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On April 14 2011 06:46 redFF wrote:Here's what we should do lynch m0nsterChef. He was a lot of people's scum read day 1.
Hahahaha. So we should lynch him because he was a lot of people's scum read day 1? Judging from the overwhelming amount of votes on Coagulation today, its pretty safe to say that Coagulation is a lot of people's scum read day 2. Yesterday was day 1. Today is day 2. Given that we have a lot more information day 2 than day 1, lets go with the 'more information' and vote Coagulation. Stop trying to derail this lynch.
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On April 14 2011 07:34 ilovejonn wrote:
I like how people I feel uneasy about and dislike are in here though:
From vote count:
Coagulation: 10
Protactinium
DoctorHelvetica
kevconsim
chaoser
urashimakt
Rean
Mig
bumatlarge
DarthThienAn
Serejai
Thank you. I like this list. It shows us that these bolded people have a lower chance of being mafia than everyone originally suspects. Just look at the opposition to this lynch. Its obvious the mafia has a hand in it. Here's what people are not getting. From the Mafia's point of view, if Coagulation was town, they'd be content to let him die, because it wastes a day's lynch. They'd also know that I'm lying, so I'd get shot at night anyway. It would be a win-win situation for them. But that's not happening, since Coagulation is mafia and I'm really the DT. No wonder the mafia have to come out and oppose this lynch in full force.
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On April 14 2011 08:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 08:12 M0nsterChef wrote:On April 14 2011 08:10 GMarshal wrote:On April 14 2011 08:06 M0nsterChef wrote:On April 14 2011 07:45 redFF wrote:On April 14 2011 07:38 M0nsterChef wrote:
If we lynch coagulation and he flips green, then do we automatically lynch FW?
Also: which people do you guys think deserve dt/ tracker checks? Why do you ask, are u dt/tracker? How about you post your opinions on anything for once. Do you trust Flamewheel? Do you think we should lynch coag? What do you think of the huge post i made trying to prove to other people you are scum??? You haven't made one post talking about your stance on any issues, come on!!! THIS GUY IS FUCKING SCUM I'm not scum. Wonderful defense, I love how you indexed it and everything so I could easily refernce the different points. Theres a well bodied accusation against you out there. Please try to defend yourself better than this. I'm a tracker. I tracked RedFF and he didn't go anywhere. You're either scum or stupid. Alright. I have been gently calling Coag and GMarshall scum since the beginning of night 0. A little more so today. I gotta believe scum has seen this. Looking over the people we lost last night I can't quite understand why CubeDin v1 who was just put in the game would have been killed over me. Same with tnkted. He did a lot of analysis but most of it's wrong because he doesn't understand the mechanics of the game. Both GMarshall and Coag know that once I start calling somebody scum I don't quit. If either were scum I gotta believe I would be dead rather than Cube and Twinkles (Miss you my love). Rean didn't post a lot in Insane. I was actually surprised he turned up blue in that game. But his posts weren't bullshit laden cesspools. Serajatroll is another one I would love to lynch. Neither are town oriented. They both play the idiot card. I would rather see either of them go. Neither are an asset. Both are very likely scum. I'm going to vote for Rean.
Don't over think things. It's clear that the mafia was trying to blue snipe last night, not hit the vocal players. You being alive doesn't say anything about anyone. Please reconsider your stance on Coagulation.
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On April 14 2011 09:22 LSB wrote:
I have a neutral read on Rean, however I'd rather lynch Rean over Coagulation.
So you'd rather lynch someone who you have a "neutral read" on over someone who has been DT checked and has overwhelming behavior evidence against him?
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On April 14 2011 11:10 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:08 urashimakt wrote:On April 14 2011 10:55 GMarshal wrote:On April 13 2011 15:26 Protactinium wrote:
Alright guys, now that night is over, I have another announcement to make.
