EPTOnce we have that day post, it'll change.
TL Mafia XLII - Page 12
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Impervious
Canada4211 Posts
Once we have that day post, it'll change. | ||
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Lazorbear
5 Posts
On June 14 2011 22:35 youngminii wrote: I don't even understand why it's suspicious to kill us, if I was scum I'd kill the vets straight away knowing they wouldn't be protected. I dunno that sounds like you're trying to give the scum a bit of advice..... | ||
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chaos13
Canada885 Posts
Mafia know who each other are and can communicate privately, so you won't find them discussing or planning things in the thread. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 14 2011 22:35 youngminii wrote: Quelling any form of discussion is terrible, if not scummy. The best way to analyse people is if said people are making discussion, it's very tough to analyse something that's not there. In any case, RoL's plan makes absolutely no sense to me. Who knows, maybe you'll find a scum or two, good luck with whatever you're trying to do. aidnai, you can have my spot on the list if you wish, I don't wish to be there at all. I agree with you in that BC shouldn't have told the medics not to save people on the list, leaving that opportunity open (and unspoken) gives scum wifom as to whether or not they should kill us. Instead, BC's taken this away and is hoping that they won't kill us in case they look suspicious(??). I don't even understand why it's suspicious to kill us, if I was scum I'd kill the vets straight away knowing they wouldn't be protected. Simple. Lets say that of the list, 2 of the 8 are red. If mafia begin firing into that list and say all 3 die. that is now 2 of 5. From past games experience, if a vet ever lives through most of a game while most of the others or all the others are dead, chances are your going to get vig hit or lynched just to make sure your not red. By increasing how hard town is looking at you the chances of getting caught super early is much higher. Town could potentially lose 3 vet players you are right, but mafia ones would be farther out in the spotlight to be caught. If medics protect into the list they are going to, but the extra attention is something no mafia would want this early into the game. Keep in mind I have said this before, this list is only usable for tonight and possibly night 1. Past that the information garnered will be enough for blues to intelligently check / med who has to be one would hope. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 14 2011 18:18 FudgeMunkey wrote: That makes sense, but will any of the medics actually use their saves on you or will they completely ignore you? The mere threat of me being protected should be enough. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I personally think that masoning people this early is risky, which is why I don´t understand it is being done again. Also, tell me if I´m still wrong on the Zodiac list thing, but I read the post where Ace first proposed one. If I remember correctly the whole use was so that
I was wrong on this list thing in the past, so maybe that´s why I am not a fan of this(In PTP it didn´t actually work out, so yeah) I advise one point though, that I think nobody ever mentions: When somebody makes you angry, don´t deduce that he must be mafia. I´ve seen it happen in every game I was in so far. Player A disagrees with Player B´s plan, calls him a shitty player or whatnot, and the reaction is almost always that Player B wants to lynch Player A, because "he is scum 100%". On a related matter, I think Sandroba´s plan is very simila to the Xelin plan in Mafia XXX, the game that Ver analysed. It can work and I will definitely go through with this. You see, to fuck with this plan, the scum have to risk a lot too and it doesn´t necessarily pay off. Sandroba needs to hold the circle on a need to know base. Not disclose all members to someone, only tell the Doc and Cop targets without disclosure if they´re in the circle or not. Theorizing why it would not work isn´t going to bring us anywhere. We have no alternate plan and we have no topic to discuss, so the thread will probably be filled with spam and wifom arguments instead. What else are we supposed to talk about? Doc targets, so scum can deduce who is a safe hit? Target lists are not useful, other than to see who is willing to discuss with minimal information available. That´s nothing else than guessing. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
In XXX, mafia did not play the way mafia needs to play in a PM game, and let the town collect into an unstoppable force of confirmed roles. Sandroba's plan can go wrong if
There are probably more scenarios that fuck up the plan, can't think of them right now. Same for RoL's mass mason request. I urge people to stop masoning him at least until the night is over. To those who already have: Don't take what he says as gospel. Right now it's better to be patient. I agree with BC, small cells will work better than all encompassing circles, because they're less likely to collapse and just cause confusion and mistrust. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I know where I am placing my bomb tonight, this is ridiculous. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Shraft
Sweden701 Posts
On June 14 2011 22:35 youngminii wrote: Quelling any form of discussion is terrible, if not scummy. The best way to analyse people is if said people are making discussion, it's very tough to analyse something that's not there. In any case, RoL's plan makes absolutely no sense to me. Who knows, maybe you'll find a scum or two, good luck with whatever you're trying to do. aidnai, you can have my spot on the list if you wish, I don't wish to be there at all. I agree with you in that BC shouldn't have told the medics not to save people on the list, leaving that opportunity open (and unspoken) gives scum wifom as to whether or not they should kill us. Instead, BC's taken this away and is hoping that they won't kill us in case they look suspicious(??). I don't even understand why it's suspicious to kill us, if I was scum I'd kill the vets straight away knowing they wouldn't be protected. Quelling discussion during N0 isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, there is nothing we can accomplish with discussion now that we can't do during D1. With this in mind, we should refrain from posting so that we don't accidentally give away any blue roles to the Mafia. Anyway, I had my graduation today and I am going out with some friends. I will be back to read the thread tomorrow evening. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about. Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on. Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1. What exactly is the best alternative here? I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill. Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom. "Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp." Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia? You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle. So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously. You can´t fake active night roles for long. The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
