TL Mafia XXXI - Page 3

On October 07 2010 14:13 ~OpZ~ wrote:
...........How......Does.....That....Clear.....Anyone.

Omg. Weed out the greens? Are you kidding me? Feed the mafia every blue on a silver platter?
Argh.

And how am I even possible mafia? Both you and Misder have said this but I would like some proof.

Also Dr.H, my suspects are

happyfairytale/BC (thanks to BM posting HFT's contradiction),

BM - actually...why are we not lynching him. We should lynch him. He started Prot lynch, and is probably acting insane to live.

Not so much Pandain, Drag_ and King seem pretty town to me.

InfiniteStory seems to be playing better now. Need him to post his suspects with some argument though.
Crisis and Ghrur....Possible or possible new mistake. Jumping into lynches with no reasoning is bad and we need to put them in the spotlight. Nobody has been mentioning them (Ghrur might of posted on second thought, FML i'm so tired)

But that's who and why. Divinek should be online right now actually....

On October 07 2010 15:44 Bill Murray wrote:
Well, BC and OpZ still don't realize the townie pm is phrased "Town"
not citizen
not townie
Town.

They don't realize this. Why would they not realize that?

@Drag_ I am green, and on the side of good. Do not question me, bro.

On October 08 2010 00:55 XeliN wrote:
My PM was from Brownbear OpZ

and Amber I am not siding with Bill in any way, all I am saying is I consider him a Town player. That doesn't mean I am agreeing with his arguments, suspicions or general style of play, but from what he has typed he is fairly clearly a Green, town player.

On October 08 2010 05:22 XeliN wrote:
I'll make a concise post addressing all of you wonderful people questioning me in a little bit, currently I am waiting on a piece of information.

To briefly outline a few things however.

I believe Bill to be 100% Green Town
I am suspicious of the assertion that both Brown and Artanis sent out role PM's, my inclination is to think only Brown did
My vote on Bloody was initially a more sincere one, now it is a placeholder whilst I evaluate, if it makes any of you feel more comfortable I'll change it to myself
Divinek likes to say fuck

On October 08 2010 05:30 drag_ wrote:
There are so many little sub-arguments going on right now I'm really struggling to make heads or tails of anything. That said, while BM may be a tool, I think it's more important to crack down on inactive people. In a 25 person game it's really easy to slip under the radar. I feel like focussing on BM is just a waste of time atm.

On October 08 2010 05:42 Pandain wrote:
An Analysis of Bill Murray:
Summary:
Overall, BM, you have been unproductive, contradictory, blatantly obvious, using logical fallacies, and all the while under the protection of "I'm BM." Yet in the first post I quoted you said you only do the "one line spam" when your scum(or in this case VI) However, I do think there is a high chance of him being VI.

Therefore, I propose we lynch someone else and vigi him tonight. Also, in the scenario in which he doesn't die, we lynch him. This way we get rid of all possible avenues. If he is VI, he will be killed unless mafia get a lucky roleblock(or unlucky, since they will lose next day) or a medic is really "interesting" and protects him. But that won't happen. If he is mafia, then he will either die or be lynched tommorow. If he is town, he will just die. But in the scenario he is either GF or we have no vigi, I also propose we vote double Lynch for tommorow, for him and another person, or just 2 new suspects. I feel we will have far enough evidence to analyze.
I believe I have shown sufficient proof of BM being anti town, and urge you all to consider and comment. I will tackle the "Oh BM always does this" by analyzing his posts in previous games as mafia and town. Hopefully that will be done by tommorow at the VERY latest, hopefully by today.

His posts this game:




Pre game. Note this very much. Now, in Team Melee Mafia Bill Murray actually made some sense and had decent sized posts, and definitely didn't spam. In his own words, he's playing his own scum game.




Basically the only post in day 1. RL issues can occur, but note that he's just making an excuse for inactivity. Now, I believe that he had RL stuff for a number of reasons:
1.If we were going after inactives, why would he seem so inactive? Even though he has an excuse, it might've been better for a full post. So slightly unlikely.
2.His mafia brothers probably would have been like "OMG BM HURRY UP AND POST SO THEY DONT LYNCH YOU." Note that this whole post and its explanation revolve around wifom, but I believe logical wifom. Obviously does not clear him, however.