I checked Coagulation last night, and he is Mafia. you sir are not a DT, because that is not how DT's funcion in this game. DTs here return a role from which you must infer alignment. You didn't claim your check revealed coag to be a goon or a roleblocker, because you had no way of knowing that that is what you would get back as a dt, you didn't check coag last night because you are an assassin, hence you dont know if he is scum and if he is you dont know what role. Can we now as a town ignore the assassin? The whole case that's been made, starting last night with DrH's evaluation, is that whether Prot is black or blue, he is banking on Coag being red. So whether Flamewheel has detected him as red or analyzed him as red, people are trusting in his need for Coagulation to be red. I don't see how this mindblowing tidbit changes anything. I am really starting to think that you are undoubtedly desperate. This info is useful to mafia because it would give them a better idea of whether he's black or blue, just to be sure. It proves absolutely nothing to town. On April 14 2011 11:03 GMarshal wrote:
too late liar, I already nailed you to the wall. There's no squirming out of this one. Your case that he didn't want to tell you whether he was goon or roleblocker is not nearly as convincing as you think it is. The only reason I think we should consider not lynching Coag today is to lynch you instead and see what happens to Coag/FW during the night. you go on the invisible people list too, seriously, how the hell do you fail to see the relevance of this? flamewheel dosn't even know how the DTs work! Which means he is LYING!
Why did you so desperately want to know? Also, do you really think that I, of all people, don't know how DTs work?
Quit grasping at straws. Quit jumping the gun, jumping on me, and giving me these "time constraints", as I'm going in order of responding to the thread. You got desperate: how about you quit attacking the messenger, and actually address the actual behavior points against Coagulation. I'm simply loving this day: I expected Mafia would come out of the woodworks to defend Coagulation. Not only that, you trapped yourself.
By continuously asking me explicitly what my check received is a clear indication that you are Mafia. If Coagulation was a roleblocker, I would have said so. But I did not. He is just a goon. Seriously your itchy trigger finger got you in trouble this time. You got scared now that I've come back to put an end to your chaos-making antics. It's over scum.
Also, its curious how you only decide to attack the messenger, while you’ve ignored all the behavior points I made against Coagulation. If it wasn’t obvious that you were Mafia before, it sure is obvious now.
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On April 14 2011 11:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
coagulation is not a power player I can't see any mafia faking a DT claim to save a lynch on coagulation. that's pretty desperate play especially considering how much dissent there already is to the lynch:
and the fact that mafia has no reason to try to get protactinium lynched/killed if they believe he is the assassin (unlike the reasons they would have to keep him out of office)
Incorrect. Coagulation is a key player for the mafia. It's not that he's a good player, it's that mafia have already committed to saving him. Look back at the thread. Ever since my Coagulation accusation, mafia have been trying to subtly redirect the lynch. Notice how people are "not convinced" that Coagulation is mafia, try to suggest that we let me die tonight to "prove" that Coagulation is innocent, and try to suggest other targets. Yet notice the divergence in the voting thread. The voting is overwhelmingly in favor of lynching Coagulation, yet the debate in the thread diverges sharply. This is not an accident. Notice how nobody was doing any real analysis before I popped up and accused Coagulation. Mafia felt no need to fear when they thought I was as good as dead. But when I post a strong analysis, they reacted. They reacted not by refuting my points, but by flooding the thread with alternative accusations trying to derail the lynch. Why? They don't know who to push. They know the Coagulation analysis is a strong one, so they need to offer a target that town will readily buy. They're trying to test the waters and see what lynch works.
Obviously, Coagulation is Mafia. If he were anything but, Mafia would be content to let him die and would have never felt the need to defend him in the first place. It is certain that mafia defended him originally, as shown by the floods of alternative target suggestions. Your so-called "analyst" Pardoner doesn't do anything but fling mud at me for the better part of a day. Yet when I return and start decimating his attempt to derail the lynch, he panics and decides to fake claim DT in a desperate attempt to make the town back out. Oh, and not to mention he does a bogus ultimatum in which he makes a shoddy attempt to discredit my DT claim. GMarshal's DT claim as Mafia makes total sense. He can't be rolechecked, and given the situation the mafia is in, he needs to do something to stop the Coagulation lynch. Furthermore, he knows who the mafia are, so it isn't that difficult to solidify his position later on in the game. Just look back at GMarshal's behavior. Its clearly scumlike. He was elected on a platform of being a "good analyzer", but he has done nothing but fling mud, spread doubt, and make a few half hearted attempts at analysis. GMarshal has something to hide, since he is obviously mafia. Mafia have every reason to save Coagulation now because they've already committed to the lynch. Too many people are coming out accusing people of being mafia. Mafia felt pressured, and were forced to make a big move.
Mafia got overconfident and thought they could discredit me because I switched claims. Unfortunately for them it failed.
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On April 14 2011 11:55 GMarshal wrote:
In my mind the point raised against coag was "prot is a DT, he got back a check saying he is red, lynch coag!" As to his analysis I have no real reply because I can't read coag at all, I read his posts and wonder if he is drunk, and then move on with my life. I simply think that that analysis is going to be biased anyway because this is prots last night on earth.
