BC and RoL: Salem Mafia

On November 22 2010 12:33 Glasse wrote:
with tl your birthdays are longer!
yay!

On November 27 2010 01:20 Ace wrote:
god damn I shoulda read the OP. Why are PMs allowed in a learning game? v_v

On November 27 2010 14:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I was sent this earlier by protactinium



There isn't a traitor in this game for one. Is he trying to catch me off guard and make me say something like "oh no i'm not the traitor I'm the X"?

I'm assuming we is him and Flamewheel. This PM caught me off guard a bit since I was never accused of making things up and I'd like to know what exactly he thinks I'm lying about.

I'm going to put the pressure on him in the open to give us something to discuss at least.

On November 28 2010 10:17 Aeres wrote:

Actually, now that Kenpachi reposted it, I'm getting brain tumors over how badly Pandain butchered the word "suspiciously". >_< I'm gonna bleed out my eyes.

But yeah, it's certainly odd that you're so concerned about an analysis that might lead to incriminating you as scum. Perhaps you have something to hide?

On November 28 2010 10:20 aidnai wrote:


Noted: Annul has claimed blue. Interesting.

On November 28 2010 21:48 Scaramanga wrote:

ebwop and how am i whiny? by pointing out the problem with drh's list?

On November 29 2010 01:51 Scaramanga wrote:

Well my aim was to ruin the game for others, even up the ledger, so i guess my goal was met

On November 29 2010 11:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
A town circle is growing. I'm not sure exactly what is safe to say in public yet. Any info/pm's you have from Ghrur could you please post them in the town and/or PM them to me?

On November 29 2010 12:10 SouthRawrea wrote:
Alright I'm not entire sure of the legitimacy of DrH's town circle but I've had a DT come to me with my correct role so I will act as his mouthpiece for the remainder of this game. Basically in PM land at this point we've been looking for a secure way of connecting with DrH's circle without putting risk to both groups.

On November 29 2010 12:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i'm starting to know you? uh what does that mean exactly

On December 01 2010 00:52 Amber[LighT] wrote:


You are aware that I'm more-or-less confirmed as town aligned, right? I don't think voting for me is going to work. I don't think anyone in their right mind should vote for me more than considering abstaining. You want me (and everybody) to use my power to lynch as much as I can, but you're throwing away your vote by even hinting at voting for me.

Do you see the huge gaping hole in your logic?

Why would you vote to lynch me? Because I'm abstaining? You are aware that the mafia have probably already thrown their votes in. It wouldn't surprise me if 1-2 mafia members have yet to throw out a vote, but they know what they're doing.

You don't want to settle on a nice easy bandwagon, but instead want to focus on me? You want to confirm the PM I received? It's going to do nothing to benefit the town, so maybe you should focus on someone who's actually got a paper trail to follow.

By lynching Kenpachi we obtain significant information about the entire day. And you don't want to settle on that? Guess we should just vote based upon post count! Kill inactives first because that method works flawlessly. Yes gunning for people who don't reveal information is the best usage case for day lynches. Don't divert the town, you're looking scummy.

On December 01 2010 01:36 Coagulation wrote:
lol Jcarl

"i dont like how amber keeps abstaining" - as he is "effectively abstaining" his vote.

On December 01 2010 02:36 annul wrote:
btw, it goes against my mafia DNA to "give up" - i am only explaining why i am not so active in this one right now

when it gets deeper in the game if i am still here i will do my part, for sure.

On December 01 2010 10:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

lynching for info is a retarded policy that only mafia ever attempt to implement. in fact i feel it's one of the strongest scumtells since I do it almost every time I'm mafia (until BC told me it makes me too obvious hehe)

and that's not true. a lot of people have been discussing DTA and people who defended him seriously are going to get a serious reevaluation from me.

On December 01 2010 10:48 Eiii wrote:


Why are we assuming that if there's another medic ken can't be medic? It might be a reasonable assumption but it's not something to bet a blue on.

Honestly, I don't like how this is playing out. Ken has a clear lead, there's a last-second push to a townie thanks to ken's medic claim and some help from a few others, and now you're advocating that DTs shouldn't check him, because you say that another medic claiming to you proves ken isn't what he say he is.

It's tough to know anything for sure in this game, but if a DT checks ken and he turns up red I'm sure something'll happen.

On December 01 2010 11:23 Glasse wrote:
oh god i missed quite a lot, i am also very sad you guys switched to darth

oh well, i went 6-0 in my badminton tournament if anybody cares, brb gonna read more carefully

On December 01 2010 11:32 Eiii wrote:


I might be behind on this or just clueless in general, but I'm more concerned with how DrH can be trusted. I know setting up a circle and doing what he does isn't scummy at all, but if he's the elder (and if he's mafia, he's the elder for sure) then he's put himself in a fantastic position to really fuck town up.

On December 01 2010 11:56 Eiii wrote:
I really like the idea of a mass claim-- but I think it should wait until we have someone who's 99% sure to be town. DrH has only his actions going for him, but he knows that as well as we do. Mass claiming to a mafia would, as far as I can tell, lose the game for us immediately.

