TL Mafia XXVIII
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youngminii
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On July 17 2010 14:31 Bill Murray wrote: no clues, sir BM said SIR, Pyrr is obviously Godfather. | ||
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On July 17 2010 14:35 Pandain wrote: Youngmini? I only trust you.... Let's ally! We can trust no one else in this hideous gotham of a city. PANDAAAIN! What's up! Hehe yeah let's totally bust some scumnuts together | ||
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On July 17 2010 14:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: No, he's just obviously intolerant of my sex change. I didn't know the GF was a girl. | ||
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I just got my wisdom tooth taken out, I want my money bitch. ##Vote Pyrrhuloxia | ||
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On July 18 2010 05:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Secondly, we should set up potential lists of people to watch out for until they can be confirmed. I would start with BloodyC0bbler Foolishness DTA YoungMirii Citizen I believe us 5 should be under the most scrutiny at the beginning of this game. What, why am I included in a scum list Anyways, I've been spamming Starcraft 2 all night and I'm dead tired but since we haven't really moved out of RVS it looks like I haven't missed out on much. I have a question for BM. What happens if everyone votes to abstain? If the answer is a no lynch, then I suggest everyone change their votes to abstain for the first day. A no lynch (in my experience) on the first day is generally beneficial to town in a standard-ish setup. We'll also get all the modkills out of the way which will narrow down the list of potential scum. I especially do not want to accidentally go and lynch a blue role, that'd be horrible. In fact, I have another question (I may have just missed this in the OP), are roles flipped upon death? I'd assume so but I just want to make sure. Just for some pre-emptive planning for the night: DTs check 'good' players, especially players that are unlikely to go inactive. Medics should protect whoever they want, generally you'd want to protect the person that seems the most towny and frequently posts. Of course, if you feel that you should be doing something else, you should trust your instincts. | ||
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On July 18 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 05:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Secondly, we should set up potential lists of people to watch out for until they can be confirmed. I would start with BloodyC0bbler Foolishness DTA YoungMirii Citizen I believe us 5 should be under the most scrutiny at the beginning of this game. What, why am I included in a scum list Anyways, I've been spamming Starcraft 2 all night and I'm dead tired but since we haven't really moved out of RVS it looks like I haven't missed out on much. I have a question for BM. What happens if everyone votes to abstain? If the answer is a no lynch, then I suggest everyone change their votes to abstain for the first day. A no lynch (in my experience) on the first day is generally beneficial to town in a standard-ish setup. We'll also get all the modkills out of the way which will narrow down the list of potential scum. I especially do not want to accidentally go and lynch a blue role, that'd be horrible. In fact, I have another question (I may have just missed this in the OP), are roles flipped upon death? I'd assume so but I just want to make sure. Just for some pre-emptive planning for the night: DTs check 'good' players, especially players that are unlikely to go inactive. Medics should protect whoever they want, generally you'd want to protect the person that seems the most towny and frequently posts. Of course, if you feel that you should be doing something else, you should trust your instincts. Okay so I just read the OP and I didn't notice the part about 2 of each blue role before. In light of the new (for me anyway) information, I suggest this modified plan. Since there's always the possibility of medics and DTs overlapping, I suggest blues follow a more strategical form of play. Here is the list of players numbered: + Show Spoiler + 1. tree.hugger 2. brownbear 3. youngminii 4. foolishness 5. chaoser 6. divinek 7. xelin 8. hyperbola 9. SiNiquity 10. lakrismamma 11. rastaban 12. bumatlarge 13. Amber[LighT] 14. SouthRawrea 15. pandain 16. ~OpZ~ 17. Infundibulum 18. Jayme 19. Subversion 20. LaxerCannon 21. DARTH THIEN AN 22. BloodyC0bbler 23. d3_crescentia 24. Misder 25. Citi.zen 26. Pyrrholuxia 27. Tricode 28. zeks 29. ketomai 30. roffles All DTs should investigate the player directly under them and then move down one player each night. If #30 (roffles) is a DT, he would check #1 (tree.hugger). I would suggest medics do the same but I believe medics would be better playing by their own instincts even if there is that small chance they'll overlap. Keep in mind I'm only suggesting this for night 1, and should there be a need to investigate someone in particular, we'll discuss that when the time comes. | ||
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On July 18 2010 09:51 Bill Murray wrote: EVERYONE abstaining? I guess it'd no lynch. Didn't expect that to happen! Okay so everyone should abstain imo. If you have any objections to this idea, please raise it asap because we need everyone to switch their vote to abstaining. Even one vote = lynch and that will be very suspicious of the person who left their vote by 'accident'. ##Unvote Pyrr ##Vote Abstain | ||
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On July 18 2010 10:13 SiNiquity wrote: I'm not sure I like it. The inactives will get modkilled, no one gets lynched, the mafia kills 2 more people, and then we're back at square one, no? On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote: No-Lynch? Oh hell no absolutely not. I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing. No lynch is a terrible idea. If we lynch someone on the first day without any good reason there's a solid chance (12/15) that we'll hit a townie. That's 80%. There's also a better chance of lynching a blue than there is of scum. A no lynch is a gift that we should utilize instead of RVS. | ||
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Anyway, what's with Opz randomly saying everyone should PM him? Is he some mafia veteran god? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, why would you even try and ask that? Do you honestly think people will PM you or are you scum trying to bait the newbies for some free blue kills? @ Subversion: There's been nothing interesting. You're clearly misreading the thread if you see anything interesting because it's a bunch of people (including myself) in complete disarray talking about stuff that no one else agrees with. As for hyperbola's bandwagon: it has absolutely no reasoning behind it but it is day 1. I'd prefer abstaining/lynching someone that's about to be modkilled but so many of you are against that with no good reason and decide to lynch someone based on the smallest reasoning founded on RVS. | ||
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Does this not strike you as scummy at all? Overly scummy but scummy nonetheless? In fact, I think this is the scummiest post I have seen all game (not that long). However, I don't think you're really that bad at this game and even a mediocre scum wouldn't do that kind of mistake. Will need confirmation on other more experienced TL mafia players on your meta. | ||
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Obvious blue advice? Really? Do you honestly believe that all 30 people in this thread know exactly how to play blue? Do you really think that each and every new person in here knows how to play their role perfectly? So in the case of all 30 people knowing the exact way to play without any discussions as to any plans we should just leave it at that and not discuss our options? You can't be that stupid, I refuse to believe it. Also, what already answered questions? Back up your statements with evidence please. How is telling the town to abstain not a good idea? I'm willing to accept criticism of my ideas, but I'm not willing to just sit back and watch as someone comes in, votes for me as a placeholder in case a bandwagon is formed on me (which I suppose is pre-emptive bandwagoning) and then says my ideas are not good. Information Instead of Analysis. In fact, IIoA is a big scumtell in my experiences in other mafia sites (not sure about TL since this site is actually quite a lot different). I never said citi.zen said I was good. In fact, I implied citi.zen said I was quite bad. I don't critique citi.zen's play because as far as I can tell, people seem to believe his meta is good but if he continues to critique me, so be it. I don't care. Your 'just in case' is the same as bandwagoning, except you're doing it early. You think there might be a chance that people will start voting for me so you put your vote on me 'just in case'. Biggest hidden form of bandwagoning imo. My conclusion: You're either a really bad scum, really bad townie, or a fucking bad blue. ##Bote infundibulum | ||
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##Vote infundibulum | ||
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On July 18 2010 23:49 XeliN wrote: Actually scrap that, I've just gone over your posts individually Youngminii and your coming across so scummy to me. You argue everyone to abstain on the first day, or vote for someone that is going to be killed anyway. That directly helps mafia, and further reduces any information that we could have going into Day 2 I completely understand that it might seem as if it would reduce any information but I was hoping that the reactions to the plan would be something I could analyse (and still plan to analyse actually, since there's been good posts against it and just absolutely stupid posts against it) later in the game. This wasn't my ulterior motive or anything, I genuinely did want a no lynch or equivalent because there's still the greater chance of lynching blue and is generally not a good way to lynch (day 1 plays). you've also tried to directly influence what any blues in the game do on the first day So I take it you're saying a mechanical method of investigation as to make sure both checks aren't used on the same person is a bad thing? You're saying it somehow makes me scum because this method of checking CLEARLY helps scum? and instead of addressing the points infundulum makes against you, you flip reverse it and accuse him of being Red. Remove vote Vote youngminii What is this, I don't even... READ BEFORE YOU POST. I would honestly like to know why you think this doesn't address the points he makes against me. Please, tell me. On July 18 2010 21:24 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: i really should refresh before i post, since i missed your last post when i was writing mine. anyway your defense up there only addresses 1 thing that BC and citizen pointed out, which was the initial sentence. maybe you were joking (a reasonable explanation, i do admit, and i read it that way at first for what it's worth), maybe you weren't. but what about asking the already answered questions? what about obvious blue advice that any blue knows? what about telling the town it's a good idea to abstain? (it's not) citizen didn't say that you weren't strong as i saw it, rather he said those kinds of mistakes were not something he would expect from you. see, this is why i wrote that "just in case," since i know i'm not gonna be here my vote has a chance of being useless so i'm taking a gambit with a person that i think could be a lynch target as the night deadline rolls around. i knew you would come and have something to say; obviously just not this soon (sooner than me lol). sorry, but you haven't convinced me to move my vote. On July 18 2010 21:46 youngminii wrote: There was only one thing that they did point out and that's the only thing that was directed at me, hence I responded to it. Obvious blue advice? Really? Do you honestly believe that all 30 people in this thread know exactly how to play blue? Do you really think that each and every new person in here knows how to play their role perfectly? So in the case of all 30 people knowing the exact way to play without any discussions as to any plans we should just leave it at that and not discuss our options? You can't be that stupid, I refuse to believe it. Also, what already answered questions? Back up your statements with evidence please. How is telling the town to abstain not a good idea? I'm willing to accept criticism of my ideas, but I'm not willing to just sit back and watch as someone comes in, votes for me as a placeholder in case a bandwagon is formed on me (which I suppose is pre-emptive bandwagoning) and then says my ideas are not good. Information Instead of Analysis. In fact, IIoA is a big scumtell in my experiences in other mafia sites (not sure about TL since this site is actually quite a lot different). I never said citi.zen said I was good. In fact, I implied citi.zen said I was quite bad. I don't critique citi.zen's play because as far as I can tell, people seem to believe his meta is good but if he continues to critique me, so be it. I don't care. Your 'just in case' is the same as bandwagoning, except you're doing it early. You think there might be a chance that people will start voting for me so you put your vote on me 'just in case'. Biggest hidden form of bandwagoning imo. My conclusion: You're either a really bad scum, really bad townie, or a fucking bad blue. ##Bote infundibulum | ||
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On July 18 2010 23:13 citi.zen wrote: youngminii, you seem to have a lot of trouble reading a simple statement so let me clarify it for you: you did well last game, hence I think you are a pretty good player. I never implied otherwise. Must have misunderstood one or two of your posts. Doesn't change a thing. | ||
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I personally think the bandwagon on hyperbola is the dumbest thing in the world. Everyone that's been on that bandwagon should have their posts as to why they jumped on analysed later on. The main argument against DTA is that he's lurking as scum so that he doesn't draw attention to himself. You've put your pressure on him and he isn't responding. A lurker would pop up and defend himself, especially with only about 5 1/2 hours 'til the deadline. As for myself, the bandwagon is less stupid than hyperbola's because it actually has a reason/substance behind it. However, it's still pretty bad because I'm being targeted because I offered a plan and generated discussion. This is why lynching on the first day is a terrible, terrible idea. The scum can blend in with the town so well and even lurk a bit. They'll just leave people to lynch each other on the first day or two and before you know it, it's lylo. No lynching is a gift, use it. If not, lynch an inactive (someone that's about to be modkilled). I am 99% certain that whoever gets lynched today will not be scum, simply because it is way too easy for scum not to draw attention on the first day. | ||
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On July 19 2010 03:46 chaoser wrote: It's already been established that not lynching someone on the first day is a horrible decision, why are you still pushing for it? I completely agree with your philosophy that if some people disagree with you, you should just back down and give up on your ideas. | ||
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disagree | ||
