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Protactinium (Mafia XXXVIII) - Page 5
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6784 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 11 2011 06:12 Lemonwalrus wrote: Ok, so I hate to be a drama queen, but I am done with tl mafia and that decision is based entirely on the way this situation was handled (and the fallout from it which has now carried into numerous threads/games). I didn't post in this thread because every argument I felt like making was made by someone else. The responses I have gotten on irc when attempting to discuss this were gems such as "Calm down" or "Shit happens"...as if that solves the problem. This subforum is run by an ingroup and whenever something goes against what they want they squash it and the majority of you circle-jerk about how awesome they are. I liked quite a few of you, but I'm done with mafia. I do want to clarify something though, the reason why I told you to calm down in IRC is because that is not the venue to discuss highly sensitive issues. That said its a real tragedy to see you and jackal leave, I can honestly say I enjoyed playing with you. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:46 Qatol wrote: I posted here only to improve visibility, not to discuss. If you have a problem with it, please discuss it there, not here. Also, we are not mods. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 11 2011 09:05 Forumite wrote: I posted here only to improve visibility, not to discuss. What was your goal in improving visibility? To complain about it? That should be a discussion. To call attention to it so other people will discuss it? This is a small community. If people aren't reading the ban list thread, they probably don't care how this forum is run and thus won't weigh in anyways. I'm just trying to point out that you re-opened a lot of wounds that have not entirely healed by posting that here, so I'm wondering what you were trying to accomplish by doing that. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On May 11 2011 07:35 GMarshal wrote: I do want to clarify something though, the reason why I told you to calm down in IRC is because that is not the venue to discuss highly sensitive issues. That said its a real tragedy to see you and jackal leave, I can honestly say I enjoyed playing with you. Lemon, Jackal, I've only played a couple of games with you guys but you are fun and it would be a tragedy to see you leave. Take a hiatus instead or something and come back to the forum in a bit to see how it's running? | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
So its pretty clear at this point that qatol has no desire to punish cheaters if they are his friends. Its been weeks now and I only see qatol trying to sweep this under the rug and hope everyone just forgets. So heres what im gonna do. Im gonna give qatol 24 hours to punish them for cheating in an unbiased and fair way that he would apply to any other player here caught cheating or im going to post this issue in the TL mod forum and see to it they can find some kind of resolution or at the very least let them be aware of the ineptitude of the situation going on in here. Its pretty obvious that people are not happy with how things are being handled here. And something needs to be done. On May 11 2011 08:01 chaoser wrote: Clearly there are deep-rooted problems that we need to look at Its unfortunate that the only people who can do something about it are the problem. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On May 11 2011 06:12 Lemonwalrus wrote: This subforum is run by an ingroup and whenever something goes against what they want they squash it and the majority of you circle-jerk about how awesome they are. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 26 2011 02:30 BrownBear wrote: Now that I've cooled down from last night, here's my final official opinion on this. Do I, personally, think that what Ver/flame/Incog did broke the rules of the game? No. Do I think they broke the spirit of the game? Yes, personally, although I understand our opinions differ on this. Do I think they can or should be punished for this? No. My recommendation is that we add to the rules, specifically stating "one person, one account". From now on, we can punish people for it, but we can't retroactively punish these three for something that was technically legal. I bear no ill will towards any of them, and I hope they don't towards me (after all, things were said, in anger, that probably shouldn't have been said). I think the best way to deal with it is to move on, and make sure the grey area is defined so something like this can't happen again. And RoL: That analogy really makes me sad. Please change it. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On May 12 2011 03:07 Coagulation wrote: I just wanted to point out that the whole time during the discussion of the situation with qatol he had assured me that there would be no need to punish incog because he was leaving tlmafia anway. Now here is incog back without missing a step as if nothing happened playing in games. So its pretty clear at this point that qatol has no desire to punish cheaters if they are his friends. Its been weeks now and I only see qatol trying to sweep this under the rug and hope everyone just forgets. So heres what im gonna do. Im gonna give qatol 24 hours to punish them for cheating in an unbiased and fair way that he would apply to any other player here caught cheating or im going to post this issue in the TL mod forum and see to it they can find some kind of resolution or at the very least let them be aware of the ineptitude of the situation going on in here. Its pretty obvious that people are not happy with how things are being handled here. And something needs to be done. Its unfortunate that the only people who can do something about it are the problem. I have not been given any authority on this forum by the TL staff. As a result, I don't feel comfortable punishing people unilaterally. Do not try to force me to do so. I won't. This has nothing to do with them being my friends or not. If you read the