EPTlets do this
BC and RoL: Salem Mafia
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Radfield
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lets do this | ||
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Radfield
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I think either PMs or the bootcamp need to be dropped. | ||
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On November 22 2010 10:41 ghrur wrote: HAPPY BIRTHDAY RADFIELD! Thank you Thank you, though it's actually not for another 1 hr and 46 minutes. It's always nice to celebrate early on TL though  | ||
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Be active. By active I don't mean post every thought all the time. I mean follow whats going on in the thread and go back over previous posts. I highly suggest keeping a spreadsheet with all the players on it, and keep track of your thoughts on each player. Track possible connections between players, activity levels, etc. Keep track of what everyone claims and flips as you go. Being 'active' is mostly an out of thread thing. When you post, post content. Make one long post instead of many short ones. Don't get sucked into arguments, they derail the thread and do little to help find mafia. Most arguments(especially day 1) are between two townies. Focus on posts and not on PMs and plans. Balanced Mafia games are won through behavior analysis, nothing more. Lastly, if you're a townie you have one very important job. Take a hit! Every townie that dies, is a blue role saved. If you can be a threat simply through good thoughtful posting, that leaves the blue roles enough time to co-ordinate. | ||
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On November 26 2010 14:55 aidnai wrote: + Show Spoiler + let me see here... Can you explain the 'curse' dynamic a little more? i.e. what effect does being cursed have on a townie? Other than that, I think I understand the setup decently. I know the role count is not disclosed, but just to double check my assumptions with everyone... it's probably something close to 8 regular mafia/witches 1 godfather/elder 1 miller 1 chaos ensuant 2 DTs/witch hunters 2 medics/healers 1 mad hatter 1 vet/hardened soldier 1 vigi/paranoid villager and about 13 townies yes/no? Lets hope they did a better job of balancing than that  I think 6 mafia in a 30 player game is pretty standard (at least, 4 in a 20 player game is fairly standard). A likely KP of 3 to start with(normal formula is mafia #/2 rounded up). Add in a miller and a traitor, and we're probably looking at between 5 and 7 blue roles. As far as what those blue roles may be, I don't know, and it doesn't matter all that much. We get what we get.On November 26 2010 13:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Discussion points: -How to unite town circle -How/when roleclaims should be done and handled -Possible medic/dt actions Town circles are tricky, and should always be conducted on a need to know basis. We have both a miller and godfather, which severely slows down a potential Town Circle. If you're a dt, no one needs to know you're a dt until you find a red, and at that point you can go through an intermediary (someone you've already checked, who is likely[though not certainly] town aligned) and get them to speak up in the thread. The identity of the dt is biggest secret that needs to be kept. Once the godfather goes down, the town circle will become immensely powerful. Keep in mind though, that the ONLY way to catch the godfather is through post analysis, and that as long as the gf is alive, the town circle is flawed. Hence, we need to focus on post analysis first, and town circles second. I don't think there are any (good) hard and fast rules for dealing with roleclaiming in thread. Each needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. If someone roleclaims out of the blue, that needs to be dealt with very differently then someone roleclaiming on death row. We don't necessarily need to worry about the medics and dt's just yet. The mafia have all day to choose who will be the godfather, so offering the dt options at this point is somewhat useless. Doctors go with their gut or anyone they think is particularly valuable. The role that really needs to be discussed is the Paranoid Villager(vigilante). Do NOT fire until there is good reason to do so. A well timed vig shot can be very, very useful as the game progresses, because it can give the town what amounts to a double lynch. eg. you have 2 lynch candidates on day 3, instead of overly worrying about who to kill, you simply lynch one and vig the other during the night. This saves both a lynch, and a potential dt check. As far as Vet and Mad Hatter, there are lots of options for sneaky plays to draw hits, but you don't necessarily need to get carried away. Reasoned discussion and good posting is normally enough to get shot. | ||
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Radfield
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On November 27 2010 02:49 aidnai wrote: actually mafia KP is two until there only one scum remaining. Declaring absence for 24 hours. Due to Thanksgiving followup activities with my cousins. There will be no computers/internet available, so see you later. You're right, I missed that. Not sure if that was always there or edited in later: Witch - Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in the mafia. You may not kill other witches. Witch killing power is 2 until there are less than 2 witches. The Elder - The Elder has the ability to decide what role he will appear to be when a witch hunter role checks him. It must be any role, but must be chosen day one, or he will default to townie role. After your role is chosen, you may not change it after that. The elder had 1 kp on his own. The elder is chosen by the witches. So there is actually a KP of 3 until the Elder is dead, or until there is only 1 witch left. | ||
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On November 27 2010 06:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Alright so town circle stuff, here is what I know: I know one player who is almost certainly a confirmed medic I know one player who is either a blue role or a red role (not green) There is absolutely no way that someone can be almost certainly confirmed at this point in the game. Not to mention, there is no way any medic can be confirmed in this set-up, because no one is notified if they took a hit and were medic saved. Wow, what a perfect cover for the GF..... What you actually know is that two players are either red or blue(I'm assuming the other player roleclaimed blue). I'll admit that a roleclaim at this point is so strange it's probably true, but again, the only player who has nothing to lose from a roleclaim at this point is the GF. also if he is mafia, i have him in a trap. if he is a mafia medic i can make sure certain people don't get hit, thus almost being something of a medic role myself, because if he tells me "i'm protecting player x" and then player x dies along with 2 others then he's in deep shit Obviously the mafia just won't kill player x in this case. Yes it keeps them alive, but it slowly and surely leaks the town circle. Honestly, the only people who can be trusting at this point are mafia. Why? Because they know who all the townies are, so of course they can be trusting. Stop roleclaiming in PMs people! I don't care if you're green or not, every PM roleclaim hurts the town at this point. The town circle needs to be build from the dt(s) outwards, not from random flying PMs. | ||
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On November 27 2010 11:21 Barundar wrote: Alot of people who have posted something barely qualify them as non lurkers  . Since there is no pressure on them, mafia is probably most concerned with breaking into DrH's circle. What circle!? NO ONE SHOULD BE PMING DR H THEIR ROLES. It's day 1 folks, that means zero dt checks have been done, and the mafia haven't even chosen the godfather. This is a great way to lose the game on day 1..... Dr H is actively calling for roleclaims on Day 1!? Does this not alarm anyone else? Basically as far as i can tell, the idea is to put our faith in Dr H(for no reason) and hope he's not mafia. Because if he IS mafia, and there's nothing indicating he isn't, then our blues get completely hung out to dry. Why would we ever gamble like this? No roleclaims people. Today is about lynching and forcing people to vote and post, not about giving away what advantage we have. | ||