*yawn* Says nothing, but its alright, as long as he makes a great post right?



BAD! BAD BILL MURRAY! What is this? He gives three opinions in one sentence without backing any of it up. How is he happy with amber or I? Why does he like kingjames? Posting without content, its the same as voting without a reason. Both scum like.



Doesn't make sense, first of all if I am a detective I wouldn't know yet(can't check.)



Here is his long "informed" post. Couple of things to note:
1.He says Dr. H is probably town. Compare this with his recent accusation of him, along with opz and BC. Now, opinions can change, so I'll have more to say as I review more posts.
2. A series of logical fallacies and random conclusions from facts.


Opz asked Misder to share his suspect list. Therefore, they are buddying and both mafia despite the fact Opz has been suscipcious of Misder this whole game. Not logical.


Starts hatin' on the strategy and talking about policy, claiming they are "cluttering up the thread." Yet he spams just in the last 5 pages like cwazy. Also he tells them to stop hunting for the DT yet publicly announces I'm the DT. IN THE SAME POST!




His evidence against Proctatorium. Let's see his evidence against him:
1. Makes pro town posts
2.Smurf
3.Fishing for the DT(How? And you just claimed I'm the DT, yet bashed Proctat for "trying to find the DT and who he was." Utter hypocricy.
4.How would you know I'm DT?

I am in utter shock how Protact got lynched. It was horrible, and should've ended the game if not for Brown Bear's mercy. All of these points are illogical and in error, to the extreme. Bill Murray knows better. Even though he may seem stupid and is sometimes illogical, he's not to this extreme. This is scum/VI BM.




Great evidence. Are you TRYING to get yourself lynched? Notice he's making so many logical fallacies. And noticable too. Recently he's just started random spamming and claiming to lynch people because they claimed "town". I'm so confused by him.




Alright, you were able to after a while. Where's your case?



*sighs* You claimed he was mafia(or one really good VI). We expected him not to be VI. For all purposes, BM got a townie lynched, not only that but a good one too. Mafia doesn't know who the VI is, so for all intents and purposes if mafia pushed forward this lynch it would be aimed at a very experienced town. Also notes he said he knew he was anti town, yet one of the reasons he voted for him was because he made pro town posts. What the fadoodle?



Two posts before the previous one here, Brownbear clearly said the game will not end. In fact, just after posting it, BM would've been able to see it. In fact, Brown bear responds to something else and BM responds to that. Note this was 5 minutes after Brownbear clearly said we were not restarting, and BM responded in between. So it's 100% certain BM knew the game would not end. So why would he claim town?
1.He's mafia
2.He's VI
3. He has a horrible disease which makes him have short term memory loss every 5 minutes.

Bill Murray does not make sense.



For rizzles? Look back at that previous post my nizzle. Then start thinking out of your grizzle some more. Note he claims feeling bad for lynching him, yet now he proudly proclaims it. Contradictions everywhere, my friend.



Remember that first post of yours? How you were becoming more content oriented and now only spammed as scum(or perhaps VI)? Eh?




Pure wifom and speculative, but I thought it might be interesting to note he said VIs instead of the singular VI. Implying theres more than one VI. Still, just wordplay analysis.


+ Show Spoiler +
Spoilered for your convienance. This whole post is interesting, so let's analyze it.
"Let's see who is high tier enough to not hit a blue."
Couple of things wrong with this:
1. Because they did not hit a blue, they are bad at blue sniping. False.
2. Because of this, they must be so high tier so they didn't hit a blue. False. Why the fadoodle would they not hit a blue?
3.BC would be high tier enough to not hit a blue. False. In BM's own game BC basically led the mafia, leading to blue snipe after blue snipe.

As you may note we are seeing a series of logical fallacies and incorrect reasoning. To the extreme. Note the process above. It does not make sense at all. People may just say "Oh, he's BM and he's just stupid." But that's how he won penalty mafia, and if someone has gone to this extreme they are not pro town.
Again he also claims BC is fishing for blues, yet what the frick? He is not at all. There is no way you could get that out of what Proctat was saying, or BC. He's being stupid, for the sake of being stupid.

