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On June 15 2011 05:20 sandroba wrote:
Well, I haven't thought about that, if I'm mafia I would probably be auto elected GF on the off chance the plan might go through, so it's more risky than I originally thought for you guys to trust it. Then again I know I'm not mafia, so if you think so aswel go ahead and proceed with the plan.
The plan does not exclude analysis, it only speeds up the process of clearing and confirming the subjects of analysis. Let's supose there is a list of suspicious people based on behaviour and voting paterns on a previous inocent lynch. I can organize DTs/Vigs to check supicious players on that list and hit the dubious lurkers more efficiently.
It does not stops or hinders any kind of discussion, and it's not like the opinion of the "circle" will be taken at face value either (because even the "circle" does not know each other). Even if a guy is confirmed does not mean he's right as we can tell from many previous games.
The plan I'm sugesting is merely an optimization tool for the efficiency of our blues. The plan itself is blue efficient because it's player list dependant and it's not "required" to work. If no DTs check me or if I die night 0 due to no medic protect we can move on with our lifes.
You guys can figure out if I'm mafia or not, hopefully. (clue: I'm not)
I have a better method of organizing blues that doesn't involve a potentially scum third party and is completely transparent to the town.
X,Y,Z,1,2 are all inactive players.
I take the player count (30) divide by 5. we get groups of 6.
if you are a DT/Vig between 1-6 shoot/check X
If you are a DT/Vig between 7-12 shoot/check Y
If you are a DT/Vig between 13-18 shoot/check Z
If you are a DT/Vig between 19-24 shoot/check 1
If you are a DT/Vig between 25-30 shoot/check 2
Minimal overlap, rapes lurkers, don't need some shitty plan that gets you killed, the best part of it is that anyone can make the list of who to check/vig and it can be carried out.
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The idea of this game is to try and determine who is scum through analyzing their behavior, not figuring out how to break the system using power-roles.
The power-roles are there as tools to be used as necessary, not crutches to base our entire game upon.
This message has been brought to you by a noob.
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RoL, if I recall correctly your own plan hinges on people trusting you and 1-2 Docs randomly protecting you just in case you get targeted.
You don´t plan to achieve anything, except that you are able to pressure scum to slip.
Your assumption is, that scum buy *themselves* into a blatant trap.
And then you hope scum, after you told everyone what exactly you intend to do, will still slip carelessly.
You being able to scumhunt via PM is a pure assumption. You are convinced it is so, but everyone else has just to hope you are actually that good.
I don´t think your plan is any better, espcially for the part where you tie up half the masoning ability of the whole town. Without any tangible benefit.
You might as well get manipulated by a persuasive scum.
There is no guarantee you won´t except for your promise to be Superman in PM-Land.
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On June 15 2011 06:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 04:14 Mataza wrote:
Yes, but what are we supposed to talk about?
If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about.
Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on.
Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1.
What exactly is the best alternative here?
I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill.
Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom.
"Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp."
Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia?
You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle.
So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously.
You can´t fake active night roles for long.
The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. This is wrong. You make way too many assumptions here, first of all, who cares if the mafia is found out? You act as if mafia are absolutely self serving, which they aren't. They are part of a team. If I was mafia and I played an intricate part in my teams victory, just because I die doesn't remove from what I have accomplished, and I still get the win. So yes, mafia might eventually get found out in a circle, but by then they will have gotten enough info to justify their deaths. And a godfather can easily fake a medic, vigilante, and veteran role so just excluding vet's from your circle doesn't do shit. A medic/vigilante/veteran role cannot guarantee confirm a player in one night, only a DT check can. If you spend 3 night cycles circle jerking yourself around with DT checks then mafia can just float in the inactives. As stated earlier, DT's should be checking inactives, active players WILL be outed by superior behavior analysis by good players. The circle plan sucked. My plan was better because it involved me doing something I am good at, and that others know I am good at, and doesn't involve having our blues suck each other off for 3 night cycles while trying to coordinate their collective stupidity.
While I will gladly admit your amazing mafia hunting skills....Do you think by the end of night 0 you can find all the mafia by having mafia PM you. I'd be glad to mason you, but I feel it'd be a waste of time when I see your name pop up dead tomorrow.....Should I mason with BC instead? I like BC. BC's nice. Lol.
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On June 15 2011 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea of this game is to try and determine who is scum through analyzing their behavior, not figuring out how to break the system using power-roles.
The power-roles are there as tools to be used as necessary, not crutches to base our entire game upon.
This message has been brought to you by a noob.
I think I said that 5 posts ago.