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On July 19 2010 03:48 Pandain wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote: Alright guys take a breather... sheesh. Especially you Divinek: You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back. Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often? I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay? I'd like to elaborate on this more, in fact. I will be supporting my view via the use of italized and bolded sections of previoius posts, which I love to do(in case you haven't found out.) Note the bolded section(XD). Despite the fact that he is trying to pass off his two posts accusing Sinquity as a joke(one of them defending the previous post)*, he still accuses Divenek despite the fact that I believe Divenek was on the right side this time. After all, Hyperbola did just accuse Sinquity of being mafia based on the fact he was "contributing too much", and then Hyperbola continued to defend that. In every post Hyperbola has made so far, it has (at least slightly) accused someone. + Show Spoiler + Note the underlined section. Now, this may be getting too far in(probably), but might as well as Mafia is incredibally psychologically centered. Spill the beans? Why did you have to hide it? Note: I have decided to spoiler this as this is the weakest of these points and thus should only be used as subtle observation, in no way to be used as a valid reason to lynch him. I just find Hyperbola's posts these games to be highly questionable. This post in no way is even my main points, you can view the previous pages as to why I voted Hyperbola. Please look them over and decide for yourselves. And of course, if you have an opposing viewpoint, please share. Lynching is a final decision, there is no turning back after. This actually intrigues me a bit. I honestly believe hyperbola is either a townie or a really really really bad scum. There's no way in your right might you would say 'nah all my posts were just jokes, don't worry' if you were scum because that's outright stupid. It's drawing unnecessary attention (ie. the post I'm quoting) and would be something an honest, naive townie would do. Of course, if he ends up flipping red I'll eat my own arm. | ||
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[*]Scenario 1: We do lynch someone. There's an 80% chance that person is not scum, statistically speaking. From my point of view, our suspects are not prime scum candidates. If that person isn't scum, then mafia still has 0% chance of hitting scum at night. Scenario 2: We don't lynch someone. The mafia has 0% chance of hitting scum at night. It's the same scenario with less casualties. [*]DTs will have checked people and can start forming trust groups. Gameplay in mafia tends to evolve the longer the game goes on and with days only being 48hrs on TL, there's not that much time for the game to evolve. [*]We have plenty to inspect, look at all that's happened so far. I know that this plan isn't going to go through but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop defending it. | ||
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You know what, I'm just gonna drop it. As tree hugger said I'm just wasting space and creating confusion. @ Pandain: A death post is the one post you're allowed to make after you die where you reveal what you are. | ||
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Anyways, now that SC2 is back down I'm gonna go read through pretty much the entire thread again. Brb. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:35 Divinek wrote: that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet Why are we sure our first vet has lost his life? Some guy got protected by a medic. | ||
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Also, note that it's interesting how there were 6 votes for hyperbola and 5 votes for me. What's more interesting is that there are only 6 scum and they could have easily single handedly voted off hyperbola (unlikely though). What is likely is that there were at least a few scum voting for either me and hyperbola. Here's a plan that we can use (I realise my last plan was like, totally distracting and stuff so if you choose to ignore this I don't blame you), instead of Vets roleclaiming, how about Vets 'recruit' people into their PM trust circles. These trust circles can exclude anyone from Hyperbola/my bandwagon as there ought to be at least 2-3 mafia in total in the bandwagons. | ||
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I see no reason logically or statistically as to why d3 would make it up. He said he was protected by a medic and so he was. If he was scum he could've simply flown completely under the radar as he has been doing so far. | ||
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My first reason is Pandain's points. The majority of his points are valid and chaoser's responses are sub-par. The biggest point that sticks out to me is the fact that chaoser didn't change his vote from abstaining after drilling me so hard. Why? Well he probably knew hyperbola was going to be lynched and there's no use jumping on any bandwagons to raise suspicion. I don't really have an opinion on BB's bandwagon except that it was almost as random as hyperbola's. I was pretty much certain that hyperbola was not scum whereas for BB I cannot say the same however it doesn't warrant my vote. Another thing that irks me at the moment is how chaoser jumped on the subversion bandwagon instead of hyperbola's. There could be a few reasons such as BB is scum and chaoser is protecting him by backing the second bandwagon or BB is town and chaoser doesn't want to raise suspicion on himself. Either way, more evidence points to him being scum than not. My second reason is outside this thread. On July 20 2010 23:15 chaoser wrote: Why don't you think the claim by d3 and only one person dying last night means anything/affects anything? For some reason, he sent me a PM asking the same question before posting on the thread. There was no way I couldn't raise my eyebrows but didn't know what to make of it. I replied to him telling him to post in the thread as posts are used in the future to analyse a player's actions and by PMing me he was bypassing that. Then he goes on to ask my opinions of his play so far which I still can't make anything out of. The reason I didn't post this before was because I thought he was a newbie and I didn't want to use it against him but I just looked at his posting history and it seems as if he's played games before. I don't know why he PM'd me but it seriously rang alarm bells in my head. | ||
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##Vote chaoser I also say we lynch BB at a later date just to see what he is. What's more ridiculous than the hyperbola bandwagon is the subversion bandwagon, unless I missed some important post. I have this instinctive feeling that BB/DTA might be scum and most of the people voting for subversion are scum protecting BB/DTA. | ||
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Anyway, while I think chaoser is more likely to be scum than DTA, I'm not going to be all like OMG YOU SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR DTA JUST BECAUSE OF ONE POST!!! That said, I think we should have been more careful before lynching DTA because the arguments seem a bit weak. Yes, there was a whole WALL of text explaining why we should lynch DTA but if you actually read the post you'd know there are lots of flaws in it. Let's begin dissecting Pyrr's post. Alright, I was gonna change my vote to the reddest of BrownBear and Subversion. But, I don't really like going after either of them today so maybe I can get some of you to change your votes. My Ph.D. Dissertation on DarthTheinAn by Pyrrhuloxia The Story Thus Far Day 1 Accusation + Show Spoiler + My thoughts: hyperbola is prolly just a quick trigger townie; I'd think a mafia would be too skittish to CONTINUE with it, especially when voting is so thin at this point. Mafia wouldn't have to be desperate as of now. Townie or red, hyperbola is obviously desperate now, with so many votes against him. But the desperation started and caused the bandwagon (according to Pandain). When the hyperbola bandwagon started, voting was evened out so there wouldn't be a need for mafia to bandwagon on someone. Mafia don't really tend to bandwagon anyone day one, at least they don't start the first bandwagon. They might start a second bandwagon to save someone's ass. Doesn't really help prove anyone innocent but I think hyperbola's behavior could be townie and the voting against him could be townie too. In better words, neither action really stick out at me as suspicious but no one's exonerated. Maybe if a team of people desperately work to save him there could be something going on. I'd like to hear why foolishness is so quiet this game. I've seen him in games as green and games as blue (DT). Both times he was really active and talkative and was somewhat of a leader with plans and so on. I've never seen him quiet and I've never seen him red. Could be an irl thing, could be something else. Darth...'s plan to "maximize" deaths on Day 1 strikes me as poor thinking. I get that it gets us information, so this could certainly be a townie sentiment. However, I've been red in many past games and I often got pissed off at how much harder it could be to win with just one more townie alive at the end, due to a non-lynch or something similar. At this point, my vote really is between Darth and hyperbola because it seems too late to rally the town anywhere else. Hyperbola strikes me as green running mouth. The reactions to that at least give the town something, even if he's red. Darth's hanging back and saying something that could be a subtle red move or a legitimate townie move. Yeah I double checked his other posts, and everything else is Darth clown spamming. As someone nicely put it: he's playing like Chezinu. So I can't be made to feel guilty about voting for him. Day 1 "Refutation" by the accused, wherein he admits he should be lynched, except not, because. + Show Spoiler + In my experience, mafia rarely actually "bandwagon". One or two might hop in for the final vote to kill someone they don't like over the current top target, but usually, they just vote wherever they feel like, based on their posting and what they've said in the past. The hyperbola bandwagon is just plain stupid imo. Anyone who was "convinced" by Siniquity's argument against hyperbola is also plain stupid. He gave poor reasoning for a random vote, but that does not make him mafia. A lot of the times, mafia play more like Siniquity, pointing out "mistakes" that townies make, and calling them scummy. My post was to contrast YellowInk's silly no lynch suggestion. Why are we even considering that? We need information. The game is about getting information for the town ASAP so that we can lynch/KP accurately. Therefore, we lynch a someone who is not already going to be modkilled. Pandain, I was only half-joking about it. Lynch someone who has voted but is not helping the town out. Someone like me, but, preferably, not me. And you're right, I was playing like Chezinu ^_^. He has inspired me. I might be out for the rest of today. Before you lynch me, consider how many other people have not posted, but have voted. For instance, d3, who is currently voting for me, but has said as little as I have said. Also, don't PM Opz, PM me!! ^^. Day 2 Accusation [spoiler] Cool! You gave a whole bunch of Information Instead of Analysis![badtownplay] Oh hey guys, here's a bunch of stuff that was said about/by DTA and since I quoted it, you should trust me in that it points to him being mafia![/badtownplay] Let's not let this get lost in the shuffle. Red or confused green, I don't think BrownBear is much of a threat right now. From what I gather, DarthTheinAn is usually a pretty high profile player (won mayor two games ago). This game he is playing obstinate/quiet. When DTA was red mayor two games ago, "Darth was also an excellent mafia player, managing to sweep his way into office on day 1, but he did overstep his boundaries just a little bit on the last day, and his position as mayor actually worked against him as he was under intense scrutiny, which led to his downfall." Source for that is BrownBear, btw, so... take that into account however you will. But it seems to me if DTA was red this game he'd be trying to take a lower profile this time around. So you're saying someone that is as good as DTA (you're all making him out to be quite good, I'm not too sure how good he is), is bad enough to completely swap their playing style after their original style worked bar one or two mistakes? You really think he'd go from one extreme to the other as scum to 'avoid' suspicion? That's like the total opposite of what would happen (case in point: it's happening right now). Oh yeah, intuition is awesome. We should always rely on our intuition to win us this game of analysis. I mean, clearly your intuition was correct about Foolishness being blue/red. Again, you're saying just because DTA is taking a low profile that he's scum. You can't just say "he's playing different, scum!" WHY does playing different make him scum, WHY does playing the total extreme of the way he played before make him scum. What about real life issues? What about the fact that he would be responding to these accusations if he really was mafia and was simply lurking? Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that. Cause and effect. Just because Foolishness was pointing at DTA doesn't mean that it's why he died. I mean, it COULD be but the way you're selling it is as if it's the absolute truth. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY / THE THREATDOWN / TLDR CENTRAL DarthTheinAn 1. Never defends himself with logic 2. Responded to Foolishness with a distorted counter attack and no refutation. 3. Blatantly ignores legitimate criticism to snark at strawmen instead. 4. Talks often, but without contributing anything new and useful. 5. Changes his vote often, usually without explanation. 6. Constantly "pretends" to be mafia. No red would ever be so daring! 7. Doesn't do shit all else. 8. Is supposedly capable of much better than this. That's just complete bullshit. I don't even know how the fuck you had the balls to come up with that list that completely condemns DTA and criticizes his play. You're assuming he's some horrible player and basing his scum play based on this assumption, when the general consensus is that DTA is a good player. But hey, I don't mind if you lynch him. As you guys have said, he hasn't been very helpful this game. I mean hell, if he's blue/green it only buys me credibility which is needed for the late game. | ||
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On July 22 2010 04:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Going through this thread since I got home from work last night and began to filter through the vote info day 1, but more importantly, who seemed to push for random bandwagons. What is more surprising is that these bandwagons formed AFTER they had solidly defended themselves (hyper/young). Yet even with a defense, people were “unconvinced” of their innocence. The youngminii vote list is odd, after two defense posts and solid ones for day 1 at that, he still garnered people vote for him Infundi started the vote train with It’s a “placeholder” vote. He then argues with young and refuses to vote swap. Xelin posts a reason to vote for young very quickly after, He is gut shotting, not a very solid way to do it day 1. This post intrigues me, a lot. HE is blind trusting someone to follow for voting, which makes the third vote of a bandwagon that formed in the last 17 hours of the day, all 3 voting with in a page of eachother. Super odd to be formed a) so late and b) with next to no real debate. Odd vote choice as he has read the thread, comments little for his vote, but goes onto say how he would prefer to have the days lynch go, seems fair enough of a reason to avoid a no lynch. Of all the votes for young, this one strikes me as the most reasonable, as it is voting based on things he has said, and things he disagrees with and is voting for it. Now, that that is done, lets go see what day 2 looks like for these 5. This vote is a completely different style, levels out with what he said the day before of not having time, here he obviously did as it’s a moderately informed vote. HOWEVER he later does this Here shows that rather than being certain of his choices, he going bandwagon to bandwagon. Subversion has had far to many people jump on him for being a bad player when the kid is new. And now another player, who should know better based on experience, is jumping at him. Seriously fishy imo. Very little activity overall and hoping onto bandwagons is all hes really doing. Going into description of who he thinks should be lynched based off two major candiates. Although DTA is a more recent bandwagon (well revival of one) This vote worries me. He starts by saying “I was going to vote for x” then immediately swaps his opinion to someone who has made a few minor slip ups (possible newb?) but votes out of fear of him saying something he shouldn’t. Odd reason to kill someone now, sounds like a pm land reason, although I have no way to prove that. To my knowledge, Infundi has just voted for double lynch today, and Roffles still hasn’t voted. Now looking at this, I see a few really oddly done votes, and it continues today. Amber seems to vote for whichever wagon at the time is attracting the most people, hopping onto Youngminii near its beginning, then proceeding to jump on BB when it was in its prime, now hes hopped over to subversion. This is insanely odd to me. Next we have jayme, doing very similar things, hopping onto popular wagon without really contributing much to the game other than hopping onto the wagon with a simple reason of why he joined it. His reason day 1 was sound, his reason right now not so much. I would also say as a minor link that potentially means nothing at this point, but both amber and jayme have voted together twice now (provided this vote stays final). NOW, lets talk about the last days playing. WHAT THE HELL GUYS. I am gone for a day, and seriously return to you all attacking well everyone Youngminii vs chaoser pandain vs chaoser Chaoser vs young/pandain everyone and their puppy vs subversion Shit jumping randomly out to attack dta people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity. Lakrismamma attempting to start a fight with roffles based on inactivity (pot calling the kettle black?) The amount of just literally piles of crap to weed through is agonizingly annoying to read. ALL of responsible for this all should take a step bad and really see what you are doing. Because of all this nonsense there is really next to no real candidate for a lynch, instead its a bunch of minor bandwagons people can fan/hide in. If the group of you mainly responsible for this is town, shame on you guys, you should know better. Start reading what people are saying, not just arguing a gut shot. As its too damn late to try and coordinate on who to vote on, I AM choosing amber for having two days worth of sketchy voting habits + bandwagon hopping. ##vote amber[light] This man raises a good point. I also like this amberlight accusation as it sounds solid and very reasonable, unlike this silly DTA one. However, I'm going to stick to my chaoser vote unless amberlight and DTA are on the same vote count or something, which in that case I'd change my vote to amberlight. Also, how many hours 'til twilight? | ||
