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On February 02 2011 07:30 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:00 shannn wrote:On February 02 2011 06:54 Pandain wrote:
Honestly this is a bit wifom, but I think the music clue is way too obvious. Especially after LSB got a little "called out" for being a bit too obvious on the Carlos the Jackal thing, then having a music sheet be a clue for a musician? That's too obvious.
Furthormore originally I thought the youtube video was a good find, but its fan made and the other pictures don't relate to him really at all. Finally, on a non-clue standpoint, Dr. H is one of the few people I feel is really pro town. He voted Jackal early, warded me against trying to get someone else lynched, and overall has been pretty pro town.
But actually I think the clues might point to someone else: Q, from Startrek.
The first picture, which says "drop the bomb, exterminate them all." Q in several Star trek episodes, notably "Neverending Trial", said that Humanity should be destroyed. Usually he had a request, "Do this or be destroyed" but the basis is the same.
The second picture, with aliens, well that's pretty obvious. An obviously non human entity is killed by other humans. Note the strange creature is even holding what appears to be a laser gun.
As for the picture of tracks, in the snow. I think this might be related to him in that he could do anything. Such as teleport, turn invisible, and so forth. So when you see tracks but no person, that immediately pops into my mind.
The fourth picture is obvious as well. A magic card set, and Q can do things which appear as magic.
The fifth picture I believe is the red herring. It was set to cast suspicion most notably upon Dr. H.
I like that you cast suspicion on me. I'm not going to defend myself because there is nothing that I can gain by defending myself. I am Q I fit all clues no matter what. Day 1 clues I can fit them all. Day 2 I can fit them all. Like I said previously. Anything but I mean anything can be related to me. Everyone who is pointing their suspicion towards me is a suspect of being mafia. Why you ask? Simply because if I were to follow your own post I'd have this. On February 02 2011 06:54 Pandain wrote:
Honestly this is a bit wifom, but I think the music clue is way too obvious. Especially after LSB got a little "called out" for being a bit too obvious on the Carlos the Jackal thing, then having a music sheet be a clue for a musician? That's too obvious.
Except it really doesn't. Like last day really didn't fit you at all, besides that they both killed people/were bad. It fit Jackal like a key, and so does this day. And you could defend yourself every day, even if mafia, by saying "Well since my character can do anything, all clues can point towards me." When really they can't. Like the music clue, for instance.
For the music did you forget there is 1 false clue like LSB mentioned.
Q is omnipotent and can do everything in the universe. You mentioned it yourself
As for the picture of tracks, in the snow. I think this might be related to him in that he could do anything. Such as teleport, turn invisible, and so forth. So when you see tracks but no person, that immediately pops into my mind.
I will repeat this every time. Q can do anything as long as you just make a reason up like you just did about the snow and the footsteps. There is no connection other than I could possibly teleport/hover/turn invisible.
Doesn't this basically applies to the music instance as well? With just any reason how lousy or how good it is like Q can play the piano or Q can become that sheet of paper. Any reason is good enough to fit Q.
Sorry but unless LSB says explicitly NO it's not about Star Trek then I will fit the bill everytime.
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@pandain
Oh yea if I were mafia I'd be saying the same thing now. Because it's that easy having Q as your character.
You're posting very contradictory. First you say that not everything can point to me like that music sheet but then you post something like a picture of tracks in the snow MIGHT be related to me because I can do everything like turning invisible, teleport etc.
Vague post of yours and I am eagerly inclined to see what you will flip at.
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On February 02 2011 08:25 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 07:00 shannn wrote:
I like that you cast suspicion on me. I'm not going to defend myself because there is nothing that I can gain by defending myself. I am Q I fit all clues no matter what. Day 1 clues I can fit them all. Day 2 I can fit them all.
Like I said previously. Anything but I mean anything can be related to me.
This is very poor reasoning. Granted, Q has the ability to do anything and everything, but the things Pandain pointed out (with the exception of tracks in the snow) have to do more with his character (the things he has said and done) and less with his abilities. For instance, showing an alien creature surrounded by spacemen is a very strong link to Q's character and the experiences he had. It's WIFOM, but saying "Q can be and do anything" is as much a way for you to deflect suspicion as it is to put it on you.