Here's the cop out. The truth is, he doesn't respond to the analysis because he can't. He knows Coagulation is mafia. If you take a step back and think about motive, GMarshal has been way more shady than I have. I have been completely transparent and have been completely honest with you and have revealed all my plans to you. On the other hand, GMarshal has nothing to show for his empty words.
Think about GMarshal's overall profile. What is he trying to do? From day 1, notice how he does not express support for any candidate other than himself. Why? It seems that every other candidate was expressing who they wanted in office and why. It is extremely important for town to pick good elected officials. Yet GMarshal did nothing of the sort, and didn't say who he wanted to win election, besides himself. Yet he had no trouble in saying who he thought shouldn't be elected. It's obvious he has an agenda here. He doesn't care who gets in, as long as he is one of the winners. Look at the suspicious votes GMarshal gets. There are countless lurkers and inactives who vote GMarshal without explaining why. And as you recall, GMarshal was the first one out the gate, and managed to obtain a sizable lead early on in the race, while everyone else was stuck at less than 4 votes. At one point in time, GMarshal's 11 votes outnumbered all the other candidates combined. This is not a coincidence. As I've said before, mafia candidates are never uncompetitive in a mayoral election. Having the 20% of the total voting power, mafia always tend to get an early lead and maintain it. Why is this? Because of town tendencies to bandwagon, it is very advantageous to get an early lead, as you are likely to attract votes of newer/inexperienced/uninterested townies who feel safe voting for a big name player who leads the vote count. GMarshal's early lead suggests mafia interference. But that's not all. Look at the thread activity during day 1. There are plenty of people who are unsure of electing DH or me on day 1, but almost all GMarshal's voters are unmoving. There was plenty of room to sway votes among the DH/Protact crowd, but GMarshal's voters were alarmingly loyal.
Look at how GMarshal has acted during day 1. He mentions lynching inactives, is strongly opposed to me, yet ignores my accusation that he is black. After that accusation, he plays a little act and calms down a little, and even begins to waver. Yet a few posts later he's back to attacking me full on. He shares much the same profile as Coagulation. When I have no chance of winning, he doesn't say much. But when I suddenly get 3 votes, he starts spamming the thread along with Coagulation to try to stop my election. That's not all. Look at how he handles the lynch. He knows that he is leading for mayor, yet he is very vague when discussing who he is going to lynch. Although he suggests a few inactive/lurking targets, he never settles on one. He makes a half assed analysis on Mr. Wiggles, in which he cannot draw any conclusions. He never really takes the initiative to point out scum. Compare this to his town play, where he isn't afraid to smack down his vote and express a solid opinion.
Now on to day 2. GMarshal has done nothing productive for the town. He claims he is a good analyst, but it doesn't show. All he does is throw doubt and confusion, and opposes the Coagulation lynch strongly. I've already pointed out why this is a pro-mafia move. His first 10 or so posts on day 2 are aimed at shooting down the lynch. How? He does it by attacking my character. It's not hard to see how my analysis makes sense and is infinitely superior to others people have put out. Yet GMarshal can't be bothered to be any more pro town than shooting down the lynch. Put yourselves in a townie's shoes for a moment. Suppose you didn't believe my analysis, and there are already 10 votes on the suspect. As a townie, and especially a town elected official, you have to work quickly. You need to pick out a strong mafia target and push him hard. You can't just sit around, fling mud at the current lynch, and not push the town in the right direction. All of a sudden, GMarshal posts a huge DH accusation. Pro-town, right? Wrong. If you read the accusation, it's hillariously half-assed. It includes mockery and caricatures to make DH seem ridiculous and anti-town. DH's play is generally abrasive, yes. But in this game, it is clearly not anti-town. Notice how since from day 1, he's been calling out suspects, and isn't afraid to look like the bad guy. DH is too aggressive and bold to be mafia. Compare this to his mafia play in XVI, and you'll notice a huge difference. DH is much more diplomatic and wishy washy about his reads when he is mafia. Anyway, the important point is how GMarshal reacts after this "analysis". He continues to mess around, posting aimlessly, and posts nothing of value to the town. He doesn't even bother pushing his lynch target. This should ring red bells in everyone's head. A townie would be pushing for their lynch with all conviction. Yet what as GMarshal been doing? He posts his analysis, and doesn't mention it until a bit later where he asks DH to respond. Now just think about it. If you're town and have an accusation to make, you don't just post it and then just ignore it. You use whatever method you have to force people to focus on your analysis and push your agenda. GMarshal does nothing of that sort. He isn't serious about lynching DH, he is just trying to appear like he's helping town.