thread, the majority of people do not want them punished with more than a warning (which they all know about but I forgot to edit onto the ban list, but will do so right now - my apologies) and do not consider them cheaters. Please do not call them that. Also, when I told you that Incognito was leaving, I was under the impression that was true. Even though it was not true, it does not change anything (people voted for the same punishment for all 3 of them, it doesn't make any sense that this should change just because Incognito is not leaving the forum). Here are the tallies: + Show Spoiler [Warning or no punishment: 14] + Kavdragon Node Rean LSB deconduo Meapak_Ziphh (cohost) RebirthOfLegend chaoser bumatlarge AirbladeOrange BrownBear (host) Ace Infundibulum Foolishness (he didn't ask for a punishment here, but I confirmed he wanted a warning via IM) + Show Spoiler [Somewhere in between: 2] + Eiii (at least a warning and at most a 1 game ban) Mr. Wiggles (uncomfortable about asking for punishments but feels like something should be done) + Show Spoiler [Ban: 5] + DropBear Forumite GMarshal Jackal58 Coagulation BloodyC0bbler Note that even if the people I labeled as being in between are all for bans, the total comes out 14-7. If we go by the ban list voting procedure (I haven't gotten around to making a list of all of the people who can vote yet, but I can tell you now that the only people on that list who are voting ban are GMarshal and BC and at least RoL, LSB, Node, and Ace are also on that list) the ban votes are still outnumbered. If this is not satisfactory to you, feel free to go to the TL mods. Otherwise, just let this drop please. This is all I will do. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
Stop insulting people and spreading misinformation. Now. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
On May 12 2011 03:07 Coagulation wrote: I just wanted to point out that the whole time during the discussion of the situation with qatol he had assured me that there would be no need to punish incog because he was leaving tlmafia anway. Now here is incog back without missing a step as if nothing happened playing in games. So its pretty clear at this point that qatol has no desire to punish cheaters if they are his friends. Its been weeks now and I only see qatol trying to sweep this under the rug and hope everyone just forgets. So heres what im gonna do. Im gonna give qatol 24 hours to punish them for cheating in an unbiased and fair way that he would apply to any other player here caught cheating or im going to post this issue in the TL mod forum and see to it they can find some kind of resolution or at the very least let them be aware of the ineptitude of the situation going on in here. Its pretty obvious that people are not happy with how things are being handled here. And something needs to be done. I was hoping to avoid commenting on this further, but apparently this isn't over. Allow me two cents. You still have issues with it? Fine, then voice them. That's the purpose of this thread. When discussion tapers off and the majority of people are either not for bans or aren't willing to pursue the issue further, forgive them for thinking the issue might be dealt with. But doing something akin to holding the forum hostage is, for lack of a better term, fucking ridiculous, and for it I've lost any ounce of respect I might have had for you. What makes you think the TL mods will come up with a better solution? You call someone a cheater and get them banned, but you know as well as I do that the issue is a lot more complicated than that. Do you realize that without this "in-group" that you're decrying, this forum wouldn't exist? They've run the thing pretty damn well for quite awhile now, giving the users a place to easily host and play games, a standardized list of people they might not want to allow in your games, all sorts of tutorials and advice, and this is how you respond when something goes wrong? If you've got a problem with it, you've got the tools to do your own thing. You're welcome to host your own games, and you're welcome to ban whoever you damn well please from them. You're welcome to start your own ban list and hosting queue, and you're welcome to start a new procession of games that follow those regulations. You might find it one hell of a lot harder when you have to do everything on your own, but the point has never been to stop people from trying. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
More importantly, why are a small group of people who got outvoted in the official tally trying to hold the forum hostage by threatening to leave? LW, Jackal, Coag (i assume), you three are active players, and it would suck to see you go, but if you all are thinking you're going to change something by threatening to leave, you are sadly mistaken. Consider your bluff called. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 12 2011 04:50 BrownBear wrote: Wait, I thought this was dead and buried. Why is it coming back? More importantly, why are a small group of people who got outvoted in the official tally trying to hold the forum hostage by threatening to leave? LW, Jackal, Coag (i assume), you three are active players, and it would suck to see you go, but if you all are thinking you're going to change something by threatening to leave, you are sadly mistaken. Consider your bluff called. The issue was re-raised based on responses / actions of people in ver's thread to my knowledge. As someone who at the moment is staying as far the hell away from all this as possible I will merely say that based on a few actions in the last few days, wounds have been reopened for people. I am not one of these, I am merely posting observations I have seen. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Do you realize that without this "in-group" that you're decrying, this forum wouldn't exist? They've run the thing pretty damn well for quite awhile now, giving the users a place to easily host and play games, a standardized list of people they might not want to allow in your games, all sorts of tutorials and advice, and this is how you respond when something goes wrong? If you've got a problem with it, you've got the tools to do your own thing. You're welcome to host your own games, and you're welcome to ban whoever you damn well please from them. You're welcome to start your own ban list and hosting queue, and you're welcome to start a new procession of games that follow those regulations. You might find it one hell of a lot harder when you have to do everything on your own, but the point has never been to stop people from trying. This is pretty ridiculous, you should know how hard it would be to make your own new system and basically split the subforum into two, that's just not something that's possible. The point is that it's so hard that there's no use to even trying. It'd be much easier to look at the problems that DO exist and try to solve them. Yeh the "in-group" has run things pretty well for a while and contributed a lot but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to give criticism and feedback where it's due. I do think that Cog threatening to take this whole thing to the TL Mods is taking it too far but we should at least acknowledge that there are problems with the system, no matter how far it's brought us, and that we can always make it better. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I generally don't have a problem making a decision on an issue, but this one could of gone both ways and maybe I was just too biased towards not banning people, which I generally am. Although I do agree with Qatol in that whether or not incog left or stayed should have absolutely no bearing on this. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On May 12 2011 04:50 BrownBear wrote: Wait, I thought this was dead and buried. Why is it coming back? More importantly, why are a small group of people who got outvoted in the official tally trying to hold the forum hostage by threatening to leave? LW, Jackal, Coag (i assume), you three are active players, and it would suck to see you go, but if you all are thinking you're going to change something by threatening to leave, you are sadly mistaken. Consider your bluff called. I'm not holding anybody hostage. I'm sure you will all continue along just fine without me. I don't particularly care if the three amigos received any punishment or not. I was in favor of them receiving the same punishment Coag got for blowing up or vice versa. It was a non-issue really. Until this post: + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2011 04:15 Ver wrote: A couple of things to clarify. Coag and BC are not playing. Signups are closed for the most part. Several players (not going to say who, but just to be clear given the banlist discussions Qatol was not among them) only joined the game on the condition that it didn't have people who have a history of creating a bad environment in the thread due to bm etc. At the time this wasn't a big deal: Coag was banned still and the other offending parties either couldn't join, are permabanned, or weren't around. I simply avoided inviting certain people who I would have otherwise wanted to and that was that. Now that coag got unbanned before signups were closed and joined, a pretty awkward situation is created. If I include him, then several players don't play. If I ban him, he (rightfully) feels singled out. The same is the case with Bloodycobbler. Due to the clash they had that resulted in Qatol temporarily leaving the forum to get away, Qatol does not want to play with BC so it's an 'if he joins i don't play' situation. BC was banned at the time that Qatol joined (well before his signup in thread) so it was a clear 'sure no problem' kinda deal. Now that there's an initiative in the ban thread to get BC unbanned for this game, I have to put my foot down and say no, sorry. It sucks to be put in a situation where I have to essentially ban one friend no matter what but someone has to lose here it seems .This has nothing to do with the ban list, hosts always have the prerogative to ban who they choose (i,e Ace banning Bill Murray). In this case it's nothing I have personally against anyone but it's a situation where if party A joins party B/C/D/E etc quit. I assured the latter players and Qatol that their condition would be met (when circumstances were different and it didn't seem a big deal) so it would be unfair to go back on it now that circumstances have changed. I'm also going to close signups unless previously invited because Ace only was going to join the game if it was smaller and 24/25, depending on if FW plays or not, is already plenty. I recognize it sucks for you guys to be excluded like this so for my next game (probably going to be hosted late summer) you both have a guaranteed slot if you want in then. That's all I can offer. Please don't start a huge drama out of this, my decision isn't changing. Game starts Friday night. It's the same wishful thinking that created the original problem. Let's just hope it goes away. But it didn't work out that way did it? Ver should have sent a PM to Coag before the game started stating his intentions and why he felt that way. He should have also PMed Qatol and informed him before the game started. In effect Coag has been banned for 3 games due to the poor judgment and wishful thinking of others. Sleeper Cell, XXXIX and now PYP Insane. The last game all being played by the 3 amigos whose lack of judgment started this shitstorm and Qatol the guy that basically said gee shucks. Suck it up Coag. And then to post that bs in the PYP thread looked exactly like a clique of 8th grade bitches on pms. I'm not leaving due to a lack of punishment for Ver, Incognito and Flamewheel. I'm leaving because there is an obvious double standard at work. I truly enjoyed playing with most of you guys. I will remember most of you fondly. I sincerely hope though that you all step back and take a look at what has occurred over the last month or so and realize that you can't just sit back and hope things work out. Shit never works out. Be assertive and prevent shit like this from happening again. Good luck. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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