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Kingmaker - A New Game - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
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DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 09 2010 22:18 GMT
#121
why don't you just offer something of value instead
RIP Aaliyah
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:19 GMT
#122
the only ones that really "need to find out what the king is thinking" are the assassins.

when i said that i was implying that they have less majority then town does
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:23 GMT
#123
On November 10 2010 07:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
why don't you just offer something of value instead


im not sure at this point i really have noticed anything out of the ordinary yet to contribute to the towns analysis.

i will say im town do not waste a lynch. i dont know how much thats worth on its own at this point but it definitely needs said.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 09 2010 22:24 GMT
#124
that's not worth anything, it's worth literally completely absolutely nothing

someone earlier prompted you to offer thoughts and responses on a few specific posts. you should follow through with that.
RIP Aaliyah
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 09 2010 22:35 GMT
#125
On November 10 2010 05:58 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 05:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 10 2010 05:47 BrownBear wrote:
Let's hear Coag defend himself before we go ahead and execute.

how can you defend being inactive and bad


1.You could wait for him to talk for one...
2.It's not just that about coag, by waiting longer we can have more time, having more people talk. More information=good.

@Lsb: How does merlin affect the # of mislynches?


Lets assume that no assassins get killed.

Day 1: 7-2
Night 1: 6-2
Day 2: 5-2
Night 2: 4-2
Day 3: 3-2 LYLO

Lets say we use merlin

Day 1: 7-2 Merlin!
Night 1: 7-2
Day 2: 6-2
Night 2: 5-2
Day 3: 4-2 LYLO
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:35 GMT
#126
On November 10 2010 04:04 LSB wrote:
If coagulation doesn't do anything else besides the two posts that he has right now, I'm willing to support you.

Coagulation. If your town, please start giving input on the few ideas that have been presented. I want to hear your opinion on

1) Lynching inactives http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=2#30
generally from what i have seen so far lynching inactives only gets a town role killed.
i dont think lynching an inactive is the way to go in any mafia game and i have never ever used it as a reason. if your lynching inactives you might as well just lynch the most active.

2) Old plan, should the king be forced to follow the town's opinion? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=2#27
no the king needs to vote who he feels he personally needs to vote. this is the best aspect of the game that puts it in towns favor. a vote outside the influince of the scums grasp is.
3) New plan, do you agree? Disagree? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=6#101
I dont think the king should be forced to role claim. i think it only gives the scum extra information that they can use when there is absolutely no reason at all that town needs to know who the king is during a lynch debate.
In fact, it would be best if everyone made sure they have addressed, or will address these three issues

Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:39 GMT
#127
ebwop made it easier to read and fixed typos
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 10 2010 04:04 LSB wrote:
If coagulation doesn't do anything else besides the two posts that he has right now, I'm willing to support you.

Coagulation. If your town, please start giving input on the few ideas that have been presented. I want to hear your opinion on

1) Lynching inactives http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=2#30
generally from what i have seen so far lynching inactives only gets a town role killed.
i dont think lynching an inactive is the way to go in any mafia game and i have never ever used it as a reason. if your lynching inactives you might as well just lynch the most active.

2) Old plan, should the king be forced to follow the town's opinion? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=2#27
no the king needs to vote who he feels he personally needs to vote. this is the best aspect of the game that puts it in towns favor. a vote outside the influince of the scums grasp
3) New plan, do you agree? Disagree? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167304&currentpage=6#101
I dont think the king should be forced to role claim. i think it only gives the scum extra information that they can use when there is absolutely no reason at all that town needs to know who the king is during a lynch debate.
In fact, it would be best if everyone made sure they have addressed, or will address these three issues

LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 09 2010 22:40 GMT
#128
On November 10 2010 07:35 Coagulation wrote:
generally from what i have seen so far lynching inactives only gets a town role killed.
i dont think lynching an inactive is the way to go in any mafia game and i have never ever used it as a reason. if your lynching inactives you might as well just lynch the most active.