It's actually been obvious that GMarshal was mafia ever since day 1. I was hoping to avoid pointing out GMarshal as scum in the thread, because if he knew that we caught him, that he would just pardon Coagulation and gain delay us for a day. But alas, he was too aggressive to ignore. Everyone switch your votes to GMarshal, otherwise he will pardon Coagulation and this lynch is going to be wasted.
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On April 14 2011 13:11 chaoser wrote:
Everyone switch your votes to GMarshal, otherwise he will pardon Coagulation and this lynch is going to be wasted.
...did you...did you really just say that? You're switch targets from the person you "checked and flipped red" to GM? If GM pardons Coag we still get two mafia. Man...losing trust very very fast lol
That's not the thing. Look at how far out the Mafia team, GMarshal included, is willing to stick their necks to save Coagulation. Right now, if he pardons Coagulation that means Coagulation lives an extra day. And even if you lynch them the following days or shoot them at night, what it works out to is that extra Mafia member means an extra day of having 1 more KP, which means there's another dead townsperson. Furthermore, GMarshal not pardoning today means there's still the possibility of him ninja-Pardoning in the future, which essentially gives the Mafia an extra night to kill.
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On April 14 2011 18:22 DropBear wrote:
This is interesting. All your analysis of him was based on day 1.
Did you see Coagulations defense on day 2? As I already stated, it was desperate and obviously scummy.
You could be very right and Coag and Marsh could be scum but I trust you about as far as I could throw you.
If you would like to critique the analysis, by all means do so. Don't shrug off my analysis just because you don't trust me. Read my analysis, and see if it makes sense. If it makes sense, then vote Coagulation. This has nothing to do with trusting me. It has to do with whether or not the analysis is good. If you are town, dismissing my analysis by attacking my credibility is a bad move.
On April 14 2011 19:31 DropBear wrote:Also Flamewheel, it seems to me that a key point in your case against GMarshal and your case against Coag are at odds. Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 12:56 Protactinium wrote:
Think about GMarshal's overall profile. What is he trying to do? From day 1, notice how he does not express support for any candidate other than himself. Why? It seems that every other candidate was expressing who they wanted in office and why. It is extremely important for town to pick good elected officials. Yet GMarshal did nothing of the sort, and didn't say who he wanted to win election, besides himself. Yet he had no trouble in saying who he thought shouldn't be elected. It's obvious he has an agenda here. He doesn't care who gets in, as long as he is one of the winners. Look at the suspicious votes GMarshal gets. There are countless lurkers and inactives who vote GMarshal without explaining why. And as you recall, GMarshal was the first one out the gate, and managed to obtain a sizable lead early on in the race, while everyone else was stuck at less than 4 votes. At one point in time, GMarshal's 11 votes outnumbered all the other candidates combined. This is not a coincidence. As I've said before, mafia candidates are never uncompetitive in a mayoral election. Having the 20% of the total voting power, mafia always tend to get an early lead and maintain it. Why is this? Because of town tendencies to bandwagon, it is very advantageous to get an early lead, as you are likely to attract votes of newer/inexperienced/uninterested townies who feel safe voting for a big name player who leads the vote count. GMarshal's early lead suggests mafia interference. But that's not all. Look at the thread activity during day 1. There are plenty of people who are unsure of electing DH or me on day 1, but almost all GMarshal's voters are unmoving. There was plenty of room to sway votes among the DH/Protact crowd, but GMarshal's voters were alarmingly loyal.
