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On November 05 2010 07:23 youngminii wrote:
In case I'm not understanding what's going on properly:
DCL claimed Mad Hatter and has a bomb on Coag.
Town is lynching Coag.
Isn't this a bit counterintuitive? Why are we not lynching the next best target (Pandain)? I'm all for having Coag killed but that does screw over one of the bombs, assuming DCL isn't fakeclaiming.
By the way, the internet at my home got cut and isn't coming back up for over a week, I'll try to be as active as possible though.
Because with 2 mafia dead, we might have a shot of dropping KP tonight if we lynch a 100% confirmed.
Besides, not to be a finger-pointer, but we're not exactly 100% sure that DC isn't lying to give Coag one more day on this earth. 
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If DC is lying wouldn't that make him a scum and so we would have another person to lynch at ?
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The only potential issue I see at this point is if DC is roleblocked from moving his bomb, and he is vig hit.
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On November 05 2010 07:37 Beneather wrote:
If DC is lying wouldn't that make him a scum and so we would have another person to lynch at ?
It would be awkward and unlikely for a mafia player to pose as a MH, use another player as a target, and know that he (666) will be lynched/vigi'ed. It would be a loss for the mafia team to sacrifice a player so willingly. If 666 flips red then it doesn't mean that Coag is definitely red or not either. It could all be a hoax, though once again, (highly) unlikely.
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Also it doesn't seem like 666 cares about losing the bomb or not. He's not exactly throwing himself under the bus to keep Coag alive, from what I can tell.
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Yeah I got that, but if we lynch a mafia TODAY we can, maybe, drop the KP to 1+1? I don't know how this works but I'm just saying.
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it would only make sense if they were stalling for LYLO which they can't at this point, unless there is a suicide bomber gambit happening but that doesn't make sense either
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If the mad hatter (if he exists) is roleblocked and vig hit at night, do his bombs still explode?
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On November 05 2010 07:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
it would only make sense if they were stalling for LYLO which they can't at this point, unless there is a suicide bomber gambit happening but that doesn't make sense either
What's lylo?
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lynch or lose
it's the point of the game where an incorrect lynch would result in mafia having 50% or more voting power and thus the game can not be won by town
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On November 05 2010 06:58 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 05:43 L wrote:Re: Nemesis. This is the portion during which you get apologetic. On October 30 2010 03:12 Nemesis wrote:On October 30 2010 02:58 annul wrote:
its what, 2 votes? if the vote is close enough (like, 16-14) where my one vote will tip the scale, then perhaps it is not "stupid" to have voted it, right?
the mayoral role is not really a town leader position. it's an extra set of lives and a very weak voting power that can be overcome easily (and is 100% transparent). i am playing along with the leadership meme because hey it makes sense, but think about what POWER the mayor has. the only power it has is protection and a weak voting boost. any other leadership that the town chooses to assign to the mayor player is entirely on their own volition.
why do we want to give death protection to a mason? there is no real reason we want to keep the masons alive above someone else who can actually affect things, right? so he has a circle, cool, what does that do for us and why would his death hurt the town, per se?
if i died it would be much worse than a random mason dying, that is all i am saying. are there others out there with roles better suited to protection? probably. but they aren't talking, so i will. My bad, it seems that I misunderstood the mayor role. I thought they get to lynch one extra person.  Lol, I made a misunderstanding early in the game and make on post that i made a mistake and that makes me apologetic early on in the game. You are one funny man.After repeated oneliners clarifying rules to other players with no submissions of your own, you start trying to produce real content around the 300 post mark. You then realize your arguments are pretty ridiculous and back off quickly. Can you at least please point that out. Looking at around the 300 post, my posts are about clarifying people's candidacy for mayor and I was asking them how they can disprove my doubts. I wasn't really arguing.Its not super incriminating, but its odd that someone who's staring at the rules wouldn't know that the mayor gets an extra vote and not an extra lynch. I am pretty new to mafia(although I've played it irl), so I don't exactly know all the roles and what they do, which is why I was asking about the rules and stuff. This is my second game here and this game has a different format than last game.Around the 2k post mark you shift back to one liners and ask other people to do analysis on certain players. You say you're too lazy to do it yourself. I only asked an analysis on misder as far as I remember, how does that turn into "players"?You also trip yourself up when you state that you're all for lynching inactives to get them to post, but then you turn around immediately and say that LAL makes no sense because it targets liars rather than scum. Why use one heuristic over the other? You never really make the argument. And that's not just a single point; there are multiple posts of yours on this front. I never made the argument, because no one asked me too. Those were during different phases of the game. I had forgotten about inactives as most of them have died already at that point. Inactives don't contribute to the game at all if they are townies. It also allows for a place for mafia to hide, and we have no way of knowing which is mafia and which is not.