True but I'm not saying that I am the perfect match or best match at all times.I am saying that I am able to fit all of those and fit all of those clues. Else everyone would be suspecting me 
Every clue can point to me but it doesn't mean I'm always the best matched. Look at DrH. He has a suspicion that I might be mafia but Carlos at day 1 fits him better. This is why it's easy to target me as mafia. It doesn't have to be perfect just a link should be good enough. Which is my entire point.
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On February 03 2011 03:19 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 03:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:09 chaoser wrote:
Bad town play, whether they are mafia or not, should be punished. The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Kenpachi is playing badly as town or if he's mafia, regardless of how he acted in previous games. I'm going to stick my vote on him. If we excuse his play as "just a bad townie" then we screw ourselves over the day he's actually a mafia.
As for the clues, I think when it comes down to it, it's between Cubed and Dr.H. Between the two of them, I'd rather lynch Dr.H cause if he's red then we have a connection between him and Kenpachi; plus i get to feel smart about figuring out their plan of bussing Jackal on day 1. there is no connection between me and kenpachi i just dont want to lynch him unless a clue points at him why cant you understand what im saying when i mean analysis is inconclusive in light of how terrible he is. his play in this game is directly in line with town play. its like lynching bill murray because he spammed or lynching NB for asking a dumb question. also "lynching for information" is a scum play anyway. You look worse and worse. Condescending play is condescending. Something mafia would pull when they're in a bind. There's no need for it if you're town. I've done it before as mafia, and I've seen others do it as well. When Cubein flips green, you do realize you're on the chopping block right? If he flips red, well mafia should just give up at that point since it's an almost full town.
Or DrH and Cubed are both green or red which is still unlikely but it can happen.
In any case the best way to move forward today is if we lynch either of those 2.
Like you also said, if Cubed does flip green then it's most likely that the other is red and in which Kenpachi is automatically solved as well.
So by going by this logic and my analysis of Cubed and DrH and the circumstances we're in I'm voting against Cubed.
##Vote CubEdIn
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On February 03 2011 03:57 chaoser wrote:
##Vote CubEdIn
Don't you need to unvote first? You voted for Kenpachi first and I don't see any unvote. What does this mean LSB?
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Hmm it doesn't say anything in the rules about unvoting except that the correct vote is ##vote name. So I guess the vote is legit.
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On February 03 2011 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 03:43 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 03:19 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 03:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:09 chaoser wrote:
Bad town play, whether they are mafia or not, should be punished. The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Kenpachi is playing badly as town or if he's mafia, regardless of how he acted in previous games. I'm going to stick my vote on him. If we excuse his play as "just a bad townie" then we screw ourselves over the day he's actually a mafia.
As for the clues, I think when it comes down to it, it's between Cubed and Dr.H. Between the two of them, I'd rather lynch Dr.H cause if he's red then we have a connection between him and Kenpachi; plus i get to feel smart about figuring out their plan of bussing Jackal on day 1. there is no connection between me and kenpachi i just dont want to lynch him unless a clue points at him why cant you understand what im saying when i mean analysis is inconclusive in light of how terrible he is. his play in this game is directly in line with town play. its like lynching bill murray because he spammed or lynching NB for asking a dumb question. also "lynching for information" is a scum play anyway. You look worse and worse. Condescending play is condescending. Something mafia would pull when they're in a bind. There's no need for it if you're town. I've done it before as mafia, and I've seen others do it as well. When Cubein flips green, you do realize you're on the chopping block right? If he flips red, well mafia should just give up at that point since it's an almost full town. Or DrH and Cubed are both green or red which is still unlikely but it can happen. In any case the best way to move forward today is if we lynch either of those 2. Like you also said, if Cubed does flip green then it's most likely that the other is red and in which Kenpachi is automatically solved as well. So by going by this logic and my analysis of Cubed and DrH and the circumstances we're in I'm voting against Cubed. ##Vote CubEdIn wtf these assumptions are terrible why is it "unlikely" that both me and cubedin are green? that's stupid. why does knowing my alignment have anything to do with kenpachi? i don't really understand why anyone would think any of these things.
So by reading your reply it's smart to actually say that both of you are red? I don't know your role. Your discussion between Cubed and you might as well be a plot to make certain that one of you won't be suspected as mafia but there might as well be a scenario that that the clues point to someone else and you 2 are so concentrated on each other that people have missed the key theme of the clues of LSB hence 2 greens could also be possible.
