EPT##Vote Hesmyrr
Pick Your Power Mafia 2! - Page 29
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
##Vote Hesmyrr | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:40 SouthRawrea wrote: Got mine already. I've got Vanilla Serial Killer? O.o Edit: Okay now what? I actually think that he just didn't read the rules that well. This could very well be a joke, and its possible. Just noting this. On August 21 2010 02:35 SouthRawrea wrote: I sent numbers :O blah On August 21 2010 03:42 SouthRawrea wrote: I would have to disagree about Vengeful Player. As long as the VP keeps their cool, they can make the choice to kill or not to kill. If we somehow end up being split between the VP and another player, we can have both of them die. As well, if we're stuck in a 1 mafia 2 townie situation, VP claims and we lynch them. Thus we get two shots at killing the mafia as opposed to one. (We still win if only 1 villager and 0 maf are left standing) If a mafia decides to somehow counter claim VP in any situation where they claim, we have a good lynch target for once we get multiple suspects. VP is very useful and can act as a normal townie if they choose meaning it's a pro-town role. Arguring for use of the Vengful player, when Radfield had already pointed out that extra kp is bad. Here his argument basically is" We just have to trust him. " this leads to some evidence of him being mafia(as serial killer wouldn't have that much use for this role. ) VP is definitely not a pro town role. On August 21 2010 03:46 SouthRawrea wrote: Another small point but pardoner can be good if they're in town circle. If somehow mafioso starts a lynch against a townie that the circle knows is confirmed (if town circle has no huge town influence yet) then pardoner can pardon, thus being confirmed as a townie and then be the mouthpiece for town circle. Circumstantially dependent but has potential to be very good. The only problem is the pardoner has to keep their cool. Seriously? Arguing for another anti-town role. Pardoner is only good for mafia as you can't tell if someone is innocent or not when you pardon them. The only way you could know for certain is if you were mafia. Therefore, pardoner is a strictly Mafia role. On August 21 2010 04:21 SouthRawrea wrote: Err.. The 2 vil 1 maf scenario stands and the other scenario still stands if there is a 50/50 shot at getting the mafia, not if the town nonchalantly assumes if there is a 50/50 shot. I'm saying that they should otherwise just pretend to be a normal townie. Sure it's not a power role but it's 100% town favoured. Another argument for Vengful player. Again, his arguments are 1.We should just trust him. 2. Its good when we have 3 players. Do you know how many days it is until that late in the game? Do you know how low a chance it will even get there? On August 21 2010 04:58 SouthRawrea wrote: What if mafia deliberately takes pro-town roles away from us? We do NOT want mafia taking away roles such as Role Cop, Bullet Bill, Alignment Cop and Jack of All Trades. Anything that adds KP to the mafia is deadly like the Compulsive Vigilante. An especially dangerous role is Day Vigilante as a mafia might just suicide to get rid of an open town circle just before the day ends. Basically, as town we have to take all the good roles first. CONTRADICTS HIMSELF! Note the bolded sentence. Very scummy. On August 21 2010 05:15 SouthRawrea wrote: It'd be extremely beneficial for town and for any players thinking of taking traitor to avoid taking it. If you join the maf, you don't add a KP but just make it harder for us to kill the entire maf team off which actually is fairly easy if confirmed people are already established and we have our investigative roles alive. If you end up picking a power role however, you're taking a possibly significant role away from the opposing team, giving your team a bigger benefit than just adding a member. (Basically if you join maf by choosing traitor, you're not really helping them. If you stick with town by picking another role, you add a potentially good role to town/take one away from the opposing team. Not to mention if mafia is shafted with having one of the last picks, they may end up getting traitor which would be completely useless to them. Another superbonus :D) Stick with town. Fight team fight! Huh. Says the person who was going to pick traitor. Another contradiction. On August 21 2010 06:20 SouthRawrea wrote: It's