Lying on the other hand can be beneficial to town if used correctly, and if someone is caught in a lie, you just have to read the intention of the lie to determine whether that lie was supposed to benefit the townie or mafia. Aeres' lie was clearly meant to benefit the town even if it was dumb which was why I was against lynching him.
Does that answer your question?The 2200 series of posts are pretty much a rehash. Against LAL, targetting inactives and clearing up rules questions. Mostly in one liners. In the 2300 section, he pushes for cube to prot DC, which is reasonable regardless of his alignment. The 2500 are a bit more interesting. There's a focus on M-rus and asking pandain to confirm himself + questions about double lynches. This is prior to pandain having a bus driven at him. The rest of the posts are literally one liners regarding inactives or in another instance just a quote from DrH. There's a LOT of chaff in these posts. Look above. Anything suspicious about asking how the game works?Nemesis opens into the 2600 section by stating that he'll look bad if pandain flips red. There's more one liners including a one liner rebuke of my first post, then s'more another question for pandain, regarding how he can confirm himself. Overall Nemesis's concrete actions aren't unreasonable after the halfway point during his posts. But there's a problem: he doesn't really do much even when he is posting. There's a lot (a LOT) of one-two line posts that parrot other players, and the majority of his posting seems to be a combination of talking about the rules, and lightly incriminating people who are unlikely to retaliate. I am just observing for now. I am just "lightly" incriminating people for now as I haven't decided to lynch them. If I decide to lynch them, then I'll be more aggresive. That's just my play style.Anyways, Take a skim through his posts and tell me if you agree. Overall, you seem to EXAGGERATE a lot of the stuff that I said. Really? I make one post about making a misunderstanding and you call that "early on, he was pretty apologetic." You might also want to include more quotes of my post if you want to have a proper analysis. I don't really know what to think of you at this point as you seem to have mostly skimmed over my post and make your opinions based on that. Since you were subbed in, I will give you the benefit of a doubt that you just didn't understand the situation at the time my early posts were made.
If anything, I understated the majority of the claims I made.
I grouped most of your posts together by post number in the thread, and they're readily accessible here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Nemesis&gb=date
Trying to tell me that you're 'just observing' or whatnot doesn't explain why you're making 1 liner me-toos chaff posts. Additionally, if you are just observing why would you be lightly incriminating people? Seems like you just want to have future targets to pick off later without taking responsibility for throwing suspicion on them.
Its silly that your defense here only reinforces the scum-like qualities that were pointed out.
To reply to a few points of yours:
"I didn't bother making the argument because no one asked me to"
Yeah, that's because you were me-tooing me. That doesn't cut it. Its a way of trying to appear active while trying to not take any responsibility.
"I only asked an analysis on misder as far as I remember, how does that turn into "players"?"
The important part isn't the plural, its the fact that you, with all your free observing time, decided it was a good idea to ask other people to do work instead of do it yourself. Its pretty a pretty standard way to play as mafia; tell the town to do useful things, but rejoice silently as they don't bother doing it. That way the town's at a net neutral position, but you end up looking both active and pro-town without actually having contributed anything.
If you were busy in the slightest, this might be excusable, but you readily admit you're just sitting around doing nothing for the sake of watching people.
"I am pretty new to mafia(although I've played it irl), so I don't exactly know all the roles and what they do, which is why I was asking about the rules and stuff."
Very odd excuse given your prior posting, when you were almost zealous in your will to clear up rule issues. Again, like I said, this isn't conclusive proof that you're mafia, but it sets up the claim that I was really hoping you wouldn't make; the "i'm bad at mafia" claim. The clueless newbie persona is a rather common one with new players who are on mafia's side; its easy, low maintenance, and it rarely brings attention to yourself.
So yeah, this last post just made my suspicions worse, given that you confirmed pretty much every tentative theme I had noticed in your posts.
