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On June 19 2011 06:31 Mig wrote:
GG guys. Valiant attempt GM, you almost managed to talk your way out of a confirmed vote check lol.
Don't quit palmar! You made a couple huge errors in shooting varp and chaos but you made the right decision when it really mattered and probably saved the town.
Oh right.
Sorry, all what I wrote above was just bullshit.
I just got slightly annoyed (but it also only confirmed my suspicions) that GM was going for "I'll make you feel bad" defense instead of "I am not scum" defense.
So I decided to do the same, sorry about that GM.
The only part I actually meant was the part where I said the people who ragequit were stupid. There's no excuse for that, I hope a ban awaits.
I'm sorry for all the failing. If you guys want, I can stick up a post with my thought process throughout the game. It's been a bumpy ride, but if anyone is interested in knowing why I made the decisions I did, then I can provide that.
In the meantime, I wasn't wrong on everything: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9662352
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Did I mention..
I AM CREDIT TO TEAM!
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On June 19 2011 06:38 GMarshal wrote:
Sorry I was so abrasive palmar, It was all an act. I was trying really hard to get someone to switch the vote off of me.
Again, really, really sorry if I offended you by calling you bad, you didn't play that terrible at all, I just desperately needed to make you doubt yourself.
If you are pissed at me feel free to lambast me in PM's I had no intention of making you feel bad :/
If you quit because of me I'll be sad, I'm sorry ;_;
don't worry about it, I was just counter-guilt-tripping you.
:D
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On June 19 2011 06:37 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +Mafia had the opportunity to lynch Palmar, Rean or Cthaza using Barundar's extra vote. Had they killed Cthaza, his ability would have killed Karshe as well, though they didn't know that. However, instead of getting Jackal's help they let him get lynched instead ultimately costing them the game. This was a pickle. We met on IRC, and I argued for killing Palmar with Jackal, and go into a shoot off end game, where we would rely on Jackal to win, but I would put our winning a chance to 50 % at best. I still think it was our best shot, but GM and DropBear however wanted to play on, so we went with majority decision + I was getting busy in RL so suited me fine to die  Setup wise I think you can never let mafia KP=town KP in a game as large as this from the beginning. Would need at least 2 night KP, possible three, depending on the strength of the mafia roles. We lost the game because town had twice our KP in the end game.
With GMarshal, Wiggles and bumatlarge you guys had plenty of KP. Unfortunately things panned out so that you never got to use it. Wiggles getting exposed via the alignment check was pure bad luck, bumatlarge getting exposed was my fault (sorry again ) and then GMarshal got roleblocked and ended wasted 2 days trying to kill Kurumi.
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United States22154 Posts
On June 19 2011 06:37 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +Mafia had the opportunity to lynch Palmar, Rean or Cthaza using Barundar's extra vote. Had they killed Cthaza, his ability would have killed Karshe as well, though they didn't know that. However, instead of getting Jackal's help they let him get lynched instead ultimately costing them the game. This was a pickle. We met on IRC, and I argued for killing Palmar with Jackal, and go into a shoot off end game, where we would rely on Jackal to win, but I would put our winning a chance to 50 % at best. I still think it was our best shot, but GM and DropBear however wanted to play on, so we went with majority decision + I was getting busy in RL so suited me fine to die Setup wise I think you can never let mafia KP=town KP in a game as large as this from the beginning. Would need at least 2 night KP, possible three, depending on the strength of the mafia roles. We lost the game because town had twice our KP in the end game.
Game was broken horribly in the town's favor, and I'm not just talking about the list checks. Ressurection roles give confirmed townies, which are absolutely hideous for the mafia. You realize that if BC had been ressed then there was no chance of the mafia winning, right? We'd have 0 kp effectively.
A vet vigi, who can become town confirmed, seriously?
And I managed to talk my way out of the lists by pure miracle, we *needed* a framer or godfather.
Overall this setup was hugely town favored, and essentially relied on DTs to win it. I don't think a single mafia was lynched due to analysis.
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On June 19 2011 06:42 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:37 Barundar wrote:Mafia had the opportunity to lynch Palmar, Rean or Cthaza using Barundar's extra vote. Had they killed Cthaza, his ability would have killed Karshe as well, though they didn't know that. However, instead of getting Jackal's help they let him get lynched instead ultimately costing them the game. This was a pickle. We met on IRC, and I argued for killing Palmar with Jackal, and go into a shoot off end game, where we would rely on Jackal to win, but I would put our winning a chance to 50 % at best. I still think it was our best shot, but GM and DropBear however wanted to play on, so we went with majority decision + I was getting busy in RL so suited me fine to die Setup wise I think you can never let mafia KP=town KP in a game as large as this from the beginning. Would need at least 2 night KP, possible three, depending on the strength of the mafia roles. We lost the game because town had twice our KP in the end game. Game was broken horribly in the town's favor, and I'm not just talking about the list checks. Ressurection roles give confirmed townies, which are absolutely hideous for the mafia. You realize that if BC had been ressed then there was no chance of the mafia winning, right? We'd have 0 kp effectively. A vet vigi, who can become town confirmed, seriously? And I managed to talk my way out of the lists by pure miracle, we *needed* a framer or godfather. Overall this setup was hugely town favored, and essentially relied on DTs to win it. I don't think a single mafia was lynched due to analysis.
Yeah, the biggest problem was no godfather or millers. Thats certainly something that I'll put in the next game 
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Still decon, you can't make it so town KP = mafia KP imo. Not in a game as big as this. No side should have to rely on roles.
