EPTTL Mafia XXXV
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote: WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones. SUMMARY 1.Contribute without spamming 2.Be active, make well thought out posts. 3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now. On December 27 2010 11:51 Pandain wrote: ##Vote: Mr. Wiggles Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Vigs can only hit on or AFTER night 2 | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is. I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote: EBWOP It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then? I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive. There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive. -People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute." @2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up. @3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself. By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions. As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote: I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote: What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote: Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote: Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing. my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Annul's second reason on p.18 insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
In the beginning of the game, I focus heavily on the framer role because that is the only difference in this game than the other 5 mafia games I played in the past. With nothing else to talk about, why not address how the framer role will affect the game and how should dts and vigs play differently. I still stay by my opinion that dts should never check the posters like LSB or Annul because they are the best target to be framed. Vigs can only shoot after night 2 and their shot are not wasted if stack. It really depend on if we need the extra kill at that time which a lot of mafia game need at that time. Remember the excuse of "I am not mafia, dt can check me and prove it" will probably not work in time game. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Annul's first analysis on LSB being mafia is on based on the fact that LSB had many bad/meaningless posts. If you look at posts prior, there are discussions but there are also spamming from others. If Annul is mafia and they want LSB dead, then why would they use not very good reason like spamming as their main reason to lynch LSB. Annul also gave out another reason on p. 18 his insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist In this game, there are many inactives. I do not think that there is no inactive in mafia's team. Annul is right about scumhunting is better than inactives pressuring because scumhunting provides reason for lynches. Pressuring inactives is not as good because the main reason for it is we don't have to deal with inactive town in the future. I definitely favor killing mafia now over having a better composed town in the future. LSB also pointed out that Annul is posting the analyze on him to be used as a reference later to make himself look good and Annul really want to slip by with his post. If Annul really want to slip by, then why would he let LSB know that he will be posting an analysis on LSB 1 minute after LSB had just posted? If Annul want to slip by, then why would he choose LSB to analyze if he don't want any respond back? Annul would be better off if he choose to analyze a weaker player if he just want to make a long post to make himself look good. Now in LSB's case, it is really hard to find flaws in him because he is such a careful player. One reason that I find LSB scummy if that he is saying he is a blue when he is in big danger of being lynched. This seems to be happen in every game when a mafia is being lynched. I don't remember a game I played where a mafia is being lynched and he claims as vanilla townie. I don't have any reason that LSB is being mafia as of now. I'll post more if I find any after I reread some posts. LSB said he can prove his innocence on day3, but this is also an excuse I seen many mafia who are being lynch used. We also can not easily clear LSB with a dt check. I will vote LSB, base on the fact that I don't see better lynch. Also by lynching LSB, we do get some information on other posters based on their stand points. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
I remember I seen them before but can you disprove by showing games where an active mafia is lynched on day1 and they did not say they can prove their innocence. In addition, find a game where a mafia being lynched and they claim vanilla townie. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
But wtf Pandain. i am 99% sure he's mafia, but there's really no harm in waiting just one night just to be 100% sure. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
I didn't switch my vote off of LSB even I said I don't see good evidence of LSB being mafia is because the people voting for LSB are mostly experience players and people voting for Brocket are mostly newer players except LSB. At that time, I don't believe that mafia are stacked with those experience players who are voting to lynch LSB so I assume at least there was not a huge mafia bandwagon to save LSB. I was also afraid of the mass mafia bandwagon voting for a lurker like Brocket in order the save LSB. This is the reason I didn't switch my vote. I don't believe that Insanious is mafia. Insanious was super active throughout later part of day1 to explain why lynching LSB is a bad idea. He was still giving out explanation when the vote was LSB 10 and Brocket 8. I like to think that LSB is like a cake that the mafia really want to have. It would be stupid for a mafia to save LSB to make himself look good. Also, since mafia know LSB is not red, they know it is likely that LSB is a Blue like he claimed. This is another reason why mafia don't want to save LSB just to make one of them look good. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