However, the contradiction is the (only) valuable part of this, and while interesting, is too easily explained by a myriad of what happened in RL, and we do not have happy tail with us. BM is proving far more interesting anyway.




To Dr. H. Starts to insinuate he's scum on no basis.



So much that's wrong with this. First of all, you should've lost us the game. You lynched a person that should've seemed pro town, but because your'e either scum or mafia you're playing stupid and spammy. Unfortunately, you got alot of new players to support you in day 1. This shall not happen again . Also still thinks Doctor H is mafia, despite nothing having changed from when he thought he was town.




Right after a previous post. Stop trying to prove your' town by finding "tells" in YOUR OWN posts. Anyone knows this is pointless, so why are you doing it? Because you're mafia, or VI(mostly VI).



Stupid stupid stupid argument. Made up of wifom("If I was mafia I wouldn't have the balls to say this. This is too obvious."). Made up of stupidity(let's open roleclaim!) Made up of no content( Just trust me.)



This post sets me off. It's like he's asking to be lynched. If he was town, why would he asked to be lynched? In addition, he can't know who the 3 mafia already are. He's asking Dr. H to lynch him(still think's hes mafia, remember that!). The only reason he would want that is if he is VI.



Oh, now he claims Doctor H might be cleared. Yet shouldn't his plan confirm or condemn them?



Fail logic. First off, he fishes for mad hatter(ACTUALLY does), outright saying "Just claim to me. Especially if you are inexpierenced and need guidance" Don't fall for this trick, new folk.
Also, how the frick does Brownbear saying "Protact is an amazing player" make there be only one VI. Right now BM is just trying to use a tactic I call "Appeal to Impulse". This is where he says a point, attempts to get someone to do something, and quickly before anyone can really talk about it. Here he's just spamming "everyone claim now! Next post! Do it!"

Also, note in his plan Blues would also put "Town" or "townie". OF course, according to Opz Artanis sent him Townie. But don't claim this plan means he's town, it catches the blues as well. And now he has been trying to convince the new people to claim as soon as possible. When I say claim, note I don't just mean the role claim. By claiming, BM the Scum would know if they were blue as well IF he trusted the majority. From there he could work out the blues. For he himself wouldn't know the exact wording if he was scum. Really the only reason he would start to begin such an insane plan is if he knew it was stupid, he knew it would cause controversy. He's red or VI.

The plan should be discarded. We can analyze it for why it would've been sent out, but please not how people respond. And according to Opz, theres more than one way people got it. So it's really useless. Most importantly, it ruins the spirit of the game, and makes babies go berserk when they see it and go emo later in life.

Now begins the mass use of "Appeal to Impulse"
+ Show Spoiler +

Now, after all that we see he reveals his"Majestic plan"



I''m sorry, but this plan is and was horrible, and disproved because it was revealed people were sent town or townie. In addition, you're giving mafia a 50% chance of getting it "right"(which turned out to be either). I won't comment anymore because of what Brownbear said.

But seriously, I'm disgusted. I'm not usually this strong about an issue, but this ruins the spirit of the game. And I'm saddened with myself that I even have to comment this much into viewing why you might propose it, however far away from actually comparing pms might be. It's a good plan, but against the spirit of the game.

On October 08 2010 06:13 LSB wrote:
My idea for dealing for Bill Murray. (This is for figuring out if he is red/VI)

Okay, instead of killing him today, we declare that we are going to kill him tomorrow, with a double lynch.

Mafia knows that we will kill Bill tomorrow, if Bill is VI, Mafia will have to kill him tonight or else they will lose.
But if Bill is Mafia, mafia can't kill Bill, and we would know that he is red.

This way we get to have mafia waste on of their hits or lose.

On October 08 2010 06:29 LSB wrote:

Oops. Didn't notice his posts

Okay, I'll carry on his torch then.
This is something we should rely on. The benefits are pretty clear. Mafia has to use up one of their lynchs.

The point isn't whether or not the town is going to commit suicide. We will lynch BM tomorrow because we will know he is Mafia.
But if Bill Murray isn't mafia, Mafia has to kill Bill Murray or they lose. The Mafia plays to win

On October 08 2010 06:38 LSB wrote:

We can double lynch, that's why we wouldn't waste a lynch.