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On November 27 2010 12:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm not asking anybody to roleclaim to me, where are you getting that idea? i presented a few ideas for a possible town circle and asked town to discuss them. You aren't coming out directly and saying it, but you're certainly insinuating it. if he is willing, my current proposition is to have him protect me like a bodyguard indefinitely and then I can coordinate the town network but there are problems with that: -you guys have to trust me, but I think I proved my leadership prowess in Insane Mafia and I promise to improve as town in this game (if youngminii doesn't shoot me) the best thing is that only one person will know peoples roles and if I'm telling people about what others are saying I'll refer to them only as "the medic" "the DT" etc. Also, your story doesn't match up: On November 27 2010 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i sent out some random pm's for kicks and a player just immediately told me he was the medic i wasn't expecting that but it kinda gives me something to work with i guess. i told him to shut up and not tell anyone else though tip for town players: don't randomly roleclaim to people who PM you unrelated nonsense No mention of Shutting up etc + Show Spoiler + Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: i know why would you roleclaim to me so suddenly? i wasn't even going to ask, although I guess I can give you advice. Medic is a pretty easy role I think, just go after vets/anyone who roleclaims an important role like DT unless you're really suspicious. it's a role i always wish i would get but I never do. I think its playstyle suits me actually. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From SOMEBODY thats not even a role. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: cool i got dracula ----------------------------------------- Original Message From PLAYERDUDEGUY I got medic. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: whats up buttercup I realize this isn't much, but come on... you only told us 1 single detail about your PM conversation, but then when you show us the convo it's not there? What are we really supposed to think?? Care to explain? | ||
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Voting Pandain until he posts some content, then moving down the list of people who i know should be posting more content. If Day 1 becomes about pressure votes, so be it. We can't analyse posts if there are none.... 5. Scaramanga 6. Kenpachi 7. Amber[light 11. youngminii 15. deconduo | ||
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5. Scaramanga 6. Kenpachi 11. youngminii 15. deconduo | ||
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Also, Radfield, you posted a list of lurkers to be pressured. On November 27 2010 21:38 Radfield wrote: OK, we're running out of time here. There's absolutely no reason that people should be able to coast through Day 1. Voting Pandain until he posts some content, then moving down the list of people who i know should be posting more content. If Day 1 becomes about pressure votes, so be it. We can't analyse posts if there are none.... 5. Scaramanga 6. Kenpachi 7. Amber[light 11. youngminii 15. deconduo Why no Artanis on this list? For the record, I am inclined to believe you are pro-town at this point, but I do want to know why you missed artanis. Artanis is not on that list because he had one meaty post at that point, and because he was modkilled in the only game i remember playing with him(ie I didn't actually expect him to post more) You'll notice that there are other players who were inactive who didn't make the list(rocco etc.) The players on that list are either people i'd played with before, or people who are highly active on TL. That list was not meant as a definitive inactivity list, it was meant as a pressure tool for people who I know can play decently. Town Circles We should not be checking DoctorH to try and make him the centerpiece of some grand PM circle. If he IS mafia, then he's obviously the godfather, so checking him is a waste. If we want to make a PM circle, dt's need to go about it in the same conservative fashion as always, and need to pick someone other than DH to start with. Players spotlight themselves for different reasons, but one of those reasons is because they are scum. Take a look at BB: On November 27 2010 05:56 BrownBear wrote: And so far, nobody has really shown themselves to be either particularly pro or anti-town. For now, I'm voting myself for mayor as a placeholder (although I actually might try to run, depending on the other candidates). I'm starting to think it might be just a great idea to just start throwing votes-for-lynch on the nonspeakers, try and get them to talk. If we can't find anyone, this game is large enough for us to get away with lynching an inactive purely based on their inactivity, at least the first day. To that end, I'm voting that the mayor should lynch georgeclooney. Get to talkin' boy. Before Brownbear went AFK, he basically started a campaign for mayor. Yes, there is no mayor and it was stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that he still ran for it. This immediatly pegged BB as either red or blue, since townies should only be running for mayor if they are extremely strong players, which BB knows he is not(no offence, but only about 4/5 players fall into this category on this site). Turns out he was Black in this case, but that's close enough. My town circle advice for ALL players is this: Ignore it. If it forms, it forms, but don't try to force it. This game, just like most mafia games before it, will be won or lost by scumhunting, not by PM circles. Focusing on a town circle removes responsibility from players to actually do the work of combing the thread for scummy posts. It also places all our eggs in one basket. On November 28 2010 17:54 aidnai wrote: Is the priority right now really to find confirmed townies to strengthen the town circle? or is it to find confirmed scum? . All new players take note, no wiser words have been spoken. This game is about focusing on who is MAFIA, not who is town. How many times have you used the ALL function to CTRL-F through the thread for a certain players posts? I have done it dozens of times so far, and will continue to do it dozens more before i die(hopefully more than ~12hrs from now). I suggest everyone else do the same. Night Actions: We have two possible actions to discuss right now, DT and Medic. Hatters are on their own as always, and PV should be holding their shot for now. If you are a newb and got the mad hatter role, place a bomb tonight. Place it on either whomever you think is scummiest, or if you have no idea, whomever you think will most likely be lynched by the town (Killing the likeliest lynchee probably saves us a lynch). Doctors protect either whomever you think is likeliest to die, or whomever you think is most valuable to town. Dt's should be looking hard for scum. Priority #1 is finding mafia, priority #2 is building a town circle. Keep that in mind. | ||
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On November 28 2010 09:40 Kenpachi wrote: ALRIGHT. So Deconduo voted for me.. recently PMed me and tried to roleclaim me.. Is this your experiment? On November 28 2010 09:53 deconduo wrote: Never said/PMd anything of the sort. The only PM I sent you was the one about the roleclaim. On November 28 2010 09:56 Kenpachi wrote: ohwait you didnt quote the pm.. >_>.. well uhh yea.. i saw it as you telling me to defend myself via roleclaim Can one of you please explain what went on here?? On November 28 2010 09:58 deconduo wrote: Thats what my experiment was as well. Every time someone has pushed kenpachi ahead in votes, someone else bumps up BB. This is very true, and an excellent obs. Looking at how the voting went down: Kenpachi 3 BB 1 this is where we stand with about 4 hours remaining, then: Jimboslivers -- BB DrH -- BB KtheZ--KP Kenpachi -- BB Pandain -- BB Node -- KP EsbenPM -- BB Youngmini -- KP Southrawrea -- BB Deconduo -- KP(test) Darth -- KP(test) It is now 8 for KP, 7 for BB Aeres -- switch from KP to BB ghrur -- BB The changed vote puts BB in the chair, and the vote from ghrur throws the switch. The test by DTA and deconduo succeeds. Keep in mind that BB is a townie for these purposes, because mafia have no reason to think otherwise. Seems to me that Kenpachi should almost certainly be checked or lynched, as his alignment gives us some quality info. Assuming he flips red, that gives us EsbenPM, Southrawrea, Aeres and ghrur as the final votes coming down the wire. Aeres with the all important switched vote becomes highly suspicious(yes he voted for KP earlier, but it was just a placeholder). The other BB voters are Pandain, DrH and Jimboslivers. If he flips green, it's a dead end since both would be townies and the mafia would likely be split between them. This seems far too juicy to gloss over, as a little pushing could net us a huge gain. Thoughts? | ||