On December 01 2010 12:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
btw southrawrea has already been confirmed by a dt, you can roleclaim to him

i've been sharing literally everything with southrawrea and the dt. there is no information i have that they don't.

On December 01 2010 12:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
what happened to the modkilled players? aren't there like 100 fucking people who got modkilled?

replacements better be active. inactivity, if anything, will screw this town.

also would anyone be opposed to me telling you all WHO roleclaimed ot me but not what role they gave me?

On December 01 2010 12:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

I'm for it. I'm town aligned, it'll do no harm to tell me what you are.

I already know who so many people are that the smallest slip-up would be the end for any faking mafia. This means every mafia will probably fake vet or townie, but even that is poisonous for them.

The problem is it has to be to me or SouthRawrea and putting all your eggs in one basket is a very risky play. If someone else who wasn't me was in this position I'd be reluctant unless I was as convinced they were town as I am for, say, Amber[Light]

On December 01 2010 22:07 SouthRawrea wrote:


I don't quite understand what needs to be confirmed but yeah I was dt checked N1 and DocH has been sharing his info with me. (Be back in about 8 hours TT.TT)

On December 02 2010 01:00 Coagulation wrote:
amber is pretty legit.
not 100% confirmed but close enough.

On December 03 2010 00:18 CubEdIn wrote:


And focus on who? Switch to Dr.H?

He currently holds a lot of information on this game. I didn't ask people to claim to him, but they did. Now, we go with the flow. We need to put a little faith into Dr.H, or admit he is Mafia and that he knows most of the blue roles, which means that even if we get him, the town is screwed.

Now, also consider the fact that we need someone who will gather up more votes then whoever wants to lynch Dr.H. I doubt this will happen in time.

Give the town a better target. Not you in particular, but anyone!

On December 04 2010 10:54 Pandain wrote:


Rule number one:
Don't roleclaim to random people LOL

Thank god. With that "good luck town" I was afraid he was actually town.

Praise jebus!

On December 06 2010 10:33 kitaman27 wrote:
Can I request that the mad hatter either pm me or someone they trust to reveal who they have bombs on right now?

On December 06 2010 13:32 SouthRawrea wrote:
So should we choose to lynch the hatter, we should not reveal who the bombs are on but stick with the decision just so we don't get the mafia turning on us. Keep in mind that the bombs were placed in accordance with who we thought was scummy. I'm almost positive now that one of the targets is mafia. So IMHO, there's 1 near-certain scum + one player we thought was scummy and then 2 lynches vs lynching 1 scum + 3 guesses. The difference is that we save a night at the cost of the MH's life. Unless there's something I'm not factoring in here, this seems to be our best option. I'd like the majority of people to comment on this before we go through with it.

On December 06 2010 13:54 Nemesis wrote:
Hmm town's chances are rather looking grim. I am rather leaning towards lynching MH right now because town's chances of lynching right 4 times is rather low especially factoring in that townies might be easily manipulated by witches.

It depends on how much confidence MH has on his targets. Does MH still have two bombs right now, and if so, how confident is he?

Because if he only has 1 bomb, I think our chances are pretty much the same eitherway, and would rather scumhunt.

On December 06 2010 21:47 CubEdIn wrote:
Just going on a side-note here, since we're considering taking down MH, why not take down someone who we're pretty certain is mafia, and take the chance of mafia hitting MH on the following night.

I know it's a long shot, but if you are not certain of both of MHs bombs, it's pretty much the same thing. And eventually we'll have to take a stab in the dark anyway.

Also, one more thing, if we ARE lynching MH, we have to be very accurate about it. We can't have the lynch derail at the last moment and give away info on who the MH is to the mafia. I know this sounds stupid, but I seen it happen with Pandain in Insane. What was supposed to be a very clear lynch got derailed easily because people were not paying enough attention.

So. I'm gonna ask mr. jcarlsoniv: You said you spoke to MH and you're both toying with the idea. Do you happen to have a 3rd target? Someone we can be at least 50,01% sure is mafia tonight?

After that's been answered, I propose we vote if we lynch the MH or not.

On December 07 2010 10:50 KtheZ wrote:
This is true. We should debate on who to lynch first.

Is it bad for the hatter to reveal who he has his bombs on? So we don't accidentally lynch that person. The hatter can 100% leave the bomb on the scum-like person, and we can debate whether the 2nd person is scum or not, and the results (if we dont insta-lose) would in turn help us find the other mafia.

Of course, this is just my thoughts.

On December 07 2010 11:56 SouthRawrea wrote:
Or maybe I'm confused now. D:

On December 07 2010 12:40 KtheZ wrote:

Or we could purposely lynch one of his bombs out of the game.

On December 07 2010 13:45 Eiii wrote:


I wasn't, the hatter plan is terrible. I don't feel like we have strong enough leads on two mafia to bet the whole game on not hitting any town with the bombs. If the hatter has any bombs on people he's not 100% sure are mafia, he should recall them asap.