very possible he switched up the types of town power roles to better variants (ex: Sane cops) which would give slight advantages to town. We also have 1 more player than the last PYP. However, this is nothing to jump on as it is most likely that you just considered the chances of that happening negligible. Speculation. even bit confused about this. Is he saying darth is innocent? If so, when we lynch SR, keep an eye on darth. On August 21 2010 11:22 SouthRawrea wrote: Changing numbers or at least I'm attempting to. Watching Full Metal Jacket again and reading Citi.zen's post got me paranoid. No content. On August 22 2010 01:52 SouthRawrea wrote: My numbas haz been changed my fellows. Regardless of anything Radfield says, any role except traitor would be beneficial to town as it either takes a role away from mafia or gets us a good role. Priorities are the only thing we can concentrate on rather than pro-town or pro-mafia roles. There really isn't a way in which we can secure the first picks for ourself either as some have already mentioned. SK and Mafia can just pick an earlier number without us knowing. We cannot let mafia know both the draft order and the order of our choosing. If they do, they become familiar with the roles of certain people which will allow them to more easily pin-point the good townie roles. (Essentially: Revealing part of our hand makes it easier for blue snipes. It's like Blackjack where you kinda get an idea of how well the other player is doing based on the card that he has flipped) First off, no argument is good when it starts off "Regardless of what my opponet says". Second, again saying traitor is not beneficial to town. WHY ARE YOU PICKING IT? Are you that anti town? Againk this whole argument was later countered as well. He says "Oh, its easier to blue snipe." that's why we had percentage and weighted roles. On August 22 2010 05:51 SouthRawrea wrote: I think we should wait till we get our actual roles first. When SR flips red, look at citizen. On August 22 2010 06:02 SouthRawrea wrote: 2/9. I was lieing just in case we were going to switch plans haha. You know, you could've just changed numbers. Nothing worthwhile here however. Let's move on. Then theres like 5 one liners of him changing his number. On August 23 2010 20:50 SouthRawrea wrote: I picked 10 honest to god O.o. Guess I gotta pick CV and get lynched tho. This post shows how SR was willing to follow the plan if he was going to be in such a contested role. Aka, he was willing to get lynched to follow the plan(since its not like he could fake it well due to safeguards and people checking CV.) Contradicting his later move. On August 25 2010 23:58 SouthRawrea wrote: Well shit. I would like to announce that at least 2 people did not follow along with the plan made for role picking. Starting to get closer to where we stand now. Here he states he did not follow the plan, despite knowing about it. On August 26 2010 00:23 SouthRawrea wrote: One is me :D. I'm quite obviously not going to announce the role. Basically someone picked a role that they were not supposed to pick which I had picked as well. Not a huge deal but possible mafia candidate. So 5 possible people who stole my role D:. Why are you happy about you not following the plan. Here you say you are not going to announce role(though you later do.) However, if you had really picked traitor(which I highly doubt) there would be no doubt in your mind you would announce your role right away. "Not a huge deal?" seriously? The plan could've been ruined! On August 26 2010 00:35 SouthRawrea wrote: EBWOP I'd assume that it's Hesmyrr because he would probably believe that his 33% chance of getting a role that's probably already taken is useless. He also said this. I'm going to go out on a limb here and because he said his role is anti-town. Do you mind us lynching you Hesmyrr? I have a very good reason to believe that lynching you is a good idea if you indeed were the one who stole my role as my role was anti-town as well. The first 3 would have no reason to change roles as it's beneficial for both town and mafia to take those roles first. #5 would also most likely want JOAT or a defensive role as well. Thus my suspicion falls on Hesmyrr. I would like to know of your role. He accuses Hesymrr based on pure wifom, quotes taken out of context, and speculation on what he thought. Incrediablly stupid, and highly scummy. On August 26 2010 01:06 