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Since the dawn is fast approaching, it's time for me post before i die(62.5%). Likely players with roles(ie Blue or Red, if they turn up green be mildly suspicious) Annul Amber Youngminii Kitaman Artanis Barundar Southrawrea As always though, things don't really get cooking until Day 2. If a medic saw it in his heart to pay me a visit tonight, I would not object. I highly recommend all new players check out Ver's analysis of Mafia XXX. In fact, i recommend ALL players check it out. It's worth both a read and a re-read. Ace's guide to being mafia is also very worth reading. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 29 2010 11:10 Amber[LighT] wrote: This I received from Ghrur... I don't know if he was trying to keep me away from others, but he did provide a "list" he was suspicious of: Thanks for not killing me though, Ghrur. ^____^ Assuming Amber is telling the truth, ghrur called out 5 players towards the end of the night: Barunder ---> died that night, why bother to put him on the list if he ghrur knows he is about to die? Protactinium---> heaps a bit of extra suspicion on top Node ---> adds in that he is 'quiet' KtheZ--->nothing Youngminii--->adds in that he is 'quiet' This gives all of these players at least an ounce of credibility, but not much more than that yet. It's pretty standard that mafia generally stick 1 or 2 fellow mafia in lists like this. Dr H, you seem almost surely town at this point, as you continue to brazenly spotlight yourself. In fact, it seems to me like you are screaming out to be hit right now, which makes me hope you are a vet/hatter. Looking at what you've said so far, presumably you have a hatter+ Show Spoiler + "The second mad hatter should claim to me. It's possible there are three mad hatters in this game, but it seems unlikely" "A town circle is growing" Anyways, the kenpachi lynch is a done deal, as it should be. The potential gain from his lynch far outweighs any potential loss. That being said, lets take the time now to discuss where we go after the lynch. No reason to waste the rest of the day. Also:+ Show Spoiler + On November 30 2010 15:30 annul wrote: tbh this game is prematurely fucked for the town due to a DT suiciding so like i really have stopped paying much attention since then if im still alive later on in the game im sure i will pay more attention to the stuff (and, specifically, look at individual posts of the ones still alive), but in the meanwhile ill give cursory skims and vote my gut and/or what people i think are town are voting. for some reason i just do not "feel" this game =( id almost say "go and kill me" but i mean you really are better off just finding scum, not lynching a townie for not caring so much on day 2 not that i think i am in any danger whatsoever, mind you Scumhunting made easy?.... or just a really bad townie | ||
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Big post about Annul coming. | ||
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Anyways, day 3 is here, so it's time to get busy. Why Annul is Mafia Annul fits the mafia profile in several key ways: Is Active during Day 1, but provides little content. Everything he states is pretty much obvious or spam. He has a marked decline in posting from day 1 -> Day 2. Culminating in an almost disappearance from the thread. Continually references past games. Writes a giving up post at a time when the town is far far ahead, and there is absolutely no reason to be demoralized. Basically coming up with an excuse for future inactivity. States how he will aggressively defend himself but does not do it. He never once responded to Pandain's accusation.(contradiction) States how he will not give up but seemingly does it, and completely stops posting.(contradiction) Also, top it all off, Dr H just stated that Annul knew that Coag was the medic. None of these things on their own blare out scum, but all put together make a strong case. In fact, there is not a single redeeming, solid post in Annul's history this game. Someone please show me how he is town? | ||
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On December 02 2010 10:55 Pandain wrote: Alright I will be the first to admit, this does not look good for town. Not at all. However I want to urge everyone to stay focused, this is nowhere near our loss. Medics protecting townies was a break for us anyway, not a neccesity. As long as we keep our heads and stay focused, town can still win this. There is a possibility that Dr. H is not town. That is a possibility we must ignore, as it is too late to win if he is. We must pray that he is in fact town, due to how town acted via roleclaiming to him en masse. And I do in fact think he is town. What can be noted about last night's hits is they were all part of the town circle. However, while the medics have died, the DT that Dr. H claims is in contact with lives. This leads me to believe that in fact there was not a full out inflitration of the town circle, I'm remaining somewhat vauge since still discussing with Doctor H. A combination of blue hunting and possibly inflitration is what happened here, but do not discount the possibility of just good scum. Note the first day hits, not for the expierenced, not for the active, but obviously attempts at sniping blue. So its entirely possible that that's exactly what they were doing here. Furthormore, now it is important to realize that the people who tried to get kenpachi lynched(and as i pointed out was probably a bad idea), are very suspicious. People who immediately said "KENPACHI MUST DIE" should be looked at again(looking at you radfield, you of all people should've known better) Additionly, if Dr. H is scum, we already lost. So everyone should claim to him as it will either make the game 1.Shorter time for inevitable mafia win 2.Better chance for town Especially now, we need people to claim ASAP since really we already lost if Dr. H is scum, better believe him now and try to win. Kenpachi screamed mafia, and i made my reasons very clear for voting him. He basically didn't try to defend himself, and simply clammed up. He also presented a huge wealth of information to town if he flipped red. This by itself is not enough worth a lynch, but combined with ghrurs Day 1 counter-vote and his own posting made it worthwhile. Agreed about Dr H. For better or worse he has the roles he has, and thats not a road we can go down anymore. | ||
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Why Annul is Mafia Annul fits the mafia profile in several key ways: Is Active during Day 1, but provides little content. Everything he states is pretty much obvious or spam. "everything" i state? have you been through EVERY post of mine? cuz i know of at least a few posts i made that even drh said "thats a good point" implying he didnt come up with it. or maybe it is obvious to you because you control all the info (as red)? hmmmmmmm yes i have been through every post of yours, lets lay them out: Ignoring your first 3 spam posts about Harry Potter, your first post is this: On November 27 2010 13:44 annul wrote: what better way to teach the game than to show them precisely what the "non-learning" games are all about? but okay, sure. real analysis? the only thing we need now is pandain to attempt to get people to claim to him in PMs and to start a circle and we have a standard TL mafia game. drh is already vying for day 1 leader so we are certainly off to the normal start. Nothing here thing of note is that the OP explicitly says not all roles may exist in the game. dont do analysis assuming all these roles are there, especially when trying to reverse engineer rolecounts through the guise of "well, THIS is balanced!" etc.Obvious also if this is a "learning game" then i guess we should stick to the bread and butter playstyles and not go all out with crazy trickeries and gambits and stuffNothing here On November 27 2010 13:51 annul wrote: ps i voted for darth because a random vote on drh is pretty frowntown given the daily circumstances [blue]This is poor reasoning for a vote. Though not obvious or spam i will admit. But this is basically a nothing vote. On November 27 2010 14:15 annul wrote: haunted and insane actually had a lot of content to discuss on day 1, surprisingly enough On November 28 2010 05:54 annul wrote: wifom baby yeah <3 [blue]More nothing posts On November 28 2010 07:00 annul wrote: drh PMed me before day post even came up... + Show Spoiler + From: DoctorHelvetica [ 9498 posts | Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: sup witch buddy Date: 