EPTi think you're red too so this is cute
TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 6
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
i think you're red too so this is cute | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:19 Pandain wrote: We don't have reason to care about Proctat's win condition except for the fact that by helping him, he will help us. It's a win-win situation if he gets elected as mayor. And are you really saying that the watcher is a "scum hunting" role. The only way he might be able to help is if he visits the person who dies. I think that helping to confirm two townies is by FAR a better use of a watcher. Furthormore we are talking about who should be mayor. Day 1 mafia hunting is going to often be wrong, and you out of all people should know that. The most important thing(considering its hardly been a day since its started) right now is saying who should be mayor, especially since he decides the lynch. What happened to the "oh let's not argue. I won't comment on your plan at all because its wrong." Its undeinable that having one less 3rd party is better for town. It's undeniable that its better to have less anti town people in the game. Broski are you really saying that coag and you are the duo or reason in this game? lol how is the watcher not a scumhunting role, the point of the watcher is that you visit someone who died that night and that's a pretty good power. using it to keep bodyguards alive to protect an assassin we have no reason to care about is utterly retarded if we elect protact this game will become about the assassins game. let him die, he's worthless, vote for the mayor you feel is most town-like and focus on drawing scum out/provoking them and knocking them down later. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
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On April 11 2011 05:26 chaoser wrote: Objection! ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vTMqM.jpg) Alternative GMarshal/Chaoser 2011! We'll win the game AND get your Chinese Princess Back! gmarshal is wishy washy and you supported protact i'm obviously the best choice also my behavior is clearly the most pro-town anyone can see this | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
are you scum redFF? that's the only reason you wouldn't think it's a good idea | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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my bad yeah vote protact/pandain for sure | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
This is the big tl;dr post where I explain all my thoughts I think I've done all the poking and prodding I can. We're in a sticky situation and we need to make the best of it. So I'll lay out my platform simply. -Protactinium should NOT be mayor. The mayor role is designed to be very helpful to either town/mafia depending on who gets it. Our goal is not to simply have non-scum as mayor, our goal is to have town as mayor. Why? More votes. Protactinium has no interest in who is lynched, he will simply vote the way the "town" wants him to so that he is not lynched himself. This is bad. Huh? Shouldn't the mayor use his votes the way the town wants? No, because the town is quite often wrong. Mafia will manipulate/split bandwagons and then try to influence the mayor to pad the lynch they want. The mayor should always vote for the person HE thinks is scum. The mayor should act autonomously and vote based on his own thoughts and instincts. An autonomous third party mayor is a terrible idea, an autonomous town-aligned mayor is not. -I'm okay with Protactinium being Pardoner. This will give him some protection and allow us to threaten him into using his DT check/kill power where we want it. The pardoner power is pretty insignificant compared to the mayoral power and I suppose we could make some use of him. As long as our focus is using proactinium to find scum NOT using him to find other assassins. -Pandain is stupid and bad. You should never roleclaim DT day 1 and he is essentially using his role to hold us hostage into voting for him. This makes perfect sense if he is godfather and it makes even more sense if he is on a scumteam with Protactinium. Unfortunately, DT is probably the most valuable town role and I really hate the idea of just letting him die. Pandain is a terrible scumhunter and is bad at almost every aspect of the game and the idea of him in a leadership position makes my skin crawl. I would be okay if he was pardoner and no one took him seriously/listened to him by accident. -This idea that you can't scumhunt on day 1 is retarded. That's my favorite bad point to make when I'm mafia. yeah the game is designed on the assumption that town mislynches on the first day. But we should all absolutely be focused on figuring out who is scum, who isn't. What is each persons motivation. WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH BY POSTING THIS. that's the question you should ask! Not: -what contradictions do they make (townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia) i'm gonna repeat that 100 times for emphasis: townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia townies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafiatownies contradict themselves as much if not more than mafia Okay. These are scenarios I am somewhat comfortable with: Mayor/Pardoner: Myself/Protactinium Gmarshal/Protacinium Gmarshal/Pandain Scenarios I prefer: Myself/Pandain Myself/Coagulation Myself/Gmarshal Gmarshal/Myself Gmarshal/Pandain Pandain might be the DT. Give him a worthless role like pardoner and watch him closely. I don't want to throw the DT away or waste medics on someone like him. Who I feel comfortable lynching and why: Kavdragon - His posts after role PMs were sent were designed to do two things. To seem as pro-town and helpful as possible and to contribute nothing at all. Lots of obvious "advice" and redundant bullshit. When called out he becomes defensive and tries to turn the tables on me. Not good. However kavdragon is a useful player if town, this is a risky lynch choice but I have a strong scum read on him. mib - Same deal. Tries to "contribute" but says nothing at all. Regurgitates talking points from previously in the thread and has a bad excuse to explain why that is. He's a new player and mostly inactive so lynching him should be no big loss if he's town anyway. So that's my thoughts. My plan is to have myself as mayor, I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. If bodyguards start dying, lynch pandain. He's an idiot so it won't be long before he fucks up if he faked his roleclaim, so I feel pretty safe about that. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 05:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote: The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2.... I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue... Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea: At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory. If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well. Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner. In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. you're a reasonable man i like you everyone listen to this guy if you don't you're bad or scum | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:01 Pandain wrote: actually you know what. IT would still work. I just don't run. I'm not dt why do you fake claim in every single fucking game | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On April 11 2011 06:09 Mig wrote: A couple things since Dr.H is still saying I am mafia. It's incorrect to say all I I am trying to do is repeat pro town comments. I believe there are only 2 posts where this could be argued. The first one I made on p27 I basically said exactly what Dr.H did but I posted it at almost the exact same time as him because I was typing it up at the same time. The 2nd post that could look suspicious was on the top of p28. In that post I made 2 points that hadn't been mentioned previously. That A) if we were worried about prot not doing what we tell him if he becomes mayor we can control him with the medics. If we just give him medic protection then hes basically held hostage by us since if he doesn't do exactly what we want we can just not protect him and we don't lose anything. B) that its still a risk to use medics on him since we don't know the actual role numbers and the assassins may outnumber our medics to where we can't possibly protect him. Someone said I was wishy washy for listing both points but I was trying to discuss what our optimal play was so I listed the pros and cons as I saw them, I still gave my opinion that it was too risky to use our medics on him. I want to add I think it is suspicious how Dr.H is playing. It's in the best interest for the town for the new players to post as much as possible. They are the ones most likely to give up information and they will be most easily read by the vets so the more they post the better. With how Dr.H is playing it really discourages new people from posting out of fear that they may just be labeled as bandwagoning onto other pro town comments. Dr.H can say hes just putting pressure on people to force mistakes but I think attacking the new players would be a very viable strategy for an aggressive mafia. After they attack a new player its likely the new player will either attack them back blindly or will start to post less. Either of which would make the new player appear suspicious. now im 100% sure | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:10 GMarshal wrote: we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. I think if he is at least put up as pardoner then we will shut up about him at least. As long as he agrees to use his check on our whim I don't see the problem with that. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:12 urashimakt wrote: After reading through Pandain's flight of fancy, I just wanted to give my two cents. Assuming Pandain is either green or scum, which I'm going to because anything else is going to break my brain/heart/misc vital organs, I still believe protecting Protact with the Pardoner position only is a good idea. Arguing about assassin business is not. Just forget he's an assassin imo, which is why I don't endorse him for Mayor. That would make it impossible to forget he's black. I have no idea about who should be mayor. I want someone who's calm, collected, and proven a good analyst. Someone people can get behind and argue with without creating a mess for scum to hide behind. The more vets post about each mayoral candidate and their thoughts, the better reads we newbies can get on the whole thing. Sorry if any of my points are disagreeable, I am admittedly new at this. i'm the most calm and collected person here | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:13 kitaman27 wrote: No, quite the opposite. If we put him as pardoner, he will be scrutinized and distract the town for the first half of the game. The real way for us to stop talking about him is to not elect him and let him get night killed by the other assassins. Pandain does have a point that if he's elected he is somehow accountable to us to use his powers in a pro-town way. Pardoner isn't a very useful role for town. I do worry though that too much attention will be focused on protactinium. If the town can hold itself together and manipulate protact while still focusing on scumhunting that would be great but maybe I'm too optimistic. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:14 Kavdragon wrote: Yes, sorry about that. Regardless of whether or not I win, I'm going to be trying to help everyone get jump started. I'm currently working on a rather large post, but it was interrupted by a sudden realization. I'll reveal later, but it wouldn't make sense to do so now. Hopefully I'll have both done by this afternoon. i hope your realization is that i am scum | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:21 AirbladeOrange wrote: Stay tuned for the dramatic announcement! I thought his posts before the game started were decent, but not I'm not so sure. I guess we can decide after the big announcement is made. I hope it's juicy. why? yeah they're "good" advice and thats why scum post like that, but it really comes off as a front to me see aidnai in experimental mini mafia for a great example of what im talking about | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:27 chaoser wrote: It's the BROOKLYN RAGE in all of us. I concur but....Y U NO INCLUDE ME???? my read on you is blank, that's why | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 11 2011 06:37 Barundar wrote: In loving memory: I find it interesting you want to lynch someone you don't think is scum. I have a much clearer town read on GMarshal than on DrH, and I find lynching kavdragon day 1 silly. why is it silly what about mib why do you think gmarshal is town? | ||
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