With 4 highly experience town died already, we really need to take advantage of double lynch. I fear that more experience town will die on night 2. I don't want double lynch to benefit the mafia in the late game when there is an inactive, indecisive town. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
We have 2 double lynch total in the game. As the game continues, we will get more information on who to lynch. But we are too many losing experience players too soon. Mafia will have an easier time to defer lynch when we have an inactive, indecisive town. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On December 31 2010 04:24 Pandain wrote: GGQ 4. Meapak_Ziphh 5. Brocket 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 15. ShoCkeyy 17. ilovejonn 19. Orgolove 23. GeorgeClooney 24. d3_crescentia 25. Tevo 27. Soulfire 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn 30. ~OpZ~ These are the people who need to contribute more. Lyching Insanious is a horrible idea. For one, why would mafia redirect a lynch away from a blue. Now, gaining town cred is important, but why would Insanious not just go afk during that period, which would've been far better. Furthormore, he has been posting ALOT, constatnly trying to generate discussion. Mafia don't want that, they want discussion to stagnate. Finally we don't want to lynch the super actives just yet, especially when we don't think they're scum. From this list, I personally want to hear more from Orglove and OpZ. I know they played many mafia games before and they are also very hard to analysis because they don't give too many analysis on the game. Please tell us what you think so far in the game and who you think is suspicious. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Also, annul was very active in the lynching of LSB. After night 1, we lost many veteran players but annul is still alive. If he is town, I thought he would try to redeem himself. This hasn't happened. I am also curious of annul's reason for lynch Mr.Zergling. I don't remember when he expressed his reason to lynch Mr.Zergling and a veteran player should at least give explanation for his voting. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
There is only like 6 hours left before the vote end. Why didn't we defended him earlier before a bandwagon on him is established. | ||
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LunarDestiny
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I also believe that if you lynched someone based on reasons you provided. If the reasons make sense to you, regardless of the outcome where that person you lynched is town or mafia, the decision you made is correct because the same play style will get you a mafia next time. After LSB's death, I expected you to redeem yourself by hunting a mafia down. But now, you are unvoting and voting without giving explanation. That is the reason that I am voting for you. I think you are a mafia who refuses to contribute. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
I'll ask you another question: Can you explain why you voted for Mr.Zergling? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 02 2011 07:51 annul wrote: but really, now that you have your reason for my voting (which should have been blatantly obvious), does that mean that isnt true anymore? Yes, this is my reason. If a skilled player acted without a logical reason why he acted in such a way, then I believe that player is mafia. Good town players are supposed to help town, they should not act in ways that do not benefit town. On the other hand, good mafia players are trying to act in a way to make mafia win, sometimes they are acting in ways that benefit mafia and can't explain it to town. Why would you think that no one will listen to you after LSB is lynched? A lot of us share similar responsibility that LSB was mislynched. | ||
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LunarDestiny
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I don't expect you to respond anytime soon as both you and your "ghost writers" (a term created by a person I forgot) must be present to help make your analysis good. | ||
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LunarDestiny
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On January 02 2011 12:27 Mr.Zergling wrote: First of all, I have no "ghost writers", all posts made are composed by me. If it comes across as me being unsure in a post, then I probably was. Also, as I have said before, my general tone and alertness changes with sleep/caffeine content. I think it was Barundar who called me out on quoting other people as reasons for my votes. I was quoting other people to explain my voting reasons, because those were the posts that convinced me to vote in such a manner. The accusation of me was already done, and maybe annul thought that with his vote and Barundar's analysis he would be able to start a counter bandwagon on me. I think he knew that he was screwed. Explain to me why didn't annul, who was being pressured by many, didn't take the chance to get out of being lynch. A active mafia who was to be lynch will do all he can to escape. I afford him a question to make himself look more town. He could at least give some reasons why he voted for you. He can even create some bullshit lies about why you are mafia (a desperate mafia will take this risk). He just brush off my question entirely. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 02 2011 12:28 Mr.Zergling wrote: Also, I am a vanilla townie This is irrelevant and not the style of writing that you composed for the contribute you made in this game. However, this post is shortly after your semi detailed post which is understandable. By irrelevant, I mean that a vanilla townie will try to absorb a mafia hit, especially since it is night. If you are mafia, you are doing the same thing annul was doing before he died. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 02 2011 13:03 Mr.Zergling wrote: I can't answer this, I'm not reading annul's mind. Pressuring me hard huh. I am not expecting you to read annul's mind and explain why he didn't accuse you. That is my logic of why you are mafia. I want you to point out the flaws in my logic. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 02 2011 13:17 Mr.Zergling wrote: There is essentially no flaw to point out in that logic, except for I think annul kind of gave up,, as evidenced by his last couple posts I meant to add that to my semi-detailed post, just to make it clear that I am not claiming a blue role, and thus you are free to lynch me if you want without much loss to the town. There is no reason for Annul to give up. The votes for him and Orgolove are very close. He even try explaining why he sudden went lurking after his mislynch of LSB. Again, I gave him a chance to save himself. As the godfather, I don't think he would give up since losing the godfather is a huge blow to the mafia. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 02 2011 14:13 Mr.Zergling wrote: EBWOP: You are still asking me why I think annul would not have taken that lifeline. The thing is, I don't know. It doesn't make any sense to me either. So are you saying that my logic has no flaw and you can not think of a reason why annul acted the way he did? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 04 2011 11:38 seRapH wrote: We are not missing KP. I had assumed that there were 6 mafia, since we had 30 players and the KP was 3 for the first day. Didn't realize that the number wasn't released, but I still believe that four are left. In any case, last night definitely required either 3 night hits or 2 night hits and a roleblock. Since one of the two possibilities does not require Opz to be vigi, I do not see how you can be so sure that he's confirmed. If there were 3 people dead from last night this would be happening very differently, but because only two people actually died I refuse to blindly assume that Opz is confirmed. Opz is a confirmed vig unless another person claims to be a vig who used night action on RoL or Node. I don't think this part "2 night hits and a roleblock" is a possible answer to night 2's hit. I think you are just to say that mafia roleblocked RoL and used 2 night kill on RoL and Node. Look at roleblocker's description: Mafia Roleblocker Once per night, you may send in a PM detailing a person you would like to block. That person will be notified that they were blocked, and if the person being blocked has a night action, he or she will not be able to use it. Please note that this ability only pertains to active actions. Passive abilities, such as the Veteran's extra lives, cannot be blocked by mafia. This suggests that RoL the veteran can not be roleblocked and killed by 1 KP. So unless another person step up and claims to be a vig who used night action on night 2 on RoL or Node, Opz is a confirmed vig. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
There is not a good reason behind this vote. I played two games with darth and in both games, he contributed. Ignoring Caller's Third Kingdom game... (that game didn't make sense) In TL Mafia XXVI Darth epicly raped me and made me think he is town 85% of the game (I had two games of experience at that time). Although he is mafia in that game, he was active and made very good posts on people he analyzed. He played very different in this game so I voted for him to see how he would defend himself. Darth did very little to defend himself and that is making me unsure of my vote. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 04 2011 12:08 ~OpZ~ wrote: I like how all of you have posted that and no one is claiming to me. That's nice. How about I (we?) wait until tomorrow and do that? I want to be safe. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 04 2011 16:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: lol if you're afraid of looking red because I flip red then jump on board my bandwagon, we're serving cheap beer 99¢ nachos and the dance floor is open till 2 am. If you are honestly that afraid of me flipping red then there's no better time than now to vote Meapak_Ziphh and lock in your townie guarantee at the phenomenally low price of one green. But seriously dude, to you and all the others who say I look desperate, would I be that desperate to call out me whole scum team? If you don't think these people are scum then by golly who do you think is? Aside from me of course. Actually this goes to anyone, do you have a better target than any of these four I named? Wow Meapak, are you drunk or something? Because this post makes no sense and you seem very pissed off | ||
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LunarDestiny
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LunarDestiny
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http://www.teamliquid.net/irc/ (channel is "#BambooPalace") Or you have post what you think on this thread? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
I am go after him next. Darth, you be given a chance by town, hope you redeem yourself. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 05 2011 14:39 ~OpZ~ wrote: ok...Good point Darth. I just got to read the thread. -_- I want to clarify. PANDAIN and Barundar, are not confirmed. So I don't think anyone should claim to them just yet. OpZ, you got to step up and lead the town if you don't want unconfirmed people leading it. There are a lot of trust placed on Pandain because of your absense. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On January 06 2011 04:06 TheMango wrote: so seraph and shockeyy should be our lynch targets as per OpZ? I'll rather have vigs shoot them. I don't want them to be nightkilled without making the shot. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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LunarDestiny
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Sad ghost. | ||
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LunarDestiny
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Those are my questions. | ||
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LunarDestiny
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