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A good plan will not send the town into a worse off situation if one of it's 'requirements' aren't met. | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:34 Pandain wrote: Finally, I have been exchanging PM's from mroe expierenced players and they have laid out their arguments fantastically. I am inclined to believe them. You, of all people, should know how hard Mafia is, and I can't just stick to one person because I voted them first. If people offer sufficient evidence, I change my mind. I always have. I understand that PMing is a powerful tool but just because someone tells you they're not scum through PM doesn't mean they're telling you the truth. At the start of this game you PM'd me basically asking me if I was scum and I pretty much said 'no'. You completely believed me without any hesitation. | ||
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On July 22 2010 09:00 tree.hugger wrote:] If Subversion flips red, then we catch youngminii right off the bat. I lol'd. | ||
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On July 22 2010 09:41 tree.hugger wrote: Well, I'll pick this up again on Friday, presuming I'm not dead, so I can vote again for Subversion after whoever the hell it is we're lynching today flips green. gg. citi.zen, you win this round. One final note: You doubt that you're joined at the hip with Subversion? I don't doubt that you've been spreading misinformation via PMs, that's what I know. You're also mistaken when you say people haven't defended DTA, I mounted one a few pages back although if it was a tossup between DTA and Subversion I'd save Subversion. | ||
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I dunno, subversion's post seems odd to me but I'm not going to change my vote. Also: youngminii was a newb too, he rocked pretty hard in my game. <3 | ||
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WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me. It refers to circular logic and a terrible way to think in a mafia game. The term stems from this scenario: A princess(?) is given two glasses of wine. One of the glasses is filled with poison and the other is not. She is forced to drink one. "I should drink the Wine In Front Of Me because it's closer to me. Wait, maybe the guy knew that and so he put the poison in the Wine In Front Of Me, so I'll drink the other glass. But what if he knew I'd think like that? Then maybe I should......" | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:01 Divinek wrote: yes, WE SHOULD VOTE FUCKING AMBER, if any of you dudes would be man enough to switch. this is of course going to be hard to do cuz 3 of the votes are people trying to save their lives, but it'd only take all of them moving plus what 1 or 2 more? if you really do want to hit a red vote amber, but between the 3 right now i am so unsure I think we should focus on amber tomorrow maybe, today seems more like a tossup between Subversion and Chaoser and DTA. | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: You know that post of Tree.Hugger's you linked on page 54 (the one where he says his reasons for saying to go for subversion...I addressed that.) So please stop claiming to gain more from subversion. Tree.Hugger, please post all reputations on the line for Darth and Subversion. Thanks in advance (though I don't suspect it will happen, AND if by some means it does, I'm sure it will be wrong) So what happens if DTA and Subversion are both town, does that mean I'm like 100% confirmed townie? | ||
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Just finished Scott Pilgrim's Finest Hour, oh God I feel so good having finished the Scott Pilgrim series I'm just itching to see what chaoser flips. | ||
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But it's a great example of what WIFOM does to people | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:13 chaoser wrote: THIS is WIFOM Sigh, I don't even know what to think anymore. At this point I feel like none of us are mafia ;_;. Since both DTA and Subversion are soft claiming blue, I don't mind if I get lynched. I'm only green btw. Holy shit I totally remember watching that on TV when I was a kid. | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:13 chaoser wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EkBuKQEkio&feature=related THIS is WIFOM Sigh, I don't even know what to think anymore. At this point I feel like none of us are mafia ;_;. Since both DTA and Subversion are soft claiming blue, I don't mind if I get lynched. I'm only green btw. Hey I just remembered, he cheats in that. He put poison in both glasses because he's trained himself to be immune to that specific type of poison. | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:19 ~OpZ~ wrote: *Addition* Not only that, but tree.hugger says many reputations lie on it. My argument is against tree.hugger, because his reasoning is weak, but he chose to defend you and not subversion. WHich is why I'm voting to lynch you (not to mention you're play this game is annoying). He said youngmini defended subversion so it gives us insight into how mini is aligned, BUT mini defended you too...so how can he argue that? He can't. I'd be happy with Tree.Hugger's death too. I do think Tree.Hugger is quite town aligned. Early I learnt that Tree.Hugger had PM'd people saying 'if we lynch subversion and he flips red, then we have youngminii'. I pointed out that if Tree.Hugger was scum and subversion flipped green, then I'd be 'safe'. There's no logical reason why Tree.Hugger would tie me to subversion if subversion is town and Tree.Hugger is scum. | ||
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Right now this means I've defended Tree.Hugger, Subversion and DTA. I'm quite confident that Tree.Hugger and Subversion are town whereas in DTA's case, I think it's likely that he's town although he could be playing sneakily and toying with me (unlikely) | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:39 chaoser wrote: I don't like how this situation is playing out...the votes are so close, Mafia should be able to save their own if they wanted to if one of their own was in trouble. But they're not. What does this mean... If you flip red, it means there are loads of mafia in DTA/Subversion's bandwagons. | ||
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On July 22 2010 11:44 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Ugh i've already outlined my reasons for chaoser being innocent. at first i was pretty convinced by Pyrr's essay, but youngminii and a couple other players did point out some flaws. upon reexamination it also seems that Pyrr was very selective in which posts of DTA he presented, picking only the worst posts and omitting DTA's more logical and serious posts. I'm pretty sure Subversion is townie as i've been saying for the past 20 pages or something. but at this point it looks like i have to choose the lesser of two evils. #vote subversion Sorry, man. nothing personal. Most suspicious post in a long time. | ||
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On July 22 2010 12:14 DarthThienAn wrote: chaoser, I don't mind dying. Prefer not to, but it's all good if I do. People to look out for when I flip green: Pyrr. Subversion (still got it out for him). youngminii. tree.hugger who fed me the connection between Sub and youngminii. And if those two are guilty then check out Pandain and citi.zen too. People who haven't been posting that I remember: d3 zeks Jayme Laxer Amber (maybe?) I forget who else and can't be bothered to check right now. That's so not nice, I totally defended you and stuff | ||
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7] chaoser (youngminii, Roffles, SouthRawrEa, misder, citi.zen, BrownBear, divinek) 8] Subversion (tree.hugger, bumatlarge, jayme, Amber[LighT], chaoser, iNfuNdiBuLuM, DTA, d3) 1] Amber[LighT] (BloodyC0bbler) Abstain: (lakrismamma, Pandain, tricode) Need to get DTA off the top and get chaoser back up there. | ||
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On July 22 2010 12:51 Subversion wrote: Yeah sure. But the general consensus seems to be they're both town Which brings up why we lynch either anyways But DTA has claimed green, chaoser hasn't claimed at all. I'm working on the assumption that we believe both are town ^_^ If we don't work off that assumption, the argument obv makes no sense. Also, you do not base your votes on whether or not you lynch a green or a blue. You base your votes on whether or not you lynch a red or a town. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:25 tree.hugger wrote: Because he didn't. Either Pyrr is a clever mafia, or a really really bad townie. I'm leaning towards the latter, and seeing as how we don't seem to want to kill the obvious mafia, can we take this one out next? You're not at all. And you never have been. How the hell am I not. Can you keep up with the thread please? I backed hyperbola, I backed DTA and I put my reputation on the line for him. If you think that somehow doesn't buy me any credibility at all you're heavily mistaken. | ||
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It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote: Because it doesn't mean shit if the rest of your cronies will vote for you? Let's be fair, though - I don't have a strong opinion on you yet, so by "your cronies" I just mean "the mafia's cronies". But saying "oh hey I guess that means I'm town" is utterly unconvincing and smacks of manipulation. Says the guy who first voted for DTA back in page 33 and has only made one single post between that voting post and this current post. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote: You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one. I never said I was. I was saying that in response to your question 'What's with the earning your position as townie anyway'. Stop twisting my words. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:37 Subversion wrote: Big fkn surprise this was =/ read:sarcasm Sigh. When is night? Night is now. | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:39 Protactinium wrote: I don't need you to tell me the rules of the game. You and I both know this. When I say "you" I mean it in a general term. You're so hell-bent on trying to appear as town that it works against you. I'm stopping here. There's no point discussing this further as it adds nothing to the thread. Oh I didn't know YOU meant GENERALLY SPEAKING EVERYONE HERE. I didn't know 'Please bring this back up when YOU become one' meant you were talking to everyone else here. What the hell, you make statements like these and you think I SHOULDN'T tell you how to play? | ||
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On July 22 2010 13:50 flamewheel wrote: Whoa, whoa dude... Calm down yo. It's just a game man :/ Edit: lol Don't worry I'm not angry. Kind of difficult to get my point across without sounding angry I suppose. | ||
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Tree.hugger, stop PMing others and post it here for everyone to see. Don't just say 'vote for this person' and 'vote for that person', tell them who you're suspicious of and ask them who they're suspicious of. Do not go around giving orders. It also seems as if you're targeting newer players (although I'm not sure about this). | ||
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On July 22 2010 14:27 Roffles wrote: Yawn, you can count me in on that as well. I however don't pay much attention to PMs and I kinda just said screw it to what he wanted me to do. I don't understand why he's doing that. I just, I don't even... | ||
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On July 22 2010 15:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: FoS tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darththienan, chaoser [/QUOTE] Was quite a while ago, would you like me to un-FoS them? Un-FoS tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darthienan I will still be voting chaoser D3. | ||
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Which is such a fucking stupid argument, might I add, and spreading this misinformation via PMs being a horrible way to play. | ||
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On July 23 2010 07:44 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: ebwop: i mean, if i knew as much as this as you did, i'd be strongly suspecting tree.hugger of being mafia right now. but you don't suspect him. why? If you would read the thread once in a while, you would've read my reasoning earlier. It's okay, I'm kind enough to explain it again. There's no reason for scum to pin me along with Subversion. If Subversion is scum, then tree.hugger wouldn't be lynching him (unless it's epically bad bussing). If Subversion's isn't scum, then what's the point of 'pinning' me to Subversion? It makes no logical sense. Anyway, what's wrong with you people. You lynch DTA and say 'we fucked up' and 'we didn't learn anything'? I'll come back when I have some free time and lay down a solid argument against chaoser. Until then, have fun. | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 23 2010 07:44 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: There's no reason for scum to pin me along with Subversion. If Subversion is scum, then tree.hugger wouldn't be lynching him (unless it's epically bad bussing). If Subversion's isn't scum, then what's the point of 'pinning' me to Subversion? It makes no logical sense.[/QUOTE] Are you two blind or are my initial suspicions correct that you're both scum? Jesus. | ||