SouthRawrea wrote: Okay you guys want the role? I haven't thought this over yet so it might be bad. 6 minutes later he does. 2 posts only in between. One of them zeks is saying let people publically think about it. Yet SR decides he knows everything and thought it all the way through by himself in 6 minutes. Neither post after said he should, they suggested he wait. Again, stupid and scummy. On August 26 2010 01:12 SouthRawrea wrote: Okay, I've thought it over once and I'm pretty pro-town move on my part even if it endangers myself. I chose traitor and was unable to attain the role. I believe the person who took the role is Hesmyrr unless someone else chose the roles on a whim. Traitor= the one role that doesn't benefit town at all and mafioso would not take. 1. Why in the world did you choose traitor. Also, your not pro town. This post shows your incrediably anti town as a matter of fact. And you still are accusing Hesymrr based on wifom, and speculation, without any real evidence of any kind. On August 26 2010 01:24 SouthRawrea wrote: That actually works quite well IMO. CV lives for today. No need to lynch him yet so he can shoot me. We lynch Hesmyrr today. Well I guess if my guess ends up being true there really is no reason to shoot me. It would be a safer bet than just random shooting someone. @Citi.zen You have no idea how mad I was D:. I thought I'd be sure to get Traitor and then this morning I woke up to find that Ace sent me another PM (as opposed to the one before the draft order) saying I was a vanilla townie. >< He says "Yeah, maybe you should shoot me. " This is the most pro town post in everything, and even that isn't that much. In fact, I suspect Southrawrer was merely going to get one of his mafia scum to roleblock the CV and he would live. That's wifom of course, but possible. It goes off the fact that mafia would get Roleblocker, and that as we have discusesed is very likely. On August 26 2010 01:41 SouthRawrea wrote: Just know that if I end up being wrong about Hesmyrr and when I die you find I'm vanilla townie, there is still a traitor in the top 5. Also FML if Ace screwed up the draft order again. States the obvious. However, he is not vanilla townie. On August 26 2010 01:45 SouthRawrea wrote: Actually if you look closely at his post: This could be a soft claim from him to the mafia as traitor. None of the actual townies would find this suspicious at all as we were trying to take roles away from the mafia anyways but the mafia would look at that and think, maybe he's softclaiming to us? They'd quite easily put any of their power roles on him to try and convert him if it's true. (They'd not bother using a KP on him obviously). Speculation(aka worthless) On August 26 2010 01:51 SouthRawrea wrote: I picked it on a whim. I wanted to make the game a bit more epic. I was actually gonna pick CV when I saw the draft order with me on top but the changes had me thinking a bit more. Also the bolded part is the reason why I'm screwed if Ace made a mistake that he wants to change to the roles given out or the draft order again. It's probably not going to happen though. So you ruined the town plan, picked traitor(the worst role you could've picked imo) all to make the game more epic? Seriously, why haven't we been hounding him. In conclusion, due to numerous contradictions, pleading for the usefulness of anti-town roles, accusing on speculation and wifom, and overall scummy behavior, I hereby urge all of you to vote SouthRawrer. He's serial killer or mafia. Either one is bad, and lynching either means we get one less kp or one less mafia to deal with. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 26 2010 02:37 zeks wrote: You are Vanilla Scum! The ability to kill 1 player per night belongs to you. One of you must PM me a kill for the night even though all of you participate in the kill. Remember you can coordinate your # picks during the draft phase. The Mafia team this round consists of: Jack, Jill, this bottle and my ecstasy pills! You win when you outnumber the town, or there is no way for them to stop you from outnumbering them. see bolded part. Unless that's some meme or some inside joke I'm assuming theres 4 scum? Remember I copied most of the OP from PYP1. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
