. What's interesting is that you're encouraging checking/killing exclusively people on the RIGHT side of the effing lynch. Regardless of who's scummy among those votes, that fact alone is pretty scummy of you. What I find the most amazing is that it doesn't seem to be dispopular in the thread. If I wake up dead in the morning, I'm going to be VERY upset...... Saying the right side is assuming that hiro is actually red. I know what I wrote and how all my suspects were on hiro, that's why I said I wanted alternatives. All I did was post what my notes conclusions were, which I am second guessing now. | ||
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On June 21 2011 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh...this is a mess. Clearly I wasn't ready for this. How do you vets do it? I mean, I know at least half of you just lynch people at random and pick up the pieces halfway through, but some of you vets are REALLY good. We tend to just wing shit and look good when the pieces occasionally fall together properly. | ||
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On June 21 2011 13:45 Mataza wrote: Any other questions towards my actions? If not good, if yes mason me. I talked a lot and have been very cautious as to what I say when. I am not going to find a log on every single thing that was said or lead to what happened tonight. You may have reasons to mistrust my judgement, but not to mistrust me. As it stands, the following happened: As it happened I masoned Sandroba because of his plan. Much later, I asked him what his read on me was. He answered, but found the question weird. I proceed to tell him I´m blue. He fosses me and tells RoL my claim. I explain a bit further, starting to make sense, and he goes "Oh shit, I just did something stupid. I told RoL you´re blue" RoL answered him he actually thought I was blue. As I told Sandro I am indeed a Veteran everything was happy after that, since if RoL was scum i would be sure to get hit that night. Alas it happened so. Facts:
Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think scamp was masoned to RoL? Might misremember, but it´s not that important anway. If I only had gotten hit, I wouldn´t be this sure. But as Sandroba died too, and Sandroba and me make up the only 2 mafia hits this night, AFTER Sandroba slipped my blueness to RoL, I am convinced: Rebirth of Legend is scum
Discussion should obviously revolve around other suspects, but votes should land on RoL ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend I currently have 5 masons, well 4 now that sandroba is dead. I never thought you were blue and I don't even recall the conversation he referenced. I seriously just looked through our skype log and found nothing except him showing part of a PM you received and me saying how it was the same line I saw syllogism say. Your case is shit. My entire mason the shit out of me and lie about it plan was just to make sure I drew a medic night 0, or scared the mafia off from hitting me. I did actually pressure people who were masoned to me. I harassed sandroba and got a town read off of him, I set a trap for aidnai (if he were scum) and he passed it. Youngminii somehow is constantly failing to properly add me on skype so I can speak to him, and the other 2 people I am masoned with one can't get onto skype and the other I refuse to try to analyze due to the sheer difficulty of it. | ||
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On top of that, just because someone is confirmed blue doesn't mean he is right. His opinions are only as valid as his competency. As far as I see his entire case revolves around this one little ploy with sandroba which I honestly didn't even realize. Also, him saying I thought he was blue is a straight up lie. I pointed out how I thought he was red several times in this thread. | ||
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So right now I am left with two decisions. I can out of sheer spite just let you guys lynch me without contributing anything. The alternative is I give you the next lynch to work with and allow my death to not be in vain. I am going to try to be the bigger person here and choose route two. But first, I want to address my lynch and what I view as the only other explanation of this. The mafia stacked sandroba so that mataza could claim in thread and get me killed. The problem with this plan is that it is baller as fuck, and requires nuts of steal to do. Most mafia players aren't this reckless, despite what we would like to think. I don't even think I view this as the likely scenario, but nonetheless it is important to get out there. The other explanation is just luck, which statistically is a sub 1% chance assuming mataza is town and ignoring thread based priorities. So the only other thing I can do to try to prove my innocence is something I have always refused to do, which is post all my PM's. So that is out of the question. | ||
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To be honest, even if I tried fighting this lynch I wouldn't win. Even being green as I am, I can't mount a defense except to say that is not true. I honestly don't even know when/where sandroba told me you were blue. I seem to remember one of my other PM contacts telling me that you or sandroba were bread crumbing blue, but that is about it. When I flip green, do not vigi Mataza, I don't think the scenario I brought up earlier is likely, I just thought it was worth mentioning. When I die and flip green pretty much everyone in this thread is going to be surprised and I can't even blame them. I could ask for a DT check but there probably aren't any DT's left in the game, on top of which most people will assume I am the godfather anyway. To be honest, if I wanted to meta that I could. In previous games I generally refuse to be the godfather and decide who on my team will be it. Usually I will pick who I deem the second best player on my team as GF, since I can cover my tracks and argue well enough to where I don't need godfather protection and it would fuck with the town to think "If RoL wasn't the GF then who was?" So lastly, the only thing I am going to do which could be determined as a defense is do analysis. I am going to show you how youngminii is the most obvious scum target for either a vig hit or a lynch, and if you decide to kill him instead of me that's wonderful, and if you choose to lynch me instead then at least I leave you with an assured red for the next cycle. | ||
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Youngminii is guilty of all of the above. Day 1 he started the wagon on ILJ with shitty reasoning and later claimed it was to apply pressure, and that he didn't think ILJ was scummy, which is complete bullshit. Read his relentless assault against ILJ, a helpless townie who got hit by a train. He goes PBP then when ILJ starts trying to counter it he continues to bash him relentlessly. ILJ not being skilled enough to defend himself gets freighted. It's not entirely ILJ's fault though, day 1 is hard to defend yourself, especially for newer players. Day 2 he half ass pushes me, and as soon as I post back he claims its just to pressure me to start posting. Smart by him, since it took him off my radar temporarily, and because arguing with me would of been stupid to do. At that point the wagons on syllogism and hiro are already building, and youngminii goes AFK and lets us fuck up on our own. The thread inactivity had me feeling weird, but unluckily for me most of my scum suspects were on hiro, so I pushed through with the syllogism lynch thinking that was enough. But look at this from a mafia perspective. None of your members are under fire and the town is on its way to a bad lynch and utter confusion the next day? what are you to do as scum? Sit back and let them fuck themselves. Which is exactly what he did. Maybe he was busy with dreamhack LRing, but honestly he is still on TL.Net and you are telling me you were WAY too busy to even look at the mafia thread? Even between games? Bullshit. Day 3, he knows my lynch is a crapshoot and acts coy at first, then jumps on my bandwagon. But seriously, don't take my overview of this entire scenario for fact, I am going to go a step further and give you an analysis of youngminii, even if you bastards are going to kill me anyway. Day 1 On June 15 2011 14:33 youngminii wrote: aidnai I'm going to have to ask you to stop posting junk (as awesome as it may be) into this thread. This is not a public discussion thread for you to live report Ver's games. My first suspect for this game will be ilovejonn. He has 7 posts since game start, all of which are blanket posts that have no real content. Here are several of his posts: + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2011 11:54 ilovejonn wrote: I don't know... I think that requires a few (and by a few I mean a whole lot) more posts. Fluff On June 14 2011 12:15 ilovejonn wrote: @Varpulis I think I'll have to disagree with point number 2. I'd suggest waiting it out so that most people have posted and use their checks on who they think would be scum based on the posts made during night 0. I mean the whole point of this game IS to find scum, unless of course you find the posting behaviour of a "strong player" a bit suspicious, then yea go ahead and use your check on them. If not I heed people to wait until near the end of the night cycle to submit your actions. (unless of course you won't be there on time) Note the uncertainty in this post: "I think", "I'd suggest", "unless of course", "If not", "unless of course (again)". This is quite scummy behaviour, to me it looks like he's just trying to reassure everyone that you don't HAVE to follow his rules if you don't want to because he doesn't want to seem suspicious in any way whatsoever. Which a townie wouldn't do. Hell, not even a blue would do that. On June 14 2011 12:56 ilovejonn wrote: no This is in response to Sandroba's plan. While this is a lot more forward and not as uncertain as the previous post, he's still not contributing any content with this. If you look at this post as if ilovejonn was town, why would he bother making it? If you look at his mafia play (see below) this post kind of stands out pretty clearly. On June 14 2011 13:37 ilovejonn wrote: I'd also like to suggest that people on this list, if you're on towns side of course, to start posting, because you know, getting killed Night 0 sucks. Again with the "I'd also like to suggest". He also doesn't actually post anything, he just quoted the almighty Zodiac list and said "guys you should post" which is the entire point of the list in the first place. On June 