As for knowing your alignment with Kenpachi it's simple.
You agree that Kenpachi is awful as town with chaoser but I as non experienced player do not know this and neither does chaoser seeing upon his comments. You cannot base someone's role on his past because people can just as well use this to camouflage his role in the future. You can use this knowledge as mafia (if you were) and just say he's stupid and always acts like this.
Hence the reasoning of mine that Kenpachi is tied with your role. It doesn't mean it will be for certain but atleast for a high probability that what you think about Kenpachi is right if you are town. If you aren't town then everything you said/defended people means they're an ally of you.
Besides I didn't vote on you but the reaction on your part makes me think I should reconsider. But for now I'll stick with Cubed. You said it yourself. He isn't showing any signs of mafia and if you were you'd act to it but we don't know what your role is hence we cannot go by your words.
Do you understand my reasoning now?
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On February 03 2011 04:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
##Unvote CubEdIn
##Vote Chaoser
I feel that this is gonna be a youngminii situation with me and CubEdIn. Chaoser is pretty transparent and the mafia would be too desperate to bus. Chaoser played kinda scummily in Salem Mafia though (where he was green) but not this bad.
What is the youngminii situation?
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Hmm LSB said the picture of day 2 is irrelevant. Does he mean the beethoven thing or the whole picture itself?
I kind of used the picture as evidence because it's a picture of an arcade game which links to Mortal Kombat (origin of MK is arcade which Raiden is a character from).
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On February 03 2011 10:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 04:49 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:43 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 03:19 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 03:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 03 2011 03:09 chaoser wrote:
Bad town play, whether they are mafia or not, should be punished. The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Kenpachi is playing badly as town or if he's mafia, regardless of how he acted in previous games. I'm going to stick my vote on him. If we excuse his play as "just a bad townie" then we screw ourselves over the day he's actually a mafia.
As for the clues, I think when it comes down to it, it's between Cubed and Dr.H. Between the two of them, I'd rather lynch Dr.H cause if he's red then we have a connection between him and Kenpachi; plus i get to feel smart about figuring out their plan of bussing Jackal on day 1. there is no connection between me and kenpachi i just dont want to lynch him unless a clue points at him why cant you understand what im saying when i mean analysis is inconclusive in light of how terrible he is. his play in this game is directly in line with town play. its like lynching bill murray because he spammed or lynching NB for asking a dumb question. also "lynching for information" is a scum play anyway. You look worse and worse. Condescending play is condescending. Something mafia would pull when they're in a bind. There's no need for it if you're town. I've done it before as mafia, and I've seen others do it as well. When Cubein flips green, you do realize you're on the chopping block right? If he flips red, well mafia should just give up at that point since it's an almost full town. Or DrH and Cubed are both green or red which is still unlikely but it can happen. In any case the best way to move forward today is if we lynch either of those 2. Like you also said, if Cubed does flip green then it's most likely that the other is red and in which Kenpachi is automatically solved as well. So by going by this logic and my analysis of Cubed and DrH and the circumstances we're in I'm voting against Cubed. ##Vote CubEdIn wtf these assumptions are terrible why is it "unlikely" that both me and cubedin are green? that's stupid. why does knowing my alignment have anything to do with kenpachi? i don't really understand why anyone would think any of these things. So by reading your reply it's smart to actually say that both of you are red? I don't know your role. Your discussion between Cubed and you might as well be a plot to make certain that one of you won't be suspected as mafia but there might as well be a scenario that that the clues point to someone else and you 2 are so concentrated on each other that people have missed the key theme of the clues of LSB hence 2 greens could also be possible. As for knowing your alignment with Kenpachi it's simple. You agree that Kenpachi is awful as town with chaoser but I as non experienced player do not know this and neither does chaoser seeing upon his comments. You cannot base someone's role on his past because people can just as well use this to camouflage his role in the future. You can use this knowledge as mafia (if you were) and just say he's stupid and always acts like this. Hence the reasoning of mine that Kenpachi is tied with your role. It doesn't mean it will be for certain