When is the GF elected? | ||
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Scamp
United States1086 Posts
It really seems like we can just let Mataza talk to himself for a while here. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
I think Night 0 start is kind of crazy. Some people are gonna be all sad face in the morning. I haven't got a decent feel for anyone yet. I'll keep you posted. Some people have been posting a lot though. And I'm laughing a little at my name being on that zodiac list. Oh yea!! I'm up there with the likes of Ver, BC and RoL. Srsly, Ver and RoL haven't went to your house to punch you for that comment BC? =D | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 15 2011 04:51 ~OpZ~ wrote: oh yeah....Let's go. I think Night 0 start is kind of crazy. Some people are gonna be all sad face in the morning. I haven't got a decent feel for anyone yet. I'll keep you posted. Some people have been posting a lot though. And I'm laughing a little at my name being on that zodiac list. Oh yea!! I'm up there with the likes of Ver, BC and RoL. Srsly, Ver and RoL haven't went to your house to punch you for that comment BC? =D Eh? Come on you've been playing for nearly as long if not as long as I have. Factor in your experience with the current player base I am well into the right for including you on it. Glad to see that your back in a game though ! | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
The plan does not exclude analysis, it only speeds up the process of clearing and confirming the subjects of analysis. Let's supose there is a list of suspicious people based on behaviour and voting paterns on a previous inocent lynch. I can organize DTs/Vigs to check supicious players on that list and hit the dubious lurkers more efficiently. It does not stops or hinders any kind of discussion, and it's not like the opinion of the "circle" will be taken at face value either (because even the "circle" does not know each other). Even if a guy is confirmed does not mean he's right as we can tell from many previous games. The plan I'm sugesting is merely an optimization tool for the efficiency of our blues. The plan itself is blue efficient because it's player list dependant and it's not "required" to work. If no DTs check me or if I die night 0 due to no medic protect we can move on with our lifes. You guys can figure out if I'm mafia or not, hopefully. (clue: I'm not) | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
-This plan is not like the mafia 30 plan, because I'm not trying to form a confirmed circle and I'm not tieing up multiple blue roles. Also there is no framer this game, so it's more likely to work. Also, it doesn't HAVE to work, this is just a good start. -It does not stop smaller town circles from forming since our blues will have another mason ability they can use. -It's not a circle per se, since only I will know about other people involved. For people discouraging discussion: I trust our blues not to out themselves. If you are blue I recomend you try to act exactly like you acted in a previous game you were town. Do not refrain from posting. Do not show hesitation or fear to commit to your opinions. Don't actvily try to hide your role and do not make it obvious (i.e.: comment on every other blue action except your own / talk only about your role). This should be kind of obvious, but we see every game blues slip like that. Just forget that you are blue and play like you have no role, except for night actions. So mafia starts with a lot of information, while our blues start with none. We can conclude from this point alone that discussion during night time help town way more than it helps mafia. Let's please keep the discussion going guys. Leaving our blues to act at random is not a good plan. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
i slept all day yesterday so thats the reason why i was mia (surprise!) btw, im a townie | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 15 2011 04:51 ~OpZ~ wrote: oh yeah....Let's go. I think Night 0 start is kind of crazy. Some people are gonna be all sad face in the morning. I haven't got a decent feel for anyone yet. I'll keep you posted. Some people have been posting a lot though. And I'm laughing a little at my name being on that zodiac list. Oh yea!! I'm up there with the likes of Ver, BC and RoL. Srsly, Ver and RoL haven't went to your house to punch you for that comment BC? =D Remember that time you vigi'd me when I was a veteran and combined with a mafia hit killed the only person to successfully lynch a mafia? I NEVER FORGET | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On June 15 2011 04:14 Mataza wrote: Yes, but what are we supposed to talk about? If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about. Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on. Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1. What exactly is the best alternative here? I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill. Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom. "Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp." Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia? You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle. So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously. You can´t fake active night roles for long. The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. This is wrong. You make way too many assumptions here, first of all, who cares if the mafia is found out? You act as if mafia are absolutely self serving, which they aren't. They are part of a team. If I was mafia and I played an intricate part in my teams victory, just because I die doesn't remove from what I have accomplished, and I still get the win. So yes, mafia might eventually get found out in a circle, but by then they will have gotten enough info to justify their deaths. And a godfather can easily fake a medic, vigilante, and veteran role so just excluding vet's from your circle doesn't do shit. A medic/vigilante/veteran role cannot guarantee confirm a player in one night, only a DT check can. If you spend 3 night cycles circle jerking yourself around with DT checks then mafia can just float in the inactives. As stated earlier, DT's should be checking inactives, active players WILL be outed by superior behavior analysis by good players. The circle plan sucked. My plan was better because it involved me doing something I am good at, and that others know I am good at, and doesn't involve having our blues suck each other off for 3 night cycles while trying to coordinate their collective stupidity. | ||
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