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I will focus on this post,because I feel like it has the biggest potential to be analysed,I might check others too.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 17 2011 16:11 Barundar wrote:Seems like you have all forgotten about the copy cat. With our first lynch we have an excellent opportunity to let the town decide what role the copy cat gets. If we lynch a vanilla, like deconduo claims to be, we effectively let scum decide who they want the copy cat to be, an easy choice is to just shoot into the top and grap a free role. Now I have no idea if copy cat went to mafia this time, but it certainly did last time I played. For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day. Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1. We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as. We don't need new suspects with every post, sorry to use you as an example GM, but you post you will have a look at KillerSOS, and 10 minutes later you have a finished analysis dubbing him scum. Next on your list is Dreamflower. Do you expect to nail the whole freaking team half a day into day 1? Have a look at the voting thread. So far we have: + Show Spoiler [current votes] +Incognito: 3
Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness
deconduo: 3
kitaman27, Node, Eiii
chaoser: 2
bumatlarge, incognito
cheznu: 1
Fishball
GMarshal: 1
chaoser
Fishball: 1
kurumi
KillerSoS: 1
GMarshal
Mr.Wiggles: 1
Kavdragon
scamp: 1
deconduo 9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2. The three leading targets is incognito, deconduo and chaoser. Of the three I'm the least inclined to vote for deconduo for the reasons stated above. Chaoser has been dropping a bunch of one liners despite claiming to be busy. Yet the votes on incognito are the most convincing, I doubt both Ace and Foolishness would be mafia for balance purposes. I'd like to hear a better reasoning for incognitos votes than "I brought up the vote rigger combo idea, hence I must be town". Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat.
+ Show Spoiler +Seems like you have all forgotten about the copy cat. With our first lynch we have an excellent opportunity to let the town decide what role the copy cat gets. If we lynch a vanilla, like deconduo claims to be, we effectively let scum decide who they want the copy cat to be, an easy choice is to just shoot into the top and grap a free role.
Wait You want to lynch a townie who has the worst role? I don't get it. We should try to do our best to lynch the scum (very unlikely on Day 1,but we can still manage to) You're defending someone who claimed vanilla townie on Day1 which is SUSPICIOUS,why would You say "Guys I am really not blue/red(or whatever we name roles with power) I am just vanilla townie,don't kill me" and act weird too.
+ Show Spoiler +For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day.
"He has good role and he is 100% town,don't lynch him believe me!"
What? We should drop Scamp discussion if he does something weird because his role can be copied? You were discussing Red Copy Cat,if Scamp's red we shouldn't lynch him? What's exactly the logic behind this?
+ Show Spoiler +
Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1
We still have enough time to deal with that many suspects.
+ Show Spoiler +We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as.
Aha.. Wouldn't that mean checking the vote list on person lynched a good move? I mean,according to You Mafia is in charge of lynching.
+ Show Spoiler +
9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2.
Probably half of the "people with 1 vote" are a temporary votes. Isn't the point of this game is to convince someone to think You're right? As Scum You want to make Town think You're Town,as Town You want Your suspect to look Scum for other Townies so You can lynch that person. There are some people who are acting suspicious and are useless to town,am I supposed to leave them be? I NEED to point out that someone's doing something wrong. I agree in the most cases that spread-out votes are bad,but we have plenty of time and there's going to be a lot more posting,Day 1 lynches are hard and it has been mentioned already in this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat.
"I don't care if he is Red or Green or actually has a good role"
Really? We're going to sacrifice (probably townie,despite his crazy posting) just to make Copy Cat bad? What if Copy Cat is actually town? What if Chezinu is the Copy Cat? We can't be sure of anything right now and lynching just because of that has no sense,why we should drop the scummiest target for "The Least Attractive for Copy Cat"?
While Your logic is a bit flawed in my opinion (lynching bad role townies instead of scum) I don't think You're Scum,but You're a bit suspicious, Barundar
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Barundar
On May 17 2011 09:18 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 09:16 Kavdragon wrote:
My gut reaction is to call Decon's bluff and lynch him. I think that he's obviously implying that he's the village idiot, but I doubt that he actually is. More likely he's mafia just trying to avoid a day one lynch.
That being said, I think that the more reasonable course of action is to ignore him for now. If I was planning to pick VI I would hardly start off by saying 'I think I'll pick VI' I really am just a normal townie.
Also he said he "has feeling" that he is mole.
