TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 18

On April 15 2011 09:11 chaoser wrote:


This is true

On April 15 2011 09:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:


If coag is GF he would've shown up as Veteran to the DT check, like Trance just pointed out.

On April 15 2011 09:23 chaoser wrote:


I'd rather have a Coag lynch, LSB check/vigi. There's so much defense over coag himself where they're merely arguing against Prot's alignment and not the actual analysis. There's throwaway lines like "he's always spammy, this is how he is" etc. when really, yeah he's spammy, but it's a focused targetted spam. He'd be on someone's ass hardcore. But he hasn't this game. I haven't felt the need to be like god damnit coag, chill the fuck out that I usually do. He's playing different. Pretty sure at this point we all know prot is black and he's going to get shot to shit. Doesn't mean the theory of Coag being GF any less true. It lines up with why people are coming out in FORCE to save him.

On April 15 2011 09:29 GMarshal wrote:


I think that would give the mafia extra incentive to hit LSB if he is town, and otherwise makes it so that medics have to stack on him just in case. I'd rather remain autonomous, but if the town insists that that that is what they want, then I am happy to comply.

On April 15 2011 10:21 LSB wrote:

How about me?

There are two people up for vote, me and coagulation. I don't want to lynch coag, and voting for myself is stupid

On April 15 2011 10:03 LSB wrote:

Town is going to lose this. It's like Mafia XXXV. The town is a mob and is only as smart as the leader. Although people may think individually they are smart and analyze much, most people play a game of follow the leader.

XXXVIII worked nicely since of the lucky Day 1 lynch got quiet a few of the vets to become the leader
However this game is kindof doomed. Anyone competent is either killed (kavdragon) or ignored. Tonight the mafia will snipe a few more vets.

In addition, the leaders that have emerged Flamewheel and DocH are not suited for their roles. Flamewheel because his role PM is not green or blue, DocH because he screws over any town he is in.

If I were you Gmarshal, I would count on my bodyguards. Once the town calms down, use your immunity to push for a lynch on the clear mafia.

On April 15 2011 10:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:


Then pick someone you think is scum. If you think protact is scum, sure, vote for him. But for everyone voting for him because he's an assassin, it's silly. Lynching an assassin isn't very great for town.

On April 15 2011 10:27 Lemonwalrus wrote:
Don't waste your votes on Protactinium, THEY are probably about to get modkilled.

On April 15 2011 10:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:


Smurfs are supposed to have checked in with the host before the game has begun, so if it's true, then BB probably knows about it. Also, aren't strategic modkills not allowed?

On April 14 2011 03:12 GMarshal wrote:
Well, since I don't want to waste our lynch on coag I thought I would provide you something nice to work with.

GMarshal's Analysis of Dr.H

This originally started as a PbP but man, Dr.H posts in a volume to rival mine



is the first non-troll post Dr.H makes besides stating that he does not talk at night.

Interesting to see how he is tunneling from the start
This is not a scumtell. I have no reason to tunnel Kavdragon. If I am mafia honestly the people I want dead from N0 are Protactinium and Aidnai. I tunneled him because I honestly believed he was scum.



Kav was trying to help the newibes in the early game and as we had aready stated there was not much to discuss but generalities. Also notable that Dr.H calls on his experience as a host to try impress upon us how right he is.huh this is a basic meta read that same sentence written as "you did this same thing in pokemafia" would have made the same point, without pointing out how much of a "vet" you are I was pointing out I had a very vested interest in the game since I HOSTED it i knew very clearly everyones thought process and motivation as I was monitoring the scumteam in irc as they planned their strategy lol



more tunneling, oh joy, lets discard any value in night 0 discussion explaining to people how to play and put it down to trying to look pro-town When this comes up right away it's suspicious to me. It sets off red flags and I'm reminded of Radfield in Salem or Aidnai in ExMiMa



Here, I'll translate, "I dont want any suspicion cast on me if I run" and "No way scum would run, lol"

right... the mafia team is just going to ignore the possibility of getting 3 more votes or the pardon in order to "keep attention on the mayor, pardoner" sure thing.

then he has a series of posts where he basically uses one liners to criticizes every word out of kavs mouth.