11/26/10 12:13 and by everybody i mean like 5 people becuase im too lazy to pm everyone ghrur is dumb and thinks i am actually mafia who didn't get the pm with my teammates SIGH ----------------------------------------- Original Message From annul: what? if youre claiming witch then i think you just broke the game, cuz i did not get sent a witch role =\ ----------------------------------------- Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: lol so who else in our team? so i mean drh seems to be messaging everybody with garbage like this; its not really surprising in a newbie game that maybe 1 person is going to bite. so of course i dont believe any PM claims. i do think though that you can look at what is said in PM as evidence for day 1 lynches, but not in a "well he claimed so we believe him" way Talking about PMs in general and wifom. Content here, but not much On November 28 2010 07:09 annul wrote: smart yeah, but i almost feel like it is an unfair thing to do. many newbies may not understand their roles so well... or maybe make assumptions about what people can say and do about roles, etc. i know, for example, in one place i play mafia on IRC, it is illegal to fake claim detective as a civ in a 9 player game (2 mafia 1 dt 6 civ). just saying. as for point 2, because pandain is acting red to me and the choice was him or someone else? Nothing here On November 28 2010 10:13 annul wrote: you quote pandain and add absolutely nothing to the conversation, its like "HEY DID YOU GUYS NOT SEE THAT POST??!?!?!?!" yeah they did. nothing again, except this time being abrasive. Also trying to defend yourself without actually defending yourself On November 28 2010 10:17 annul wrote: i heavily defend attacks against me no matter what, green blue or red. make a note of this. i claimed this in haunted (red), followed it up in insane (blue), and continued the trend in sengoku (blue, though i guess that isn't "proven" yet). why stop now? Certainly not true at this point. Though of course that has now changed This is follow by SEVEN spam posts He has a marked decline in posting from day 1 -> Day 2. Culminating in an almost disappearance from the thread. yes, tell-tale sign of a mafia right here, not caring about the game This is simply misconstruing what i said. It is not a 'tell-tale' sign, however it is a sign of mafia. I never said caring about the game either, but you are obviously watching closely, yet not actively contributing Continually references past games. i hear invoking reference points to bolster arguments is 100% a scum tactic confirm/deny pls [blue] again deliberately misconstruing my point. The point is that you are posting irrelevant information to appear like you are contributing. I made it clear that none of these points make someone mafia, but that all together form a strong case. Stop misconstruing that point. Writes a giving up post at a time when the town is far far ahead, and there is absolutely no reason to be demoralized. Basically coming up with an excuse for future inactivity. i am demoralized because we got a suiciding DT who received absolutely nothing for his suicide. it doesnt matter if town had a good night 1, we would have a better day 2 if the DT didnt suicide out. the town, then, is at a permanent disadvantage RELATIVE to what it could otherwise be. if the dolphins are up 10-7 thats great but im not happy if instead it could have been 14-7. So if a townie had done the same thing you would have thrown up your arms as well? Since that too would put us behind. So what if things could be better, that was a complete fail of a night for mafia. It just doesn't make any sense to throw in the towel at that poing States how he will aggressively defend himself but does not do it. He never once responded to Pandain's accusation.(contradiction) pandain's accusation was not worth defending. perhaps i should caveat: if a REAL attack is on me, one with potential to gain traction, i aggressively defend. pandabear is bullshitting around fishing for scumtells (or is red himself dunno). If Pandains attack was so bad it should have been easy to defend. Instead you make a post that completely contradicts your actions, and defends through attacking. States how he will not give up but seemingly does it, and completely stops posting.(contradiction) i said i had nothing of value to say so i was shutting up. i said the game was irrepairably broken due to scaramanga being dumb, and no matter what, town is playing at a deficit relative to where it should be given the sum of all actions. i have nothing to say so i say nothing. now i do, hello rad <3 Hi Annul Again, this strikes me as incredibly extreme. Irrepairably broken? If anything taking a hit like losing a dt invites MORE activity, not less. Giving yourself a bunk reason for future inactivity is a red play through and throughAlso, top it all off, Dr H just stated that Annul knew that Coag was the medic. i did? i mean maybe i did and dont remember it, but if he PMed me with that information i surely didnt process it enough to base any of my actions on it lol Can't speak to this one, Dr H can you weigh in here? None of these things on their own blare out scum, but all put together make a strong case. In fact, there is not a single redeeming, solid post in Annul's history this game. Someone please show me how he is town? + Show Spoiler + My blue tags are messing up not sure why | ||
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On December 02 2010 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: A post to draw medics isn't very effective right before the night ends. I would be interested why he believed he had a 62.5% chance of dieing, however. Because those are my night 1 death stats 5/8 | ||
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For all the other people knee-jerk voting me, please read this in full: First off, this is a PM game, not a standard game. I have played one other normal PM game here, and it is the only other game in which I have been up for lynch. The reason I was up for lynch in that game was poor scum-hunting. If you look through Day/Night 1 and Day/Night 2 you'll notice exactly 1 serious accusation leveled at another player(Pandain on Annul), other than that the thread is completely devoid of serious accusations. There is a reason for this: PM games are harder to scumhunt, because far too much information and activity is out-of-thread. In particular, a game in which our entire focus up till now has been Dr H's town circle, and how to use the PM system. You are holding me to a standard that no player has fulfilled, and using it cast suspicion on me. On December 02 2010 11:43 Pandain wrote: Posts by Radfield and my thoughts on said posts! By dr. H, formatted by Pandain. Your welcome Agreed! Not necessarily. For instance if the DT checked someone and returned DT it would be almost 100% the godfather. So this whole post is good advice for blues. BloodyC0bbler did the same thing in XXXI and he was mafia. Meaningless, it's pro-town but only to a certain extent. A very small extent. This is something I like to do as mafia as well. Hey ya'll its Pandain. Just commentin cause I'm cool like dat. I have to say I agree with Dr. H. While reading through Radfield's posts I notice something. It's like he's pro town...but he's really not. He gives generic advice and just like typical day 1 helping posts, but doesn't really help with whats going on now. Until this very day, he has not contributed via scum hunting. Now, I know radfield. Even with this IRL thing going on, at least previously he would've been so happy to survive night 1, and would've certainly have been contributing more. I remember in a previous game with him, it might've been XXX or one of caller's crazy games, or even PYP, but he was active. He was contributing, and right before he died he gave his thoughts on everyone. What did he do this time? Read to find out! This is not an accusation. Yes, i've given out my thoughts before at the end of night one, and the game you may be thininking of was Callers latest red army game. I posted right before the night ended on who i thought was town. I named 3 players I believe, Pandain, Deconduo and someone else(Hesmyrr maybe?). Pandain and Deconduo made up 2 of the 3 scum players in the game..... The idea that I should somehow be on the trail of scum by the end of night one is not fair. The games in which i have been successful in scum hunting are the games in which i have held my tongue until ready. Spouting out accusation left right and center has never been my style, and you know it. Yes, based on analysis of the circumstances surrounding it. I don't find this post scummy or not scummy. It's just good discussion of the town