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On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote:
Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you.
In other words I'm going to bed.
Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE
btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight!
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On April 25 2011 11:11 Jackal58 wrote:
1/3??? So five scum? Or 6? Fuck dude.
How many KP do they have? I don't see that in the OP.
The number of scum is unknown exactly. Reading the godfather's ability carefully indicates that the scum have only one KP. That means that even with 5 mafia, it's going to a while before lylo.
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Oh hmmm. It's only 16 people, I thought it was 20. Nvm, it would be 2 days to mylo, or lylo if a vig shoots.
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Keep in mind that scum can kill scum as well.
I think something we should watch out for is people trying to manipulate or send messages to scum about how to act, as that will help us pick out the GF. As soon as a few scum start popping up, we should be able to draw connections between them and other players, and hopefully find a common point in the GF. The hard part will be when we kill the GF, because then a new one is selected. When that happens we have to be careful to observe who is changing their behavior towards other players unexpectedly, because this could be a sign of the new GF who suddenly has all the other agent names.
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I'm going to throw some thoughts out there.
I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die.....
I'm not sure how this is going to play out, but it's going to require a different play style than a conventional mafia game. I'm not sure who will benefit more from a shorter game, and who will benefit more from a longer game.
Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.
That all being said, I think we need to at least pressure people during the day. While it would suck to pressure a blue role, it's more likely that we'd pressure a red role, which could lead us to an early advantage through a good lynch. And anyone who is lurking will not be an asset to the town, so they're definitely good choices to pressure, if we don't have a lead on anyone else.
I know there was something else I thought of earlier, but I didn't write it down, and I didn't post it cause iGrok told us to stop posting until the game started -_-
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On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote:
Also, I'd be looking for any unusual word choices/phrases that a player could use to help identify themselves to/complete a clue they left the sleeper agents. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what the clues will really mean, but it could lead us to the cell leader, or a red faking as the cell leader to take pressure off the leader.
Great idea. With only 1 player knowing all of the identities it would take them a long time to individually reveal all the information to each Agent. So there may be codewords or themes to try and hint to Agents what alignment they are.
So if we ever see out of ordinary phrases and words between multiple players then we have a link.
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Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later):
DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.
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You do know posting a public breadcrumb defeats the purpose of proving you breadcrumbed later right?
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On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote:
I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die.....
In my experience, a short game means a mafia sweep with no losses while a longer game means at least a few mafia get killed. So I don't think the mafia wants the game to go on as long as possible at all.
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Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.
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On April 25 2011 12:27 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:55 Impervious wrote:
I think in this setup; the sleeper agents would want the game to go on as long as possible. This would allow more communication, as well as the ability to only kill non-agent positions (rather than mislynch). Once they've identified each other, this will quickly change, however.
Then again, the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that the intelligence analyst can identify the reds and then claim who they all are. The downside is that they need to claim and give the town their info before they die..... In my experience, a short game means a mafia sweep with no losses while a longer game means at least a few mafia get killed. So I don't think the mafia wants the game to go on as long as possible at all.
While I agree that traditional mafia games that are short are usually sweeps, it really helps when you know for sure who your allies are..... This isn't a normal mafia game.....
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Canada4998 Posts
Well, let me post my thoughts:
This setup must be extremelly unconfortable for mafia as they don't know the identities of each other, at least in the begining. We have to assume that at maximum 1 sleeper agent knows the identities of his buddy per day/night cycle. The mindset for scum this game, specially early on, is that they don't want to post strong analysis and strong opnions because 1)they might get their buddies lynched 2)they might attract a shot from his buddies at night, so doing this benefits the town even more in this setup. We should push extremelly hard for activity and FoS on anyone not willing to commit.
##Vote: Vain
You took the time to post here but haven't said anything relevant. You have done that on the previous game as well, so this is a null tell for me. But specially in this game this kind of behaviour (active lurking/contentless posts) is extremelly detrimental for town for the reasons I stated above. My vote goes to you unless you step up your game and play pro-town.
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On April 25 2011 12:29 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Of course scum-hunting is going to be the best way to find scum, but breadcrumbs are also a good way of finding out the cell leader. It looks like he can only send one PM to one of his people per morning/evening, which means that he's going to have to find a way to get information out to them otherwise, or else he'll have no way to contact more than a couple of them. We can't really rely on the connections between players in this game, so if someone starts acting weird after PM time, maybe they're scum. Also, when we kill the GF, we can go back and look at who he was trying to direct, and who he was paying special attention to, and how.
eh how? The point of bread crumbs is to prove something before it happens via hidden clues. So how in the world is that going to help us find the Cell Leader?
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Hi guys, last three games i either died or got lynched day 1, please don't, i'm town and I want to help town out.
Also FOS on anyone suggesting that we use vigilante right away as we have zero information right now.
That is all for now.
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On April 25 2011 11:41 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 11:38 Jackal58 wrote:
Well Gman. Since it appears that only you and I are playing and I know what I am huge fos on you.
In other words I'm going to bed. Hey, i'm still here too. Am going to bed now BECAUSE ITS 5 AM HERE btw, maby dt's should double check if they get that not info sufficient thingy if they have enough time and the player looks trusted. oh well, we'll see how it plays out. Goodnight!
Vain, I hope you aren't a dt because that is the most obvious blue tell ever in my opinion.
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Canada4998 Posts
I find these couple of posts you just made very suspicious darmousseh. First post you are very defensive and points out obvious things for a blue role. Then next post you quote the guy who did the exact same thing as you AND say it was an obvious blue tell?
Why do you want us to believe you are blue?
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I guess being defensive with no pressure should be looked at suspiciously. However, I don't think his post about vigilantes was a "blue tell". If you believe that he just dropped a blue tell then you're prior statement about him making you suspicious makes no sense.
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Canada4998 Posts
I believe he did it on purpose. Pointing out a blue tell and at the same time doing the same thing to clear him of suspicion.
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Canada4998 Posts
EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue.
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On April 25 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote:
EBWOP: I also agree that pointing out vigilantes is not a blue tell, but neither is the post he quoted, which is basically the same thing. If he thinks that what vain did is a blue tell he wouldn't do it if he was blue. He would only do it if he wants to appear to be blue.
I did it because it's the biggest blue tell in the world.
"Hey guys, let's dt check someone, don't mind me". It's just bad play, that's it. I have no FoS on him, i'm just saying that if he is dt, then we are screwed because mafia would probably pick that up faster than I did.
For this very reason, I recommend a dt checks vein because if he isn't the dt, then he's probably scum with the whole "don't mind me" phrase.
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EPT