On December 07 2010 14:07 KtheZ wrote:


I'm saying that IF and only IF we get to the point with like 1 or 2 mafia left, and an also dwindled number of townies, that the hatter's bombs may do more harm than good.

On December 07 2010 14:56 Nemesis wrote:

MH is a townie KP, why would we want to get rid of his bombs?


It's the same situation eitherway. If a SINGLE lynch isn't mafia town LOSES INSTANTLY.

If we go for the lynch option and manages to lynch a mafia today, all it would take is for mafia to convince 1 person to vote with them and town loses.

But if we kill the MH, mafia have no chance at all of trying to convince people who town should kill.

On December 08 2010 03:27 CubEdIn wrote:


What if someone else claims and you two are mafia?

Just asking, that would be funny.

On December 08 2010 03:34 CubEdIn wrote:

First of all, I'm just going into deep WIFOM here, but since you're playing along with the discussion, let's digress!

Many reasons!

a) Find out who the real MH is (look for the guy with a surprised look on his face that seems to be going "heeeeeeey....")

b) Cause a huge shit storm, in case there are 2 MHs claiming. The Mafia will be united, but the town
won't. They will no longer know who to trust and votes will be split at least 2-ways (tho, one of them will be the real MHer so no harm there I guess).

c) Draw attention to some players while hiding others. A lot can happen if that amount of chaos is ensued.

I'm not saying it's a wise move for mafia, It's not. But it would be hella-funny, and not as unreasonable as it sounds.
The only real argument against it is that town doesn't have any real leads anyway, so there's no need to push a snowball down the hill.

On December 08 2010 04:17 Radfield wrote:
This is a bad plan people, and not just because I know for a fact that it will lose us the game. Now, obviously me yelling I'm green will not sway anyone, so lets set that aside.

If we're assuming here that the two bomb victims are mafia, which we are, then this is STILL the wrong way to go about this. Why not lynch them one after another, today and tomorrow. By voting for the MH today, we lose a day of voting, which at this point is what is going to pin down mafia. Yes 4 lynches in a row is a tall order, but each successful lynch makes it more likely to pin mafia the next night. Why? Because of voting tendancies. Each day gives us another round of votes to look at, and also wipes more townies out of the way, making it easier to hit mafia. The longer this game goes, the more likely we are to win(obviously). Why are we trying to shorten it?

If you guys truly believe that me and Eiii the most likely mafia, then lynching one today and one tomorrow is the smarter play(in principal). It keeps a confirmed townie alive(Jcarl) and gives us more votes to analyse as well - Who's defending who? Who's sure player x is mafia? Etc. Why are we trying to stifle discussion by giving the mafia an easy win with the MH?

Kitaman you keep talking how because Jcarl is outted now, that puts us at the point of no return, but I don't see how this is true. It gives us a player to rally around, who won't die, who we KNOW is town aligned(no counter-claim). Why is this a bad thing??

On December 08 2010 04:39 Radfield wrote:



Are you joking? I assume you're referring to this sentence:

+ Show Spoiler +

Obviously lynching me today is just as much an auto-loss as lynching you(the MH). I'm trying to show that this is a bad idea in principle, and that this is not the optimum strategy right now. Using your role is not a priority by any stretch.

Also, there is a very good chance you will get hit by mafia tonight, since at least one of your bombs is on a townie.

If you guys truly believe that me and Eiii the most likely mafia, then lynching one today and one tomorrow is the smarter play(in principal). It keeps a confirmed townie alive(Jcarl) and gives us more votes to analyse as well - Who's defending who? Who's sure player x is mafia? Etc. Why are we trying to stifle discussion by giving the mafia an easy win with the MH?

On December 08 2010 08:46 Eiii wrote:
alright this isn't really going in a positive direction here and it's probably too late to do anything about it.

Kitaman PM'd me earlier and basically asked if I'd be able to vote later today. I said yeah, I would, and he replied that the town was going to go along with the hatter plan. I checked the voting thread, and there were lots of votes for hatter there, so I threw mine in as well. At the time I didn't know for sure where the bombs were placed. I'm not in the town circle, and I wasn't about to second guess their decision. I feel like we're in an unwinnable situation, and that this is the wrong move to make but I'm not about to potentially let mafia win the game any earlier than they have to by splitting the town's vote.

obviously I'm going to take back my vote now that I *know* that I'm a bomb target.

From: Eiii
Subject: Re: Salem
Date: 12/8/10 04:58
:/ alright

-----------------------------------------
Original Message From kitaman27:
mmk thanks. It looks like we are going to vote for the MH jcarl.

On December 08 2010 09:09 Eiii wrote:
The ":/" is because I thought the plan had almost no chance of succeeding! My intention with that line was more along the lines of "mark my words..." than a definite statement, and it was dumb to say looking back on it. I had (and have) no trust in the town's ability to identify two mafia with 100% accuracy, and I wasn't happy that that was the plan we were moving forward with-- but I was NOT going to fuck everything up by voting against the town. Problem is, now voting with the town fucks everything up so I have to take the worst of both.