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@Kavdragon:
First person to die on the night is going to have his/her role copied (depends who sent pm about killing someone first) and Barundar assumes that Mafia will be those first ones.
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It is in the description of Copy Cat role
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Barundar,You were so against lynching a vanilla townie,now that one has been lynched,what are Your thoughts what is going to happen now?
I dislike the fact EU and US are taking turns,while the most of the discussion emerges I am peacefully sleeping/sitting in class. I think both Barundar and Kavdragon tried too hard Day1,though Kav was more aggressive. Incog on the other hand was really active too,though never overreacted,I don't think we could have the correct lynch on the Day1.
I am worried about Fishball,he does not care about me,noone cares about him too much,besides saying he's useless and overly passive. The lurkers/useless people are probably waiting for their time,there emerges a concern: when they're going to act? Is their act will be helping us in the lynching scum?
Chezinu wanted to play with us a bit,but nobody hopefully fell for that. He's one of those whose need start acting.
I'd leave those for now though and check people who were active and suspicious during the day.
Namely - deconduo,he claimed day1 (vanilla townie),grabbed a white flag with "I am useless" on it and started waving it,why?
Scamp - he claims Inventor,I'd prefer the alignment check,just to know what is going on..
Barundar and Incognito were the people on fire,I'd rather lean they're townies,more money on Barundar though,his play was similar to Kavdragon(trying to take initiative,overreacted a bit) I'd rather see him as Townie.
If Incognito is scum,he will slip off in the meantime,for now,as I said he is most likely another Townie
Who I'd bet is scum right now? Chaoser. I played with him in the Mafia XXXIX and as vet he claimed DT and got scum,it was a huge gambit,which paid off in some way (he got stacked the next night,probably to avoid doc covering him,or just maf knew there's no doc,though game is still underway) He is not as active,not as keen,not as aggressive as in the past game. Someone pointed out that he said he was going to be more active and never was. Unless I am convinced otherwise I will go after Chaoser during the day,while I disagree with shooting him(he could really be bother with rl),he might be checked. He will have enough fire under his feet to clear that we will may or not bring a case against him.
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Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
I wonder why there are so many claims right now,this is Day 2 and we can't cover everyone ( I highly doubt we've got 3 medics,and one of them is not weak/paranoid),we might actually have no docs,which would be grim. I suggest to play more safely now,we've got really good weapon in our hands now (Mr.Wiggles as King) I will address my Chaoser case right now,to see if there's change.
Same with the newest things (clue,Gmarshal's claim,Incognito case)
I think there was some discussion which leaned to not checking votes on lynched people,Gmarshall checked Kavdragon's wagon,but that's ok,we have a good enough intel now.
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified.
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On May 19 2011 23:32 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Does Kingmaker override the role the person had? Or is it just an addition?
What? Kingmaker is just like any other role. Do you mean will being made "King" override the role of a player? If that is the case, I'd say no. Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 23:03 Kurumi wrote:
Lurkeys should act soon in my opinion (Chezinu,Fishball,Eiii,Flower's post are not enough I think,deconduo,OriginalName) You're useless now and this does not make You scummy so fast,but at least suspicious and little anti-town.
I am dissapointed that Fishball did nothing after my accusation on him and prodding him to actually do something,while my vote did not do much I feel it was justified. Unless you didn't read any of my posts last night... never mind. And why would I even bother "responding" to your accusations? You can think whatever you like, but it's deemed pointless to me. But hey, at least I'm talking to you right now.
Yeah I meant person made King.
Well Your Bulletproof people list makes some sense and might be useful later. You started to making stances a bit,still Your posts are small. This is a slight improvement,though not "something"(like a big insight into someone) I think You're on the right track in my eyes to start appearing Town.
I don't fully understand Your dont-respond-to-attack technique,but looks like You know what You're doing,still I will keep my eye on that.
Now I should go back to more past things,not the recent.
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Chaoser is doing well,but I wonder if his "absence" wasn't just a card not to bring suspicion and evade a day 1 lynch(well,this does make him town,but rather a blue/scummy player).
He comes back with a good post,takes stance in couple of things (the rig/mdt combo,which he disagrees with,calls it "horrible")
He is after Incognito,though he does not talk about infinitystory's analysis,who has called Incognito scum. Does that mean Chaoser is not confident enough to push for lynch on him? He did not see it?Link
He shows some suspicion on GMarshal(about his vote change on Kav)
Got into Copy-cated Inventor discussion,where he said that the copy cat should claim and have a "test" from Town.