but atleast for a high probability that what you think about Kenpachi is right if you are town. If you aren't town then everything you said/defended people means they're an ally of you. Besides I didn't vote on you but the reaction on your part makes me think I should reconsider. But for now I'll stick with Cubed. You said it yourself. He isn't showing any signs of mafia and if you were you'd act to it but we don't know what your role is hence we cannot go by your words. Do you understand my reasoning now? Alright I wanted to respond to this earlier but I had class. I'd like it if everyone carefully read this and thought about this (what I'm going to say.) 1. Yes, it is reasonable that both CubEdIn and myself are red. It's unlikely though. This means I already bussed Jackal and am now bussing CubEdIn. I like using the bus but that's just too risky. I like to play really risky styles as mafia but that's too much. It's not an impossibility. I am not "innocent" if CubEdIn is red. It looks good for me but it is not proof. The only proof is death in this game. 2. Yes you cannot base someones role on their past. That's my point. I'm saying Kenpachi's posts are not "pro-town" or "pro-scum". I can not read them at all. They're inconclusive. Let's look at the most obvious example of bad play, NB. In every game as town NB contributes nothing to the discussion. He just asks questions, says "oh im gonna read this and put my thoughts later ok" and things like this. This looks wishy washy, like he's making excuses for inactivity. He does this as town because he is bad, doesn't or can't analyse posts, etc. In every game as mafia NB does the exact same thing. While it is very noticeable when Ace contributes bad/fake analysis, distracts town, acts wishy washy, jumps on easy bandwagons it isn't the same for Kenpachi. Kenpachi will do that as town and he will do it as mafia. My opinion on his posts is inconclusive. I don't want to lynch him because it's just a coinflip. The other idea is that if Chaoser says "Player X is really scummy" and I say "No they aren't" then that is the same as a scum defense. That isn't a very strong connection to him. Town players defend other town players constantly and that sort of thing is only worth talking about after the fact. If Chaoser defends others, I don't really care until he's dead and i know his role. If he's mafia THEN that becomes important. But I really don't know what to say. I keep saying it but no one listens. There is little point in analysing kenpachi's post behavior right now because this is how he plays across the board early on in the game. Look at him in Salem Mafia Day 2 or Pokemafia. It's the same shit and he was town both times. Maybe some of the behaviors are "scummy" when applied to a large player group but they don't really apply to him. That's just the way it is. Until clues point at him, I wouldn't even consider lynching him. Because post analysis is LOST on players like Kenpachi and Coagulation and NB. We got Coag in Insane Mafia because he was DT checked. Then I was able to figure out Pandain was mafia too but town let him live for some reason. Also this is not true that mafia only defend mafia. Honestly, it's most common that mafia IGNORE other mafia completely. Or even attack other mafia aggressively to stage disagreement. I see mafia attackin eachother or ignoring eachother more often than I see them defending. Go read my Experimental Mini Mafia game to see that happen. Read Salem Mafia early game and see how mafia just avoid talking to each other altogether and never refer to eachother by name in posts. It is extremely rare that you see this kind of early comradarie. If Kenpachi was mafia and I was mafia it would be retarded for him to come forth with this worship of me calling me his favorite poster or whatever. It would be smart if he was mafia/i'm town, since if he died the remaining mafia could push suspicion on me easily. Mafia are looking for opportunities to turn a bad lynch into a worse one or a good lynch into one that hurts the town. Mafia defend and attach themselves to townies to throw off direction in the case of a lynch. All that speculation you and chaoser are doing is pure pure WIFOM. It has nothing to do with goals, with contributions, or anything that matters. Kenpachi is, unfortunately, exempt from that kind of analysis because he doesn't contribute anything even if he is town and just spams mindlessly. That's the player that Kenpachi is and ignoring that is gonna result in another easy green lynch for the mafia. That's just the way it is. Has anyone else played in a game where town lynched green Kenpachi because he posted the same sort of things? Am I the only one with any sort of memory? It seems to me like Chaosers memory is built around supporting his case which is scummy.
Yes I know what you're getting at. I am ignoring Kenpachi. I'm going with clues now and that's Cubed. You still think Cubed is mafia just basing on clues?
You changed your mind based off of chaoser's post behavior which is fine by me. You have the experience to do that but I don't. So I can't trust either of you what both of you're saying. I can only continue where I was which is basing my opinion by clues and if I make a mistake I'll have to correct myself next time to learn from that.