Then comes the assassin claim. Dr.H seems to be pretty happy to support him, as it "keeps the role out of mafia hands" I wont go into the discussion of the assassin again, but it *is* anti town to hand out the role to a third party out of fear I later realized this and changed my mind. Because at first I thought "This could really work out in our favor" then I realized it would be ideal to have an assassin pardoner instead. I still believe that would have been the best scenario.



contributing without contributing, its easy to speculate on balance, watch "I bet there are 3 vigs, 3 vets, no medics and a dt" is this conformable? Does this help the town? No. not worth addressing it was relevant to the discussion at the time



do I even have to bother rebutting why allowing people to hide their voteswitches is bad? Oh wait this is the guy that benefited from people voting for him at the very last second with no in thread justification. never mind.

and then he tunnels on Kav , I'm noticing a trend, 1 get tunnel kav, 2 get the assassin elected 3 tunnel kav somemore



I thought he was only going to run if he was mafia? Well lets deconstruction his campaign as well, I mean it can't be as bad as mine, right?

Let me sum it up "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want" well then thank god he didn't land pardoner. Well I'm sure glad that a player who says he isn't going to be held accountable for his actions landed the mayor.

he then spends 2 pages arguing the meaning of FoS. His response to being told he was overly agressive over a small issue? "build a bridge and get over it" I applaud his building of town spirit. Wonderful work, *that* is how you encourage new players



so being held accountable for your votes if you have three of them is being "manipulatable" right?
Why did people vote for someone who said that he wasn't going to take responsibility for his actions with a powerful role again?



I dont think I need to comment on this, do I?
then again he did say "townies who post a lot are likely to contradict themselves at least once" so I suppose he is cleared



these replies without answering the substance of an accusation always worry me, since its easy to say "lol" and not so easy to either justify your behavior or own up to your mistakes.

however his later attitude towards the assassin and his reaction to pandians claims agree with mine, which is positive.



His debating skills know no bounds. Seriously when a serious argument is presented this is *not* the appropriate reply.



I'm going to assume this was a joke post, because otherwise I have to question Dr.H's sanity, and that would be bad.




my behavior is obviously pro town, "I will do whatever the fuck I want if I get the pardon", my behavior is obviously pro town, I think theres a disconnect here.



This one is juicy, lets dismantle it, point one about the assassin had already been made, time and time again, but its good he includes it here, I agree with him. His second post about electing an assassin to an anti-town role is downright bad if he didn't want the mayor to be in the hands of the assassin and wanted to avoid the assassin game entirly, then why is he proposing the assassin as a pardoner.

I will not be held accountable for my votes is a little less pro-town then point one, I understand the "I'll vote for who I feel is scum" thats the duty of every townie mayor or not, what worries me is that he is setting out the groundwork for covering for a pardon with "I said I would be autonomous so I autonomously pardoned the guy you were convinced was scum, because I can"

The fact that he would be ok with pandian in a protected position after his stupid claim and after having sustained that Pandian sucks makes me wtf.

Dr.H seems to not want people to look for contradictions, which is interesting, I agree that townies often change their mind, thats the issue with imperfect information, but blatant contradictions on core issues are a sure sign of scum.

"I will disregard everything the town says completely, and to have pandain as pardoner so if he is DT he doesn't die. "

we go from pandian is probably lying and should be ignored to pandian is ok as pardoner, also I'm *still* going to ignore anything the town says.

Also note how thought he refers to how "worthless" the pardoner role is, when in reality it is a strongly anti town role



already setting up the groundwork for "oops", and look, it *was* "oops"



right... ok... again with this "see I wasn't 100% sure, but I was *interdependent*"



well, interesting thing with the ON lynch, huh? Also nice little accusation of tnkted, what did he flip again? Have you made a right call yet?



Oh goodie, another long post!

First of all he calls out my post as being good, which I have no comment on other than when Kav pointed out something as a good point Dr.H's reply was "no one cares"

I do agree with his question of "what is a plataform of substance?" I thought I had one, but apparently posting why you would make a good mayor is anti-town.

Oh look, he is already setting himself up to be able to lynch kav, nice to know he thought things out ahead of time. At least the town should have been able to figure out what was going to happen

Also his "thoughts" boil down to what I said earlier, lynching ON proves absolutely nothing, one way or another.



See, the part about kita makes sense, that was the reactions I was fishing for, both from kita and form the players around him. I find that Dr.H's reasoning for not using a blue list for argument on the basis that the mafia can mislead you to be wrong. The point of a blue list is to open discussion on the topic and increase the power of the blues, if the medic part of the list contains 6 people then maifa will likely try to hit outside of it, increasing the effectiveness of the medics (since the list effectively protected 6 people). This proved slightly flawed as the mafia shot into my list last night.



theres tunneling and theres tunneling, sustained aggression is not necessarily bad, irrationally tunneling is.



with no attached explanation of why he goes from a ON lynch to a Kav lynch... interesting



you know the generic advice he accused kav of posting. Yeah, this is an example of it.



when people are switching votes off of GM because of a "mafia bandwagon" in the first 24 hours of day 1 thats ok, no need to comment. When people suddenly start electing the assassin at the last minute thats not suspicious at all. Could say the same thing about the sudden switches back to you. It's all a bunch of WIFOM bullshit

And then he lynches Kav, after kav requests to be lynched...