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What am I refusing to share? Obviously I'm going to be hostile when my scum suspects are ganging up on me, no shit. Why don't you stop dodging MY question and answer how am I dodging the question? How am I refusing to share information? How am I being uncooperative? | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Look, this is every post you made between the Tree Hugger PM post and the post where you answered me saying you had "already answered the question: + Show Spoiler [posts] + On July 22 2010 14:09 youngminii wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot the most important part: the question. Pretty much, why are you doing this via PM when you can just do it publicly in the thread? Is it because you're avoiding any counter arguments so that your PM recipients will have an easier time believing/trusting you or is it something else? On July 22 2010 14:12 youngminii wrote: Ya I'd have asked for protection too but that's literally giving suicide bomber free medic kills. On July 22 2010 14:31 youngminii wrote: I don't understand why he's doing that. I just, I don't even... On July 22 2010 14:54 youngminii wrote: I dunno I feel as if I'll get NK'd tonight. My spidey senses are tingling. On July 22 2010 14:58 youngminii wrote: Don't want to bring back the useless debate, ignoring your post. On July 22 2010 15:25 youngminii wrote: I hope you enjoy reading. On July 23 2010 09:01 youngminii wrote: Don't edit at all in any situation for any reason without BM's approval. On July 23 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote: He didn't tell anyone different things if my assumptions are correct. He said something like "we lynch subversion and we've got youngminii, we lynch DTA and we've got nothing" Which is such a fucking stupid argument, might I add, and spreading this misinformation via PMs being a horrible way to play. Like I said, the answer wasn't in there even though you said it was. If you'll notice this game I have never once said I thought you were red. I have been asking you questions, because you've been making some out of the ordinary posts. Your reactions to these questions have generally been hostile, uncooperative (see: the reply I am quoting) and overall it seems like you think I don't like you or something. Which personally, I don't understand. I'm a pretty friendly guy. But when my questions are met with you saying things like "this is the scummiest post ever," or "you are fucking bad," - which are things you have actually typed in this thread, paraphrased - is it any wonder why I don't think you're meeting me on equal grounds here? Now, maybe I really am a fucking idiot, but that explanation you gave previously didn't make any sense to me and I and probably several others would like it if you could just be clear about things instead of saying "I'm not dodging the question" while continuing to dodge the question! Look, if you really are town, your abrasive reactions aren't helping you at all and will help you get lynched more than anything I could ever muster. And there really hasn't been that much pressure on you at all this game, so I'd hate to see you react under actual intense scrutiny. On July 23 2010 12:05 youngminii wrote: There's no reason for scum to pin me along with Subversion. If Subversion is scum, then tree.hugger wouldn't be lynching him (unless it's epically bad bussing). If Subversion's isn't scum, then what's the point of 'pinning' me to Subversion? It makes no logical sense. Now I'm just getting annoyed because you seem to be fucking blind. I've said this three times already. Go read the mafia manifesto or something. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:24 chaoser wrote: Also, where have you EVER heard someone say "I'm excited about the kills"? This is the same person who said "mafia made no mistakes so far". Gloating as mafia/being excited for kills (WHICH NO TOWNIE SHOULD BE SINCE DEATHS=LESS OF US) is VERY SCUMMY I would like you to find the post in which I said "mafia made no mistakes so far". I also do not recall saying "I'm excited about the kills", but I sure am excited to see Day 3 and what happened on Night 2. Please don't pull things out of your ass and please stop coming to false conclusions. Thanks. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:27 chaoser wrote: By the way, I was on top of the lynch list for a VERY long time while Subversion slowly moved down to 6 VOTES while me and DTA were up at 9 ish. At the end he moves to 8. That's what I mean when I say would mafia leave it so damn close. If i was mafia, I'd be as safe as Subversion. One vote my way from DTA's group would have killed me. Weak argument. Endless possibilities. All mafia were stacked on DTA's group and hence could not help you. Mafia are noob and do not want to be exposed as mafia so they purposely do not help you since DTA is still leading the vote list. Mafia are AFK. etc. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:30 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Youngminii post response generator v 0.89b Output: you are the scummiest bad player ever, can you even read? Your play is so awful I don't understand? Accept output [y/n] I would like to ask you the same question. Please read my post at least 3 times carefully and then wisely respond. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:31 Pandain wrote: Nah Youngmini both of these things happened. But it doesn't matter because Chaoser is totally drawing huge speculations from these sentences. I mean, I'm excited about the kills too. He thinks he was killed, why wouldn't he be excited? Okay now you're getting me quite annoyed. I have never said mafia made no mistakes so far. Plus even if I did it doesn't mean anything, thanks. | ||
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Anyway, back to chaoser. Why are you bringing up subversion? Also, where have you EVER heard someone say "I'm excited about the kills"? This is the same person who said "mafia made no mistakes so far". Gloating as mafia/being excited for kills (WHICH NO TOWNIE SHOULD BE SINCE DEATHS=LESS OF US) is VERY SCUMMY I don't see what this has to do with anything we were talking about. Subversion's scumness doesn't have a thing to do with what I said previously. | ||
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Nothing's personal, no one's 'attacked' anyone verbally, the only things that have been happening are accusations and argumentative responses. The only thing I can see that may be seen as offensive is where infundiblxublxjum and I said read our posts, which isn't offensive at all, considering we didn't say anything like 'read my posts you fuckin dumb blind moron' or anything. This is mafia. This is a game of deceiving and lying and scumhunting. Aggression is a style of play and I don't see why we're being told to tone it down. | ||
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On July 23 2010 13:43 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: i'm still working out the bugs in the code Okay since apparently I'm being too angry here, I'll stop saying read my posts and I'll explain it for you. The reason I don't believe tree.hugger is scum is because very early in the game I received a PM explaining what tree.hugger has been saying to people. He said (as you should already know) that if subversion is scum, then I am scum too. He also that that if DTA is scum, then I'm still unknown. Now the reason I don't think tree.hugger is scum (I simply think he's a bad town) is because of the following scenarios. 1) Tree.hugger and subversion are both scum In this case, tree.hugger would be doing a very bad form of bussing as he's telling everyone (needlessly) to lynch subversion. Then he would be able to get a lynch off me since he's telling everyone that I'm connected to subversion (I don't even know how that works) but no scum is stupid enough to do this form of play. 2) Tree.hugger is scum and subversion is town Well, tree.hugger COULD just be spreading this information to lynch subversion. But then that removes the possibility of being able to lynch me (in the near future). There's no reason for scum to needlessly link me to subversion if subversion is town, because that rules out the theory of me being scum too. 3) Tree.hugger is town and subversion is scum/town Tree.hugger is bad town spreading information via PM by fortune of bad play. Most likely. | ||
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I agree that the timing of the votes made it seem like subversion was 'saved' but there's the equal possibility of them simply being townies that voted for chaoser. It's a weak argument by me but an argument nonetheless. As for the newbie card, I have mixed feelings about it. I think I've already said this but I used to follow a policy of ignoring the newbie card and always lynching the person because they seemed the most suspicious. This doesn't actually work very well as the people using the newbie card are usually.. Well.. Newbies. So I do believe it and I'll actually be quite surprised if he flips red. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:07 BrownBear wrote: Hmm fair point. Alright, I'll bite. I also agree that we should have enough info by 3 real-life days from now to lynch, so ##Vote: Abstain ##Vote: Double Lynch (the abstain will change, obviously, but just incase some disaster happens it would be nice to cover all my bases) Unfortunately they're invalid because it's still night Or is it like, twilight/dawn or something. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:38 Pandain wrote: I think if the Vigi didn't make a hit, they should claim so now. If they don't claim so now, then BC is NOT lying. I think that's a solid inference. No. | ||
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2/2 Veterans alive 2/2 Town KP roles alive 1/2 Medic alive 2/2 DTs alive | ||
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@BM: You forgot to cross out DTA, there's only 19/24 town aligned players left | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:48 chaoser wrote: I do however know that a Vigi hit SOMEONE tonight. That Vigi should claim since they are regular townie now and say who they hit and why. Mafia doesn't gain anything from them claiming, I think. Also, if it's a false claim, real Vigi can always claim as well and then we have a 1 v 1. Either way, one mafia is dying if they fake claim. I'm also going to go to sleep but I feel I have enough evidence to compile a case against someone by tomorrow morning There's no way of us knowing whether or not the claim is true or false. There may or may not be one or two Vigis and even then 2 scum can step up and counter claim. | ||
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You have to take in the whole picture and think about the possibility that BC is false claiming. He could just be claiming as it'll give him instant 'credibility'. He could be claiming to derail the flame war that happened between me, infundiblusdcxum and chaoser (which my paranoid little self is tending to learn towards). He could be claiming to just create confusion within the town. He could be claiming because mafia have this awesome scheme planned for the game ahead of us. Or his claim can be real. Just don't forget the possibility of his claim being fake. Don't rush to form any PM trust circles with him. There's quite a chance he's Godfather and that he chose Vet from the start if he's going to make such a bold false claim. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:53 Subversion wrote: Please stop doing this. It's really annoying. "No." is not a post that contributes anything. Point taken. | ||
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two people on the line. | ||
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##Vote chaoser | ||
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[spoiler] Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler + And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes. I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die. Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first. ##unvote ##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time. | ||
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Chaoser joins infundilbusxum in his accusation against me (during the spam/flame war). Notice how chaoser never actually fully accused me by himself even though I was so against him? He's too careful to try and start something against me because that would give him even more negative light when I don't flip red. But with his mate at his side and my gaining a bad image from my 'anger', he takes the opportunity to cause me some trouble. | ||
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On July 24 2010 10:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The biggest issue I actually see with young isn't neccesarily that he is scum, but he is playing in such a disruptive manner that it makes it really hard to analyze players. He points his finger at alot of people, comes off super aggressive and spams an insane amount. It inhibits solid town play. As much as he seems town, he also doesn't seem to be doing a good job furthering town ideals. I see that, but chaoser's going against me doesn't help one bit. And by solid town play, do you mean tree.hugger's sneaky PMs? In that case, would you prefer me to mass PMs to everyone next game telling them to lynch who I want? | ||
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On July 24 2010 11:41 tree.hugger wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 24 2010 11:04 Tricode wrote: ##vote Abstain Place holder. I want to see what everyone says before I place my vote. And what is the point of abstaining? Abstaining doesn't do squat. Why post at all? Why not just not post and not vote? If everyone abstained all the time, then we wouldn't get anything done. Are people ever 100% sure that other people are mafia? Of course not! But you still have to vote anyway. You've abstained two straight days. If the mafia has influenced any of our votes (oh wait, they've all been close, the mafia has literally been at liberty to pick the people they want dead) then you are pretty much the most responsible person. Are you going to vote this time? And what the hell do you mean that you're going to wait to see what people say? You said, back on page 82 that: On July 23 2010 16:24 Tricode wrote: When you guys do kill me to prove what I am saying, I will be honest, I tried reading this thread but it is hard with flame wars and ridiculous claims and finger pointing. You hate reading the thread. But furthermore, you, through your actions of last night, have essentially become one of the town's most valuable resources. If you took any kind of initiative, you could help the town organize. Set an example and start posting constructively. Use your position as the game's most confirmed player to get people together, and forming a better circle. Don't just abstain and sit back. We've had two people survive hits, and one outted Day Vigi, and there's not even the hint that the town has an effective circle together. We're literally playing against one of the worst mafia openings in recent memory, and we're not getting anywhere, thanks primarily to you. (and Pandain, but he can't help it) Get your act together, and play, or be subbed out for someone who will. I just love how you point fingers without any evidence and try and get on everyone's good side (PMing people, sucking up to BC). You don't even respond to my analysis and just say "spammer bad scum that's always wrong". Great play. | ||
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On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: My case on Chaoser. [spoiler] Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time.[spoiler] Going to repost this because tree.hugger seems to believe he's above certain players. | ||
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Come forth brethren and lynch chaoser! | ||
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It's not very hard. | ||
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On July 24 2010 15:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Do you not realize how pm circles work? He is the direct contact of a "dt" who would be working with the contact of another dt, etc.. If hes red, two people pm him seperately with contacts, he can get info quite easily once you know who someone is. Offs them. If red, his DT is actually non existant. He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. HE still ends up in a better position. You would get tops of one red, for however many confirmed blues/greens you give him + names of circles to snipe. It bewilders me that this is lost on you when he can easily prove his case while maintaining the circle he wants to create. Can you pay attention for a minute? I'm saying that he gives the second DT group the name of the original DT. The second DT group can confirm with the DT that citi.zen claims is DT. If he does claim, then it's guaranteed that either citi.zen + DT are both scum or citi.zen + DT are both town. Information such as 'this guy is blue' won't be given out (until maybe later in the game where it's pretty much confirmed that the groups are real), only 'this guy is not red' would be passed around. We would get tops of TWO reds and he doesn't get any blue information until later. I can't believe you don't see this, it's blatantly obvious. | ||