Chaoser's play does seem scummy now. He has voted for Cubed while at first he went for Kenpachi. He might be just joining the bandwagon to avoid suspicion combined with the fact that he said if cube flips green then flip me which makes it WIFOM if cube flips red it would make Chaoser seem green which is still not conclusive like you pointed out which is where the danger lies atm.
Especially when I said if Cubed is red then you and Kenpachi are green and the other way around too and he switched votes after that which makes me think that if Cubed is red then Chaoser needs to get analyzed more because of his previous actions and post behavior.
In any case we'll only know what Cubed is which will be conclusive and the rest not. So any statements about X is red then Y is not etc will have to be ignored by everyone.
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Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed.
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On February 03 2011 11:47 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed. I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him.
You fail to read chaoser. Your name mentioned there in my post means those guys voted on you.
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On February 03 2011 11:51 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:48 shannn wrote:On February 03 2011 11:47 chaoser wrote:On February 03 2011 11:44 shannn wrote:
Everyone voted.
Everyone except kenpachi(chaoser)/cubed(drh)/drh(chaoser) voted for cubed. I voted for Cubedin, don't know what you're talking about. I voted for Kenpachi before and I still think he's mafia but getting cubedin lynched gives town info to help them make the decision/see that kenpachi/drh is mafia so I voted for him. You fail to read chaoser. Your name mentioned there in my post means those guys voted on you. ah, my bad, read it wrong. And pandain didn't vote at all.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187599¤tpage=15#296
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On February 03 2011 11:55 LSB wrote:
Well I'm too busy to do a votecount, so I'll take your word for it
Cubedin is the one being lynched. it's 6 votes for him and 2 for chaoser and 1 for DrH.
CubedIn:
- me
- chaoser
- node
- Pandain
- Gmarshall
- darmousseh
Chaoser:
- Kenpachi
- DrH
DrH:
- CubedIn
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And that sux about cubed lol.
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I don't get all of this puzzle mafia thing lol.
So if I understand this right.
The end result will reveal a name but we don't know what side he is on right?
So if you pair him up to another person you'll know what the other side is too?
This is so confusing lol.
I don't get at the part of darmousseh what happens when both are town.
From my understanding it's if no corruption means we'll get a mafia name? Else we get a townie name and then we figure out what the other is after we lynch the townie?
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I think I understand the plan finally. That does sound bullet proof as far as I can tell.
But my only question is why would you not use 2 big suspects instead of you and node?
This way we'll find out faster who is mafia or not right?
I'll go with your plan unless someone finds a hole in that plan.
##vote darmousseh
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Oh never mind. Its better to pick 2 most likely town members because then you'll get a mafia name right away but when you lynch that person and he isn't mafia then we get you or node as mafia right?
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Yea I like that plan of yours darmousseh. At worst case scenario we'll lose 2 townies to get 1 mafia at the least or at the best case possible mafia right away.
I will volunteer to prove I'm town so I can go instead of node if you want. Because I'm sure you're town and I'm town 100% this would mean when we get a name that person should be 100% mafia.
If he isn't mafia then lynch me first to prove that I'm town and you're mafia in that case.
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Chaoser is right and message will only be corrupt when the mafia and town are equal or when mafia members are more than the town holding the message.
So if 1 mafia and 1 town has both the same message. This message would be corrupt.
If there is 1 mafia and 2 town with same message this message would not be corrupt.
Darmousseh's plan basically guaranteeds a mafia lynch within 3 days at worst (if darmousseh is mafia else it's within 2 days).
His plan needs 1 sacrifice as a backup plan.
You need 2 most likely town members to have a direct mafia lynch. If someone thinks he's town he should volunteer with darmousseh making it a guarantee that we get 1 mafia lynch AND we know that the 2 volunteers will be town 100%. This results in mafia able to kill them at night but we'll lynch 1 mafia right away making it a 6-1 situation which is the perfect result for town and at worst case scenario a 4-2 situation at night 3 going 4-1 at day 4.
Darmousseh's plan is the best one so far and as far as I can see no hole in it's plan. So everyone not voting is already an indication of being mafia or just really stupid townie.
Mafia voting for darmousseh's plan means they'll get lynched within a day or 2 so it's a win/win for town.
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EPT