14 2011 13:59 ilovejonn wrote: I think we need to move on. The plan is bad, no one should do what sandroba suggested, now we can all stop posting about it. "I think". Obvously the plan is bad, everyone is moving on, you want everyone to stop posting about it yet you're posting about it. There's nothing here, the plan's been heralded as terrible by most of the players. On June 15 2011 11:12 ilovejonn wrote: People who did not post N0: 10. sinani206 17. grassgiraffe 23. LandenC 24. Jacinto Putting 26. Lazorbear in as well for 1 very short post. What's the incentive for a townie posting this? Weeding out inactives. Has there been talk of an inactive lynch? No. Then why would you post this? To me this looks like ilovejonn is trying to quietly push for an (easy) inactive lynch by posting all the inactives. Notice that he doesn't just outright say "hey these guys are inactive, let's lynch one if he continues to lurk", he doesn't even accuse them of lurking. He literally only puts the list up and lets us make of it as we want. Which can only be one thing, an inactive lynch. This is so pure scum play. Content that's not real content, an agenda that's not explicitly stated and this goes well with his contentless posts that he made Night 0. He avoids the list by having posted pointless dribble. Now you might say "but youngminii, maybe he's just a bad town, you're being too harsh on him". Thankfully I went and looked at his game histories. I have two that I will share with you, one where he's a townie and one where he's scum. I'll only limit showing you the very early game posting habits of ilovejonn. + Show Spoiler [ilovejonn's town play] + Okay, for his town play I'll be referring to Mafia XXVIII. What I want you to see is how his posts are either (or a mixture of) helpful, loaded with content, fearless and very accusing. Here's a few of his first posts: On April 09 2011 08:12 ilovejonn wrote: All the newbs read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 please On April 11 2011 00:11 ilovejonn wrote: If I appear to be inactive, that's because I am really sick atm. I've read 10+ pages and right now GMarshal and Protactinium are top of my list for mayor. However as there is no voting thread yet for whatever reason :S, I'm going to stay in bed and rest until the thread is up and my voting is required. I also like Protact's posts a lot more than GM. Yes, GM is easy to read, but I agree with Protact that he isn't superbly great at analysis. Protact's each and every post was filled with so much content, meeting quality over quantity in my eyes, and gets to the point without beating around the bush. As a town leader (yes, I know his win-condition is not town) and an analyst, I would much more likely be in favor of Protact. I believe even by having him alive in the early game while he still feels like siding with town, he can create a much ideal environment for the town. At least his posts motivate me to play and post better. Also, sure if you think me being sick is an excuse, but I just wanted to get this out there in the case I really cannot post due to illness. I'm already trying my best to keep up with this thread by at least posting Day 1. On April 12 2011 04:02 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote ilovejonn Placeholder until I get back from work and read everything tonight. He's not even afraid to vote himself as a placeholder. That's how fearless he is as a townie, he doesn't give a second thought to "oh what if people think I'm abstaining my vote until later so I can voteswitch more easily". No, he just does it, because he has no reason to be scared. You are only scared if you are guilty. On April 12 2011 12:14 ilovejonn wrote: If my counting is correct, Dr. H is leading the mayor position with 13 votes and Pardoner landing onto GM with 12 votes. (By the time I am typing this up) There are people who have yet to vote, but with this many new players in the game I'm expecting 1 or 2 modkills. Somehow because GM attracts new players to vote for him it is very unusual and scummy. What I find more scummy is the fact that there are a ton of switch votes towards Dr. H that is making him lead in votes. Like Kavdragon said, Dr. H has said that he would not run for mayor, BUT because he doesn't trust anyone else as mayor other than himself (because that would avoid mafia influence) he ran for mayor. His whole mayor platform is just, "I'm willing to listen to town discussion but if I decide that the town decision doesn't sound right to me, I will lynch whoever I feel is scum. (Even when the majority of the town says the lynch target is not scum) Also, don't blame me if I lynched town because everyone makes mistakes." Yet, he is getting votes purely because of people having a town read on him. I want a townie as Mayor too, but definitely not Dr.H. Having said all this, I'm not saying that Dr. H is scum, I just do not feel comfortable with him being Mayor, especially with all the vote switches onto him. I'm inclined to believe there's at least 1 scum on the list of people that voted for him. These are a few people who decided to switch to him (not complete list of who voted for Dr. H) 13.kevconsim - GM > DocH 16.tnkted - tnkted > DocH > GM (changed vote while I was typing this) 18.urashimakt - Prot > DocH 27.DoctorHelvetica - GM > DocH (lol) 28.darmousseh - GM > DocH 33.redFF - Prot > DocH This list serves no purpose other than for me to keep track of who voted for what, but I decided to share it for those of you who do not do these types of record-keeping. My unwillingness to vote for Dr. H is based on the fact that there are many vote switches for him, as well as the general feelings I get from reading his posts. What I wanted was for GM to be Mayor and Protactinium as Pardoner. I'm not saying the Pardoner is not an important role. I have read about why having scum in this role is not beneficial as it gives reds a free no lynch cycle, but I am still willing to take the risk and offer Prot the position as I feel his abilities and skill can be very beneficial to town, even if he decides to turn against us during the late game. Think about it this way, we have him in the position, he uses his KP and DT checks depending on our decision or we lynch him. Except for his last one to complete his win condition of course. We don't have him in a position and he is forced to use his own judgement and KP that will most likely hit 1 or 2 townies (due to blacks are better off playing townie-like than-scum like). In conclusion, I will place my vote on Protactinium in hopes that he can get the Pardoner position. But the chances are probably very slim because there's less than an hour til Day ends. Just look at how much content this post has! This is great, this is analysis, this is deciding what to do and making a detailed post about what he feels and what he's going to do. All of those quotes were back to back, there was no mindless dribble between them, he didn't spam up the thread with one word posts, he made great posts that were of use to town. This is wildly different to how he's been playing this game. + Show Spoiler [ilovejonn's mafia play] + For his scum play I'll be referring to Mafia XXIX. Again, only the earlier posts (after the day post) as this is what pertains to the current context. On May 04 2011 12:36 ilovejonn wrote: blue font scared me there.... damn you. On May 04 2011 12:59 ilovejonn wrote: Apparently redtooth thinks Irish slipped cause he thought he knows 3-4 ppl playing in this game as ppl on his scum team. Just a misunderstood post imo. On May 04 2011 13:13 ilovejonn wrote: Yes guys.. don't edit. ever. Ahh, there's the ilovejonn we all recognise, all these posts are back to back, starting with his first post after the day post. Absolutely nothing, no content, ONE post faking content. I see a connection. On May 05 2011 04:26 ilovejonn wrote: Just finished reading the thread. I read really slow as I'm often thinking about other stuff when I read. First I'll give my opinion on the Irish13 discussion even though it has dropped. I like what redtooth did do get responses out of people but as he said himself, it became a null tell when almost everyone defended Irish. The post redtooth used to invoke responses from was a post that could have been misinterpreted by people and from seeing people defend Irish, it leads me to believe Irish isn't scum. I've only played 4-5 games on TL mafia, but I'd like to ask what does RSV/RQV stand for? Secondly, my gut feelings tell me that redtooth and chaoser are not scum based on their posts. They are actually quality posts, and even if they are scum, at least what they are posting benefits town for now. It is better to heed the advices in their posts than to bash them for it (for now). I don't want another Kavdragon incident in here again where we lynch someone because they are "too pro-town". Pretty silly. Last but not least, FOS Kurumi and Airblade. Kurumi for his posting behaviour. Why are you posting like that? Maybe English isn't your first language but what about the post with numbers? Are you trying to breadcrumb something? I'm just not understanding your posts. Airblade for saying "At least if we lynch him and he flips town, we won't have to attempt to read those type of posts anymore." That is extremely anti-town. Of course you would want to lynch someone who isn't scum, because then you'd waste a day AND lynched a townie, am I right? Wishy washy. No REAL fos, just a few uncertain questions asked. Also he posts this after other people have already basically raised the same issues. I'm aware ilovejonn hasn't made any posts like this in the current game but I point this out because it is textbook scum play and he's displaying the usual uncertainty and "oh no I'm guilty how do I cover it up as best I can?". On May 05 2011 04:34 ilovejonn wrote: I don't think you should kid about lynches. Our votes are very valuable and it's basically our only way of killing scum. "I don't think", note how he doesn't say this in his town play. On May 05 2011 07:03 ilovejonn wrote: I think this is true. I don't know why he would ask questions such as what was your mafia experience. Sure it generates discussion but is any of that really relevant to scum hunting? Unless this is another one of his plans to draw out responses.. Speaks for itself, not real content, similar to posts in current game. I'm going to end this here. Even though there are more posts I can quote, they're mostly of the same dribble and will only repeat what I've been trying to point out. You can check it out yourself. Verdict? I'm voting for ilovejonn, he's the best lynch candidate (and the first