Looks at Ace's check on Radfield (pushing rig/mdt combo,not getting rigger while being quite high)
Chaoser addressed most of the boiling point things happening in our Town. He shows some suspicion upon Mr.Wiggles ("I am King and I could pretend that Politician/Journalist controlled me" idea)
He is slowly blending into our discussion,I think my scum accusation has less "power" now. He is still suspicious in my eyes,but he drove away a bit from the scum status,given that he started contributing and taking serious stances.
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"well,this does NOT make him town,but rather a blue(a good role)/scummy player"
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@Fishball
It's a Polish thing.
+ Show Spoiler +DAT Southpark reference right there
We just capitalize it when we write letters(though it is mostly absent I feel like it is good to show some respect to person You're talking/writing on the forums)
Don't get angry Ver,I will have another post with actual Mafia content in a while
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On May 20 2011 03:07 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 03:02 Ace wrote:On May 20 2011 02:28 Incognito wrote:See? Something turned up. Given how the last few pages turned out I'm pretty confident the recent posters are town. I wouldve expected maybe 1 player on the Kavdragon lynch to actually be mafia, but I guess there's two. At this point, my guess is on Chezinu and Caller. Feel free to lynch me. But I seriously doubt you'll be able to, once I do the exact opposite of what the mafia would want to do. ##Nuke ChezinuEveryone should agree that getting rid of Chezinu is a pro-town move. Especially now that there is a vote check on the Kavdragon lynch. Now seriously, what mafia would shoot into a vote list that has 2/6 red on it? Unless of course I am conspiring with GMarshal to screw over the town, this doesn't make any sense. But then again, conspiring with GMarshal doesn't make too much sense either if I'm announcing that option. Furthermore, it makes no sense for mafia to take America. Especially after Radfield proclaimed it an anti-town role. But if you think about it, its the most transparent role in the game. There's no way for me to hide from a misuse of the role, and its not like I can use it to kill blatant townspeople without significant backlash. Frankly put, America is a ridiculous option for mafia. There are way better KP roles for them to use. So feel free to pile your votes on me now. Nobody else type the nuke command. When Ver confirms that a nuke has been launched, you can all take your votes off me, ok? I'll be back later with some more thoughts. + Show Spoiler +Funny thing I saw a couple days ago in the news: "IMF chief's arrest stirs up anti-Americanism in France" Seems fitting, huh Radfield?  :/ Why are you always trying to force us with this "this role is a ridiculous option for Mafia" talk? I thought you and Radfield agreed that this was another role on the no-pick list? See. This is what I don't get about you two. Both of you are going against your Day 1 plans. What gives Incognito? With Radfield I have an idea about his..."pick" and it has nothing to do with whats going on this game. But now you're nuking when I could have sworn "nukes are bad" was a Scum move. So now if Chezinu flips town we waste a day on you, and if he flips Scum you just bussed a teammate and started a which hunt on 4 other innocents. You didn't even discuss anything, or even claim before nuking (if your even America). How is that pro-town? Uh...I never agreed with Radfield's plan. "Invisible posters" remember?
You listed me as invisible poster twice while I posted a bit,Your list was ALWAYS inaccurate.
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On May 21 2011 04:54 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 04:42 Ace wrote:On May 21 2011 04:32 Incognito wrote:
The reason why Ace should be killed is for political reasons. Yes, you try to kill scum. But when townies are obstructing reasonable discussion and blindly pushing their own agenda, you have to get rid of them simply to clear the atmosphere so you can start afresh and see the game through a new lens. In this game, I messed up in the beginning, and had to relook at the game all over again from a different perspective. You can't really force someone to do that, so when it seems like they will drive the town into the ground (yes, Ace holds enough sway in this town that people WILL listen to him), they need to be eliminated. A clear town with one less member is better than a confused and lost town with an extra member. This has nothing to do with Ace annoying me. If it did, I would've nuked Ace instead of Chezinu. Note how in Red Army Mafia (the bang bang one) I didn't eliminate Ace also even though he was being super obnoxious. He was pretty much doing the same thing he's doing now. Not sure if we should have killed him in retrospect, but in this game I'm feeling that Ace is off the right track.
wut? From Red Army Mafia On August 17 2009 09:22 Zato-1 wrote:On August 17 2009 08:14 coltrane wrote:
who killed me?