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On November 05 2010 09:02 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 06:58 Nemesis wrote:On November 05 2010 05:43 L wrote:Re: Nemesis. This is the portion during which you get apologetic. On October 30 2010 03:12 Nemesis wrote:On October 30 2010 02:58 annul wrote:
its what, 2 votes? if the vote is close enough (like, 16-14) where my one vote will tip the scale, then perhaps it is not "stupid" to have voted it, right?
the mayoral role is not really a town leader position. it's an extra set of lives and a very weak voting power that can be overcome easily (and is 100% transparent). i am playing along with the leadership meme because hey it makes sense, but think about what POWER the mayor has. the only power it has is protection and a weak voting boost. any other leadership that the town chooses to assign to the mayor player is entirely on their own volition.
why do we want to give death protection to a mason? there is no real reason we want to keep the masons alive above someone else who can actually affect things, right? so he has a circle, cool, what does that do for us and why would his death hurt the town, per se?
if i died it would be much worse than a random mason dying, that is all i am saying. are there others out there with roles better suited to protection? probably. but they aren't talking, so i will. My bad, it seems that I misunderstood the mayor role. I thought they get to lynch one extra person. Lol, I made a misunderstanding early in the game and make on post that i made a mistake and that makes me apologetic early on in the game. You are one funny man.After repeated oneliners clarifying rules to other players with no submissions of your own, you start trying to produce real content around the 300 post mark. You then realize your arguments are pretty ridiculous and back off quickly. Can you at least please point that out. Looking at around the 300 post, my posts are about clarifying people's candidacy for mayor and I was asking them how they can disprove my doubts. I wasn't really arguing.Its not super incriminating, but its odd that someone who's staring at the rules wouldn't know that the mayor gets an extra vote and not an extra lynch. I am pretty new to mafia(although I've played it irl), so I don't exactly know all the roles and what they do, which is why I was asking about the rules and stuff. This is my second game here and this game has a different format than last game.Around the 2k post mark you shift back to one liners and ask other people to do analysis on certain players. You say you're too lazy to do it yourself. I only asked an analysis on misder as far as I remember, how does that turn into "players"?You also trip yourself up when you state that you're all for lynching inactives to get them to post, but then you turn around immediately and say that LAL makes no sense because it targets liars rather than scum. Why use one heuristic over the other? You never really make the argument. And that's not just a single point; there are multiple posts of yours on this front. I never made the argument, because no one asked me too. Those were during different phases of the game. I had forgotten about inactives as most of them have died already at that point. Inactives don't contribute to the game at all if they are townies. It also allows for a place for mafia to hide, and we have no way of knowing which is mafia and which is not.
Lying on the other hand can be beneficial to town if used correctly, and if someone is caught in a lie, you just have to read the intention of the lie to determine whether that lie was supposed to benefit the townie or mafia. Aeres' lie was clearly meant to benefit the town even if it was dumb which was why I was against lynching him.
Does that answer your question?The 2200 series of posts are pretty much a rehash. Against LAL, targetting inactives and clearing up rules questions. Mostly in one liners. In the 2300 section, he pushes for cube to prot DC, which is reasonable regardless of his alignment. The 2500 are a bit more interesting. There's a focus on M-rus and asking pandain to confirm himself + questions about double lynches. This is prior to pandain having a bus driven at him. The rest of the posts are literally one liners regarding inactives or in another instance just a quote from DrH. There's a LOT of chaff in these posts. Look above. Anything suspicious about asking how the game works?Nemesis opens into the 2600 section by stating that he'll look bad if pandain flips red. There's more one liners including a one liner rebuke of my first post, then s'more another question for pandain, regarding how he can confirm himself. Overall Nemesis's concrete actions aren't unreasonable after the halfway point during his posts. But there's a problem: he doesn't really do much even when he is posting. There's a lot (a LOT) of one-two line posts that parrot other players, and the majority of his posting seems to be a combination of talking about the rules, and lightly incriminating people who are unlikely to retaliate. I am just observing for now. I am just "lightly" incriminating people for now as I haven't decided to lynch them. If I decide to lynch them, then I'll be more aggresive. That's just my play style.Anyways, Take a skim through his posts and tell me if you agree. Overall, you seem to EXAGGERATE a lot of the stuff that I said. Really? I make one post about making a misunderstanding and you call that "early on, he was pretty apologetic." You might also want to include more quotes of my post if you want to have a proper analysis. I don't really know what to think of you at this point as you seem to have mostly skimmed over my post and make your opinions based on that. Since you were subbed in, I will give you the benefit of a doubt that you just didn't understand the situation at the time my early posts were made. If anything, I understated the majority of the claims I made. I grouped most of your posts together by post number in the thread, and they're readily accessible here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Nemesis&gb=dateTrying to tell me that you're 'just observing' or whatnot doesn't explain why you're making 1 liner me-toos chaff posts. Additionally, if you are just observing why would you be lightly incriminating people? Seems