circle. Radfield knows how to appear town as mafia, he won't be obvious in a discussion like this. Slowly twisting the fact that someone DID roleclaim to me to "I"m asking for roleclaims". Radield is a good scumhuner and a very logical player. He would KNOW that's not true. This post is complete bullshit. He is correct in the case that I'm asking for people to roleclaim (an idea that I assure you will be parroted by mafia whether radfield is guilty or not) Agreed. Radfield is a very good mafia player, he would understand whats going on. I don't understand how you can call this bullshit, when you were absolutely encouraging Day 1 roleclaims. You were also trying to put yourself(as an unconfirmed player) in an orchestrating role. The fact of the matter is, other players agreed with me that this is what was happening(I PMed you as well Pandain). Just look the results. How many people claimed to you Day 1?? What I said was completely legitimate. I corrected his wrong points here. :"Where I told him not to claim to others: I'm not going to reveal every single PM I get, but it's getting ridiculous that I'm being twisted as scum just because another player chose to roleclaim to me without prompt. If someone can explain how the medic claim is a good mafia play and how it will ruin us/hurt the town circle then that's fine. " He highlights the parts of my posts where it could be implied I'm asking people to roleclaim except for the parts where I say that its' preferable to go through a DT confirmed townie. A DT confirmed townie even came out! And people chose to roleclaim to me instead, not by my choosing. because I have so many roleclaims I didn't necessarily ask for, the responsibility has been shoved onto me at this point and it's a weight I'm more than willing to carry. Ouch, the old "there is nothing to analyse or talk about. Well that's pretty clearly not the case. Quite a few things happened which Radfield conveniently ignored and well "let's move onto my list of mafia selected inactives: Scaramange: dead DT Kenpachi: medic claimer, no counterclaim occurs Amber: only person I am 100% sure is town based on pure post analysis. I'll kill myself if he's mafia youngminii: trustworthy and crucial to town success deconduo: dead mad hatter look at the inactives he conveniently left out: protactinium georgeclooney rocco12005 Agreed, at artanis which he later explains as "well he CAN be good. However, I will point out that he was merely looking for inactives, so it IS possible this was coincidence, however the tipping point for me is that he left out some players for bad reasons. This entire point reeks of mud-slinging. Lets break it down. I never said there was nothing to talk about or analyse, your saying this to try to make me a thin case against me look stronger. I have never ever said that. You also raise this issue as if i didn't explain it in the post. "moving down the list of people who i know should be posting more content". I also never called those people mafia, I called them exactly what they were, low-actively when they should have been high-activity. And yes, I managed to pick out 5 blue roles with my list. Blue roles and red roles look very similar on Day 1, as you both know. All five of those players should have been more active. I was bang on the money with this post. Also, it's like your insinuating that i'm mafia from the fact that i put 5 blue players on the list together. Yet I somehow completely failed at sniping them Night 1? Which is it? Because you can't call me out on both ends. I already explained why Protact/Georgeclooney/Rocco were left out. There was nothing convenient about it... unless your insinuating that I'm on a scum team with the three of them? Otherwise this is more baseless mud-slinging. Look at what happened, all three went totally inactive. The goal on Day 1 is not to lynch an inactive player, it's to find someone who is posting far less than they should be. Pushing his inactive list, ignoring certain inactives. Why? This was made perfectly clear at the time He only asked why artanis isn't on it. Realized your mistake? I don't buy defenses for things you weren't accused of. also I rue the day someone calls kenpachi's play decent. What game did you play with him in exactly? Why didn't you pressure people who had posted no content/hardly anything who had experience. Like Glasse? 3 shitty useless posts is scummier than no posts especially when the game had really JUST started. Nothing more I can really say here, he said it well . However kenpachi has been improving lately. You continue to paint a picture of what you want to see. I never called Kenpachi 'decent', I called him active on TL. I have never played with him before, so I had no idea his playing style. Defenses for something I was never accused of? I was accused of not having a complete inactivity list, something I never claimed i was doing. I clarified why I made the post. Your calling me out for doing something I should have been doing(putting pressure on typically active, but so far inactive players). Fair point. yes I would be godfather. And I don't spotlight myself as mafia, but I do post a hell of a lot. Says town circle should be started only by DT's yet makes sure DT's know it isn't a priority. This is a pretty big post not saying much by the way. You are correct that scumhunting is the focus typically but hard focus on scumhunting is easily manipulatable by mafia. Confirmed townies are not. It is also much easier to determine who is definitely town than it is to determine who might be mafia based on post analysis. So some groundbreaking analysis and discussion here: scumhunting is good town circles bad! dts dont form town circles but only dts should form them he contributes nothing to the actual game. this post is appropriate for a learning game but is of almost no use to town otherwise. how easy it must be for a mafia to just keep giving good advice while seeming to be "pro-town" and not actually do shit. Agreed. Very contradictory saying dts should start the circles, yet they should not in fact aim for that. Note that You guys are grasping at straws here. What i said, and agree with, is this: Dt's should be looking for the scummiest player they can, as opposed to the towniest player they can(which was being discussed at that point). Then and only then should the dt worry about PM circle, ie, once you check someone, you can count them as confirmed and start a circle. That's the only proper way to start a town circle without huge leaks. Not contradictory. How can you call this not contributing, when the entire game discussion at that point was revolving around PM circles and their use? What should i have been posting about? Again, thoughts like this are likely to have been echoed by mafia and I believe this is a concerted effort by mafia to cover up their mistake of lynching BrownBear. Well they know Kenpachi is innocent so let's kill him now. Also mafia can force people to look bad by defending them weirdly or voting on them a certain way so when they die they are incriminated, or if they are checked. Just a thought. yeah, why bother checking over the voting lists when one player miraculously is saved from a lynch by last minute vote switches? Especially when one of those players flips red.... In hindsight obviously Kenpachi turned out town, but you can't try to argue that nothing fishy went on here. Look at how much advice I'm giving!I must be pro-town! Hey speaking about that scumhunting....wanna do some? As far as i can tell, this is where both your suspicions lie. Everyone of my other posts you two have simply been trying to paint me in a bad light. Pandain speaks to this at the end, and i'll respond there. I'm sorry about this and I believe it. But you should have been scumhunting/contributing something a bit more thoughtful than generic advice insofar and up to this post. My dog died It sapped alot of my mafia pizzazAgain, you are holding me to a higher standard here. Day/Night 1 scumhunting is extremely difficult, and I urge you to try and find a different game where i have shown any success this early in the game. On the contrary, ALL my successful scum hunts have come later on in games, and I have almost exclusively wrong suspicions when i try to push too early. You said earlier spotlighting wasn't a reason to trust me. Baseless attack on annul, same as JimboSilvers who I really suspect. There is also no scumhunting in this post. Something you've promised to do and emphasized as very important. Something other players have told me you are exceptionally good at. Remember in Insane Mafia when Ace emphasized scumhunting and then he didn't do it and just jumped off half-assed bandwagons that other misled townies