I told yoou since day 1, dont trust ace. What? Ace was one of the biggest contributors to the Town. As the field marshal, the most likely way he could die was by getting lynched, so he did his best to stay on the Town's good side, by contributing against the mafia. No one suspects him, and the fewer mafia there are the smaller the chances all his bodyguards get killed. He never did the town any harm. Town won that game with my help. You must be confused about what happened. No the other communist mafia. Where the thread title is in russian. Town lost that game, mostly because of chaos and people were shooting randomly and didn't know what to do. To me you were obviously town, but obnoxious nonetheless.
Could You stop derailing the thread with Your Ace&Incognito past games love? I really don't give a damn who played how in the past,just look at my past posts,what would I accomplish with posting like I did in Mafia XXXIX? You'd probably be choosing between me or Chezinu to nuke or I would have been lynched Day1.
The Incognito case is really WIFOM,he might be a townie taking a huge gambit,a bussing mafia or just a trigger happy guy.
I am up for any King-lynching lurkers and I don't care which one You'll pick,any will be fine (thought Eiii might be a bad idea because he is busy irl,so was chaoser who is trying to get into this game hardly enough)
I dislike how Incognito drives attention into him is he covering someone? A person who slipped out? Barundar? Someone totally else?
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On May 21 2011 05:57 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:54 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node. To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game. Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip). + Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
If town has been following the plan there will be other DT related checks on other people tonight. If someone finds mafia, of course we break from the list and kill them. Besides, GMarshal will die tonight.
Why? Are You saying that there are no protection roles? It is obvious to protect our Listcheck DT.
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I think our King's vote should be on KillerSOS or OriginalName,because Fishball+Chaoser started acting and Eiii has excuse similar to Chaoser(I think he will redeem himself soon,so I'd leave him for another day) I will leave my lynch vote on KillerSOS though,just to make expression who from Lurkeys I would like to see king lynched.
#Vote KillerSOS
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Incognito,thanks for writing up a nice chainsaw defence.
You're in the corner and You want to save Your life. You could be and egoistic townie "Hero" or just a scum who has been caught on a blunder. There's valid point that You miraculously evaded two lynches (I think both by 1 vote,maybe 2) still You're doing the same thing: searching for more suspects. I think You agreed at one point that brining more suspects than it is IS BAD. I didn't think so early Day 1 (We had A LOT of time) but now we are on Night 2 and the things WENT CRAZY.
Yes,finger pointing IS SUSPICIOUS and You try to make it "legitimate" by saying how it worked in past games,but no,YOU CAN'T RUN AROUND WITH FINGERS! It is obvious that someone will agree with You at one point,thus lynching some random person.
You try to classify Your actions as nulltells/pro-town while they're scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2011 13:30 Incognito wrote:List of invisible posters:GMarshal
Kitaman27
tnktedBum's post is on spot. Fortunately, I already mapped out some stuff. PYP Insane Game Plan The optimal picking strategy revolves around this cute little role: Show nested quote +Thief
You have the ability to steal the role of a specific player one time per game at night, meaning they lose their role and become vanilla, while you gain it. If you steal from a vanilla player, nothing happens to them and you gain nothing. You cannot steal the role of a traitor or mole. Neither you nor they may not use their role the cycle you steal from them. The following cycle after you steal you can use their role freely with the same limits taken from them. For example if the vote rigger already used his double lynch before you stole it, you will not be able to use it. This role obsoletes the PYP1 and PYP3 role picking strategies. The mere existence of the thief on the role list means that it would be seriously harmful for mafia to know where the good roles are. Of course, it’s a no brainer that the good roles are in the beginning part of the list. So my only advice is that if you’re in the beginning of the list, seriously consider picking a role such as NRA member or Meth Man to deter the mafia from hitting/stealing roles from the top of the list. Due to the fact that the mafia can coordinate numbers with each other while the town can’t, it is very likely that mafia will get a spot within the top 3. As shown by the past PYP games, mafia has gotten the first or second spot in all 3 games. Which means town will likely have to be on the defensive, as it is hard to guarantee that we can effectively deny mafia the thief role. The amount of potential KP in this game is huge. This means