Also, the point is, BM won't be Vanilla Town when we put his head up to the chopping block, he'd either be dead by Scum hands, or he would be red.

On October 08 2010 06:45 LSB wrote:

We wouldn't be placing the game in the hands of the mafia. The mafia would want to kill BM at night as much as we do.

The point is, the only reason why the mafia wouldn't kill BM is if BM is mafia.

On October 08 2010 06:50 LSB wrote:


I find it quiet hard to believe that there are two VI's in this game.

So what would we do about BM? We can't just ignore him

On October 08 2010 06:56 XeliN wrote:
Ok I was going to try to write a large response post to some of the things people have said about me, but I'm finding it difficult currently due to the ambiguity of the assertions, there have been some statements such as "sticking his neck out" "sided with bill" and other such things.

I know this will sound a little hmm arrogant or presumptuous maybe, but for the sake of clarity: if anyone has any specific questions about my play, conduct, arguments or actions that they would like me to directly answer then please state them clearly and I will do so .

I'm the most likely to be lynched atm, so plz humor me xD

On October 08 2010 06:57 LSB wrote:

Small concern: What if it turns out BM is vet? We lose Vigi powers.

Big concern: Having the Vig kill BM doesn't help out the town at all

It's better to have the Mafia do the dirty work for us than for us to have to do it ourselves.
Essentially we are reducing mafia KP for a night. More people are alive. Yay!

On October 08 2010 07:08 LSB wrote:


Bill Murray is going to be dead no matter what if he is mafia. Doesn't change the situation for the Mafia at all O.O
If Bill Murray is mafia, mafia is probably cutting losses right now and bandwagoning him.

On the other hand, if Bill Murray isn't mafia, they will kill him. They have to decide between losing the game and using a KP. Obviously they are going to use a KP. If they sit back and laugh they will lose.

On October 08 2010 07:21 LSB wrote:

We both agree that if Bill Murray is mafia, there is no difference in the plan.
The point of disagreement is what the mafia would do.

Okay, I have no idea how you're approaching the problem. But I think we aren't on the same page. I'll just explain it again. Think of incentives from the Mafia's point of view.


Assume we are following through with our plan.
It's Night 2.
Mafia knows that Bill Murray isn't one of them.
They either have two options

1) Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is a townie, its business as usually. If Bill Murray is VI they adverted disaster
2) Don't Kill Bill Murray, if Bill Murray is townie, nothing really happens as the town will just double lynch. If Bill Murrary is VI, the town would lynch Bill Murrary, thinking that Bill Murrary is red.

Mafia will find that option 1 is preferable. Option 2 they have a chance of loosing. Option 1 they kill someone that doesn't reveal to the town much information about the mafia.



As for the Town.
It's Day 3.
From our incentive analysis, we realize that if Bill Murrary was green/VI, mafia would have killed him. So if Bill Murrary is green, we wake up with his death post.

If Bill Murrary was red, Mafia wouldn't have killed him. So we know that he is red. So we lynch him and we take out a mafia.

What this plan does is exploit the fact that the mafia knows whether or not Bill Murray is red
Mafia basically knows Bill Murray's role. We don't. So we force the mafia to reveal this information.

On October 08 2010 08:30 Amber[LighT] wrote:



I agree with this 100%. This will give us a better answer then having a vigilante kill him. Mafia will want to make sure that he's taken out if they even think he's the village idiot. It doesn't guarantee that there's a possibility of ignoring the thread and going for someone else, but it would seem highly likely for them to halt losing altogether. (would be so embarrassing for town and mafia to have 2 VI's lynched)

Killing BM today should be out of the question, and though I don't really want Xelin to be lynched he hasn't contributed and doesn't even want to explain or defend his position. Hopefully at the least he will flip a townie, mafia if we're really lucky, but I doubt it.

On October 08 2010 10:21 kane]deth[ wrote:
I suppose proof was a bad word to use there.
The accusations that he made against the 'higher tier' players baselessly and his general aggression. Basically the post that Ghrur made. Currently he's just making trouble by trying to lynch players at seemingly random.

I'm also lost on one thing; is the only way to find a players posts is to find a post of the player and then click profile?