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On June 15 2011 07:18 Mataza wrote:
RoL, if I recall correctly your own plan hinges on people trusting you and 1-2 Docs randomly protecting you just in case you get targeted.
You don´t plan to achieve anything, except that you are able to pressure scum to slip.
Your assumption is, that scum buy *themselves* into a blatant trap.
And then you hope scum, after you told everyone what exactly you intend to do, will still slip carelessly.
You being able to scumhunt via PM is a pure assumption. You are convinced it is so, but everyone else has just to hope you are actually that good.
I don´t think your plan is any better, espcially for the part where you tie up half the masoning ability of the whole town. Without any tangible benefit.
You might as well get manipulated by a persuasive scum.
There is no guarantee you won´t except for your promise to be Superman in PM-Land.
All I need to say to this is, I am that good. My track record speaks for itself.
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On June 15 2011 07:19 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 06:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 15 2011 04:14 Mataza wrote:
Yes, but what are we supposed to talk about?
If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about.
Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on.
Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1.
What exactly is the best alternative here?
I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill.
Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom.
"Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp."
Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia?
You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle.
So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously.
You can´t fake active night roles for long.
The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. This is wrong. You make way too many assumptions here, first of all, who cares if the mafia is found out? You act as if mafia are absolutely self serving, which they aren't. They are part of a team. If I was mafia and I played an intricate part in my teams victory, just because I die doesn't remove from what I have accomplished, and I still get the win. So yes, mafia might eventually get found out in a circle, but by then they will have gotten enough info to justify their deaths. And a godfather can easily fake a medic, vigilante, and veteran role so just excluding vet's from your circle doesn't do shit. A medic/vigilante/veteran role cannot guarantee confirm a player in one night, only a DT check can. If you spend 3 night cycles circle jerking yourself around with DT checks then mafia can just float in the inactives. As stated earlier, DT's should be checking inactives, active players WILL be outed by superior behavior analysis by good players. The circle plan sucked. My plan was better because it involved me doing something I am good at, and that others know I am good at, and doesn't involve having our blues suck each other off for 3 night cycles while trying to coordinate their collective stupidity. While I will gladly admit your amazing mafia hunting skills....Do you think by the end of night 0 you can find all the mafia by having mafia PM you. I'd be glad to mason you, but I feel it'd be a waste of time when I see your name pop up dead tomorrow.....Should I mason with BC instead? I like BC. BC's nice. Lol.
medics know wattup. I better not die.
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On June 15 2011 07:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea of this game is to try and determine who is scum through analyzing their behavior, not figuring out how to break the system using power-roles.
The power-roles are there as tools to be used as necessary, not crutches to base our entire game upon.
This message has been brought to you by a noob. I think I said that 5 posts ago.
The difference is that you said it in the context that the only way to find them is to let YOU analyze their behavior and let YOU tell us who to kill.
I don't care how new you are or how bad you are at the game, that just SOUNDS like a bad idea.
Tell me I'm wrong.
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On June 15 2011 07:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2011 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea of this game is to try and determine who is scum through analyzing their behavior, not figuring out how to break the system using power-roles.
The power-roles are there as tools to be used as necessary, not crutches to base our entire game upon.
This message has been brought to you by a noob. I think I said that 5 posts ago.
On page 9: "Focus on behavioral analysis because there is no way to legitimately break the game set up that doesn't come with considerable risk. . . . .
Focus on behavioral analysis and putting pressure on people, that is how towns have won games in the past, and that's how we will win this game. Making a plan to abuse format is always secondary to behavioral analysis in any set up."
On June 15 2011 04:37 Mig wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Why is it a huge if that sandroba could be the GF? I assume mafia elects their GF n0, unless they did it before the game. So if they elect the GF tonight then they just propose the plan and make sandroba the GF anytime it looks like the plan will work. So if this were the case anytime sandroba is mafia we would reveal our entire blue list to them.
On June 07 2011 02:18 flamewheel wrote:
Out of the six of you, you may choose two to receive Mafia Power Roles (Godfather or Roleblocker). You may send in your choice[s] at any point in the game, but you will not have access to whatever power you chose until you do send in the notification.
At any point in the game... though I can't think of any logic to explain why they wouldn't do it before the first night ends. Has anyone seen a mafia that waited?
Concerning this zodiac plan, I don't think I really understand why we wouldn't want the insurance-agents (medics) to keep as many of the most experienced players as possible alive for the first day or two and tell them not to attempt to save anyone on that list? The more of those players we keep around, are we not more likely to have a greater number of well-designed posts with strong analysis? Those players are the best at putting pressure and stimulating discussion and analysis.