All the people not voting Marsh for mayor debated in the thread. Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 12:14 Protactinium wrote:On April 14 2011 11:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
coagulation is not a power player I can't see any mafia faking a DT claim to save a lynch on coagulation. that's pretty desperate play especially considering how much dissent there already is to the lynch:
and the fact that mafia has no reason to try to get protactinium lynched/killed if they believe he is the assassin (unlike the reasons they would have to keep him out of office) Incorrect. Coagulation is a key player for the mafia. It's not that he's a good player, it's that mafia have already committed to saving him. Look back at the thread. Ever since my Coagulation accusation, mafia have been trying to subtly redirect the lynch. Notice how people are "not convinced" that Coagulation is mafia, try to suggest that we let me die tonight to "prove" that Coagulation is innocent, and try to suggest other targets. Yet notice the divergence in the voting thread. The voting is overwhelmingly in favor of lynching Coagulation, yet the debate in the thread diverges sharply. This is not an accident. Notice how nobody was doing any real analysis before I popped up and accused Coagulation. Mafia felt no need to fear when they thought I was as good as dead. But when I post a strong analysis, they reacted. They reacted not by refuting my points, but by flooding the thread with alternative accusations trying to derail the lynch. Why? They don't know who to push. They know the Coagulation analysis is a strong one, so they need to offer a target that town will readily buy. They're trying to test the waters and see what lynch works. All the people not voting for Coag to be lynched debated in the thread. You really are desperate to find cases if your cases are conflicting. HOWEVER this point, although you've shown it accidentally, shows that something is amiss here. We have two seemingly different, very rapidly formed bandwagons. Which names are on both wagons? - Robellicose, who has done little but repeat himself and sheep. - Serejai, who has done little but troll. - Kenpachi, who has been extremely quiet and made a bizarre sheep post. I am interested in these three names.
The discrepancy you point out is not a discrepancy at all. There was debate on DH/my candidacy because mafia were spreading doubt. There is debate on the Coag lynch because mafia need to split up the vote in order to save Coag. Makes total sense here.
The combination of his being on both bandwagons, his bizarre posting and the subtle differences between this game and his Insane 2 town posting are why you should ##Vote Kenpachi
Being on both bandwagons is not indicative of him being mafia. In fact, it proves just the opposite - he is actually a town bandwagoner.
Gmarshal: 13
DoctorHelvetica
Lanaia
Robellicose
Coagulation
OriginalName
Mig
AirbladeOrange
M0nsterChef
kevconsim
darmousseh
Kenpachi
Serejai
Barundar
Lemonwalrus
Kavdragon
GMarshal
tnkted
Latrommi
Coagulation: 10
Protactinium
DoctorHelvetica
kevconsim
chaoser
urashimakt
Rean
Mig
bumatlarge
DarthThienAn
Serejai
Robellicose
Kenpachi
Notice how only 3 of the names are on both lists. This means that a majority of the GMarshal voters do not agree with the Coagulation lynch. If you look at GMarshal's strong defense (not a direct defense, but a credibility attack by me) of Coagulation, it makes sense. GMarshal and Coag have the same alignment. The people who are on both bandwagons are likely bored townies who don't want to spend time analyzing and are just voting the bandwagon. Mafia are definitely not jumping onto this bandwagon because there is way too much opposition to the lynch.
Kenpachi may have some slight posting differences. But Coagulation has huge posting differences. Its day and night. Look over his previous games to see for yourself. Kenpachi is 99% town. Please reconsider your vote and vote Coagulation.
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On April 15 2011 01:23 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 01:06 Barundar wrote:
@GM Doesn't mean you can't have an opinion on him, coag's meta is no where as solid as a player like Ace. You just ignored that I critized your analysis of AO and went on a rant about coag, I guess you are more touchy on the last issue?
@Jackal Yeah we don't have to believe his DT claim. His arguments are like any other arguments though, you either agree or disagree. LSB lied so much in last game that I stopped looking at the arguments against chaoser and just wanted him dead, which turned out to be a huge mistake as you know. Well what am I going to say about your criticism of my arguments? You brought up no real points other than its "bashing" not much I can reply to that, now is there? I could argue the point, but anyone who reads the analysis can come to their own conclusions, there's no need for me to get upset over it ^_^ I dont follow what you are implying about coag's meta, as far as I know every game I have played with coag he has played exactly the same. Either way, its irrelevant, we are either going to hang him today or have him shot tonight, that will clear up the situation wonderfully. In regards to protacs arguments, which seems to be what really concerns you; find that much of what protac says seems to make sense to me, his arguments are persuasive, I even agree with some if his points, and then I remember it coagulation I'm talking about, the guy who ten minutes into the day in Guts and Glory suicided into our medic, the guy who claimed medic to LSB in XXXVII based only on his gut. So yes, I do find the liars arguments persuasive, fw is a great poster and I find his analysis to be excellent, if he had tried this on almost any other player I would probably be waving a pitchfork and going for the lynch of his chosen target. Is that enough of an opinion for you? Anyway I'm done discussing coag, if you guys want to lynch him then do so, otherwise a vigi will shoot him tonight (assuming we have any around). I'm off to class, I'll be back later to scumhunt.