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Town KP role should definitely claim. | ||
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On July 24 2010 15:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Your also assuming that his DT is fine with his name being passed along to until they can confirm eachother an unconfirmed "dt" which leads into possible mafia faking dt to get his info. So instead of bagging two red, a dt can still die. Your idea also has its problems. Yes I am assuming that his DT is fine. Please think logically, why would citi.zen's trust circle have any problems dealing with the second trust circle? If there's only one trust circle that approaches citi.zen then it's guaranteed that they're town. Only something like what you're doing where you try and get the second group NOT to claim to citi.zen hampers this theory. If two trust circles approach citi.zen then he can decide what to do from there. | ||
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On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: My case on Chaoser. + Show Spoiler + Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler + And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes. I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die. Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first. ##unvote ##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time. It's okay tree.hugger, you don't have to read this. You're clearly too good at this game to deal with my incessant postings. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Because I am 100% certainbased on how hes been playing that if he is legit there is a bomb on me. He has posted more than once that he has suspicions on me, so regardless, I'd die. So if i was scum, no it wouldn't be 3 free kills. You are taking huge leaps of faith whereas you shouldn't be in a position where if hes mafia, town loses. The tiny holes you are describing are actually quite large and I gave a plan to fix said hole, and instead people are wanting to take everything in faith, very scary concept in mafia. IF a DT claimed he would have to offer a red, a vig would have to claim his shot and be willing to die to prove it/be checked, etc... The fact your expectations of a hatter in a much more sensitive spot doesn't meet the same standard is just odd. My leaps of faith do not put us in a situation where if he's mafia town loses. I told you time and time again there's no loss for town if citi.zen is scum. You are the one taking leaps of faith saying "100% certain there's a bomb on me" and you seem to believe in all these little holes. They're not large, it's not town loss if citi.zen is scum and why would you want to off yourself (if you're so sure citi.zen has a bomb)? 3 lives is a huge price to pay just to check citi.zen. This is quite suspicious. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:26 tree.hugger wrote: What did I even say about you? My post was a comment on the two votes in quick succession to lynch South. Not everything is about you. On July 24 2010 16:04 tree.hugger wrote: Mafia have been posting, they always do, and we should be able to find them based on evidence, not lack of evidence. Not that I don't think southrawrea could easily be mafia, but I want to lynch someone who is active and who has people attached to him. | ||
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I have an even better plan than your 'kill 3 people to confirm 1 DT'. Why can't we get the second DT to just check the proposed DT and citi.zen? Your logic seems like that of one who's grasping at straws. There's absolutely no downside to the plan if citi.zen is scum. We don't need a huge trust circle that is passing on every single bit of information with each other, which wouldn't be optimal even if the DTs were confirmed because of possible GF in the group. We just need a huge trust circle that is passing on the relevant information. | ||
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He gives the DT's name to the groups hence there are 2 scum on the line. What are scum gonna do knowing that this guy is green and that guy is green? It will become extremely obvious later in the game if they are lying, an easy out. DT checking them is always a viable option. 4 night kills for mafia in two nights. 2 hatter kills + hatter death + 2 night kills for mafia in one night. No. | ||
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##Vote SouthRawrea Sorry dude I know it's your first game and all but mafia's gotta be lynched. | ||
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On July 25 2010 03:52 SouthRawrea wrote: So far I've been trying to slip under the radar so I don't get lynched early on or killed at night. I've actually only placed one bomb thus far as I was a little hesitant to kill place two people at risk even if I suspect them. My only one at the moment is on chaoser but that was placed yesterday after seeing that he didn't get lynched. I decided to abstain from placing a second bomb because of the first vote placed on me by Bumat... I felt threatened. :/ ## Vote Citizen for now SouthRawr false claims. He is under heavy scrutiny and has barely participated in the game and the scum team knows his usefulness is running out. They make one last attempt to make use of him by agreeing for him to counter claim citi.zen. They also make him say that he placed a bomb no chaoser to try and 'remove' any suspicion on him. Chaoser now goes into a state of bussing as he tries to make the most of the situation. If SouthRawr gets lynched, chaoser will come out looking innocent, if he doesn't get lynched, chaoser's rep remains the same. If he IS bomber like he says he is, it'll just be me and him dying. That gives a lot of information against me/him such as those who where making a strong case against me/people who ADMITTEDLY jumped on him. If he's mafia, we just killed a mafia, good job, we still can't 100% trust citi.zen since it could be a ploy to sac one mafia to make the other one more trusted. Not saying that I don't trust you citi.zen, I'm just saying that's a possibility. On July 25 2010 05:31 chaoser wrote: We're not saying he's 100% confirmed and that everyone, blue included, should run to him roleclaiming, we're saying you gotta die. I'm fine with dying with you and if you really were town, you wouldn't mind dying. Both of you claimed bomber. There can only be 1 bomber since Tricode said he was vigi. Unless he's lying and both of you are bombers but that means BC is lying too about being hit. Someone HAS to die, either you or citi.zen cause you both claimed. We can get lots of information depending on how you flip. I'd rather you die cause if you ARE red, there's lots of info that would come out of it. If you aren't info still comes out but the better thing is that only TWO people will die, me and you. Citi.zen said he placed both his bombs. That's 3 dead. Let's go to heaven together if you're townie baby. Look at this play: By saying "I'm willing to die with you to confirm citi.zen's bomber claim" he can look 'innocent'. He KNOWS that citi.zen's claim is real and so he puts on this charade to make the most of this situation. This is all assuming SouthRawr is red. What else can we learn from this? I'm only focusing on chaoser's posts in regard to SouthRawr's claim, there's heaps more information that can be analysed. Also, this tells us that the mafia team isn't very organised. A truly organised (pro) mafia team wouldn't do this type of play. It sticks out like a sore thumb and has lots of risks involved. Assuming SouthRawr flips red we can safely assume that there may only be one or no 'pro' players in the mafia team. So I implore you, vote SouthRawr as it will give us the most information, more so than lynching citi.zen. I also implore you to double lynch as it will be the most beneficial after this shitstorm. ##Vote Double Lynch | ||
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On July 25 2010 05:51 chaoser wrote: Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said people please trust me if he flips red. I never even bring it up, I'm merely saying that I'm fine with dying with him and he should be too because it helps town. No, but this is what your play suggests. There is a difference between saying something explicitly and meaning something implicitly. | ||
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On July 25 2010 05:59 chaoser wrote: I wasn't even thinking about my being innocent but sure, spin it however you want. If after he had died, I said, haa, look i'm innocent now right? then you'd have a case against me. Right now you're just pulling shit out of your ass. lots of <3 for you though. XOXO Umm... lol Chill out BC, think about this situation. There's lots more information to be had if SouthRawr is lynched than if citi.zen is lynched. Also less 'casualties'. Let's blow this shit wide open. | ||
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There is more information to be gained if SouthRawr is lynched than if citi.zen is lynched. Also, you are a mafia noob, not just a mafia, not just a noob. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Thing is your wrong. Citizen being lynched reveals us A) he is hatter b) he is gf c) he is suicide bomber d)he is townie playing huge gambit e) he is dt (would be bad and he would have to claim this to save himself, although by lying once he could be doing it twice) Now, if he is hatter, he dies kills two people (we get info based on who died remember), we get info based on those heavily accusing him, we get a confirmed dt (the one that checked him has checked someone else remember) his dt can then check the other dt confirming him and the circle is formed regardless and we get a ton of info. We lynch southrawr A) is mafia trying to save himself B) is hatter with one bomb on chaoser C) he flips green and we all go wtf If he dies, we find out hes either a red trying to save himself or that hes a hatter with a bomb on someone you have been pressuring to kill all game. Regardless of his death, all we know is he was inactive till being called out. we get no info on really anyone else in this game. You just want to get chaoser killed and are pushing this. This post doesn't even make sense. Citi.zen being lynched reveals either one of the 5 original scenarios. JUST ONE. And then what? Nothing. There's 2 bombs linked to citi.zen and that's two needless deaths. We lynch southrawr and one of those scenarios goes off again. Except each of those scenarios give more information than any of citi.zen's scenarios (except the DT one). However, if southrawr flips red then that's pretty much confirmation for citi.zen being in a DT group. Yes, I do believe chaoser is red. Yes, this is a great opportunity to get two scum kills. However I have logical reasoning. Your reasoning is flawed at best and you're continually circumventing my arguments and somehow getting away with it. I don't care if you're red or green or blue at the moment, all I know is that we have a golden opportunity at lynching two reds right now and you're standing in the way. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:38 SouthRawrea wrote: That's not the only factor involved though. There is also likelihood based on who we're associating with. Don't we gain info on three total deaths if citi.zen is the mad hatter? There is much more potential info there then the 2 people we know will show up if I die. Also, if I were the mafia how do you gain info on Chaoser? Your supposed evidence that you gain is all circumstantial because of the nature of WIFOM. You sir are and idiot . Mad hatter bomb deaths don't give any information. They give NOTHING. They are just needless deaths and bombs should be saved for the late game. Also, do you know what WIFOM means? I gave solid evidence linking you and chaoser, there's nothing WIFOM or circumstantial about it. | ||
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On July 25 2010 05:46 youngminii wrote: For the record, I'd just like to point out the following. This is assuming SouthRawr flips red. SouthRawr false claims. He is under heavy scrutiny and has barely participated in the game and the scum team knows his usefulness is running out. They make one last attempt to make use of him by agreeing for him to counter claim citi.zen. They also make him say that he placed a bomb no chaoser to try and 'remove' any suspicion on him. Chaoser now goes into a state of bussing as he tries to make the most of the situation. If SouthRawr gets lynched, chaoser will come out looking innocent, if he doesn't get lynched, chaoser's rep remains the same. Look at this play: By saying "I'm willing to die with you to confirm citi.zen's bomber claim" he can look 'innocent'. He KNOWS that citi.zen's claim is real and so he puts on this charade to make the most of this situation. This is all assuming SouthRawr is red. What else can we learn from this? I'm only focusing on chaoser's posts in regard to SouthRawr's claim, there's heaps more information that can be analysed. Also, this tells us that the mafia team isn't very organised. A truly organised (pro) mafia team wouldn't do this type of play. It sticks out like a sore thumb and has lots of risks involved. Assuming SouthRawr flips red we can safely assume that there may only be one or no 'pro' players in the mafia team. So I implore you, vote SouthRawr as it will give us the most information, more so than lynching citi.zen. I also implore you to double lynch as it will be the most beneficial after this shitstorm. ##Vote Double Lynch | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:48 BrownBear wrote: You bring up a very good point here, and I think everyone should read it. It is still possible that Tricode is the liar, and there are 2 Mad Hatters in the game. There has to be a Vigi, there was a third hit on Night 2 remember (assuming d3 was telling the truth, but I have no reason to doubt)? | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:50 citi.zen wrote: You know offering South hasn't saved you, don't you? You just dug the hole deeper. If citi.zen is not red/SouthRawr is red then at least 3 of the following: SouthRawr, chaoser, BC, siniquity and infundibuxlxlum are implicated. I'll write up an analysis (not that any of you will read it) when the actual kill happens. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote: dude your defending a guy whos only post in hours was a FoS on me. HE has ignored how many posts? seriously whats going through your mind. Better than siding with a guy who's many posts in many hours are filled with logical inconsistencies. How do we even know if citi.zen told the second DT party who his DT is? | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:59 tree.hugger wrote: You realized you've essentially just claimed that out of the three Town KP roles that have been claimed, two of them are mafia? You know that right? Where's the fourth claim? We need it now. Find the fourth claim. How does this post correlate in any way to the post you just quoted? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:00 chaoser wrote: It's not silly if he is Suicide Bomber and in the rush of his claim, blues claimed to him. Then when the real one comes forward, hopefully the real one gets lynched, bombs go off, lots of people die. Now he gets to laugh and blow himself up with a few blues. Yeah let's all just go find the smallest, tiniest possibilities and argue from that point of view. | ||