that there is a huge potential for the game to end quickly. The basic town strategy should be to avoid KP roles, while going heavy on investigative and defensive roles to try to prolong the game. Tier I RolesMafia 2 Detective + Vote Rigger Inventor Chuiu Jack Modern Detective Role Cop Bullet Bill PYP3 Veteran Doctor Bulletproof Mafia 2 Detective combined with the Vote Rigger is a combo that allows us to break up the town into chunks and analyze with greater ease. The formula is simple. The Vote Rigger rigs the Day 1 Vote into 4 roughly equal blocks with 7, 6, 6, and 5 voters each. All the lurkers/suspicious people are piled onto one list, and the Modern Detective uses his vote check to check one vote block each day, starting with the lurkers. Town then proceeds to analyze the split lists, allowing for more focused analyses. The rest of the investigative roles are used to sort through the lists, while the defensive roles prolong the game and squeeze the mafia. The Mafia will want these rolesKingmaker + Politician Thief Caller Godfather Roleblocker Janitor JailKeeper Puppeteer Hero PYP3 Veteran NRA Member CPR Doctor The best mafia combo pick is Kingmaker + Politician. This effectively gives mafia an unlimited anonymous unblockable dayvig power, capable of sniping off all the top town players. Caller Godfather is also an obvious mafia role. As anyone who’s read Caller’s Mafia V knows, Godfather recruiting high level townies with good roles is a town’s worst nightmare. Denying this role is iffy, as a mafia thief has plenty of time to try to find the role and steal it before it can actually be of use. Jailkeeper, roleblocker, and NRA member are powerful roles for the mafia that prevent investigations, and potentially save mafia from NKs. Hero and PYP 3 veteran cause town pain when mafia slip out of lynches and snipe off a townie. Lastly, puppeteer is surprisingly useful for a good mafia arguer, as it allows them to anonymously mislead town and cause tons of chaos in the thread. However, the most critical roles that we need to deny are the Thief, Politician, Jailkeeper, and Roleblocker. Due to the threat of a mafia thief, we can’t discuss precise strategy here, but townies should strongly consider picking one of these 4 roles. By the way KillerSOS is mafia. Also Node is mafia.
There's Your "I HAD NO PLAN LOL WAT U SMOKIN' BRO"
Your trickery needs to go to hell,Your actions did nothing but denied us from doing ANYTHING Day 2 besides thinking why Incognito would nuke someone out of blue,while we have King's lynch at disposal and plenty of time (and a pretty legit votecheck list) You knew and still know that Your time is running short,thus You try to spew chaos as much as You can,You contradict Yourself,never change attitude and LIE.
Lynch All Liars,remember?
Yes I am angry,because You think You're a Holy Hero who everyone should follow,while we caught some blood on Your cape. This is sweet how You try to derail us from the list Gmarshal posted.
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Also I feel sorry that I couldn't swap my vote from KillerSOS,his Tracker claim was believable and he gave up everything he had just for a possibility we don't lynch him.
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I might look into Ace's case,but the thing is You have been acting like a little rat Incognito,fleeing to every hole You saw,so I am not totally confident that this case will give anything good to us.
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On May 22 2011 01:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Radfield I'm glad we're thinking along the same lines. I believe your claim and the reasoning behind it. As for incog here's my thinking. I came into this game without having read the thread so I raced through it as fast as I could. I picked some easy reads (Radfield as town and Chez as scum) but I may have missed more subtle things that would have helped me make concrete calls on the more controversial players (Ace and Incog). As I am supposed to be dreamflower she was allowed to give me her top town and top scum. Her top town was Incog with a huge level of certainty. Her top scum was Ace with an equal level of certainty. Why am I saying this? Because with Incog's last post we started talking about parts of the game I only have a rough understanding of and we started talking about dreamflower. I'm going to have to reread the earlier parts but for now dreamflower's position will be mine. Keep in mind, dreamflower is actually pretty good, in one game she played she got killed night two as a mad hatter with bombs on two mafia, in another game she picked out two mafia and vigi'd one before she got killed. With this record I'm more than willing to support her suspcions.
You're claiming Mad Hatter?
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On May 22 2011 07:30 deconduo wrote:
If I die tonight, read my posts. Theres method to my madness, seriously.
And FOS kitaman, probably worth a lynch.
Why would You die? You claimed Vanilla Townie,wasn't so active and aren't tied to noone probably,I think we have other people we should worry about getting killed,like GMarshal.
Are You trying to say You're not vanilla after all?
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EPT