After refusing to address my actual points, the pressured pardoner finally concedes that the analysis is strong. Yet he doesn't want to vote Coagulation. This is a mafia who doesn't want to commit to bussing a teammate.
Anyway, due to the lack of votes for GMarshal, I'm going to switch back to Coagulation. When GMarshal pardons though, don't be surprised.
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Do you guys see how desperate you guys are getting? There is no way we should let Coag escape this lynch. There is strong evidence against him, both behavioral and a DT check.
On April 15 2011 07:17 ilovejonn wrote:
The only BAD situation I can think of for town is if we have no Vig's left after Pandain died. Therefore if Coag lives the night and claims a hit, and if no VIGI's step up to claim they shot Coag, I'm willing to bet Coag is scum.
The bolded situation will never happen. Coagulation is Mafia. Lets say we go with your plan. If Coagulation doesn't die tonight, then Mafia know 100% that a Vigilante did not hit him. Thus, they would have one of their own claim Vigilante. Town keeps sheeping and Coagulation survives. "But this is too risky for the mafia to do!" you say. Not so. Like I've said earlier, Coagulation is already tied to all the mafia. Mafia have been pushing hard to defend him. They need to prevent Coag from flipping at all costs in order to prevent the entire mafia team from crumbling.
On April 15 2011 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
He didn't want to claim. Scums goal is to get the claim in right away. He didn't claim until I actually pressured him to.
It sounds like you have a preset agenda, you don't want to analyse the information to come to a conclusion, you want to manipulate the information to come to your conclusion.
He says he didn't want to claim. But if you actually look at it: he does want to claim. You didn't really "pressure" him to. That's what he wants you to think. I mean, you asked GM a really simple question. But instead of arguing/asking the mod in the thread like chaoser did, he decides its too much pressure and decides to claim? Lol.
Anyway, the suggestion of leaving Coagulation alive so that GMarshal can check him is simply insane. Why do you trust GMarshal's DT claim? GMarshal claimed DT under no pressure whatsoever. He never gave a credible reason for claiming DT. He only did it to attempt to discredit me. In GMarshal's own words: "I was hoping to keep this as a surprise to the scum in the lategame, but I'm not going to let the assassin get away with shit". Now just take a careful look at this claim. GMarshal claims that he wanted to keep his role a surprise, but decided that revealing yourself to "out" an assassin is worth giving up the advantage over the Mafia? That statement has no credibility whatsoever. Furthermore, GMarshal shows no real reluctance to claim DT. He makes this claim right after he accuses me of lying about being DT due to phrasing. (Like seriously, DT checks return roles, not alignments, in every normal TL mafia game. Just because I didn't adopt this game's convention of adding "Goon" after "Mafia" I'm a liar? Lol, this is not mafiascum, we don't have "tells" like that). There is nothing pressuring GMarshal to claim. Only half an hour of posting his divine revelation, GMarshal gives up his role. On April 14 2011 11:30 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 11:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 14 2011 11:27 GMarshal wrote:On April 14 2011 11:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 14 2011 10:55 GMarshal wrote:On April 13 2011 15:26 Protactinium wrote:
Alright guys, now that night is over, I have another announcement to make.
I checked Coagulation last night, and he is Mafia. you sir are not a DT, because that is not how DT's funcion in this game. DTs here return a role from which you must infer alignment. You didn't claim your check revealed coag to be a goon or a roleblocker, because you had no way of knowing that that is what you would get back as a dt, you didn't check coag last night because you are an assassin, hence you dont know if he is scum and if he is you dont know what role. Can we now as a town ignore the assassin? If you explain how exactly you know this then I am fully ready to abandon the coagulation lynch and do a new analysis. Read the description in the op very carefully. I'm not going to say more than that either way. It says reveal their "true profession". This does not necessarily imply that they will not get alignment. Well then I guess I have no choice but to claim. I'm a DT. I will *not* reveal who I checked as to not put them into any danger. I was hoping to keep this as a surprise to the scum in the lategame, but I'm not going to let the assassin get away with shit.