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But more importantly, pick SouthRawrea. There are four possible outcomes: If we lynch citi.zen the Mafia: Then we've taken out one red. We have a town member to form a circle around (SouthRawrea), and this player is 100% new to forum mafia. If we lynch citi.zen the Mad Hatter: Then ASSUMING citi.zen's already given the second DT party (his inactivity cough) AND if we rule out the possibility of TWO DT groups claiming to him, then we have a town circle with a DT. Two people needlessly die and if you all really think that citi.zen's scumhunting abilities are so good, then why don't you trust him on his SouthRawrea hunt? If we lynch Southrawrea the Mafia: Then we gain a whole load of information with many implications (unfortunately no one listens to me anymore). We've got BC backed into a corner, we've got chaoser (imo) and a few more, AND we have a huge townie group with TWO DTs working together. If we lynch Southrawrea the Mad Hatter: Then chaoser dies. Only one death compared to two if citi.zen's Mad Hatter. I do think he's mafia and maybe you would too (directed at tree.hugger) if you got off your high horse and read my analysis posts once in a while. *** God I can't believe how fast you all just follow tree.hugger's bias 'situation report'. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ... citizen if in the dt circle he claimed, wher ehe claimed he told the dt who to check day 2, has a confirmed townie (or he would have offered a red in his original plan). That townie can be the link that citizen wanted to be if citizen flips hatter as his circle just got instantly proven legit. Then the real dt could claim to that link, voila. Mafia faking the claim would get checked and off'd. How are you missing the obvious here? You speak about logical inconsistencies but are ignoring citizens, as well as your own. Wait you WANT DT to publicly claim? Are you kidding me? Did you forget Mafia have 2KP AND a suicide bomber in this game? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:08 BrownBear wrote: Town in this game = sheep, it's ridiculous. Make your own fucking decisions people. Of course, haven't you read Doubt? Town is sheep and Mafia is wolf. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:12 rastaban wrote: Guys I have been staying quiet but I can’t anymore. I was hoping citi.zen would prove his claim but he hasn’t and I am worried about what his plan is. He has already gotten the DT claims. Before the real and asked for us to reveal the DTs. I haven’t heard from him since the counter claim. From Citi.zen: + Show Spoiler + A third DT claim did show up. Which is good - more people are giving themselves up. I will need the name of your Dt when you are satisfied there is no counter claim against me. My DT can then check one of the two and find the real one as well as the red. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Wow, I did't expect that much to go down last night. I think you might have just given us the break town needed to turn this around. I believe at this point if someone was going to claim they would have. The DT felt the same way so I was asked to go ahead and move forward with contacting you. Let me know what we should do next. Thanks, He hasn't mentioned this in the thread, I hate putting myself out there, but if he is playing us I am sure another mouth can confirm. did you ask multiple people to claim to me? ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Anyway I guess at this point we should wait 12~ hours to see if someone else claims DT rep. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Same here, I view the DTs as key, not myself. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Scum wouldn't counter claim, it's suicide. Scum also wouldn't claim what you claimed, it's suicide. Besides it's not like my being alive is very important in the game right now, lost all credibility as a player. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Waw, you didn't wait very long to see if there is a counter claim! ----------------------------------------- Original Message: DT circle rep. I'm slightly suspicious of my DT. Only slightly. | ||
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I represented my DT and claimed to citi.zen. Rastaban did the same. Citi.zen got two DT claims and so he knows something is wrong. If he was scum, he would have kept going as if everything was normal. Instead, he made both rastaban and myself aware that there were more than one DT group claiming. Citi.zen is in the best position possible as town and you should all see that. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:17 BrownBear wrote: I am so fucking confused right now. What I see it as: rastaban has a DT citi.zen has a DT youngminii has a DT Could 2 of these be the same DT? Or have we caught a falseclaimer/the GF? We've caught a falseclaimer. Rastaban isn't in my group. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: A more puzzling thing is this. Two mouths have claimed to citizen, and we have someone counter claiming? The pm rasta showed implies a third claimant (as i doubt citizen would count himself as one) Seems really odd to me. He's counting his DT as one. Look at the next paragraph, he says "we'll check one of the two". You're slipping up more and more BC. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:27 rastaban wrote: Yeah no he didn't go silent, he made an error when he claimed which I pointed out and he gave up. Intead he asked us to give up our DT names... I don't like it. And just like last game when he was GF he has gone completely silent when suspicion is cast on him | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: That's wifom, if citi.zen is red he would have said there were three claims and not said who, so that there was a reason to keep him around to figure out who to go after. That's not wifom, wifom is circular logic. It's called reasoning. Your reasoning is also interesting but it doesn't make complete sense. He wouldn't say 'there were three claims', he would keep it to himself and play on as a gosu mafia that has connections to two DT circles. | ||
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ebwop 'Yeah no he didn't go silent, he made an error when he claimed which I pointed out and he gave up' is meant to be MY post, not part of the quote. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:33 chaoser wrote: guys, please respond to the VERY scummy thing that he did which is keep the triple claim for DT from town. That's VERY WEIRD. What's so weird? It's not like he told town "Okay guys, one DT group contacted me so now we have two DT groups working together". Can't he pull together a bit more information before telling everyone everything? It would also look extremely suspicious if he tells everyone that two DT groups contacted him if he doesn't tell everyone the identities of the DT group reps (me and rastaban). | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I think another thing I wonder and could be horrifically wrong here, but if he has two dt claims that he kept to himself, is it possible he was trying to fish for dt names elsewhere as well? Not sure if its likely but ugh, I am now even more paranoid. He didn't keep it to himself, he basically informed me and rastaban. Also, that's a good point. Another reason why he didn't tell everyone is in case there were others who would try to claim to represent a DT group. Thanks for helping citi.zen's case. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:38 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yeah he says that he's leaving, knowing he could be dead by the time he gets back, and doesn't mention that? Aside: Aren't you glad we killed DTA? If he was still alive, we had a vigi claim, we had two mad hatters claim, AND we had all of DTA's wink and nod posts about mad hattering this would be so much worse. That's why you don't dink around as town. Of course he's glad, he's scum. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Except factor in his skill level and he will most likely have at least 1 red, if not two. Do you not weigh all the variables into your equations? Ahh yes, of course we should weigh in skill level. Of course citi.zen's so good that out of 25 remaining players, he's so good that he PROBABLY bombed one of the 6 mafia. Yes, that's great logic to rely on. | ||
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Except he's saying to lynch South, something you're refusing to do. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:44 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: So all dt claims were in before South counter-claimed mad hatter? i wish there was another word for 'claim' Yes, according to my PM timestamps. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:51 BrownBear wrote: Look at it this way, young: If citi flips blue, we know instantly BC/tree.hugger/all of them are scum. This makes it all the more important that we vote double lynch NOW. I already voted for double lynch. Do you really think they're just going to stop and say "oh yeah shit I guess we were wrong, gg"? They're obviously going to bus SouthRawr tomorrow and look as innocent as they can. Look at this, their arguments are completely flawed yet they are able to get so many town on their side because of sheer numbers. When 6 people continually argue the same flawed argument and post a lot then obviously they're going to pull in some town to agree with them. Same thing will happen tomorrow, trust me. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:58 BrownBear wrote: if they are innocent it's extremely unlikely they'd invest themselves/their reputation in this game THAT MUCH into preventing him from being lynched today. Definitely agree with this quote. BC and his posse are over committing to this waaaaay too much. Thing is, I'm still undecided as to whether or not tree.hugger is bad town or scum. I guess we'll see but he's been staying clear-ish under my scumdar. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:00 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Well I had citizen marked down as blue or maybe red since around Day 1; he was also one of Foolishness suspects. Congratulations on having him marked down as blue or red, that's a great achievement Also, the suspect of a green townie means nothing. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:48 BrownBear wrote: Sigh... I am not entirely convinced this is a good idea. BC has been pissing me off over the last few pages. I still am not sure whether or not SouthRawrea is claiming truthfully. If this ends poorly, then town as a whole is screwed. In these times, I usually tend to vote based on my own analysis and reading of the thread, not the will of the town or the bandwagon du jour. Because I've seen, too many times, the town be wrong. The analysis be flawed or scummy. Town lose a critical vote because rather than see the plain-as-day evidence in front of them, they followed their gut instinct or one person and all voted the wrong way. This is why I was reluctant to change my vote earlier: I didn't think you guys were voting with analysis, I just thought you were following tree.hugger and BC blindly. But there's been mounting pressure, both in the thread and by PM, for me to change my vote. And you know what? I want some fucking answers from citi.zen. I want to know where he's been during this crucial day. I want to know why he wanted the names of the DTs. I want to know why he didn't tell us fucking immediately when he got 3 DT claims. I want to know why rastaban had to blow the lid on that little gem there, via PM reveal no less. I want answers to all of these. And to the people who said lynching citi gives us more information that SR? You're right. If citi flips anything but red, it gives me a whole laundry list to work through So ##Unvote ##Vote citi.zen God, I hope all of you are right. BB let me just ask you to revert your vote. You could be lynching a potentially confirmed townie and two potential townies (even blues) via bombs. This isn't the right way to go for confirmation on the whole scenario, it will be much more effective to lynch SouthRawr. | ||
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I bet the mafia are cracking up behind their screens, oh how easy it was to manipulate the naive town. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:10 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: What did you have him marked down as? This isn't true, and you know it. Foolishness is also a good player, who usually gets decent reads in my experience. Yes it is true, especially that early in the game? It means less than nothing. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:12 SouthRawrea wrote: Back. Grandparents wanted me to eat even though I already did >.> I really don't understand how Youngminii thinks all his arguments are perfect. You're saying things that are illogical. Why would the mafia want to save me if I'm the "noobie mafia" that you say that I am. This especially. Even if I am 100% new, I can pick up pretty quick especially if I get this circle to help me out. Also, we get rid of one of the mafia's top members who could possibly have power over the DTs if he really got those claims. If he's blue, he should at least tell us if one of his bomb targets at this time is me so that the vilage knows what voting him would do. We then have many scum to pick on as you have pointed out so well. (Chaoser for example) and we get me supposing that I am mafia. If I'm mafia, I as well as a few others have already said why your line of reasoning was wrong. We do in fact gain more info from killing citizen as mafia rather than me. If I'm town, we get Chaoser who you ALREADY believe is red and we still have our Mad Hatter to place bombs while being directed by a new town circle. As well, because I'm such a noob, mafia may be reluctant to kill me immediately tonight which gives us a chance to get order in the town. My post was actually a parody of tree.hugger's, it wasn't meant to be taken 100% seriously (even though some good points are in it), I was just trying to show how stupid it is to blindly follow a post that has logical inconsistencies and over exaggerations just because 5/6 other scum rally behind the post. But yes, your play has been less than spectacular in this game and there's no reason to trust you to make any game deciding decisions. Your arguments are now following BC's style of arguing, filled with horrible flaws. I wouldn't be surprised if BC just PM'd you with that entire post and told you to copy and paste it into this thread. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:20 bumatlarge wrote: You're saying you think BC and South are possibly linked together? Is tricode innocent then and BC just got really lucky? I don't know about tricode. I'm more than saying that BC and South are 'possibly' linked together, I'm betting on it. | ||
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I don't care what you have against it, just listen and do it if he does flip green. SouthRawrea Chaoser BC Infundibuxdlgxcubum tree.hugger Fake claimer (I have an idea of who it is) There's a likely chance that one person in this list will be town but it will be a fair trade. No buts, no arguments, just straight lynching. | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:50 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I'm starting to think there are no mafia and BM is just picking the kills at night lol bastard modding at it's finest. On July 25 2010 09:49 tree.hugger wrote: He should show some respect to other people playing the game. That doesn't mean that you need to take your foot off the pedal when going after mafia, but this stuff? It's just petty, and has no place in these games. Uhh, I had no idea that misspelling a name meant I was showing disrespect. It's a light joke and if you can't handle it then you shouldn't be on a forum dedicated to GAMING. I can't believe you have the nerve to call it petty. Shows how much you know about respect. If he has a problem with it, I'll be glad to stop. | ||
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LOLOL jokes | ||
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So who's got the majority? | ||
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Chaoser BC Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) | ||
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SouthRawrea Chaoser BC Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) Quote this every page. Thanks. | ||