started, gave a bunch of advice and used big words and condescesion to keep accusations away? Remember that? I do, because you're doing the same shit. You misinterpreted my earlier post. I was implying that you continuing to spotlight yourself makes you more likely to be town, not mafia. Also, you seem to have put our PM convo in here as well. I was trying to point out that Annul should be on the short list for DT checks. In Harry Potter mafia a mafia member mad a similar post giving an excuse for future inactivey. Also, the only thing in common i can see between my play this game and what you describe Ace's game to be like in Insane Mafia, is that we have emphasized scumhunting. None of those other things fit. Agreed,additionaly his "analysis" on annul is lacking at best, with no quotes to support for instance, and is really just characteristic of what he's doing: not caring, hasn't really been trying to analyze people because he knows their alignments, and just throws together half done ones. That wasn't a serious accusation of Annul and you know it. Annuls posted that while i was typing up my other post. I added that on because it came out of nowhere and made no sense. I have since made a serious indictment of Annul as well Furthormore, I want to point out this post. No town player would ever post this. Why would he, as his "death post", post at least his thoughts on players(as of course, he had suggested everyoen to keep spreadsheets on thoughts of players). No, he posts people who he thinks has roles. Now, why would no townie ever do this? 1.Knowing roles really only benefits mafia. it's much better if mafia knows who a blue is than a town. Why in the world would Radfield give mafia possible information like this. I really don't like how much lack of content is in this. Radfield is better, he's really lurking in his own way. Not scumhunting, not posting his thoughts, only giving generic advice. This is why I am voting Radfield. This I think is the real crux of the issue, and why Pandain and Dr H think I am mafia. The rest is baseless and is used only try to force me into the mafia box. My day/night one lists are often wrong Pandain. The game that you are thinking of, where I posted lists like that right before night 1 ended, I was pretty much as wrong as you can be(pegging 2 of 3 mafia as probable town). I need time to make proper assessments, and i need content in the thread. I have yet to ever do what you are describing: Make an accurate account of players alignments on Day 1. The other game you're thinking of is PYP2. On Night 3 i made a just prior to death post of likely alignments in the game, and i was almost completely bang-on. The equivelant time period in this game would be this Saturday night, 2 days from now. You're basically stating that i should have had an equally strong post last Sunday night.... So, that bring us to the question of why I posted people who I thought had roles? Precicly because it's the only real thing you can know at that time. There is very little to distinguish a red player from a blue player in the first cycle. If those players start to claim green in PMs, then that should raise red flags. If half those players die and the other half miraculously stick around beyond when they should, that needs to be looked at. Also, imagine I am 100% bang on in my assessments, and all those players do actually have roles. It means that at this point in the game(DR H with a ton of claims), players who claimed green could easily be identified as fishy. You're entire case against me comes down to 2 things. A post which you are suspicious of, and a lack of scumhunting. Your Day 1 scumhunting expectations of me are ridiculous. I'm wrong more often then right on Day 1, and I know it more than anyone else(and my history in other games makes it clear). Day 2 I had a set-back, and stopped posting for a while. When I came back I didn't scumhunt which is true, but you have to realize that scumhunting takes longer in a PM game(because alot of info is out of thread). Especially a game in which both our lynches have been a wash(Day 1 because the race was between 2 townies, Day 2 from the frantic switcheroo at the end), and where the entire focus of the thread has been a low-activity discussion about PM circles. You're expecting me to glean information where there is none, and where no one else has done so. You're barking up the wrong tree here. | ||
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Also, guilty as charged on the PM front. I have played 2 prior games(not including Callers unbalanced Rotk game) with PMs and they have been far and away my worst games. Both games I was buffaloed by Mafia, and both games I was a detriment to the town. I am not nearly as strong at PM games, which is partly why I don't play them. Players have different strengths. As far as i can tell, there was no bandwagon on Annul other than the one i tried to start. Between Pandains post and mine, there was very little talk at all about him. Given the fact that you keep defending him, without a lot of reasoning in my eyes, I am willing to drop Annul. You have the role-claims, and you have the town-circle, so it would be silly to push against you. For all I know i'm trying to lynch the dt... As far as other targets, I still have yet to read your analysis of JS. Other players are as follows: Townies: Pandain, Dr H, Southrawrea Likely have roles: Youngminii, Artanis, Most scummy: Node(why is he not on your short list), Kavdragon, glasse, esben Currently Aeres does not strike me as mafia, but i will look again at his posts. Protact seems as likely to be modkilled as mafia. If he hangs around with his current level of activity, popping on to vote and nothing else, he should be eventually lynched. No rush here though. Kavdragon makes it on the list by virtue of this PM I received: Hey, are you still playing? Or does your crisis still hold you captive... Anyways, I was wondering if you are in DocH's PM circle. You are my highest suspect for Blue, and I wanted to get your thoughts on what DocH has been up to. I need to go back to work, but will post much more later. Mafia-hunting takes time, and we still have plenty for this day. Will be on tonight. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 03 2010 02:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Radfield you were wrong that I asked people to roleclaim to me. You can soften it up all you want talking about implications and the likes, but the fact is you twisted what I was saying to make it sound like I wanted people to roleclaim to me which is what I didn't want. Then you parrot the exact same thing I was actually saying to make it sound like you had the safe idea all along. No you shouldn't be on the trail of scum at the end of night one. But as far as I know you've been a sitting duck in PMs and of zero to no use in this thread except now to come out with the weak bandwagon on Annul. I feel like this bandwagon has been pre-chosen by mafia as the easy choice, so I'll ask you. Would you be willing to switch to Aeres instead? He showcases the same sort of behavior (lots of posts with no contribution). What about Glasse? PM games are far harder to scumhunt? Not at all, most of the people who came across as scummy to me and who I now expect made it much worse for themselves in PMs. Maybe if you made an attempt to scumhunt in PMs you'd be helpful. But it didn't seem that was the case, even in your PMs with me. PMs favor the good over the bad and in games where everybody is good, they favor the town. It is a huge advantage for mafia that they can change subjects, direct town attention elsewhere when the heat comes on them, with PMs that possibility is marginalized because players can apply the pressure directly. It becomes too scummy to ignore it so mafia players are forced to react until the town player is satisfied. Considering you're one of the better players in this game your lack of abuse of the PM system is startling. It's several posts that I find scummy, PMs that I find scummy (which I still need to post I was waiting for pandain too but he never did), your lack of overall contribution, your desperate attempt to appear as "pro-town" as possible with your rhetoric without ever contributing to the game at hand, and even now your scumhunting is weak. If scumhunting was priority #1 why not start PMing and trying to make these players slip-up? You don't even have any PMs with annul? That says to me you never really thought he was mafia in the first place if you know what I mean. Like I said, I'm willing to switch over to JimboSilvers if your scumhunting is supposedly of such value. Again, are you willing to lynch or kill an alternative target to Annul that has similar posting behavior? Annul is NOT playing like scum and I have observed both as scum and as town. He's playing like he does when he is town. | ||