of the game I guess) I can see. I am well aware I'm under scrutiny because of that Zodiac list crap and that if I am wrong about this, I might just be creating an easy bandwagon for mafia to jump on. That said, if you are a townie make sure you don't just jump on the bandwagon until you've read the analysis and read his responses. I eagerly await your response, ilovejonn. This is where he starts his band wagon on ILJ. As pointed out later, a lot of this is stretched, and to be honest this is a fine thing to do just to get ILJ to start posting. But he goes further then that. On June 15 2011 15:04 youngminii wrote: Interesting post. I'm not really stretching a lot of points, your posts literally fall into my big box of scum. I am not meta-reading you, I am using meta to support my argument, there's a difference. Also, I'd have to ask, why would you play differently if you won both games, alive and well? That's easy, you're not. You can't just decide to switch off who you are. How did I take those words out of context? The context is you saying those things in this game and in the game you were mafia. A townie doesn't say these things, a townie says what's on his mind without hindrance. You don't want to waste time defending yourself, but you're not finding scum either. You've been decently active and haven't made a single post with content in it. This is a contradiction. Your response has been pretty poor so far, did you even read the part where I showed your scum play and your town play? You kind of just ignored it and said "I might be playing different because I want to", which isn't really a defense. There's no real discussion other than this so unless you're actually going to go find some scum, why don't you spend some time defending yourself? There's nothing else to do so far, why are you avoiding the pressure? There was pages of this bullshit, him going back and forth with ILJ just reiterating his shitty points and twisting ILJ's words. From ILJ's defense posts its pretty clear he was townie, he wasn't responding in a passive aggressive way and the wagon on him built too easily. But seriously, why is youngminii tunneling so hard here? It was off an analysis he later admits was just for pressure and wasn't even good. On June 17 2011 07:39 youngminii wrote: Yeah I kind of think ilj just tried to redirect focus onto the lurkers even though he said he'd scumhunt + he's lurking too. I kinda disagree with the grassgiraffe vote and I completely disagree with the hiro protagonist vote. Half the lynch is meant for you to pressure the guy and then judge his reaction, it's a little late for that. Switching vote to ilj. So let me get this straight. The goal of you relentlessly attacking ILJ was to just judge his reaction? Then why didn't you focus on other people after he gave more than adequate responses to your shitty analysis? Well hey, maybe we can say the pressure revealed to you he must of been mafia! On June 17 2011 08:25 youngminii wrote: nono it's essentially ilj vs grassgiraffe the likelihood of either of them being mafia is actually quite low, but yeah even if one of them was scum you could just vote for the other to 'hide' your vote, no need to shift your vote to someone completely random ...but then we have this! So you are pretty sure that neither of them are mafia? Cool, then why did you push ILJ so hard? Simple, because right now you are trying to avoid town backlash for tunneling a townie for half the day cycle until a sufficient band wagon had formed. Day 2 On June 18 2011 15:34 youngminii wrote: Everyone, do me a favour. Click that "All" button at the page numbers, type ctrl+F and look up rebirthoflegend. How the fuck is that not scummy. Here are some golden quotes. NOTE: He came up with the 'plan' to mass mason him. I have actually mason'd him and he's literally done NOTHING about it. We've sent each other 3 PMs basically saying 'sup'. Why the fuck would you make half the town mason you when you're literally not going to do a single thing about it? FOR WHAT? That's bullshit, it's the exact same reason as sandroba and you managed to word it differently. WHY WOULD YOU SOFT CLAIM MAD HATTER? ON THE FIRST NIGHT? Nah this is just scum pretending to leave bread crumbs. What the fuck nonsense is this. The only track record necessary in my eyes is this game. It scream out "HAS DONE NOTHING" Seriously? You get half the town to mason you then you make excuses about how you've been inactive? Nonononononono. "but youngminii you have the let him fly! just wait for him to spread his wings and soar gracefully over the shitfest that TL Mafiaa XLII has become!" This is not flying, this is madness. WHAT REASONING ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?????????????????????? ??????????????????? ?????????????????? You said this in the day. I don't even know why'd you say this, it's just stupid. He just used past experiences to gain cred even though he's done literally jackall for this game. I did this once too (it was Mafia XXX that was analysed by Ver, just in case you're curious). This is a big factor in the reason why I personally believe he's mafia, but I know most of you won't accept this as a point in my argument. Why are you playing this game. He makes half of town claim to him, does nothing, pulls this shit?? He's giving excuses for being inactive later. ALERT ALERT THIS IS SCUMMY. This just looks like he's taunting town to see how far he can get away with it. I'm sure it is too. Him being mafia can also explain his whole "DTs don't check anyone in the Zodiac list (including me)!!!" What do you have to say RoL? Because at this point you look FAR scummier than Kenpachi or even Hiro is. One of the first posts of day 2, you pressure me hard then claim it was a lawljoke to get me to post. This is seriously a condemning post when contrasted with his response to Mataza's accusation of me on D3. Just so no one misses the point, I am going to travel to the future for a moemnt. On June 22 2011 00:50 youngminii wrote: stop being silly lynching opz or rol is nothing more than a crapshoot get a lurker, the lurkers at this stage are just scummy as all hell landenc (and probably demorcerf) would have been modkilled for inactivity if they weren't mafia, the fact that they are keeps them coming back to make one single post obvious lynches So lynching me and opz is a crapshoot huh? You did an analysis of me not even a day ago to "pressure" me, but now there is a seriously good case against me and you respond that its a crapshoot? This is mafia knowing we are heading into a shit direction and trying to be the one voice of reason in this mess, except anyone with any sense of reasoning would lynch me off of mataza's post. So far Mr. youngminii has showcased quite a bit of bipolarity. One minute hes pushing the shit out of ILJ, the next he is saying how much of a shitfest the lynch was. The next day I am scum suspect #1, and the following day when someone else is pressuring me, all of a sudden I am a crapshoot? Bullshit. When I die you are coming with me. On June 20 2011 04:38 youngminii wrote: There's no need to explicitly state "these 3 people", it'll become a battle between them anyway. I know I posted a bunch of stuff on RoL but I never actually voted for him because it was just pressure, which seems to have made its point ^^ I'm voting for Hiro because, what can I say, he just seems really scummy to me. He's been accused by two people with separate analyses (which have made perfect sense by the way, I don't know why I didn't pay more attention to them earlier) and lol at his responses He just keeps going around being scum. I COULD give examples, but aidnai and sinani already have. My mind is undecided about Syllogism by the way. This is you hiding behind other peoples analysis on a lynch in which you are letting the town fuck itself up. You know my push on syllogism is going bad places, and you know the hiro lynch is going bad places? What to do as mafia? Post agreeing with someone, get your vote in, go afk and let the town fuck itself. Which is exactly what you did. On June 20 2011 16:43 youngminii wrote: The vote on Syllogism was an unfortunate case of tunneling by RoL (or maybe he's mafia OHNOES) and bandwagoning. If I were DT I would check RoL. If I were Vig I'd hit hiro. That is all. This is a classic scumtell the "Oh what bad luck for us!" bullshit. Thanks for accusing me of tunneling guy who pushed ILJ relentlessly Day 1. Proceeds to go AFK for rest of the night cycle. On June 21 2011 11:34 youngminii wrote: mm i'm betting my money on another explanation rol and node were going head to head quite a bit i know they could be doing the shift but the simpler explanation is usually the right one, and for now we should take that into consideration I don' recall ever arguing with node, especially since I barely posted except making fun of kenpachi in Day 1, and node was playing from a cell phone. Now the obvious explanation for this post is that you are distancing yourself from a lynch you know is going to be bad, even if the face of a solid and good case against me. On June 21 2011 11:42 youngminii wrote: This PM land stuff is tempting me to mason one of you. How secure if your PM circle? this is just funny, trying to not appear scum while asking if BC's PM circle is secure? Well it probably is unless he invites you into it rofl. On June 22 2011 00:50 youngminii wrote: stop being silly lynching opz or rol is nothing more than a crapshoot get a lurker, the lurkers at this stage are just scummy as all hell landenc (and probably demorcerf) would have been modkilled for inactivity if they weren't mafia, the fact that they are keeps them coming back to make one single post obvious lynches hey I completely agree with this post, but only because I know I am town, and I am pretty sure opz is also town. Once again staring in the face of a good argument, youngminii knowing I am not scum decides to try to build town credit by expressing his concerns. On June 22 2011 01:55 youngminii wrote: yeah okay there's quite a decent chance that they're all red the only reason i was hesitant on lynching rol was because he's masoned to so many people but yeah all the evidence points against him, if he ends up non-red though i will not be happy Wow, wasn't it hard to sway you here? (Read: It wasn't) and I have 2 masons alive at the moment, and saying my lynch was a crapshoot doesn't equate to you worrying about my mason count. BUT GUYS, IF WE FUCK THIS UP YOUNGMINII WONT BE HAPPY? Hint: He knows it's a fuckjob. On June 22 2011 04:03 youngminii wrote: You gave us an alternative lynch yesterday. Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, shame on us. You've had 3 days to 'dominate' and use your PM network. It seems as if your recurring theme this game is "fuck you I'll dominate this game later". Anyway if you don't end up scum then mataza will obviously have some explaining to do. Hey mataza, he's already trying to set you up for tomorrow's lynch, he knows this train is going south, and he wants to make sure everyone knows you were in the conductors seat as this train went off a cliff. In 3 posts, mere hours apart his conviction on me as gone from "THIS IS A CRAPSHOOT" to "FUCK ROL, but srsly, if hes town kill Mataza" Conclusion I would like it if you guys would lynch youngminii instead of me, but I figure that isn't going to happen. The case is VERY strong against youngminii. I would also like to stress this next point. When I flip green, do NOT kill Mataza, kill youngminii. So far on Day 3 all youngminii has done was set him up to be the one guy who stood against my lynch. So do what you guys want to do, like I said earlier, I will go silently to my death. If you think this analysis makes enough sense I would encourage you to vote youngminii in my place, then hell have me vigi'd tonight if you want. I really don't care. Anyway, I am heading to the gym for now, I will drop my vote on youngminii and whoever wants to follow suite feel free. But I stress that you must NOT hold Mataza accountable for my lynch, and instead look at youngminii. Youngminii's posting actually makes me even less suspicious of Mataza because he is clearly trying to set mataza up for tomorrows lynch. I imagine I can't have much more to say. Maybe when I get home I will try to do some more analysis, but for now this is all I have. GL ##Vote youngminii | ||
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On June 22 2011 06:25 VisceraEyes wrote: @RoL Is there any way your 'mafia tutorial' would NOT apply DIRECTLY to ~OpZ~ as well, if not more accurately than it applies to YM? Explain how it would apply to opz? I didn't see opz really push anyone early on, and I don't remember exactly what it was but something about opz struck me as very pro town. | ||
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On June 22 2011 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: I find it interesting how you're distorting the timeline around OpZ. 1st, OpZ pushes aidnai, based on spam. 2nd, OpZ claims indifference to lynching either aidnai, Sinani and ILJ 3rd, OpZ tunnels ILJ hard 4th, OpZ scum-switches to GG, an inactive lynch target that was already on the docket. GTFO scum. I didn't distort anything? I said I saw him push aidnai while ILJ was under fire. Tell me how I distorted any timeline? I didn't. | ||
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On June 22 2011 07:59 Kenpachi wrote: RoL is being extra obnoxious about not wanting to play this game.. seriously, i believe its some sort of psychology abuse. ##vote RebirthofLegend I know you haven't posted in like 2 game days, but if you look even just ONE page back you will see a giant analysis I just did. Except for the day 1 lul I had, I have posted actively since then. Please do not spread misinformation. | ||
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On June 22 2011 08:17 Kenpachi wrote: thanks for the analysis, much will be clear once youre gone, town or mafia. the problem with this is if I die then tomorrow we are 7-5 mafia, however if I am right on youngminii, which I am then we will be 9-4 which is much better. | ||
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On June 22 2011 09:25 youngminii wrote: wiggles i'm curious as to why you put so much effort into defending RoL then you make one line saying 'i agree with this guy' especially when: surely you'd have to have thought i was pretty townie if you wanted a medic to use their save on me i don't want this to be ignored, answer it when you're here When I lay out all the facts the way I did, I am sure I have quite a few people believing me, even if they think it's just a bus to save my own ass. | ||
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[6/18/2011 6:09:41 PM] Sandro Maculan: I'm gonna pasate his msg [6/18/2011 6:09:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: It´s not really an analysis in my opinion, I just posted to get discussion going again. I don´t feel to well with either lynch, it will probably be a witch hunt again, like always I seriously doubt Demorcerf being scum though. ILJ will hold my vote until a better case comes up. It´s a better case than Sina or Aidnai. As for lurkers, I´m no fan of lurker hunting. Some scum might be lurking, but it is beyond me how to find them normally. Too bad no one followed your plan, was looking forward to it. The bold portion was supposed to infer that the only reason Mataza would be interested in Sandroba's (shitty) plan is because Mataza himself was a DT. It was such a vague reference that I never even realized it until Mataza pointed it out a couple of hours ago. | ||
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The next scum is Fudgemunkey. To preface, a lot of this is going to be off the assumption that youngminii is mafia, which I think is a safe assumption judging by my analysis. On top of that I need to delve a bit farther into the youngminii situation. One of the biggest things I have tried to make him do is take a stance on someone who isn't a fucking lurker, which he has outright refused to do. Lynching a lurker right now is like lynching ILJ on Day 1. It's shitty, and it sucks, and we have almost as little to work with. The people youngminii suspects are Demorcerf and LandenC on a large part. He has given little to no analysis on them, only has said to lynch them. The biggest part here is that he briefly mentions sinani, but completely ignores Jacinto and Fudgemunkey as inactives. Jacinto has around 5-6 posts and fudgemunkey has around 8. Why ignore these two as inactive? Most likely because at least one of them is scum. On June 14 2011 16:15 FudgeMunkey wrote: Ah I see your logic but its not a very good plan if you just presume that anyone who doesn't mason you is automatically Mafia... I know that its probably gonna be another (real) day or two before I mason anyone... This is basically just a fluff post that tries to come off as friendly with his little smiley, while undermining my admittedly bad plan, the actual reasoning of my plan I will go into later. On June 14 2011 18:00 FudgeMunkey wrote: Also who says that the Mafia will kill you? They can easily just kill three people other than you. -_- That kinda wastes the point of everyone protecting you because they just kill three others... So this isn't the best strategy... While I admit my plan is bad, the way he is attacking it is silly. The point is that the medics protect me and the mafia are scared to hit me, and that if they really want to hit me it requires an absurd amount of KP to feel confident they wouldn't be wasting hits. The way he tries to point out the mafia benefits seems like it was written from a mafia standpoint while trying to appear townie. I feel like these points will appear weak, but I few them as supportive to the main arguments against fudgemunkey which will come next. On June 14 2011 16:00 FudgeMunkey wrote: Why are people masoning so quickly? I thought your supposed to make sure that the person you mason is actually trustworthy rather than just mason who ever has the most posts or the biggest... I mean who knows? You may be masoning Mafia straight away which is kinda a waste because they may not talk back to you... -_- Trying to instill paranoia with the masoning, once again I look at this as an additive to the main argument and necessary due to how little I have to work with. On June 15 2011 15:59 FudgeMunkey wrote: Yes, I agree with 'youngminii'... It seems as if the 'scum' never seem to support a strategy and instead find ways to make it look like its incorrect/false or just plain stupid... They hope to make it look like the person there arguing with is obviously Scum rather than townie or Blue. Once again another one of his posts that are based on the mafia perspective, and this time agreeing with youngminii who soon enough will be a confirmed scum. On June 17 2011 15:01 FudgeMunkey wrote: KP means Kill power! For every kill power the Mafia has they can kill each night... Mafia currently have 3 KP so they can kill 3 people per night... Hope that cleared it up. There is literally like 4-5 posts just on what the fuck KP stood for, I am not going to quote them all but its absolutely all filler/fluff with no content or purpose but to spam the thread and increase my blood pressure. On June 18 2011 16:38 FudgeMunkey wrote: To DeMorcef I understand your anger with me for not reading through the whole thread before posting, I have been busy with School work and so forth and I didn't want to get mod killed. I have read through the pages I have missed out on and I am pritty sure I'm up to date with the rest of you. On another note, I agree with Youngminii and VisceraEyes, RoL hasn't been putting the most useful information into this thread and the posts he ends up posting end up with him taunting the town as Youngminii stated. + Show Spoiler + I had a much busier day then I thought, and I ended up going to a party 2.5 hours away last night on an hours notice. But tomorrow I will try to be much more active until I head back into new jersey for a couple of days. Just some FYI, every day when I wake up and F5 this thread I am given a choice. I can A. Do some analysis and make sure you guys don't fuck up too bad, or B. Watch a marathon of 24. So far 24 has won the last 2 days. Maybe, just maybe if a vigi shoots Kenpachi tonight, 24 will lose the mental coin toss tomorrow. Just some advice. Obviously he'd rather do something else than be in this game and he is a Waste of Space... He is obviously taunting the town to see how long he will last and so far it seems to be working, NO ONE IS VOTING FOR HIM. Before I cast my vote into his/her basket I shall read more of the thread to make my decision final (just to make sure DeMorcef will be happy!) Another post just agreeing with youngminii, then posting how I contribute absolutely nothing to the thread. Coming from King of "What the fuck does KP stand for?" please don't be offended if I disregard what you said as beyond meaningless. On June 21 2011 14:51 FudgeMunkey wrote: To Varpulis I may be have been lurking for most of the game, but at least I'm reading through most the posts and at least half contributing! Unlike other lurkers who just watch, post something so they don't get mod killed and then go