If he flips Traitor, we get SR as a confirmed vanilla townie, and we get 1 red (traitor), and we get zeks alignment (possibly 2 confirmed townies day 1 and a red dead) If he flips townie, we then get SR as red (unless the check reveals zeks is traitor then we kill him instead) and we get zeks alignment, and Hesymer being townie also confirms that compvig is in the top 3. We also don't waste a lynch since I can vig him night 2. Pray said, how do I flipping green reveal SR is red? Note that traitor can be in #2 and #3 spot also. If you are going to do it that way, the proper way to do it would be to lynch #6 to check his validity, and if he flips green lynch #4 and CV #2 or #3. SR is not an investigative role; assuming he is legit, he realized he didn't get traitor and somehow immediately guessed that I am the Traitor- which may or may not be truth. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
It is my opinion that town stands to get more information by lynching SR instead of me. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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zeks
Canada1068 Posts
Hesmyrr: His counter claim is valid. The only thing I'm worried about is that he did counter claim CV - which is the safest counter claim as it should be a given at this point that CV was drafted #1 by rastaban. But after everything happened we cannot guarantee that both PoD and Bad Santa have been taken. So if in the case Hesmyrr is scum then the CV claim would make sense from him. Nevertheless he may be honest and did RNG CV and is just a townie. I'm not sold on Hesmyrr yet either way, but we really need to hear from chaoser/LSB. I do suspect both of them to a certain extent (chaoser a bit more because I understand a little about how he plays). So right now for me its between 2,3,4. | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
Second, vengeful player is a pro-town role. It's not a large leap of trust at all to have them not kill someone if they did end up getting lynched. Would we also not want mafia to avoid having this role? Say there is a confirmed townie under constant protection, they're not safe from a MAFIA vengeful player killing them during his own lynch. I wasn't saying it was a high priority role but it certainly is helpful for town to have it. Serial Killer? Really? Why would I as an SK promote my own lynch if I'm wrong? SK isn't able to pick traitor either so how on earth would I know that a traitor exists within the top 5. Stop spouting nonsense. | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:39 SouthRawrea wrote: Pandain first off: Town plan was ruined regardless of me picking Traitor anyways as someone else did. Second, vengeful player is a pro-town role. It's not a large leap of trust at all to have them not kill someone if they did end up getting lynched. Would we also not want mafia to avoid having this role? Say there is a confirmed townie under constant protection, they're not safe from a MAFIA vengeful player killing them during his own lynch. I wasn't saying it was a high priority role but it certainly is helpful for town to have it. Serial Killer? Really? Why would I as an SK promote my own lynch if I'm wrong? SK isn't able to pick traitor either so how on earth would I know that a traitor exists within the top 5. Stop spouting nonsense. It was ok(not good, but allowable) for the #15(Divinek) to change his thing. You are #6. The plan was not ruined. Not only that, you picked traitor. As for vengeful player, as you said in a previous post anything that adds kp to mafia is bad. Vengeful player in the hands of a mafia, adds kp. Unless you now disagree with yourself. | ||
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zeks
Canada1068 Posts
Its just that someone ruined it instead of SR. | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:39 zeks wrote: The reason I won't be voting SR is that I just think it would be a huge gambit on his part (if he's scum) just to try to frame a traitor on the top 5 - and in a 1 for 1 trade situation thats just totally irrational. Trading one scum for someone in the top 5 (where many of them are gonna die anyway) is just stupid. I think he knows a bit better than that. Hesmyrr: His counter claim is valid. The only thing I'm worried about is that he did counter claim CV - which is the safest counter claim as it should be a given at this point that CV was drafted #1 by rastaban. But after everything happened we cannot guarantee that both PoD and Bad Santa have been taken. So if in the case Hesmyrr is scum then the CV claim would