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Also, lynching JS is a no-brainer at this point. | ||
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Youngminii is good enough to be active and draw a hit, yet has played like he's a detective(or red) instead of like a vet. The other pressing issue in my mind is this: Obviously the town circle is breached. First the hidden medic, and then the hidden Detective. Dr H and Amber are both dead. This leaves a big giant hole in the town circle, with only one person remaining: Southrawrea. My question is why is he still alive?? Everyone knew he was in the circle, so why is he still standing? Why kill Pandain and not him? Any thoughts on this SR? | ||
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. People are throwing that around with little reasoning. That fact that not a single soul in this thread has spoken a word of defense towards me today should let you know i'm not red. Mafia are content to let me be the lynchee. Anyone actively pushing for my lynch or death through MH, gets some scum points.Second, we need to kill the godfather ASAP. If we have 4 mafia left, as people are assuming, then the only way to reduce KP quickly is by lynching the GF. Lynching the GF today leaves us in a better situation down the stretch. So in my mind, the question is who is the most likely to be the GF, not who is most likely to be mafia. Taking a look at who is left in this game: 2. Jcarlsoniv 4. Southrawrea - Still hasn't explained why he has not been hit. 10. Eiii 12. kitaman27 13. Cubedin 14. esbenpm 19. node 22. radfield 25. Aeres 27. KtheZ 29. Nemesis 30. Glasse These are my personal thoughts right now(4 out of 5 are likely mafia), but we need to come to a consensus now before we go down the wire. Assuming we lynch correctly today, we need everyones thoughts on paper before the night finishes. Why? Because three more townies will die in the night, and using their opinions will help keep the mafia influence to a minimum down the stretch. | ||
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We have decent lynch targets out there, why are we taking the easy way out? I propose we lynch Glasse. He has contributed very little this game, and has coasted by in contrast to his prior posting style. His voting has also been suspect: Day 1 voted for Coag (nothing really suspect about this) Day 2 he jumps all over the place. He starts by Abstaining, then switches to Amber, then jumps on the Protact bandwagon. Day 3 he starts out by hopping on Jimbosilvers attempted bandwagon of DrH, which by now we can see was total BS. (He never actually moves off of Dr H) Day 4 he abstains again?? He is active enough to be around to abstain, but doesn't post in the thread. Honestly, how can you possibly abstain today when it's lylo?? We need to discuss this lynch, and he has been noticeably quiet. It is in the best interest of mafia to clam up right now, as the less discussion the better. We need 4 lynches in a row right now, so the less the mafia post, the less chance we have of hitting them. My vote is on Glasse. | ||
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If we're assuming here that the two bomb victims are mafia, which we are, then this is STILL the wrong way to go about this. Why not lynch them one after another, today and tomorrow. By voting for the MH today, we lose a day of voting, which at this point is what is going to pin down mafia. Yes 4 lynches in a row is a tall order, but each successful lynch makes it more likely to pin mafia the next night. Why? Because of voting tendancies. Each day gives us another round of votes to look at, and also wipes more townies out of the way, making it easier to hit mafia. The longer this game goes, the more likely we are to win(obviously). Why are we trying to shorten it? If you guys truly believe that me and Eiii the most likely mafia, then lynching one today and one tomorrow is the smarter play(in principal). It keeps a confirmed townie alive(Jcarl) and gives us more votes to analyse as well - Who's defending who? Who's sure player x is mafia? Etc. Why are we trying to stifle discussion by giving the mafia an easy win with the MH? Kitaman you keep talking how because Jcarl is outted now, that puts us at the point of no return, but I don't see how this is true. It gives us a player to rally around, who won't die, who we KNOW is town aligned(no counter-claim). Why is this a bad thing?? | ||
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On December 08 2010 04:28 jcarlsoniv wrote: Was this a soft claim that you and Eiii are scum and that we should lynch you today and tomorrow? Interesting... Also, now that I'm outed there is no chance for me to get hit by the mafia tonight, so my role is null unless we use it. Are you joking? I assume you're referring to this sentence: + Show Spoiler + If you guys truly believe that me and Eiii the most likely mafia, then lynching one today and one tomorrow is the smarter play(in principal). Obviously lynching me today is just as much an auto-loss as lynching you(the MH). I'm trying to show that this is a bad idea in principle, and that this is not the optimum strategy right now. Using your role is not a priority by any stretch. Also, there is a very good chance you will get hit by mafia tonight, since at least one of your bombs is on a townie. | ||
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On December 08 2010 04:44 jcarlsoniv wrote: Also, I would like to point out that we are not trying to "stifle discussion". Kitaman and I brought up the idea at the beginning of the day, almost 48 hours ago. Very little discussion occurred. We are now on the final leg of the day and a decision needs to be made, so I made one. It's not like at the beginning of the day we were like "SHHHHH THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AND TO ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE WE CAN'T HEAR YOU". No. Agreed. I wasn't insinuating you guys are trying to pull a fast one. Realize though that this morning was the first time I could get online(Satellite Inet + Storm = ). I guess the question is, are you willing to reconsider your strategy? | ||
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On December 08 2010 05:01 kitaman27 wrote: You might have sealed your own fate with this one. Trying to reveal the second bomb location can't be a protown move. Mafia can confirm if both bombs are on a town, which leads to an autowin situation for them. What are you talking about? YOU revealed the second bomb location to me(via PM). If I am mafia I have no need to say it in the thread.... I'd just PM it to the other mafia members. Do you deny this?? All I'm doing is letting everyone know what we're actually talking about. Besides, if I'm mafia then I already know if Eiii is mafia or not. You're not making any sense here. Why do you even care if mafia can confirm both bombs are on a townie?? YOUR plan is to blow the Hatter up tonight. You're simply trying to paint me in a bad light here. If you have some evidence against me or want to analyze my posting feel free. But don't come at me with nonsense. | ||
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On December 08 2010 05:01 kitaman27 wrote: You might have sealed your own fate with this one. Trying to reveal the second bomb location can't be a protown move. Mafia can confirm if both bombs are on a town, which leads to an autowin situation for them. Also, if we're talking about lynching the Hatter, then revealing the second bomb location is absolutely pro-town, in fact it's a MUST. Either we discuss this as a town, or we simply leave it up to Jcarl. I'm vastly in favor of talking it out. Yes that means mafia get their input too, but that is a GOOD thing. | ||
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On December 08 2010 08:09 Eiii wrote: ##Vote jcarlsoniv This loses us the game though. Eiii is obviously mafia. The only possible reason he would go along with this, is because he knows i am town, and that mafia wins the game. It makes no sense for him to be town, because in that case he is voting for a loss. There is no way a townie would vote for this. By lynching Eiii we lose one of Jcarl's bombs, that means that he can switch his other bomb tonight(if he wants) and no one will know where his bomb is. Mafia can gamble and hit him, or they avoid him and we have a confirmed Hatter still. In either case, the mafia can no longer use Jcarl against us. PLEASE VOTE Eiii He is obvious scum at this point | ||
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Someone please show me how Eiii is not scum at this point!? | ||