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SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) Quote this every page. Thanks. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:20 Pandain wrote: Okay... way to not give me a chance. Youngmini, you were I was the true rep of the DT. We used you because you came up green but we were unsure as to whether you were GF. Therefore, we came up with a plan that if I died, you would be GF, or at least likely. Citizen knew about this, he coaxed it out of me. Don't know if he told anyone else though? Did he? Bad post. Bad play. Sounds like something someone would say if he was backed into a corner. Also, I warned you that I would expose you if you didn't change your vote to SouthRawrea (assuming citi.zen would flip green). | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:22 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I dunno how to make this any clearer: Being Townie 101 1. Do not lie to town. 1a. Do not pretend to be blue. Being Blue 101 1. Do not lie to town. 2. Do not give your blue role to someone who isn't fully confirmed, especially not in the first couple of days. We've had so much trouble over the past 3 days because of the refusal of good players to stick to the fundamentals. Some people want to be flashy, they wanna be a hero, they are impatient, etc. The key to town is to act as a crowd, to not stick out. That way, the mafia sticks out and gets caught. When town members get these bright ideas about goofing around to draw out reds they just end up sticking out themselves. Don't worry at this rate we'll win. Don't play as if you're trying to cover up for the current list of scum (which is what this post appears to be doing). You'll be my next scum suspect if the current list doesn't catch all scum. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:23 Pandain wrote: The problem is that we were going to let young into the circle yet as soon as citizen turns out to be green(not even blue) he just recklessly posts it. Lol 'recklessly'. I warned you. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:25 chaoser wrote: You can hit me if you want, I'mma flip green. Either way, I'mma go get my popcorn cause youngminii is hellbent on killing me This is exactly what I am hellbent on doing. I'm just going to be spamming the list until this game ends. BC SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:26 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Dude you've already posted that bright red list multiple times and I'm sure you are gonna repost it intermittently for the next 72 hours unless BM threatens to modkill you for spamming. Oh crap I didn't even think of being modkilled for spamming Okay I guess I could ease up a bit. In any case, I'd like the Mad Hatter to place their bombs on people on this list (not the top because we're hopefully lynching them the next day) so maybe put bombs on people at the bottom of the list? | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:27 Pandain wrote: Yeah, but right away? Heck. HE WASNT EVEN BLUE! You can't deny that citizen had been playing weird. He had been. Everyone knows that, and its evidence from his plans within plans and fakeclaiming. Youngmini we were doing a logical play to figure out if your mafia. It didn't reveal the true dt. 'logical play', okay. This is the most far fetched story I've ever seen come out of a mafia game and I don't care if you're green/blue/red at this point. The majority of the people on the list make up mafia and if you need to be sacrificed to get rid of that entire list, then so be it. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:30 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Young, you know that if South is blue, the mafia spread their votes across both lists and let the town fight over the lynch. Sure, yeah okay. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:29 zeks wrote: Medic i'm asking for protection today as I have been a citi.zen supporter and scum will probably think I was in his circle and nail me Make this decision accordingly - mafia is in a fucking corner now and I would not be one bit surprised if the suicide bomber is used Feels good to have mafia pinned. | ||
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No, you will not be spared. Also, I like my hit list and I will keep it that way. Also, if citi.zen is telling the truth and SouthRawr is not, then Tricode is almost definitely also telling the truth, hence Tricode should not be on the list. BC SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:35 Pandain wrote: Seriouslly, wtf man. It's been 5 minutes and look at everything you're saying "MUST BE DONE!" Read, think,evaluate. Dont rush to conclusions and rash plans. No, we've already come to a conclusion and a well defined plan that was formed even before citi.zen died. The only thing that could possibly come out of 'reading thinking evaluating' and wasting anymore time is that scum could post up alternate theories and back each other up which will pollute the mind of the newbie/inactive townies leading to a change in momentum from pressure on mafia to another wasted lynch. The list I am spamming is the only plan we should follow and that is that. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I'm serious; stop being a dick. If South is blue then Day 3 was perfect for mafia. They have 1-2 people come out and argue for lynching citizen (someone like BC, tree hugger, or me) and a couple others to start the wagon on South (e.g. you, zeks, or lakrismamma). The town just eats up the bullshit since a mafia was never in danger of getting lynched due to citizen fronting for the mad hatter rather than actually being the mad hatter. Basically the entire duality of Citi/South was thrown because citizen was not the role he said he was, so instead of being at Citi/South/Tricode we're at South/Tricode/Mystery Player. We can still trust citi.zen that the Mystery Player exists, BECAUSE citi.zen flipped green. It's pretty much the same as citi.zen flipping MH except that now it's even better because MH is hidden. We KNOW that it's either South or Tricode that's lying. It's almost definite that South is lying and you're backing him up with a whole host of other scum. If South ends up flipping blue, oh damn well we've got Tricode. Also, I apologise for being a dick, I guess I'm just happy that mafia are cornered and I don't want anything to jeopardise the win. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:42 Pandain wrote: No. Shut up. I'm sorry, you're going to ruin the game if you keep acting like this. Your theories are not fact. Stop thinking that you can already know what the answer is 5 minutes in. And the only thing that can come out of reading thinking and evaluating is a reasonable, logical thing. Listen to yourself. "MUST NOT THINK, MUST GO ALONG WITH PLAN NO MATTER WHAT". I know you think you've won and "saved the day" but you haven't man. If anything your going to ruin it. Really, I've yet to come across anyone giving a reasonable counter explanation. No, I do not count your "we were working with citi.zen, but for some reason citi.zen didn't say anything about it to anyone" theory as a reasonable explanation. I know I'm being loud because people DO need it drilled through their heads that this list will win the game. Lots of people are too easily swayed by mafia and they will do anything to shine a bad light on me etc. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:43 tree.hugger wrote: You have these abilities in varying qualities, but you don't have the most important trait in mafia, which is patience, and cool headedness. I'm going to go ahead and agree with you here. In any case, @BC I had already warned Pandain that I would reveal him and he seemed to accept that just fine. He claims he was 'working' with citi.zen yet he goes ahead and convinces everyone to vote for him. His play (we've been PMing since day 1) has been sloppy and even if he was DT, it isn't necessary anymore to win. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:49 Pandain wrote: Wtf that is such a convuluted version of my story. In case I actually misled any of you, I'll say it again. I find, through means I'm not going to tell, that ??? is DT. Now, ??? tells me he checked young and amber. Both are green. However, up to that point, and still up to THIS point, youngmini had been acting very rash, and rough, possibly anti town. Therefore, we were afraid young was GF. Then here I am, Funkmaster K, and I'm like "Hey, I'll pretend to be DT to youngmini. If I die this night, young is probably GF and you can bust him. If I don't, we can trust him!" There. Any more questions? Also: Being loud doesn't mean your right -.- If you listen carefully you can hear the soft reasonings behind my loudness. And yeah that theory makes no sense, It's Night 3 now and you're claiming DT has already checked 3 times (me, you and amber). You just made the same mistake citi.zen did last game by slipping up your claim. You are now 100% red in my eyes. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The issue being, hes claiming you were checked by DT and claiming dt mouth, your claiming hes mafia who fake claimed. IF hes town that would in turn almost guarentee your guilt. He is new however and his play may have been sloppy, but your not doing much better. You are refusing to read the information I am giving out. I have more than enough reason to believe he's fake claiming including his claim that he was working with citi.zen and all the other stuff he's been feeding me for the past few days. Also his reluctance to change his vote from citi.zen to SouthRawrea. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:53 Pandain wrote: I never said he checked me. I think this is going to be flame war soon. <--- Getting bit angry. I'll try to let other people defend me unless everyone starts believing young. So now you're claiming your DT came up to you and told you all this information without having even confirmed you? Even when he already had 2 people to trust? Bad theory is bad. | ||
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On July 25 2010 11:03 tree.hugger wrote: Basically, it works like this: We lynched citi.zen because in doing so, we would find out which he was, and thus Southrawrea would be the other. Of course, we could've done the same thing by lynching Southrawrea, but due to suspicions I, and many others held, along with the advantage of catching a bigger fish, or using the skill of a superior hatter, we decided that citi.zen was the better target. However, the fact that citi.zen is NOT the MH candidate, makes our choice a mistake. Whereas lynching Southrawrea would've had the same effect; either validating citi.zen and his friend/Tricode, lynching citi.zen means that we still have a third option on the table; namely that citi.zen was a pawn of the GF. And now we can't ask him about it. Not only that, but if this is the case, then the GF knows both detectives. Or Southrawrea could be mafia. Or Tricode and Bc could be mafia. We should've had two choices, but now we still have three. So here's what we need to do. If citi.zen's MH was the mafia, then we could probably call gg right now, because we're done. At any rate, our detectives should make sure to confide in someone that they trust, because they'll both die. A suicide bomber is likely in this scenario, and that means Southrawrea would die as well, leaving a total of five town deaths and one mafia death in a night. But because of how bleak this other outlook is, I think we have no choice but to reject it. We can't win the game that way, and so we shouldn't even consider it, and pretend like citi.zen's death has given us the two-pronged choice that we aimed for. I'm forced to believe that this is a mafia attempt at covering up the situation at hand. I've tried all game to ignore tree.hugger's scummy posts because I had an initial suspicion that he was town which I clearly followed throughout the whole game. If he isn't mafia I just have to /facepalm really hard. We are following my list, even if I'm being over-excessively loud about it. | ||
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You're so screwed. | ||
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On July 25 2010 11:09 Pandain wrote: Hahaha didn't mean that. Young, the sooner you stop trying to paint me as mafia and look at logic, the shorter the embarrasement is going to be after the game. So how are you going to argue your whole "I was working with citi.zen" theory now that someone from his group has claimed? | ||
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On July 25 2010 11:13 tree.hugger wrote: I'm going to take some time off from this game. I'm sick of analyzing things only to have people turn out to not have been telling the truth, and then for the town to be worse off because of it. And I'm sick of Youngminii. Coming from the man who said shit about people not being respectful. Look at yourself. | ||
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I'll be back later 'cause I have to go out (yeah I know, such an important moment). I'll just post the big red list one more time, I know I'm sorry tree.hugger I guess you'll just have to live with it. BC SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibuxdlgxcubum Pandain (Claimed DT) Amber[Light] (Pandain claimed to have checkd him) Tree.hugger (moved tree.hugger to the bottom 'cause it's likely he's just bad town) | ||
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On July 25 2010 23:01 Amber[LighT] wrote: YM it would actually be a really good idea for you to give out your "DT." I know you think I'm scum, but the numbers don't add up. There's no possible way I could have been checked if three people + citi.zen were checked... I can't find the post where someone listed everyone who claimed already. Think about it dude... either you are making some outrageous claim against me, or your DT is shady. I did quite a while ago. It's the same as the 'DT' in your group. Pandain claimed to me that he was DT then after I revealed this to everyone, he changed his play saying "Oh no I was just lying to cover up for the real DT to try and figure out if you (me) were a GF or not". He claims that DT checked you, me and blindly went up to Pandain with all this information without even having checked DT. He also claims that he talked to citi.zen which has been confirmed, however citi.zen rejected any offer that Pandain had because of suspicion etc. Also, I find it kind of funny that Pandain lynches citi.zen (also after I explicitly told him not to, and that I would expose him if he did and citi.zen flipped green, which was met with no rebuttal) because citi.zen false claimed to protect a blue whereas Pandain literally did the same thing yet expects people to blindly follow him. | ||
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On July 26 2010 02:07 Pandain wrote: Just clearing it up so everyone can hear my story. I found out about DT, and confronted him. He didn't go up to me. He gave me the information because I already knew he was DT lol. And I didn't have any offer for citizen, don't know where that came from. Yeah, that's still an incredibally stupid thing to do considering you had no proof I was fake claiming. What If I was the real DT? You could've just revealed me. This is why we can't just reveal anyone to the DT, cause they could do stupid stuff like this. I don't expect people to blindly follow me, I expect them to trust me. Just like how we now trust citizen. The difference being I came right out and said it while citizen delayed until like 5 minutes before night lol. You came right out and said it AFTER I revealed you. At least citi.zen claimed BEFORE day ended. It doesn't matter if you approached DT, the fact that he did not have any evidence that you are town is an obvious reason for him not to trust you. Also, I had all the proof I needed. You lynched citi.zen without a second thought after I threatened to reveal you if citi.zen flipped green. You didn't even seem to care about this, if you really were DT/DT rep you would have tried to reason with me. Also, I'll be quite surprised if you're actually town, but I would assume that would mean your DT is playing you, unless Zeks comes out with new info. | ||
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My paranoid theory? BC and SouthRawrea are setting themselves to die (sacrifice) by some epic bussing in a last ditch effort to save their teammates at the very least. They use BC and SouthRawrea because they're the most suspicious right now. Don't take any posts that condemn them seriously (after the claim). | ||
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##Vote BC ##Vote Double Lynch I would just like to say, Subversion was a terrible, terrible DT. Pandain is either GF or he's hugging on to his newbie card for dear life. | ||
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YOU GAVE HIM ALL YOUR INFORMATION WITHOUT CONFIRMING HIS ROLE. Ignore my previous post about Pandain being GF, I completely forgot that YOU DIDN'T EVEN CHECK HIM. I outed your UNCHECKED rep, I'm GLAD you're out of this game. If Pandain flips red this is what you did: you told mafia that you're DT and you told him all the information that you were able to gain. Good work. | ||
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Here's the facts.