The difference is that an inactive does not help the town in away way shape or form. Mafia have no incentive to hit an inactive person as they are essentially sheep.
Inactive people will cause us to waste a lynch later on the road. I would say that inactive players are anti-town due to the problem with separating the wolves from the sheep.

no the king needs to vote who he feels he personally needs to vote. this is the best aspect of the game that puts it in towns favor. a vote outside the influince of the scums grasp is.

What if the scum is the king? Check back through the thread, I made some points on this already

I dont think the king should be forced to role claim. i think it only gives the scum extra information that they can use when there is absolutely no reason at all that town needs to know who the king is during a lynch debate.

Again, please look at the 'what if the scum is king' argument. We need to make sure the king doesn't just do anything he wants.
What extra information would the scum get once they know someone is king?
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
November 09 2010 22:42 GMT
#129
influEnce. Not influInce.

Jesus.

I have to admit, though, LSB has been kinda making me wonder all game... he's not playing the way I've come to expect out of him. Not enough to make me say "YO LETS KILL DIS MOTHAFUCKA" but enough to worry about him. A lot.
SUNSFANNED
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 09 2010 22:43 GMT
#130
On November 10 2010 07:42 BrownBear wrote:
influEnce. Not influInce.

Jesus.

I have to admit, though, LSB has been kinda making me wonder all game... he's not playing the way I've come to expect out of him. Not enough to make me say "YO LETS KILL DIS MOTHAFUCKA" but enough to worry about him. A lot.

On November 09 2010 11:56 LSB wrote:
Incase you haven't noticed. I'm going to try to cut my spammyness, I want to see how this will go


Basically I'm going to try to emulate Incog <3
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:47 GMT
#131
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 09 2010 22:50 GMT
#132
On November 10 2010 07:47 Coagulation wrote:
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.

Basically your saying if the king lynches a green, he's probably scum and should be executed the day after?
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:51 GMT
#133
again im pro town dont waste a lynch on me. also i will be more active now so you guys can all watch me carefully if thats the problem.

LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 09 2010 22:52 GMT
#134
All right, theres a few thing you need to do then.

Either 1) Contribute meaningfully to the discussion. This means not rehashing old points. And possibly coming up with new ideas or plans.

2) Scumhunt
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
November 09 2010 22:54 GMT
#135
On November 10 2010 07:47 Coagulation wrote:
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.


Are you kidding? If we scumhunt properly, we can get a scum king to work for us, or out himself as scum as well. It's a win-win situation.
SUNSFANNED
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 09 2010 22:55 GMT
#136
On November 10 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 07:47 Coagulation wrote:
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.

Basically your saying if the king lynches a green, he's probably scum and should be executed the day after?



nonono not at all.

theres a difference between lynching a green on accident that had scummy behaviors
and just lynching a green randomly who was clearly town roled
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
November 10 2010 00:15 GMT
#137
On November 10 2010 07:55 Coagulation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:
On November 10 2010 07:47 Coagulation wrote:
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.

Basically your saying if the king lynches a green, he's probably scum and should be executed the day after?



nonono not at all.

theres a difference between lynching a green on accident that had scummy behaviors
and just lynching a green randomly who was clearly town roled

On November 10 2010 02:59 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2010 19:29 CubEdIn wrote:
On November 09 2010 18:56 Hesmyrr wrote:
WTF are you keep talking about. So if there is 5-3 split and king goes, "oh guy with 3 votes seem more suspicious imma hammer him" do you have any idea what chaos would ensure thereafter? At the point where king makes a decision where town opinion is not so decisive as your example, everything goes to shit whether the king turns out to be town or not. Like I said, if the king has valid excuse behind his push, then it should be enough to convince the majority into believing his case.

In fact please explain how "t should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town" somehow turns into support for the statement "I disagree that king should listen to town."


Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying.

I'm sorry, but the king is a cool role. Why do we have to spoil it?
It's the player's chance.
IF there's a 5-4 vote split, (king's vote is on the 4) the king can lynch whoever he wants, no? That's fair, the imbalance is not that big.