back into lurking mode... Bullshit. On June 20 2011 16:47 FudgeMunkey wrote: WOW! Three Townie dead... These two really shouldn't of been mod killed... Aidnai and Grassgiraffe although Grassgiraffe did a whole lot of nothing... So... guys what now? Nail in the coffin for me tbh. Pretending to be sad about town misfortune is one of the biggest bullshit scum tells ever. Get out of my game son. Conclusion Fudgemunkey is scum as fuck and I am going to vigi hit this little girl tonight. Oh btw? Time to claim so you retards can get off my shit. This means you Mataza, read are conversation, I was hinting at it several times, but you were too gungho on your no behavior analysis trap to actually do shit about it. I am a vigilante To explain what I have been doing this game, I will have to start from day 1. Night 3 is the most optimal night to hit since you will hopefully still be alive and ideally have the greatest ratio between chance of being alive and amount of information in the game currently. My antics on Day 1 (The mason circle, lying about amount of masons, calling on medic protection) all served the purpose of ensuring I didn't fucking die. and no, you won't find any posts of me hinting or bread crumbing my role, because I didn't do all that work to be worth a 2 KP snipe on me because some mafia like youngminii tried to do an analysis and realize he found a blue slip. It's why I am alive and other blues are dead. Why should you believe me? Because I am going to kill FudgeMunkey tonight and then you can all confirm me and stop acting like blind armless midgets. When the night phase comes and youngminii is dead I will have even more information for you hopefully, but we can wait until then. Lastly to Mataza. Do some fucking behavior analysis on me and stop relying on your flawed "Trap" that got sprung at the worst possible time. I kept telling you in PM's to look at me besides your little trap, and you outright didn't. Your entire case rests on what MANY people have pointed out is flawed and bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I am not getting scum vibes from you, I just wholeheartedly do not believe for a SECOND that you are arguing coherently, and that your continual influence in this town is going to lead us to inevitable defeat. So with that, lynch me and you can kiss your vigi shot goodnight which is the best chance of us turning this game back into our favor. My goal is by the end of Day 4 to have the mafia KP down to 1, because honestly without that we have WAY too many lurkers to work through with the mafia KP so high. So everyone time to realize why I am a veteran and Mataza is not. I lay down rape when it matters, while people like him will lead to your demise. And tell you what, if I don't have a hit during the night cycle, I will gladly die tomorrow in place of whatever scum I chose. Now lets pull our shit together and win this game. | ||
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On June 22 2011 15:06 youngminii wrote: i swear to god mataza if you are wrong about this look, basically if we lynch RoL today and he flips non-red, then (i dunno what the rest of town is thinking but i'm assuming they'll take RoL's analysis for truth) I'll be lynched tomorrow and we'll lose you can understand why people are apprehensive to listen to your 'plan' either way, i'll move my vote back to RoL since absolutely no one is looking to vote for landenc/demorcerf (WHICH IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING BY THE FUCKING WAY) If I see you try to push one more stupid lynch without analysis or purpose I will seriously fly out to australia and murder you with a kangaroo. | ||
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On June 22 2011 16:26 youngminii wrote: kenpachi's too i'm just saying, if you want to look for them they're there i'm sure you could weed out all the retarded parts of them Here let me take care of this for you! I will get rid of all the bad parts, unfortunately all we have left is this Youngminii wrote: The....Scum..... are..... mafia... Which unfortunately, doesn't prove very much. | ||
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On June 22 2011 16:38 Mataza wrote: This is wrong on sooo many levels. RoL is right now up for his second lynch, too. It is also the first case to involve a blue and it would also be the first lynch to off a red. Up to now only GREENS have been up to be lynched. I may be missing something, but our information from day 1 and day 2 analysis are worth nothing. You can´t tell me you hit Node through that knowledge. I believe you are good, but I don´t believe you are a magician. Seriously? Did you not see both of my fucking analysis? I use information from days 1 and 2. If you had the sense to ever fucking read anything instead of shouting about your plan the information is there to make correct decisions, you just have to open your eyes and be willing to try. When I say lynching a mafia today is vital to victory, I am not exaggerating, with the inactive presence in this game getting the town mafia numbers so close is sure defeat. Do some fucking analysis and maybe, just maybe you won't completely fuck this town. How is our position any better than day 2? Why Node´s death doesn´t matter to scum: If I was scum and I could ensure that no scum will be lynched for the rest of the game, I would totally do it. And that is why our situation is actually worse then day 2. Much worse. We magically caught a scum oh wondrous world. No analysis has been done on him. Sinani commited a vote to him. How the fuck did you "catch" Node? Stop sucking, there is a reason BC is considered one of the best players on this forum and its because we can take a bit of luck (Hiro not dying) and turn it into a rape. If you really want to see lightning strike a few more times, you kids better make sure I am alive come 10PM EST tomorrow. | ||
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On June 22 2011 17:35 youngminii wrote: there's no way in hell anyone should believe you a VIG goes out of his way to form a ridiculous mason plan on day 1 painting him as a giant target for scum? LOLNO Yeah, notice how I am alive and our blues aren't. Who is ridiculous now? Blues get caught by trying to play in the background and get sniped for doing stupid shit. When I am in a game I make sure to be so active, and such be such a threat to get a medic protection that I am absolutely not worth hitting, just because of the risk, and stacking early on isn't worth it. Kill me and watch the hops of victory for the town go with it. We need my kill in order to rip victory from the jaws of defeat. | ||
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On June 22 2011 17:38 youngminii wrote: HAHAHAHAHHA AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ....? You caught me, I am definitely not above using elaborate strategies to confuse mafia. wait.... look at how I avoided dying so far? There is a reason that while we are both considered vets, that I am on a whole different level and its because I can change up styles to do what needs to be done. Much like Jack Bauer.... | ||
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On June 22 2011 17:47 youngminii wrote: ok there's absolutely no way i'm letting you live today just wait until the game is over and you'll see that your tunneling of me was terrible if not horrific once we kill you maybe we'll FINALLY get to tackle the lurkers I told you on Skype, and I will tell you here. There is no fucking way I am going to throw this game by letting you live, and letting this uninformed fool by the name of Mataza use convaluted plans with bad results to end me. You will have to wade through a sea of logical arguments, and badass analysis while hell freezes over around me before I throw this game to sheer stupidity. You are just lucky that your side can somewhat control your lurkers, while my side has to figure out whether or not we should kill them. | ||
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On June 22 2011 11:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I will reveal the portion where I am breadcrumbed Mataza's role. I finally figured it out, with the help of Mataza. The bold portion was supposed to infer that the only reason Mataza would be interested in Sandroba's (shitty) plan is because Mataza himself was a DT. It was such a vague reference that I never even realized it until Mataza pointed it out a couple of hours ago. | ||
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Just because we lynch a townie does NOT mean that we get no information from the day. If you say that one more time I will murder you with a keyboard. Do you see both of my analysis? They both use previous days posting, and by flat out ignoring day 2 as having information you look like a jackass. Every time someone dies you gain information from it, its just how much information. The fact you wish to ignore ALL behavior analysis and focus solely on your plan is fucking retarded. I begged, I pleaded, I did everything I could on skype to show you I was town and at the end of the day all you could say was "But the trap!" Do you see the problem here? I am outputting analysis and trying to shut down scum, and because of how hard headed you had to act I was forced to fucking role claim in order to try to save my ass. I fucking HATE role claiming, but you need to realize what you are about to lose if you kill me. I knew it would look scummy, but I also knew it was information you needed to know preferably before its 9:50pm. Please though, put together an analysis on me, then your case will ACTUALLY have merit. Whenever I set a trap for someone in PM's I make sure there is a reason behind it. They have to look partially scummy to begin with and you have to have some reason to think I am scummy in order to set a trap, so by all means show us an analysis. I don't want to see one more fucking post about your shit trap that is going to lose the town the game if people actually follow you. Second of all about BC killing Node. Are you retarded? Seriously, I want to know. We called for a vigi on hiro to clear up that issue, but then an even better answer came around. Hiro was a mad hatter and could therefore just kill himself, and if he didn't then he was a liar and we lynch him and get a mafia later. Look what you wrote. Now after the day 2 lynch both RoL and BC were in favor that the survivor of the lynch should be shot for good measure. Then Hiro claimed his role. Suddenly after this roleclaim, BC found a third guy that was never up for shooting until this point, Node. This came practically out of thin air.BC literally