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I'm just pissed that kurumi as a third party went and outed himself to try to get me lynched. I can understand being upset at your SK role, but you have to try to win. Mafia had enough going against them without having a rogue SK claiming to fuck them over.
I wasn't really happy about that. At all.
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On June 19 2011 06:44 Barundar wrote:
Still decon, you can't make it so town KP = mafia KP imo. Not in a game as big as this. No side should have to rely on roles.
Not really. 2 mislynches and town would have lost. Look how close mafia came to winning, with town lynching correct on 5/7 lynches. If mafia had 3KP or even 2KP this game could have been a mafia slaughter ending on day 4, especially if bum was able to hit 2-3 people with his bomb.
The problem with games like this is that its really difficult to balance, and with all the KP roles in the game I stand by my decision to give mafia only the 1 KP. Its the DT and listchecks that screwed you guys more than anything else.
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On June 19 2011 06:50 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm just pissed that kurumi as a third party went and outed himself to try to get me lynched. I can understand being upset at your SK role, but you have to try to win. Mafia had enough going against them without having a rogue SK claiming to fuck them over.
I wasn't really happy about that. At all.
Sorry 
From the very start I did not even think I could win with SK. Mostly because I'd get lynched for sake of lynching (I still fear that ). Then I had a stupid gut of me wanting to lynch You.
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On June 19 2011 06:52 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:44 Barundar wrote:
Still decon, you can't make it so town KP = mafia KP imo. Not in a game as big as this. No side should have to rely on roles. Not really. 2 mislynches and town would have lost. Look how close mafia came to winning, with town lynching correct on 5/7 lynches. If mafia had 3KP or even 2KP this game could have been a mafia slaughter ending on day 4, especially if bum was able to hit 2-3 people with his bomb. The problem with games like this is that its really difficult to balance, and with all the KP roles in the game I stand by my decision to give mafia only the 1 KP. Its the DT and listchecks that screwed you guys more than anything else.
Nope, it was unavoidable that town would get a number of confirmed innocents. Town was really, really bad this game, if we hadn't made them kill each others so happily they would have rolled us end game with a few confirmed.
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On June 19 2011 06:56 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 06:52 deconduo wrote:On June 19 2011 06:44 Barundar wrote:
Still decon, you can't make it so town KP = mafia KP imo. Not in a game as big as this. No side should have to rely on roles. Not really. 2 mislynches and town would have lost. Look how close mafia came to winning, with town lynching correct on 5/7 lynches. If mafia had 3KP or even 2KP this game could have been a mafia slaughter ending on day 4, especially if bum was able to hit 2-3 people with his bomb. The problem with games like this is that its really difficult to balance, and with all the KP roles in the game I stand by my decision to give mafia only the 1 KP. Its the DT and listchecks that screwed you guys more than anything else. Nope, it was unavoidable that town would get a number of confirmed innocents. Town was really, really bad this game, if we hadn't made them kill each others so happily they would have rolled us end game with a few confirmed.
We only got one?
I was actually thinking about shooting Rean over steff.
But yes, list checks are op and this game was town favored.
Anyway, one thing I really want to say. Great job everyone with creating the roles, they were almost all funny and interesting.
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United States22154 Posts
Also, people betraying their winconditon is unacceptable. You play to win, period. I know I pressed Kurimi for his alignment early on, but he should have either claimed town or claimed sk and later offed me. Claiming in the thread essentially sabotaged all chances of victory, and basically screwed the mafia over.
As far as KP go. We got insanely lucky that the town had next to no aim. Had they not shot themselves to peices/used their roles better, we would have been exterminated twice as fast. With the bomber man, Palmar, two death vigis and a lynch, the town had more than enough KP to absolutely rock the mafia, with no real chance for the scumteam to do anything.
Personally I feel like it would have been more interesting if multiple KP roles were banned, a mafia team with a medic, a role cop and a PM circle would have been really interesting, instead it seems like the mafia got handed the "traditional" mafia roles in the forms of kp and roleblockers.
Another issue I had were the too restricting post restrictions, for example Amber's role takes out 80% of the fun in the mafia game, which is chatting, analyzing etc. It was *far* too harsh of a post restriction, IMO. A better post restriction is one that makes you say things in different ways, e.g. always post in verse. (Its clear that post X amount of smilies was not a *great* idea on my part, I should have chosen something less easy to sidestep.)
Lastly, I though it was ironic I rolled mole again.
Although I do want to thank you for hosting Decon, it was great fun and I enjoyed myself, even if palmar did end up seeing through my deceptions. Anyway, despite all the "imbalance" it was a lot of fun and I had a great time. Thanks to decon and everyone who played.
Oh, yeah, do you guys want the mafia QT?
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Thanks Decon for hosting
Town was pretty bad, roles killed us more than anything. GG :p
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I almost called GMarshall the mole instead of stef.
What would you scum members had thought if I went that way?
Oh and GMarshall. Don't try to throw 3rd party into it at the end. I spit coffee all over my monitor when I read that.
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On June 19 2011 07:36 Cthsazsa wrote:
lololol.
I'm an idiot.
Just a little too trusting, which is why I was so happy to be able to get you in PM land.
Had I survived today you would have seen my bilayer deception, I was going to tell you I was town but was going to claim SK to survive and I was going to persuade you that Rean was a SK and make you vengeance target him.
You played well overall though ^_^
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Gg town. I was nervous thinking the town was going to let marshal slide.
Would play another ptp again thanks decon and bb for hosting.
Thanks for making me a mute palmer. It actually helped me stay alive 
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EPT