make sense from him. Nevertheless he may be honest and did RNG CV and is just a townie. I'm not sold on Hesmyrr yet either way, but we really need to hear from chaoser/LSB. I do suspect both of them to a certain extent (chaoser a bit more because I understand a little about how he plays). So right now for me its between 2,3,4. It's not a gambit at all. If I were scum I would not choose traitor and if I were SK I cannot choose traitor due to the game's rules. If I were not traitor, it'd be an absolutely insane idea to guess that a traitor was in the top 5 unless I was denied the role. In the case that I am wrong about Hesmyrr, I am getting lynched as town has to make sure I was telling the truth. Possibilities: 1) Hesmyrr:traitor Rawrea:green -> We benefit 2) Hesmyrr:green Rawrea:red -> mafia loses a member and nets a green kill 3) Hesmyrr:green Rawrea:green -> we know that there is still a traitor in the top 5 (now 4) or I'm just trolling and we lose 2 greens 4) Hesmyrr:green Rawrea: SK -> SK gets lynched and loses after making a horrible play, town loses a green and traitor can be ANYWHERE | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:42 Pandain wrote: It was ok(not good, but allowable) for the #15(Divinek) to change his thing. You are #6. The plan was not ruined. Not only that, you picked traitor. As for vengeful player, as you said in a previous post anything that adds kp to mafia is bad. Vengeful player in the hands of a mafia, adds kp. Unless you now disagree with yourself. IF WE TAKE IT, IT'S TOWN KP NOT MAFIA KP. | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:48 SouthRawrea wrote: IF WE TAKE IT, IT'S TOWN KP NOT MAFIA KP. And how would you know town would take it? Anyway, just so you know I am trying to figure out a plan in the case you are green. I still am going to have you lynched today barring some miracle. | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
On August 26 2010 03:50 Pandain wrote: And how would you know town would take it? This was all while we were discussing what the draft order and plan should be. You're not getting anywhere with your arguments. | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
So here are the people and their claims so far Chaoser, Subverion Me Hesmyrr: Claims to have RNGed CV and failed Zeks SouthRawrea: Claims to have Picked Traitor and failed Let’s take a look at specific people SouthRawrea Assuming SouthRawrea is town: As town, SouthRawrea would have incentive to immediately tell what happened. It would be perfectly natural. So if he’s town, he’s telling the truth. Assuming SouthRawrea is mafia: This could be a mafia disruption tactic. (see Penalty Mafia, how Bill Murray goes in and acts completely scummy). By sending SouthRawrea, immediately a witchhunt goes on, trying to lynch random people, buying the Mafia valuable time. For example SouthRawrea drafts Prince of Darkness. He’d end up vanilla. He then claims that he drafted traitor but failed. The town would proceed to kill Subverion, Me, Hesmyrr, Chaoser (maybe even Zeks too). And SouthRawrea wouldn’t have trouble persuading the town to kill these “useless anti-town roles”. Boom. That’s a lot of people dead. It would take us 4-5 innocent lynches to take down SouthRawrea, a very good trade off. Like citi.zen said Citi.zen: What worries me here is that if we screw up 3-4 lynches it’s quite possible we lost. Hesmyrr Out of the top 5, Hesmyrr is the most likely to want to pick Traitor. Because, his role is boring. He is supposed to check to see if Me/Sub/Chao picked the correct role. Probably getting a vanilla role. There is a very small chance that he might make a discovery. On the other hand, he could take traitor, probably won’t be caught, because really, no one will check him. Perfect position. The fact that Hesmyrr could be an undetectable traitor is very troubling. Chaoser, confirmed by Hesmyrr. The chances that Subverion/zeks took his role and Chaoser took traitor is very slim. Subverion: Bad Santa is defiantly an interesting role Zeks: idk Me: PoD ftw! I haz cool role that the mafia wants badly. Muhhahahahaha! What happens if we lynch… SouthRawrea: He flips Mafia, we know that there isn’t a traitor. (Or, there is a traitor, but the mafia doesn’t know about it, and the traitor could be anywhere) Flips town, we know that there is a traitor. Hesmyrr He flips traitor: :D! Flips town: We know that Chaoser is town. Confirming Chaoser: It’s quiet easy to confirm Chaoser, we simply tell the CV “IF you are Chaoser, kill SouthRawrea. IF you are not Chaoser, kill someone else” Confirming Me/Zeks/Subverion. It’s a bad idea to tell us to use our roles. Well, Sub can’t. I’m not dumb, and Zeks should remain hidden. We could have the role cop check on people’s roles. That seems good at a glance, but I don’t know if we want to trade our role cop, for someone that isn’t yet a mafia member and might not count as a mafia member. | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