How do these plans work though if only a few people follow each of them?
sandroba's plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me, I question how much useful and trustworthy information we could gain from it, especially if the majority of the town seems to have already expressed a strong opinion that they will not follow/ignore it.
Rebirthoflegend's attempt to mass up mason-partners should allow him additional analysis of whoever does mason him, even if only half a dozen do so. If he is mafia though? I am wondering how efficient it will be if a large percentage of the town uses one of their two masons on the same, one person, couldn't it limit the ability of the town to disseminate information later on should that person die at some point or turn out to be scum? We shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? Everyone should be contributing in analysis, those who don't attempt to do so are suspicious, aren't they?
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@DeMorcerf
His plan involves as many people masoning him as possible and him finding scum through behavioral analysis in PMs.
For my part, I don't like the plan because A) we'd be placing a lot of trust in ONE person who, aside from coming up with a "foolproof way to find scum", has given no reason for anyone to trust him whatsoever, and B) because then half the towns mason power is entirely tied up in finding, what, 2 or 3 mafia? That's not an even trade later in the game, when our mason power becomes even more effective.
I realize that not all of what I said is original and may be incorrect, but I'm just trying to sort through all the nonsense in the thread right now about plans and PM circles. Forgive if I've overlooked some key aspect that makes this plan seem anything but anti-town.
@RoL
Someone at the beginning of PTP said 'If someone claims to be the goddamn batman, that should make you MORE suspicious, not less." I agree with this statement. Previous games aside, we know NOTHING about who or what you are in this game.
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On June 15 2011 04:39 Scamp wrote:
GGQ that is an example so you don't get auto-voted. But it's still pretty weak to me. You have one of the best analyzers (Ver) and only one other person setting a trap for someone who they found suspicious long before any PM-traps happened. I'd have to see exactly what happened but I highly doubt anything involving PMs was the true cause.
The PMs didn't singlehandedly win the game, no, but the ability for pro-town forces to discuss in private allowed them to trick the mafia into thinking they were safer than they were, drawing them into complacency and lazy posting.
I'm not even sure what the issue with my original post was. I'm just encouraging people to use every tool the game gives us rather than dismiss them as useless or unimportant.
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With the amount of opposition that sandroba's plan has received, it is effectively dead at this point. It should be dropped completely. Anyone who continue to discuss the merits or demerits of it after this point is suspicious to me.
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On June 15 2011 10:24 aidnai wrote:
It's my TL birthday :o !
your bday wish must be to not die on n0. jk Happy Birthday aidnai!
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
![[image loading]](http://coolvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/city-dawn.jpg)
TL Mafia XLII: Day 1 Start
I will redact in a story later. I got caught up debating my dad over the relative necessities of modern society.
chaos13 the Detective is now dead.
Pondo the Townie is now dead.
kitaman27 the Townie is now dead.
Day 1 begins now. You have 48 hours to vote. Remember that you need to both post and vote to maintain activity requirements.
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Good luck town
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People who did not post N0:
10. sinani206
17. grassgiraffe
23. LandenC
24. Jacinto
Putting 26. Lazorbear in as well for 1 very short post.
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And the first list.
This is ok, the zodiac list is also good, but please don´t start now with pro-town lists. I´m sick of those. Just saying this preemptively.
For the record, the first victim from the zodiac list......At least it´s now a little shorter?
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There's no reason to post N0. There's nothing to discuss and there's no reason why anyone should be posting at all. Telling people who to check, shoot, bomb, and kill just allows for WIFOM and confusion which help the mafia. Nothing good can come out of posting N0.
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That WAS my birthday wish ilj!
For other new-er blues in this game, i'm gonna bring this up since Chaos13 is dead already anyway: look at chaos13's posts. There's like 4-5 of them from N0, and all but maybe one are giving blues advice, asking for blue advice, or otherwise discussing blue roles. IMO, he was a pretty obvious snipe. Moral of the story: don't spend a lot of time talking about blues and nothing else. We can talk about this more post-game.
Scamp, the game GGQ is talking about is XXXVII. Ver = Ser Aspi. Although he and jackal did use PMs well, especially when it came to the endgame, the town kinda got lucky with a huge town circle that cleared LSB who otherwise would have been a great and easy mislynch for scum to push. So... yeah, like almost every game, it wasn't perfect play (or what we imagine is perfect) that won that game for town.
Back to this game: I can only assume that Pondo was an attempted blue snipe. Not sure about kita.
I find it odd that scum went for blue snipes over forum vets n0. I take this to mean that BC's zodiac was successful in deterring hits... Well, that's only good for us imo.
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EPT