If there's a 5-3 vote split (assuming one player died), then the king has one of those 3 votes. So in fact, it's just a 5-2 vote split (not counting king's vote), so the imbalance is fairly obvious. King has the option of going with the majority, or taking a huge risk and killing the "2-vote". If the 2-vote turns blue, then the king will have a lot to explain for, and it won't be an easy way out. Also, the other 2 voters will be in trouble.

So no, given the fact that there are only 9 players, I don't think there's any way for the king to explain un-town-like moves.
I fail to imagine a scenario where the king could justify a "gut feeling" blue kill, unless the votes are actually quite close (note the 5-4 split I was talking about earlier).


Remember, it is quiet easy to state a few reasons why someone is probably scum. In every single game, scum are accused, town are accused. Take this post in the Micro Game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=161868&currentpage=8#145
Each are reasons why the king could have killed someone.

If we allow the king to go against majority, all that's going to happen is the assassins are going to be able to crowned, write up an analysis against a random player. Post the analysis and get the town to waste a lynch.

I don't buy the 'the king should have fun' argument. Remember, the problem is that the King is a very big danger and hold lots of power. Play to win, not to 'roleplay'

Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
November 10 2010 01:39 GMT
#138
Ace Ace role list :<
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
November 10 2010 04:00 GMT
#139
whoa this looks cool
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
November 10 2010 04:14 GMT
#140
On November 10 2010 09:15 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 07:55 Coagulation wrote:
On November 10 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:
On November 10 2010 07:47 Coagulation wrote:
if scum is king
then there is nothing we can do about making his decision help town anyway regardless.

we will see who he is after the lynch right?
at that point he would probably be in alot of trouble if he didnt use his head and play pro town.
its a double edged sword but i think the benefits outweigh the cons.

Basically your saying if the king lynches a green, he's probably scum and should be executed the day after?



nonono not at all.

theres a difference between lynching a green on accident that had scummy behaviors
and just lynching a green randomly who was clearly town roled

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2010 02:59 LSB wrote:
On November 09 2010 19:29 CubEdIn wrote:
On November 09 2010 18:56 Hesmyrr wrote:
WTF are you keep talking about. So if there is 5-3 split and king goes, "oh guy with 3 votes seem more suspicious imma hammer him" do you have any idea what chaos would ensure thereafter? At the point where king makes a decision where town opinion is not so decisive as your example, everything goes to shit whether the king turns out to be town or not. Like I said, if the king has valid excuse behind his push, then it should be enough to convince the majority into believing his case.

In fact please explain how "t should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town" somehow turns into support for the statement "I disagree that king should listen to town."


Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying.

I'm sorry, but the king is a cool role. Why do we have to spoil it?
It's the player's chance.
IF there's a 5-4 vote split, (king's vote is on the 4) the king can lynch whoever he wants, no? That's fair, the imbalance is not that big.

If there's a 5-3 vote split (assuming one player died), then the king has one of those 3 votes. So in fact, it's just a 5-2 vote split (not counting king's vote), so the imbalance is fairly obvious. King has the option of going with the majority, or taking a huge risk and killing the "2-vote". If the 2-vote turns blue, then the king will have a lot to explain for, and it won't be an easy way out. Also, the other 2 voters will be in trouble.

So no, given the fact that there are only 9 players, I don't think there's any way for the king to explain un-town-like moves.
I fail to imagine a scenario where the king could justify a "gut feeling" blue kill, unless the votes are actually quite close (note the 5-4 split I was talking about earlier).


Remember, it is quiet easy to state a few reasons why someone is probably scum. In every single game, scum are accused, town are accused. Take this post in the Micro Game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=161868&currentpage=8#145
Each are reasons why the king could have killed someone.

If we allow the king to go against majority, all that's going to happen is the assassins are going to be able to crowned, write up an analysis against a random player. Post the analysis and get the town to waste a lynch.

I don't buy the 'the king should have fun' argument. Remember, the problem is that the King is a very big danger and hold lots of power. Play to win, not to 'roleplay'





how about its 100% Circumstantial.
Each scenario that occurs and actions chosen will need to be dissected and analyzed and acted upon based on the situation at hand.

there is no 1 overall general strategy that we can adhere to and have a perfect resolution every time.

is this better?
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