##Votes Hesmyrr | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
If that is so, it is not a good idea to lynch SR, because he could just add kp, but rather we should have the CV kill off SR I want a bit more time before i make a decision Im 60% sure that SR is the vengeful mafia (a great way to pull off an extra KP, trying to get lynched) But im going to need more proof | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On August 26 2010 04:04 LSB wrote: (I’ll make a long post on incentives!) So here are the people and their claims so far Chaoser, Subverion Me Hesmyrr: Claims to have RNGed CV and failed Zeks SouthRawrea: Claims to have Picked Traitor and failed Let’s take a look at specific people SouthRawrea Assuming SouthRawrea is town: As town, SouthRawrea would have incentive to immediately tell what happened. It would be perfectly natural. So if he’s town, he’s telling the truth. Assuming SouthRawrea is mafia: This could be a mafia disruption tactic. (see Penalty Mafia, how Bill Murray goes in and acts completely scummy). By sending SouthRawrea, immediately a witchhunt goes on, trying to lynch random people, buying the Mafia valuable time. For example SouthRawrea drafts Prince of Darkness. He’d end up vanilla. He then claims that he drafted traitor but failed. The town would proceed to kill Subverion, Me, Hesmyrr, Chaoser (maybe even Zeks too). And SouthRawrea wouldn’t have trouble persuading the town to kill these “useless anti-town roles”. Boom. That’s a lot of people dead. It would take us 4-5 innocent lynches to take down SouthRawrea, a very good trade off. Like citi.zen said Hesmyrr Out of the top 5, Hesmyrr is the most likely to want to pick Traitor. Because, his role is boring. He is supposed to check to see if Me/Sub/Chao picked the correct role. Probably getting a vanilla role. There is a very small chance that he might make a discovery. On the other hand, he could take traitor, probably won’t be caught, because really, no one will check him. Perfect position. The fact that Hesmyrr could be an undetectable traitor is very troubling. Chaoser, confirmed by Hesmyrr. The chances that Subverion/zeks took his role and Chaoser took traitor is very slim. Subverion: Bad Santa is defiantly an interesting role Zeks: idk Me: PoD ftw! I haz cool role that the mafia wants badly. Muhhahahahaha! What happens if we lynch… SouthRawrea: He flips Mafia, we know that there isn’t a traitor. (Or, there is a traitor, but the mafia doesn’t know about it, and the traitor could be anywhere) Flips town, we know that there is a traitor. Hesmyrr He flips traitor: :D! Flips town: We know that Chaoser is town. Confirming Chaoser: It’s quiet easy to confirm Chaoser, we simply tell the CV “IF you are Chaoser, kill SouthRawrea. IF you are not Chaoser, kill someone else” Confirming Me/Zeks/Subverion. It’s a bad idea to tell us to use our roles. Well, Sub can’t. I’m not dumb, and Zeks should remain hidden. We could have the role cop check on people’s roles. That seems good at a glance, but I don’t know if we want to trade our role cop, for someone that isn’t yet a mafia member and might not count as a mafia member. Good post, but I think you have Chaoser and I mixed up in your list or something. I am comp vig not him. He should have taken bad santa. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 26 2010 04:16 LSB wrote: After another readthrough. Personally, I think it would be more likely for SR to take vengeful player than traitor. If that is so, it is not a good idea to lynch SR, because he could just add kp, but rather we should have the CV kill off SR I want a bit more time before i make a decision Im 60% sure that SR is the vengeful mafia (a great way to pull off an extra KP, trying to get lynched) But im going to need more proof Are you kidding?? I'm 60% sure of nothing right now... | ||
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