pulled this out after Hiro claimed his role to him. If BC really was sure about Node, why didn´t he call for Hiro and Node to be shot? I want you all to grasp the gravity of this statement, and just how stupid it was. We called for vigi's on hiro, yes. We wanted to resolve that issue, as stated previously if vigi's stack they don't waste their hits so we could ensure hiro died. Even if BC thought Node was mafia at that time there is no reasonable way for him to ensure that both hits are resolved properly and both end up dead. On top of which from what I can tell BC was working with what he had. At that time we needed hiro to die to clear up suspects, and as you even stated earlier, at that point we had no real information to work with, so even if BC was suspicious of Node, why would he call for a vigi hit on him unless he was certain? Wasting a vigilante hit is retarded, especially if you aren't sure or it isn't necessary. In the case of Hiro, if he had not claimed a vig hit would indeed be necessary because it saves the town from wasting the next days lynch. In the case of node, I would imagine BC had suspicions of him, as even I did at some points in the thread and when given the option of Mad Hatter Hiro why would we waste his suicide? Might as well hit a scummy suspect, so BC capitalized and had him hit Node, which is totally reasonable. To counter your argument of BC sacrificing Node because, well why the fuck not? Look at reasoning. If BC played along had hiro bomb someone then just role blocked him, we would be using this fucking lynch to kill hiro right now, and would still be in a world of shit. From what I know, I am pretty sure his bomb was on a townie last night as well, so a role block and a lynch would actually put us in a 6-5 scenario for tomorrow, meaning a guaranteed game over for town barring absolute perfection. So regardless of your KP math, and your wonderful little MSPaint picture, your reasoning is just flat out fucking wrong. Your explanation of BC being godfather and pushing node is wrong. Your trap while ignoring any sort of actual behavior analysis is stupid, and your belief that there is no way to get analysis from town lynches is just flat out wrong. So tell me are you going to shape up or shut up? I really don't give a shit which one at this point, but constantly deflecting your redundant and meaningless words, arguments, and opinions is growing tiresome. And as a shout out to the remaining townies, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing. Do something, and we will win this. If this lynch happens the way I hope it will, I can almost assure victory for us. | ||
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I am going to try to take a nap and not sleep through the deadline, however I have been awake for around 28 hours right now and if I sleep for 8 hours I wouldn't be surprised. I urge anyone who is just getting on tonight and hasn't gotten a chance, please read pages 47-present and see who is making the most sense and make the most reasonable choice. | ||
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On June 23 2011 06:05 ~OpZ~ wrote: Further evidence backing up RoL's case against youngminii and fudgemonkey. Personally I would rather we just move all the votes to fudgemonkey, allow RoL to Vig YM at night (given he is actually a vig), and go from there. That seriously seems like the best course of action, because if YM isn't red, then it's down to BC and RoL. AND WHERE THE FUCK IS KANTBEUSEFULCHI?! YM flipping might clear up an issue that I really doubt fudgemunkeys death will. That is my issue here. I really can't say more about it. Oh and Mataza you want to know why BC is defending me? I asked him for help. I saw this railroad coming and you were half ignoring everything I said claiming it was predeath scum wifom. I pleaded my case to BC and asked him if he honestly thought I was scum based off behavior, he didn't and when you showed your little "bread crumb" that was why I knew you were blue, he knew this was stupid. Btw thanks for after I post about how you do stupid shit, you respond by leaking all my mason information in a desperate attempt to prove I lied. Hint: I didn't. | ||
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On June 23 2011 05:59 VisceraEyes wrote: I haven't ignored it. I'm trying to compartmentalize information received from RoL because I suspect him. Him claiming Vig on the block killed any credibility he might've garnered since he's actually started playing, at least for me. I have played enough games to know it would look like a desperate mafia ploy, but it's true and I figure it's more important that you know I am a vigilante before you go murdering away your hopes of winning this game. | ||
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On June 23 2011 06:22 Mataza wrote: If you count balance as evidence, I have my special evidence right here: Look, it´s almost the entire zodiac list. I don´t believe in coincidences. I don´t believe the results of last night just looked like my plan worked, but actually didn´t. I don´t believe that Bloodyc0bbler actually thinks it is the best explanation that I am scum with a very questionable plan. I don´t believe that everyone on the zodiac list has had very few comments for this and in unison think that youngminii is scum, when RoL should be under heavy suspicion again. I don´t believe that RoL is a vigilante. Fact is there has been no scum on the lynch block yet. Aside from RoL, all major suspects flipped innocent. RoL is the only person to get away alive from being nearly lynched. I don´t think this is a coincidence either. Wait, you realize you just were trying to use a "host would balance the game" argument, and then posred that me, wiggles, BC, and opz must be scum..? You do realize that would be IMBALANCED and UNLIKELY of a team. Look at these voting wagons, the only people standing up to my railroad and siding with me are veterans, you know why? They can see I am town. Those people voting against me and those refusing to commentate on this situation and just sheep fucking voted for me? Yeah, they are scum. You are being so damn headstrong for no reason man. | ||
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On June 23 2011 06:46 ~OpZ~ wrote: According to you, you can kill YM during the night phase. So it doesn't matter, if you're certain about both. I agree with it on YM. I believe I've said that before. In the thread or in a pm to you, i can't recall. It's not the same, trust me. It WILL clear up a discrepancy if he flips what I think he will flip. I didn't walk into this half heartedly. I know what I am doing and if you trust both of my analysis, and you trust my innocence then you need to follow through with the plan I have layed out. | ||
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The irony of this statement kills me. | ||
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Ignoring your balance argument, which I am not even going to bother to respond to. Prove I am mafia from an analysis. Don't just come out here and try to flip the fence sitters on my side, if you say I haven't put any effort in just look at the last day of posting. I dominate it and have put easily 16 of the last 24 hours of my time into this game. Look at my analysis and what I am contributing, and shut your mouth with contentless naysaying. Especially when few people have contributed quite as little as you have. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:35 GGQ wrote: So good of you to start playing as soon as your life is on the line, RoL. For reference, *RoL and BC are both scum* For everyone complaining that this would be imbalanced, hosts aren't always going to follow the same rule of splitting the two 'best' players onto opposite teams, or towns will just start metagaming to find scum. There were a lot of good players in this game, it was balanced even if those two are scum. Plus this fits everybody's belief that the three remaining mafia are most likely newbie lurkers. PLUS having two such skilled players would explain how the mafia managed to turn this game into a miry fog of crap so quickly. BC has been largely useless right from the start of the game. His zodiac list fit mafia goals perfectly as it discouraged medics from protecting skilled players so he could pick off whoever he felt was a threat. He sets himself up as a town leader throughout day 1, then fails to lead the town in any direction at all. He has made no analysis and pushed no lynches except for vaguely encouraging inactive lynches which he of all people should know is a terrible idea. He happily bussed the most inactive player on his team in a situation where it cost his team nothing. He follows bad lynches and suggests using a vigi shot on 'whoever doesn't get lynched', as if he just doesn't give a shit who is scum and who isn't. But BC is a problem for another time (or for a vigilante if there's an enterprising young gunman out there somewhere). Right now we need to finally kill fucking RoL, whom BC is working his ass off to save. I can't believe his 'GUYS BELIEVE ME IM BEING SO SINCERE RIGHT NOW' act is convincing so many people to switch their votes. His posts have nothing in them except some frankly uninspiring analysis from someone desperate to dodge the lynch again. He's been caught in how many lies now? He pushed a plan that he admits was bad on night one for the sole purpose of keeping himself alive (wtf, seriously?). He contributed little to nothing all game, he's been caught straight up in a trap by a virtually 100% cleared townie, and now he's claimed vigilante. Good one, RoL! And what happens when your target is still alive tomorrow and you claim roleblocked? What is the town supposed to do then? It's not that hard, guys. Lynch RoL, shoot BC. TY. I literally answered all of your BC bullshit in a previous post. On June 23 2011 00:28 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Mataza, there is a part of me that really really wants to hope you are red, just to explain your shitty reasoning, and your flat out wrong statements. Just because we lynch a townie does NOT mean that we get no information from the day. If you say that one more time I will murder you with a keyboard. Do you see both of my analysis? They both use previous days posting, and by flat out ignoring day 2 as having information you look like a jackass. Every time someone dies you gain information from it, its just how much information. The fact you wish to ignore ALL behavior analysis and focus solely on your plan is fucking retarded. I begged, I pleaded, I did everything I could on skype to