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On December 08 2010 10:07 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I actually think that was used to make sure you guys would follow with the plan. Imagine if there was no resistance, especially from a pretty much known mafia player. You guys might realize that you didn't have one of the bombs on a red and were thus losing the game. So him fighting against the lynch made more sense and confirmed your guys suspicion. At least that is what I assumed radfield was doing, since lynching jcarl won them the game. you guys should of just lynched Radfield or another mafia suspect. A more conservative route was definitely better in this situation the inner circle was completely compromised and the mafia knew everything that was happening since day one. AKA they knew where all the bombs were. Lol, classy Cubedin... the ol "I KNEW you were mafia" after the fact Yes, the reason I fought so hard at the end was to link myself and Eiii irrevocably. If people all of a sudden decided to lynch me at the end, then it would be obvious that Eiii was also mafia, since I would never fight hard against the Mad Hatter lynch unless we were both mafia(since if Eiii was town then I win). + Show Spoiler + At the very end I was pushing Eiii just for the fun of it And yes, I knew the other bomb was on KtheZ, since South told us that. GG everyone | ||
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On December 08 2010 10:12 Kavdragon wrote: Yeah, i think that this game will be quoted as a textbook example of how town circles can go wrong. I think that the mafia got a little lucky with the GF being DT checked day one, but they still deserved the win. Regardless of how badly the town played (yeah, me too), I think that the mafia did a decent job. Well played. GG. Mafia got EXTREMELY lucky with that night one DT check, and with the fact that the other dt was modkilled on Day 1. Honestly, this game(along with the role-list) was handed to us on a silver platter. Dr H's scumhunting almost saved the day, but it was a steep slope to climb. On December 08 2010 10:18 Incognito wrote: No, YM wasn't lynched JUST because he was a vet. It was because he claimed to be a vet AND he wasn't contributing/playing his normal style. Yes, people should've looked at the lynch more closely, but this wasn't all too irrational. Agreed. People were comparing myself and YM: Both semi-veteran players, known for contributing but are not. The big difference was that all of my posts looked like they were contributions, but were not. Where as YM was simply not contributing. This pegs me as mafia, and him as something else(either blue, or disinterested, or IRL busy, etc) Also, had we not had the role list, we would have likely targeted YM in a blue-snipe attempt. His play was simply too uncharacteristic to go unnoticed. EDIT: I will say my play this game was extremely lackluster. No doubt about that. | ||
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On December 08 2010 10:27 kitaman27 wrote: Lets all just agree to blame that n00b artanis for checking him in the first place. South's "hey look guys. I have a role, check me please" is what made me trust him as a vet, guess it had an alternate motive. We were only 10 minutes away from lynching Nemesis(protactinium). I'm going to have to go back and check how they dodged that bullet. Haha. We didn't do anything.... In fact, last i had logged in we were lynching Kitiman(and i think that goes for most of the team). Reading through that thread was frickin tense though! Hilarious too EDIT: @Nemesis: He means Protactinum, your prior incarnation. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2010 10:38 Incognito wrote: On a further note: Theres only 3 games I remember where a town circle actually benefited the town. One was TL Mafia 4, where town circle destroyed the game Night 1 because mafia didn't read the rules. The second was Mafia V, where Town lynched red 7-8 times in a row (can't remember exactly, but it was almost a perfect game). However, in this game, town circle benefited from the fact that all the top tier players were town-sided. The third game was Mafia XX, where mafia played a passive game and information in the town circle was strictly kept between 3 players. The funny thing about that game, though, was that the mafia knew who the town circle was but couldn't do anything to stop them. That game also had too many strong blue roles. The moral of the story is: town circles only work well when information is kept strictly guarded AND the game has abnormal circumstances like described above. Otherwise, just don't try it. I think Mafia XXVII had good use of PMs between blue roles(perhaps not exactly 'town circles'). Again, the info in that game was held closely by the players who knew, eventually duping the mafia into hitting whom they thought was the medic, but was actually the watcher. A watcher who happened to be medic protected, and watching himself. Any 'leaks' in that game were fairly carefully orchestrated. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2010 10:41 Incognito wrote: Yes, you were fairly obvious day 1 if you compare this play to your other play. However, what I'm interested in most here is the GF comparison. Everyone assumes that GF will be the mafia's strongest player. However, often mafia doesn't choose the obvious player as GF. This game, SR over Radfield. Mafia XXII, BM over me. Caller's mafia, a no-name player over Ver. Will be back for more comments later. Agreed, though I'd like to hope that I wasn't completely obvious until Day 2.... | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2010 11:17 aidnai wrote: >_< This tactic won me over so quick I'm embarrased. I won't trust people who flatter me anymore I guess. Although IT WAS GOOD ADVICE AND DAMN YOU TOWN FOR NOT LISTENING ;( May I ask why I got shivved so quick? reasoning? Was it an attempted blue snipe, or just unlikely medic target, or wifom-generator, or what? Dr.H had a good analysis on annul, and a good analysis on radfield. I'm not sure what went wrong with youngminii... I was shocked when he flipped blue. Looking forward to seeing another analysis on his play sometime. You got sniped for PMing me this: Hi Radfield, Based on your behavior in the thread, I feel like you are town aligned. I therefore want to bounce a few ideas off of you. Tomorrow, we get to lynch again. Right now, my list of scum targets is something like Node, SouthRawrea, Pandain, DarthThienAn. What do you think? Personally, I think we have the strongest case on either Node or DTA, i'd like to pressure one of those two. If you agree, it would probably be useful to focus town that direction. Also, I've been talking to Dr.H. Everything he has done in thread has seemed very pro-town, except for the focus on town circle which honestly can go very good or very bad for town. Do you think it's plausible that he could be godfather? In the scenario I'm imagining, both Dr.H and the 'medic' who claimed to him (if there is one) are mafia. Dr.H now has an excuse to be the center of attention and the center of the town circle (because of the medic claim). He also has an excuse for not dying (similar to GF claiming vet, but instead of bulletproof he has a medic). All of my behavioral analysis says Dr.H is town, but the scenario I'm imagining is keeping me from trusting him 100%. I also wish he wasn't so focussed on town circle/confirming townies/PM's/roleclaiming. Do you have any thoughts? I thought you were blue for sure. Major blue sniping fail by me on day one | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2010 11:44 CubEdIn wrote: Oh come on don't be mean to me. The whole town was pretty much sure you were Mafia, and that's all I stated. It just got more obvious when you were causing a fuss, but as you said, it didn't matter anyway. And I know that ym didn't die just because of that, but I've seen this happen a lot of times: Town bases self on one idea -> something bad happens, people forget about the idea -> time is wasted and game is lost, when following the idea would've been good. I'm just saying, if we committed to something, we should follow through. Just like it was with the Pandain Lynch in Insane. And I never claimed that I'm a good player, but I did comment about our "confirmed green", and I always voted for killing you when you were in the spotlight. So you can't say I'm being whiny. I would've never guessed who ELSE was mafia anyway. Apologies, I didn't mean to come off as being mean. I just meant to be cheeky Fact is, you probably were pretty sure I was mafia, and you were right | ||
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