Oh, no dont berate me for mis-lynching, I might just ragequit! forever! Goes hand in hand with "dont hold me accountable" and it seems to work too. No, I should be berated. I should not be called scum because I mislynched. Huge difference. I berated myself for that decision more than any of you ever will anyway.



any fingers of suspicion on me must be silenced! Although I agree ON failed to provide reasons


"I'm incredibly wary of anyone who goes out of their way to defame me." = I reserve the right to OMGUS anyone who questions my poor decisions.

TL:DR: Dr.H got himself elected on a funky vote switch, killed a town analyst and continues to support an assassin. He is supporting a know liar rather than doing what is reasonable and ran for mayor with the worst possible role to get in office, which is *also* unprovable until he dies.

Yeah, Dr.H is scum

On April 15 2011 10:38 Protactinium wrote:


I disagree. LSB is town. Until Coagulation flips red. Coagulation is THE lynch target of the day. Don't split the vote by voting LSB, that will just let mafia come in and switch the vote to a random townie.

On April 15 2011 10:43 GMarshal wrote:
Ok, I am going to try this one more time.

What we know from today is pretty clear.

FW has been caught lying of being a dt. His fake claim of his role was debunked and yet he is still being listened to. The general consensus is that he is indeed an assassin. Now. Why would an Assassin push to have someone killed? Because his only shot at winning is getting one lynched, and killing the other in the night. The person accused not only role claimed a blue role, He claimed a blue role easily proven.

Now for clarifications sake, and to point out the massive stupidity of the people reading and going “coag is deff mafia, the assassin says so.”



Now let us look at this very very carefully. FW has been caught lying. He has also shown to be tunneling a target (which is uncharacteristic of him). He also mentions the possibility of coag being the gf. Now. IF he was a dt, this option would never have to be described. He uses it as a convoluted method to attempt to prove himself.

Why, if he was a dt, would he even describe the potential of coag being the gf? He would know for a fact. But you ask yourself, why would I mention this? because he uses the example to prove occams razor. ISSUE BEING. He has been caught lying and fake claiming. The simplest explanation per Occam's razor is that he is scum/assassin. Town has no reason to lie. Especially with a power role such as dt.

If your still going "but but" think of it again. Since when would a "DT" in the hands of an experienced player such as FW create a convoluted plan that if he was not elected guarenteed he died. No matter what happens with this lynch, assassins are obligated to hit him. Town vigi's might hit him, mafia might hit him. No matter what, he dies. Who in their right mind, would operate on a plan thats only gain is to get in office. Factor in that he ran for Pardoner. A role that in the hands of an anti town player would lead to potential disaster.


Now, normally with all this evidence stacked against someone, you would LaL policy. But since the consensus is that he is an assassin, he gets to live (seriously the fuck?) based on him dying at night. Ok say he dies in the night, that still makes me wonder. Why are we lynching the target of a liar? The target who's alignment can be easily proven by a dt/vig. If he's legit, mafia have to waste shots shooting a veteran, if hes mafia he dies. However, lynching based on the word of a known liar / word of an anti town is simply stupid.

Now you would think this would lead to a day of scumhunting. Instead the people who are challenging this obviously anti town movement are viewed as scum. Are you guys seriously not following this? Step back and think this through. But now its too late for that. You have let a third party derail the thread for an entire day while getting no closer to actually lynching anyone.

Its up to me to save you from yourselves again. I'm not going to allow a lynch led by anti-town forces go through. No chance in hell. If you persist in this you leave me no choice. You wanted an interdependent mayor and pardoner, you got them, if town persists with this stupidity I will pardon coag, and see the assassin flip tonight, when he flips black you will thank me. I've discovered I'm tired of fighting for sheep. Become wolves or let them devour you.

On April 15 2011 10:43 Lemonwalrus wrote:

No one is allowed to PM. This is 3 people communicating outside of the game. I believe that this is cheating.

On April 15 2011 10:51 LSB wrote:

Don't pardon. Let coag die, it will green me and you, and red Flamewheel

On April 15 2011 10:50 GMarshal wrote:


I'm not letting the assassin win. Hang me if you must.

I ran on policy and principles. I will uphold those now.

FIGHT FOR THE TOWN!