show you I was town and at the end of the day all you could say was "But the trap!" Do you see the problem here? I am outputting analysis and trying to shut down scum, and because of how hard headed you had to act I was forced to fucking role claim in order to try to save my ass. I fucking HATE role claiming, but you need to realize what you are about to lose if you kill me. I knew it would look scummy, but I also knew it was information you needed to know preferably before its 9:50pm. Please though, put together an analysis on me, then your case will ACTUALLY have merit. Whenever I set a trap for someone in PM's I make sure there is a reason behind it. They have to look partially scummy to begin with and you have to have some reason to think I am scummy in order to set a trap, so by all means show us an analysis. I don't want to see one more fucking post about your shit trap that is going to lose the town the game if people actually follow you. Second of all about BC killing Node. Are you retarded? Seriously, I want to know. We called for a vigi on hiro to clear up that issue, but then an even better answer came around. Hiro was a mad hatter and could therefore just kill himself, and if he didn't then he was a liar and we lynch him and get a mafia later. Look what you wrote. I want you all to grasp the gravity of this statement, and just how stupid it was. We called for vigi's on hiro, yes. We wanted to resolve that issue, as stated previously if vigi's stack they don't waste their hits so we could ensure hiro died. Even if BC thought Node was mafia at that time there is no reasonable way for him to ensure that both hits are resolved properly and both end up dead. On top of which from what I can tell BC was working with what he had. At that time we needed hiro to die to clear up suspects, and as you even stated earlier, at that point we had no real information to work with, so even if BC was suspicious of Node, why would he call for a vigi hit on him unless he was certain? Wasting a vigilante hit is retarded, especially if you aren't sure or it isn't necessary. In the case of Hiro, if he had not claimed a vig hit would indeed be necessary because it saves the town from wasting the next days lynch. In the case of node, I would imagine BC had suspicions of him, as even I did at some points in the thread and when given the option of Mad Hatter Hiro why would we waste his suicide? Might as well hit a scummy suspect, so BC capitalized and had him hit Node, which is totally reasonable. To counter your argument of BC sacrificing Node because, well why the fuck not? Look at reasoning. If BC played along had hiro bomb someone then just role blocked him, we would be using this fucking lynch to kill hiro right now, and would still be in a world of shit. From what I know, I am pretty sure his bomb was on a townie last night as well, so a role block and a lynch would actually put us in a 6-5 scenario for tomorrow, meaning a guaranteed game over for town barring absolute perfection. So regardless of your KP math, and your wonderful little MSPaint picture, your reasoning is just flat out fucking wrong. Your explanation of BC being godfather and pushing node is wrong. Your trap while ignoring any sort of actual behavior analysis is stupid, and your belief that there is no way to get analysis from town lynches is just flat out wrong. So tell me are you going to shape up or shut up? I really don't give a shit which one at this point, but constantly deflecting your redundant and meaningless words, arguments, and opinions is growing tiresome. And as a shout out to the remaining townies, all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing. Do something, and we will win this. If this lynch happens the way I hope it will, I can almost assure victory for us. Now shut up. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote: RoL, you say 'Prove I'm Scum With Analysis'. But you have nothing to analyze except pushing a townie lynch and defending yourself. Trust me, I looked. Now you have a couple analyses, but those were done under the gun and could be viewed as bussing your teammates since you were actually in danger at the time. Stop telling people PISWA...I think it's PISWAter. Anything can be analyzed. Look at youngminii, he did barely anything. Look at fudgemunkey, he did barely anything. Yet I mounted convincing cases against them. Evidence is always there, its just a matter of if you can see it or not. I have played my fair share of mafia and know how to do an analysis. If you think I am honestly just pushing my team mates in front of a train then by all means accept the free kills and get to me later. You are basically admitting right now that you can't find anything I wrote that is really scummy, nothing that stands out, yet for some reason still want to believe I am scum. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:54 GGQ wrote: Sorry, I'm getting mixed messages from you. Did you want me to post more or did you want me to shut up? That post doesn't answer anything about what I said about BC, just about bussing Node. Good to see you defending him like he's defending you, though, that makes me feel just a little more secure. Thanks. And I shouldn't need to do an analysis on you to show that you are mafia if people are actually reading the thread. With this logic why should anyone ever do an analysis? It answers everything about BC, what else would you like to know? Why he stepped on defending me? Well if everyone read this thread, as you undoubtedly did then you would of seen the post where I explain that too. On June 23 2011 06:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: YM flipping might clear up an issue that I really doubt fudgemunkeys death will. That is my issue here. I really can't say more about it. Oh and Mataza you want to know why BC is defending me? I asked him for help. I saw this railroad coming and you were half ignoring everything I said claiming it was predeath scum wifom. I pleaded my case to BC and asked him if he honestly thought I was scum based off behavior, he didn't and when you showed your little "bread crumb" that was why I knew you were blue, he knew this was stupid. Btw thanks for after I post about how you do stupid shit, you respond by leaking all my mason information in a desperate attempt to prove I lied. Hint: I didn't. Please, you and your scum buddies keep bringing more and more bullshit in this thread to confuse just enough people to let you vote stack me at the very end. On that note, kenpachi unless you want to be solely responsible for another town defeat you will get back on the youngminii lynch. Right now as it is tied, I know I am going to get switched onto last minute and die. There is only an hour left in the day. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:55 GGQ wrote: I don't find your cases convincing at all, actually. A 'long' analysis is not the same as a 'convincing' analysis. Please, point out my problems. You are by FAR the first person to disagree with them outright. Also funny, first you think I am bussing my team mates, but now my analysis suck? Please stick to an argument. | ||
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On June 23 2011 09:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I don't buy the 'apathetic vet' bit for a second. You absolutely REFUSED to play with the rest of us until today...when your life was endangered. that's just wrong. I contributed day 1 for a while, then played like an asshole for a bit. Day 2 I played actively, and now we are on day 3 where I obviously am the most active player. Despite my apathy I have decided to make sure we win this game, and the challenge of making that happen is what is motivating me, hell I almost was just going to let you guys kill me without a fight but then I realized it would be more of a slap to the face if I drag you guys kicking and screaming to victory. | ||
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On June 23 2011 10:09 GGQ wrote: Stop talking about BC, it doesn't matter right now, theres only an hour left to the lynch. I'll get to him in the night phase. Want an analysis of your posts? 50% of them are oneliners with nothing in them. But hey, that makes you look better when you can discredit other people for having fewer posts. Way to spam. How about an analysis of you refusing to work with the town? Or an analysis of you claiming hatter and then claiming a red dt check on Kenpachi and then bitching the whole town out when we don't lynch him on your worthless word (way to back that one up with analysis btw, thanks for that!). But I guess that was all just another ploy to help you stay alive longer because you are just so fucking valuable amirite? I got to where you say I spam, then I just laughed. This is pathetic. I don't spam. | ||
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you know after all that, I am not even going to fight it anymore. | ||
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On June 23 2011 11:17 Ace wrote: what a dumb town lol I don't want to talk about it. | ||
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Can the mafia have 2 godfathers, 2 roleblockers, or one of each? And do the mafia choose who gets each role? | ||
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On June 23 2011 11:11 Mataza wrote: I AM CALLING THE SHOTS NOW GODDAMMIT. BC SCUM. ROL SCUM. If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. I am the blueest bro in town and I just lost my last mason, Youngminii. I knew he was green because scum tunneled him. They wouldn´t bus now, because it would drop their kp to 2. Assuming Youngminii was scum too along with RoL is also backwards ass logic. this is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I am not scum btw, but no one will believe that after last night, so why bother trying tomorrow? Do you know the amount of work it took me not to die yesterday? | ||
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I found this out roughly an hour before the night post if it makes you feel better. | ||