Wait, you're saying that you're claiming DT because DH asked about the rules? Give me a break. You didn't "have no choice". It was only half an hour before you made your accusation, and between the time that you posted it and claimed DT, there was no sign that there was "no more hope" for your claim to be successful. You planned to claim DT all along. You knew that your accusation was flimsy, and claimed DT to lend credibility to your attack. What's most telling though is your last sentence. You were hoping to surprise scum, but decided it was better to reveal yourself early to discredit an assassin with shoddy reasoning because you don't like how the lynch is going? Mafia are trying hard to stop this lynch. Notice how GMarshal hasn't actually gotten anywhere with his "analysis", and still keeps prominsing to do more "analysis" (which hits a brick wall and never gets anywhere anyway). This is a classic contradiction that reveals your true motives. You pretend like you were trying hard to prevent giving up your role, but gave it up easily under no pressure and with no strong motive, unless of course, you are mafia trying to discredit a lynch on a fellow mafia.
On April 15 2011 07:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Reading LSB's recent posts has put me in a bit of a new perspective. If he's scum, I doubt the mafia is all going along with this. Unfortunately Coagulations alignment gives a HUGE amount of information.
I think we should lynch Rean or m0nsterchef, someone like that. Have GMarshal check coagulation on night 2 and report the results. This way we can get the "information" without potentially losing a townie.
That's my plan : /
Also going to take a look at: redFF
Please don't get emotional here. This lynch is important. You say that Coagulation's alignment gives a huge amount of information. You also just admit here that you think Coagulation is scum. Then right after that you suggest keeping him alive and letting another obvious mafia "DT check" him? Like I just proved in the previous paragraph, GMarshal has an obviously false DT claim which is loaded with mafia motives. Its pretty obvious now that they are both on the same side. You are flip-flopping too much. I know you're town. Please consider this rationally and don't second guess yourself too much. Mafia know that letting Coagulation die leaves their whole team exposed (like you said, he gives too much information when lynched). The "mafia wouldn't stick out their necks that far to save Coagulation" argument doesn't hold here. Coagulation is Mafia. Therefore he should be lynched.
On April 15 2011 08:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Yes, I think he is town aligned. No one is taking his posts seriously, he isn't doing anything to affect the lynch/mislead town, he's essentially just posting jokes. It's hard to read that and I think there are bigger fish to deal with.
i.e scum actively trying to mislead lynches/town
i.e lsb
Scum want you to derail the lynch. Even though I agree that LSB is super scummy, it doesn't change the fact that his goal is to save Coag. There are too many people who haven't voted yet, and we can't afford to have them all come in and derail the lynch. They are unknown variables. We need to stay focused on Coagulation.
People, don't sheep the mafia. Mafia is lying their way to town trying to save Coag.
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On April 15 2011 08:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
You are not the DT. You don't know Coagulation is mafia.
Please read my post. You're just ignoring logic and are building cases off of false assumptions. You were elected based on the premise that you think for yourself and don't sheep town. But clearly you are being tricked by GMarshal's and others' statements and have not taken a step back to evaluate the situation objectively. Let me prove it to you.
Right now, you just stated 4 possibilities in your plan:
On April 15 2011 08:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:DoctorHelvetica's Plan -GMarshal and the other (or if there are three all of them) check Coagulation on Night 2. -GMarshal announces his results. -If his results are incorrect, the other DT will claim and out him (and get medic protection that night) This is undeniably a winning scenario for town. Look at each scenario. GMarshal and Coagulation are SCUM.-GMarshal is forced to bus him. -If GMarshal lies about his claim to save Coagulation, the other DT calls him out and we lynch GMarshal and VIG HIT Coagulation. Netting a double scum kill. GMarshal is DT and Coagulation is scum-We lynch Coagulation and get a mafia kill. GMarshal is scum and Coagulation is blue-GMarshal is forced to lie and he will always lie that Coagulation is the veteran. -If Coagulation is actually a different green/blue role or an assassin the real DT will claim this and we lynch GMarshal. Both GMarshal and Coagulation are the roles they originally claimed.-We now have good information we can use to reevaluate Day 2 and we avoid wasting a lynch on Coag or Protactinium.
However, there is 1 option you left out.
Lets go with your stubborn assumption that I am not a DT, and that I in fact do not know Coagulation's role. If I am not DT, then you forgot the option that Coagulation is actually the Godfather. In this case, Scenario 1 would be false, and would work perfectly for the mafia. GMarshal would not be forced to bus him and will claim that Coagulation is a Vet. The other DTs will stay silent because they have no reason to believe that GMarshal is lying. Thus, Coagulation is saved for another day, town thinks he is "confirmed", and GMarshal is "proven" to be the DT. You did not consider this situation, which shows that you subconsciously believe my DT claim. I have already proven why GMarshal is blatantly lying about being DT. Please evaluate this situation objectively before jumping off a cliff in an attempt to be the town hero.