like you just want to have future targets to pick off later without taking responsibility for throwing suspicion on them. I am trying to get some information out of them, is that a bad thing?Its silly that your defense here only reinforces the scum-like qualities that were pointed out. To reply to a few points of yours: "I didn't bother making the argument because no one asked me to" Yeah, that's because you were me-tooing me. That doesn't cut it. Its a way of trying to appear active while trying to not take any responsibility. Lol, let me give you an analogy on your crappy point: If you were arguing about how good this movie is a week ago, and someone claims that the worst movie you have ever seen is "the best movie" ever, would you concentrate on comparing it to the 'good' movie that you saw last week or would you concentrate on points on why that movie is crap? Not the best analogy ever, but you get my point. Wtf would be the point of me trying to compare LAL to lynch inactive. I wasn't trying to make people switch to lynch inactive 'mode' at that time, I was just trying to get them to steer away from that direction."I only asked an analysis on misder as far as I remember, how does that turn into "players"?" The important part isn't the plural, its the fact that you, with all your free observing time, decided it was a good idea to ask other people to do work instead of do it yourself. Its pretty a pretty standard way to play as mafia; tell the town to do useful things, but rejoice silently as they don't bother doing it. That way the town's at a net neutral position, but you end up looking both active and pro-town without actually having contributed anything. No, it is important as you were exagerating shit that isn't true.If you were busy in the slightest, this might be excusable, but you readily admit you're just sitting around doing nothing for the sake of watching people. "I am pretty new to mafia(although I've played it irl), so I don't exactly know all the roles and what they do, which is why I was asking about the rules and stuff." Very odd excuse given your prior posting, when you were almost zealous in your will to clear up rule issues. Again, like I said, this isn't conclusive proof that you're mafia, but it sets up the claim that I was really hoping you wouldn't make; the "i'm bad at mafia" claim. The clueless newbie persona is a rather common one with new players who are on mafia's side; its easy, low maintenance, and it rarely brings attention to yourself. I didn't say I was bad at mafia, I just wanted some clarification on some rules that I didn't know how it worked.So yeah, this last post just made my suspicions worse, given that you confirmed pretty much every tentative theme I had noticed in your posts.
And yes if you actually want to know I am actually quite busy right now irl. I have midterms last week and I have one last midterm this wednesday(I'll probably go inactive around tuesday). I check tl mafia everytime I take a break from studying 'hence my one liner posts.' I didn't mention this, because I know that you are just going to use this against me saying "you're just making up excuses now." But I guess it doesn't matter eitherway as you still try to paint me as red either way.
This is the last time I'm replying to you as to not shit up this thread like what happened during the Pandain/Doctor H/Infinitestory circle. I feel like you will just be making the same points over and over again. You have made your point. I have made my point, there's nothing left that I have to argue about.
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Don't have any time, just back from work today. Skimmed the thread and the only matter that seems to be up for debate is coag now or let bombs take care of him.
I think we should just lynch him now. A bird in the hand and all that jazz. Considering we have no idea what roles are out there, its just safer to cash in our guaranteed maf lynch now imo.
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Oh and theres no reason not to vote for a double lynch at this stage I think, so I would FoS anyone that isn't voting for it.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 05 2010 09:56 deconduo wrote:
Oh and theres no reason not to vote for a double lynch at this stage I think, so I would FoS anyone that isn't voting for it.
so i went over the thread to see who this included, and I noticed I myself forgot to. fuck
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On November 05 2010 09:57 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 09:56 deconduo wrote:
Oh and theres no reason not to vote for a double lynch at this stage I think, so I would FoS anyone that isn't voting for it. so i went over the thread to see who this included, and I noticed I myself forgot to. fuck
It looks like a double lynch is appropriate and now I am now voting for a double lynch.
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Pandain, I was expecting you to make some kind of response post to everyone that are suspicious of you, but you didn't. Before day3, you are one of the most active poster and one of the best analyzer in the thread. You were battling with DrH head to head and never shown weakness. It is not like you to not counter argue the suspicions pointing at you unless you are contented with Coag being lynched today and you die at a later time. Coag, a very aggressive poster, also seem wanting to protect you by not doing what he can to label you are a better lynch than him. It really makes me believe that you are highly likely to be a mafia and that your group is ok that Coag instead of you to be lynched today.
I hope I am not too late to make this post. I beg that those who didn't vote for Pandain to really consider what I state above. If that make sense to you, please change your vote to Pandain.
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YES PLZ CHANGE YOUR VOTE TO PANDAIN.
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On November 05 2010 11:49 Coagulation wrote:
YES PLZ CHANGE YOUR VOTE TO PANDAIN.
Starts with you first.
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On November 05 2010 08:00 Infundibulum wrote:
If the mad hatter (if he exists) is roleblocked and vig hit at night, do his bombs still explode?
EDIT:Nope
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EPT