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In case you didn't notice, whichever lynch was followed on Day 3, if it went wrong whoever pushed it was going to be held accountable, and I can't see anyone changing their minds about that. Mataza is town and pushed me, meaning the town would push Mataza the next day, I pushed youngminii and now that he flipped town my head is on the block. I barely survived yesterday's lynch, and I once again misread voting patterns to support my lynch candidate. I partially blame the lurkers, and I partially blame my unwillingness to change targets, although to be honest, I didn't really have a choice. Once I chose someone to redirect votes onto there wasn't room or time for indecision. Look at how close the lynch was, if I tried to flip flop, or come up with other targets I can guarantee I would be dead right now. Youngminii played bad and I misread his play as being scummy, and from that I extrapolated an analysis that I had no choice but to stick with. In this sense I dug my own grave and I know I am not getting out of this, Mataza is too hard headed to ever change his course, and the mafia will happily get behind him for the next lynch assuming I am not killed by a hatter or a vig tonight. So what would you have me do to prove my innocence? | ||
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On June 24 2011 00:50 VisceraEyes wrote: You still giving up RoL? Or do you think maybe you might have a bullet to deliver? I am not a vig, it was all part of an elaborate plan that fell through when youngminii flipped town. | ||
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On June 24 2011 08:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Delightful. Lies make you look less town you know. You've told a lot. A LOT. Speaking contextually, obviously. yep, but if I was mafia, i wouldn't bother telling you any of this. | ||
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IM A JACK | ||
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Get on it. | ||
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On June 25 2011 05:20 sinani206 wrote: I comes after H, I think. I'm quite safe (last). DeMorcerf seems pretty scummy anyway, I guess. Contribute more. Now. I want to see you do an analysis on at least 3 other people. Seriously, its not hard. | ||
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This should give you the first 50 pages of posts. | ||
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On June 25 2011 08:06 Shraft wrote: Do it. I will write something tomorrow. Yeah, sorry tomorrow isn't fast enough. Every person who I will consider inactive is required to do an analysis on at least 4 of the remaining players besides me and Mataza. We have around 27 hours left until the next lynch, which is LYLO. We need time to discuss shit. So to all of you. Choose 4 people and give an analysis on them. The following list must all give an analysis, and can be given an analysis on. Mr. Wiggles - you haven't contributed shit. Godfather candidate much? sinani206 - you played enough games to know you need more than 2 posts per cycle. Get to work. Shraft - You have started posting more, but actually contribute. GGQ - Do something productive. DeMorcerf - You haven't done anything all game except avoid a mod kill. Do something productive to salvage this mess. FudgeMunkey - Your contribution to my accusation consisted of voting for me. Please do something productive, like now. LandenC - Do something productive Jacinto - you have less than 10 posts and reak of lurking scum. Do something productive or Mataza will push your death. | ||
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On June 25 2011 08:16 Shraft wrote: I don't have time nor do I feel like writing up a large post at 1 AM when I have a friend over. Deal with it. It doesn't have to be large, to analyze even 2 of the mentioned people would only take about 10-15 minutes of your time. | ||
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On June 25 2011 09:02 Shraft wrote: Jacinto and Demorcerf are probably mafia. I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow I expect some analysis to back up those opinions. | ||
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On June 25 2011 11:13 GGQ wrote: Oh please, when did you get the right to talk like this in this game? When you put on a flurry of activity just before you were lynched? Twice? Give me a break. I approve of the initiative to make lurkers talk, but it's lylo and we can't fuck around with our votes. Please tell me we're going to lynch RoL at the end of the day. I have been active almost every single day. What have you done? Now all you are trying to do is push 2 townies. I firmly believe fudge is town, and I think you are just trying to make sure we lose here. | ||
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On June 26 2011 09:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: Keep the Potter references coming. You can be madeye. | ||
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On June 26 2011 11:14 LandenC wrote: The Demorcerf modkill didn't help us at all. Gonna need some good blue actions to win this now. You guys mathematically lost already. Unless there is somehow 2 medics in this game | ||
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On June 26 2011 11:49 youngminii wrote: what happened behind the scenes afaik mataza and sandroba made a plan led to the most fail thing i've ever seen ALSO rol and bc made a plan rol was basically lying about fucking everything to get his way because he thought he was right in every step of his plan, which he devised WITH bc an example was bc claimed vig to rol and so when rol was under pressure he claimed vig and was going to use bc's vig powers to clear himself so that he could press his own agenda pm games always end up like this, godddddd lolol I am awesome. But on a serious note, that Mataza plan left me with no choice but to trust BC absolutely since he was the only person who could help get me out of the lynch. Until then I didn't share really any info with BC at all, even after he had node killed. The initial plan was that I was going to claim one of the mafia hits as my own, and have BC claim to have taken a hit. I needed a way to "confirm" myself so that you guys would cut the crap. Unfortunately, a lot of my plans hinged on YM flipping godfather. | ||
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On June 26 2011 12:02 Mataza wrote: Finally over at least. Wtf at no single vigilante. Also yes that 100% of regularly speaking was scum.... Thanks for lying, then lying and then lying a bit more RoL. Was awesome anyway. And Sandroba leaked the plan while drunk? Really? He didn't leak the plan while drunk, he told BC his scum suspects which was something like Jacinto, GGQ, and Wiggles. Then BC killed him before he could tell us or post it, and he hit you because he thought you were a medic. That coincided with your shitty plan to trap me, which led to MOAR win than BC had initially hoped. Not realizing there didn't NEED to be a roleblocker also fucked up me reading BC, since the obvious thing to do was RB Hiro Protagonist. I realized MUCH later that there could be 2 GF or 2 RB. | ||
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On June 26 2011 12:37 hiro protagonist wrote: haha, GG mafia. Man, BC is a sly dog in PM world. I had a 40% GF lead on him and when I PMed him, it was with half a mind to trap him somehow, while using my second PM with Mataza. After talking thou, I was 100% certain that BC was town, and never talked to anyone else LOL. Its weird that he bussed node, because I told him I wanted to put my bomb on Sandroba, which they killed that night anyway... I think it had to do with BC wanting town cred, Node being useless and Sandroba already suspecting Node and probably pressuring BC. | ||
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On June 27 2011 04:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I didn't really sheep his accusation though. I was just the first one to say your "trap" wasn't going to work and stuck my vote on YM cause there was an analysis, and because it was made by RoL. Those two points were important to me, because I knew RoL was going to flip green/blue, so by sticking my vote on the person he made an analysis on, I made myself look aligned with him. At least that's how I see it. Unfortunately, it was a lot of the lurkers who sheeped, and ended up voting with RoL, and actually killing YM. In the end, your plan didn't work, because RoL was green. :p I'd like to hear from Sandroba what he actually said to RoL too, because I'm interested if he actually said you were blue or not, haha. Also, as far as I remember, none of our hits N0 and N1 were blue snipes either. :p Somewhere in here the "Slip" is quoted. It's something about Mataza being interested in the sandroba PM plan which was supposed to infer he was blue. It was a PM that was quoted to me. I never even realized it was supposed to be a blue slip/tell. | ||
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On June 27 2011 11:46 Mataza wrote: Yes, it was coincidence. I overheard that Sandroba went ahead and told BC who he suspects, and it was along the lines of Wiggles/GGQ/one other scum. Afaik he did only share it with BC, and BC obviously couldn´t let him live after that. I was shot because.........I think as a medicsnipe. I did not know that Sandroba painted a huge target on his back to someone else and that´s why my trap didn´t work out. Your trap was completely flawed to begin with, and sandroba getting himself murdered just lucked into the worst scenario ever. YM, I didn't have a choice but to tunnel your lynch. Once I chose a scum on D3 It was push that person or die. I barely survived, and BC was the only person actually helping me, so I trusted him too much despite quite a few scummy things he did that caught my eye. | ||
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On June 27 2011 13:29 Ace wrote: Didn't you have some Vigilante plan, claim Vigi and didn't even follow that plan? The initial vigilante plan was that I was going to claim a mafia hit as my own and have BC confirm that it was indeed my vig target, while having BC claiming a hit. Confirming both of us for the next cycle. BC claimed vig to me though which simplified the plan which seemed way too convenient. I should of stopped trusting him at that point, but it honestly didn't matter since he knew about all the bullshit I had made up at that point, and most of what I had been thinking. | ||
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On June 27 2011 14:41 Incognito wrote: On a setup note, does anyone have any comments about the PM mechanic? Should it be modified/scrapped in the future? I liked it. I feel like it encourages PM use in a very good way. A town circle can't really form, and random greens don't feel left out of a circle since they can simply just mason someone and start talking. If I didn't think it would fuck with Real Time Mafia balance I would probably implement it. In future games I will probably use this form as opposed to straight up PM's. | ||
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