You're trying to convolute things too much. The simplest answer is: I'm a DT, I checked Coagulation, and he is red.
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On April 15 2011 09:11 Rean wrote:
Protact, I know you agree with my points on Coagulation and GMarshal as for them being scum, but could you put your assassin things aside and give your thoughts on the other 6 guys I called scum please?
I will give my thoughts after this lynch is over. You can have my word on that. We just can't afford to derail this lynch anymore than it already has. Look, the mafia is already making their move and trying to switch to LSB.
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On April 15 2011 09:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 09:08 Protactinium wrote:
Please read my post. You're just ignoring logic and are building cases off of false assumptions. This is too fucking funny to pass up.
You didn't read my post! If you don't want to read any of the rest, at least read that one. You'll agree that it makes sense.
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Also Dr.H you thinking I'm town doesn't clear you from answering my analysis even if its "bad" I expect a response tomorrow ^_^
See? Scum like to make these kind of ultimatums. You think that making these cute statements gives you the upper hand, don't you. Its so glaringly obvious that DH is town. If you really believe that he is mafia, then you shouldn't call yourself a good analyst. Also, where's that "analysis" you've been promising, huh?? Why should he respond to bad analysis? That just clutters up the thread. When you make a bad analysis, you don't have the right to force people to spread your bad ideas through the thread. Thats what mafia like to do. Cause confusion, and spam irrelevant ideas throughout the thread to disrupt the town agenda.
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On April 15 2011 09:23 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 09:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 15 2011 09:11 chaoser wrote:If I am not DT, then you forgot the option that Coagulation is actually the Godfather. In this case, Scenario 1 would be false, and would work perfectly for the mafia. GMarshal would not be forced to bus him and will claim that Coagulation is a Vet. The other DTs will stay silent because they have no reason to believe that GMarshal is lying. Thus, Coagulation is saved for another day, town thinks he is "confirmed", and GMarshal is "proven" to be the DT This is true That's a good point. In fact coagulation being godfather would explain the major save. also I see absolutely no reason for you to tunnel coag unless you're the DT. but if coag were the gf then how would protac know? Are we ignoring the blatant contradctions now? He is a proven liar, he either think coag is black or is praying he guessed right and is a goon to "prove" his claim. But fine, you guys want to be stupid, then I'm not going to stop you. Also Dr.H you thinking I'm town doesn't clear you from answering my analysis even if its "bad" I expect a response tomorrow ^_^
##Unvote
##Vote: CoagulationIf coag flips anything other than "mafia goon" protac, you are toast, so pray to whichever gods you worship. Why people are still listening to a proven liar who is 100% an assassin, I will never understand.
Hold on. Watch GMarshal grudgingly vote Coagulation all the while complaining about the lynch. Take note of this. This is our Day 3 lynch target.
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I guess that takes away from the validity of my points, but I still don't trust that Proact is the actual DT since there have been slip-ups.
Seriously, its getting really obnoxious. Stop trying to keep discredit me. Its not working, get it? Even Mr. scum pardoner was forced to agree with me and vote his scumbuddy.
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You guys seem to not be making the distinction for when I am talking in the hypothetical and when I am not. Please read it over carefully if you still don't get it.
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On April 15 2011 09:44 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 09:42 Protactinium wrote:
Seriously, its getting really obnoxious. Stop trying to keep discredit me. Its not working, get it? Even Mr. scum pardoner was forced to agree with me and vote his scumbuddy. We don't have to. You did that. Man why didn't you just play as Flamewheel and run for mayor without theatrics. You would have had my vote.
Again, people keep missing the point. Why be boring and run for mayor normally when you can draw out all the mafia? Look. Everyone is making the false assumption that I was trying to win the mayor election at all costs. That is not true. I am trying to win this game. And even if that means taking the risk of losing the mayor election, look how far its gotten me? This game will be decided once Coagulation flips red.
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On April 15 2011 09:55 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 09:53 LSB wrote:
Summary of the reasons why people are being pushed to lynch.
Flamewheel Lied about being DT. Is obviously ainitown
Coagulation Flamewheel said he is DT and check coagulation who turned up red
LSB Defends coagulation. Coagulation was checked by Flamewheel and is red. Therefore LSB is red.
All I can say is wow You argue with them, I'm tired of fighting against a know liar and the town just flatly ignoring me, and/or siding with the assassin.
You know its pro-town to ignore the arguments of mafia peoples, right? Good job town, keep at it.
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EPT