Now I actually LIKE the fact that people aren't just going along with the flow and voting for the first thing they see, ie. "Oh look, people are voting for BC/SouthRawrea, I guess I'll just follow along like a sheep". Having your own opinion is extremely important in this game and if everyone had played like this on the first two days, Hyperbola and DTA would not have died, so I applaud town for not having gone and quick-lynched BC/SouthRawrea yet. However, you should be able to go over all that's happened and form your own decision and I'm certain that your own decision will eventually be "I'm going to lynch BC/SouthRawrea". When reading their posts, keep in mind of what mafia would say if they were in BC/SouthRawrea's position and remember that BC is a very, very good player. | ||
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On July 26 2010 16:35 ~OpZ~ wrote: But you most also remember what the mafia would say if they knew BC wasn't mafia.... But south will probably be lynched....I ain't having another Caller-esque escape....ya know? Actually I've only played one other mafia game on TL so I wouldn't about this Caller-esque escape o.o But yeah you have a point as to what mafia would say. Everyone just had to keep their eyes peeled and watch any subtle movements but make sure to not fall into a spiral of WIFOM. | ||
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I expect to see BC and SouthRawrea lynched the next time I check though, will be strange if something goes wrong. Now the real question... To play campaign or to play ladder... | ||
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On July 27 2010 00:24 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: d3 and lakrismamma why the fuck did you guys just do that? ...Because that was the plan before the random shitstorm that appeared out of nowhere | ||
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I DO! | ||
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On July 28 2010 11:47 Pandain wrote: quick! Make a compilation of your thoughts before you die! BC: I'm not scum you fools. BM: BloodyC0bbler, Suicide Bomber/Infested Terran, lynched Day 3 Also, SouthRawrea, Mafia, lynched Day 3 | ||
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Looks like this game is in the bag. | ||
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On July 28 2010 13:36 chaoser wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOO Fix'd. | ||
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On July 28 2010 13:38 chaoser wrote: Thanks youngminii. How about we have a bet. If I flip red, you get to make me do something on TL. If I flip green, I get to make you do something on TL. Yeah? Lol sounds good to me | ||
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SouthRawrea Chaoser Infundibulum Pandain Amber[Light] tree.hugger | ||
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Zeks, I apologise if you wanted to break the news to everyone but I'm kind of afraid people will roleclaim to him by accident or something before you come on. Pandain is Mafia. He has been checked by the DT Zeks is in contact with. He had some small doubts as to whether he was Miller or not but now Miller's dead so... Yeah. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: haha, dude, you actually gained alot. BM said majority lynch, I hit majority like 36 hours before post went up. Soon as I saw i hit majority I stopped checking here. Rule revisions/ignorings rock from hosts. Regardless, GG also thanks for not being retarded over this last day. Once game is over, I will have a semi large writeup to share with you all weeee. I can totally predict what it'll say about me. "youngminii is a loose cannon that just got lucky and spams a lot" Which is pretty true I suppose Oh hell no, I didn't even think about a second Miller being possible. Either way, there's still a good chance you're mafia Pandain. | ||
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On July 28 2010 15:31 ~OpZ~ wrote: and everyone that wanted to hold off on voting for BC, should be looked at with huge suspicion. It will probably lead to ANOTHER overwhelming case against me. Again, my only argument is I'm not sheepish with my votes, AND I didn't want day to end. I also wanted something from BC before he died to point us in the direction of whom is town/mafia. I didn't vote for citizen, but those who didn't instavote for BC today, but DID vote for citizen should most definitely be scrutinized thoroughly. Just so you know, Pandain totally refused to insta-gib BC (and I think he did the same for SouthRawrea) on the grounds of some totally random reason. He also voted citi.zen even after I PM'd him threatening to reveal his DT claim if he did. On July 28 2010 15:33 Pandain wrote: I disagree with this. Citizen's plan did have some holes and we were lucky he turned out to be innocent AND the dt/mad hatter were not GF's. And some of us wanted to see their reactions, so not insta voting i would actually consider a plus. lol excuses Gogogo. | ||
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On July 29 2010 06:08 Protactinium wrote: By this, you are assuming that there was indeed a leak. I highly doubt many (or even any) of you have read the PMs I posted between Subversion and myself and Pandain and myself, but I knew that Subversion was Detective from Day/Night 1 and worked to protect him from the second day lynch. Please go back and check that. As I already said, I wanted Subversion to check me to verify me in his circle, but he was undecided between Amber[LighT] and BloodyC0bbler, and ended up checking Amber[LighT], which in retrospect seems like the good move since BloodyC0bbler turned out to be the Veteran Godfather. Once again, if you have not done so, please go read the PMs that I have posted somewhere back in the early 140s. Why would it be beneficial to me, as Mafia, to leave Subversion alive for the first three nights? If Pandain is not the leak (and he's been checked as Mafia now?) then there is no leak. The PM is most likely Pandain being mafia, duh. | ||
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XeliN the Suicide Bomber has exploded Zeks the Mad Hatter is dead Siniquity the Medic is dead. Lakrismamma the detective is dead InFuNDiBuLuM and bumatlarge, the harmless townies are found dead Let us extract what happened. I know for a fact that the DT was not checking anyone on this list. Hence, Lakrismamma must have been targeted by Mafia. Does this mean Mafia knew Lakrismamma was DT through a leak? I doubt it, I'm guessing they just had an awesome stroke of luck. I would think that Zeks was bombed while Siniquity protected him. Now this makes me want to bang my head against a wall. I mean COME ON, it was so obvious that Zeks would be bombed, why would you protect him? Oh well, what's done is done. I also know Zeks had a bomb on Infundibulum and I am guessing the other bomb was on bumatlarge. This is literally a worst case scenario. However, this leaves us with one missing kill. Mafia has 2 KP at the moment (correct me if I'm wrong), hence there should be 7 deaths. Where did the other one go? If the medic protected Zeks, that means a Vet must have been hit, or Mafia abstained from using all their KP which I doubt. If my assumptions are correct, can the Vet that was hit claim to me? Hell, why doesn't everyone claim to me, I think I'm a confirmed townie by now. What sucks is that I was going to get the identity of the DT once Zeks died but since that plan's gone, uh oh. | ||
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XeliN the Suicide Bomber has exploded Zeks the Mad Hatter is dead Siniquity the Medic is dead. Lakrismamma the detective is dead InFuNDiBuLuM and bumatlarge, the harmless townies are found dead Alternate theory. XeliN exploded on Zeks and he was the only one to die. His bombs killed off Infundibulum and bumatlarge. The mafia targeted Siniquity and Lakrismamma with their KP. This theory means that there's.. a 99% chance that there was a leak within the DT group. This also means scum knows the identity of both Vets, since Zeks knew them (and told me too). | ||
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1. tree.hugger 2. brownbear 3. youngminii 4. chaoser 5. divinek 6. rastaban 7. Amber[LighT] 8. pandain 9. ~OpZ~ 10. d3_crescentia 11. Misder 12. Pyrrholuxia 13. Tricode 14. protactinium Out of this list, there are 4 people that I am absolutely sure are town aligned. That leaves 10 people left. By using this double lynch today, there's a 1/5 chance that we hit mafia. It is crucial that we hit at least 1 mafia today because that will lower their KP to 1. If we don't hit any scum today, then there will be 10 people left tomorrow with 3 Mafia and no double lynches. Miss two more times and it's lights out for town. So while it's not GG if we miss today, it doesn't bode well for us at all if they're allowed to keep using their 2 KP. There's a good chance Pandain is mafia and so he's my leading suspect. I propose that we lynch chaoser since he's pretty much next on my list. I know I was wrong about Infundibulum but we don't really have anyone better to lynch (unless you can come up with one), and chaoser was one of Zeks's leading suspects too. Aaaaand with that: ##Vote Pandain ##Vote chaoser | ||
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Chaoser comes first though. | ||
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On July 29 2010 15:22 Pandain wrote: Man why not use my list? So colorful.... Bit angry right now :/. Like seriously, what is wrong with letting people defend themselves? By the time I wake up I am becoming more and more sure I will be lynched without the chance to defend myself. And youngmini, this means you do what I say and analyze. dont just vote Pandain please just look at it from our perspective. The DT checked you and you flipped red. The odds of you being mafia is through the roof. There's no one else that's as 'confirmed' as you so you are by far the best possible lynch. The DT check trumps any argument you have to say, so you're better off using your time to help the town if you really are townie. This is playing to our win condition, you are playing to save yourself even though (I'll say it once again), you are the best possible lynch. | ||
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On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote: Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so. Lol wtf trade Mafia for Detective early game? Really? | ||
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On July 29 2010 15:27 youngminii wrote: Lol wtf trade Mafia for Detective early game? Really? Okay I can't ignore this. This is possibly the dirtiest post in the history of Mafia. I can't get over how you said you would trade a Detective for a Mafia as if that was a good thing. I don't know whether or not this is attributed to you simply not understanding the role of DT or you trying to excuse your actions as Mafia. Either way, this post warrants a FoS. | ||
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On July 29 2010 15:40 Protactinium wrote: Are you joking? You find Mafia, you get them lynched. Mafia thrive on information, and Detectives do not live forever. The chance of finding Mafia early on is slim; yes, the chance of Detectives getting hit is also a small number on top of a large number, but that's assuming you have good Detectives who can dodge snipings. When I learned to play Mafia, I was always drilled with the lesson that a Detective for a Mafia is good, and as I already said this setup is conducive to trading blues for reds. You already have the numbers. If somebody false claims Detective, like has been done this game, you can more easily counter-claim if there's one Detective, not two. In a normal setup Mafia would have 3 KP with 6 Mafia members. Factor that into your calculations when you think about how efficient this Mafia has been at sniping blue numbers, and even moreso when you factor in the fact that your Detective has fears he may have checked the Godfather Night 1. You swap a Mafia member for a Detective night 2 in this setup. You get a confirmed townie, a Mafia member outed, and any possible "defense" happens on there. Besides, I was working to save the Detective from getting lynched. Let's not forget what happened Day 2 when Subversion's head was on the chopping block. Think about it from the Mafia's perspective as well: that early in the game, one town member out of 24 is not worth trading for 1/6th of their team. Town circles form, but town circles are easily broken into. There's no choice for me but to bang my head on my desk. | ||
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On July 29 2010 16:02 rastaban wrote: Your right, I had forgotten he was listed as well. He seems to have been pretty quiet as well. Oh yeah I've been meaning to ask this for a while now. Why did you claim you had a DT ages back? That was obviously a lie with no good purpose. | ||
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On July 29 2010 17:08 rastaban wrote: Does anybody actually read the stuff I post?? Here they are I put them up earlier when Pandain requested them here is the Link Also I wanted to respond to the last part of this. I didn't lie, I merely passed on the information I believed to be correct. This game we have seen BloodyC0bbler, Zeks, Citi.zen, Pandain, SouthRawea, and Subversion all lie and it has caused us no end of trouble. In fact you also came forward without a DT because you were lied to as well. This is why you lynch all liars. You know what's funny, I don't believe BC false claimed to you. I believe you're scum and you pulled that out of your ass after you saw that you were in a tight spot because your DT claim went wrong. You saw the BC and SouthRawrea were both royally fucked and you knew bussing them was the obvious way to go. So instead of simply bussing them like a normal person, you pinned BC for your fake DT claim. Notice how he doesn't respond? ##Unvote Chaoser ##Vote rastaban | ||
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Anyway yeah if the whole Sin protecting Xelin thing and getting killed is true, then I suppose all my theories go bust. | ||
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Oh well. | ||
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<3 you though. | ||
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On August 01 2010 13:47 chaoser wrote: 2. brownbear 5. chaoser 6. divinek 11. rastaban (said BC claimed DT to him) 16. ~OpZ~ 23. d3_crescentia (Got medic protected?) 24. Misder 26. Pyrrholuxia 27. Tricode (Vigi, said he hit BC) 29. protactinium Lol I was reading through the posts and I was like "huh wtf why isn't my name here" Then I realised I must've been killed. Blaeararagfaghgaghahghaghghghgrhghgrgh <- dying sound. | ||
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lololol But you were actually AWOL, chaoser wasn't. | ||
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And uhh, I'll make it eventually | ||
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Oh well, whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger. | ||
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