EPTBM and I are talking about proleague
+ Show Spoiler +
stop spoiling proleague in a mafia game.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 18 2010 16:05 Bill Murray wrote:
gg
1-1 skt!
gg
1-1 skt!
stop spoiling proleague in a mafia game.
TL Mafia XXVIII - Page 2
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On July 18 2010 16:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: ##Vote BC -_- I have never liked your writing style from any game. From my perspective it makes perfect sense BC. But I guess it would only make sense to me....Lolz Dude, your asking people to blind trust a rolecheck. Until the GF dies, you cannot do so. A DT can only safely claim on such few circumstances, or take an insane leap of faith and hope it pays off. You then ask dts to check you in essence for you to be that person they claim to. Its most likely just a stupid move on your part, but comes off as bad play. That sort of style isn't something I'd trust if I were a DT nor should the DT's who are playing. Liking or Disliking my style has nothing to do with you telling people to do something incredibly dumb. I can honestly see where your coming from with what you were saying, but wasn't a good plan. The way in to check people not so bad, claiming outright, bad. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:17 Pandain wrote: Aww  . I had unvoted you too.You see, I had originally voted you but wasn't completely sure. What Sinquity said about Hyperola I found persuasive. His first post is accusing Sinquity of being Mafia based on the sole fact his post was long. Now, what more of a baseless accusation can there be? Now I'm new here, but I found that deeply disturbing when it had been pointed out. Now, after 4 of us have voted against him, what does he do? Here he is, still trying to accuse poor Sinquity of being a mafia based on his original "evidence" of "His post was too long." I just find his actions all in all highly questionable, and at the very least want such a baseless accusing person out of the game. Thing is, he did call someone out, which explains why that person voted him, it also could explain another person voting for him. BUT 5 people total voting for someone based on day 1 activity on a weekend with little to no real discussion going on makes a bandwagon insanely bad idea. IF he flips town, those original bandwagoners are going to get owned by town for the bad play, or ignored all game for being stupid and potentially lose us said game. I appreciate where you are coming from, and well, its not bad in principle and if this had been posted day 2 or after I would fully endorse the action, but bandwagons day 1 are insanely anti town, especially when based on such a lack of information to discuss. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:35 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Pandain my statement was really not intended to support lynching Hyperbola specifically i think BC and citizen have made a salient observation of youngminii's posting behavior, and it is currently the most interesting development to me. i await his inevitable response before i cast any judgments though, since i haven't played in a game with youngminii and they have. Just read over DTA's game to get an idea where we are coming from. He pretty well single handedly won the game for town. Also for a new comer, really good play. That is generally where the train of though (from me anyway) is coming from. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:27 Pandain wrote: Hmm good point, and I see where you are coming from. Point of information though, I believe I was only the 3rd person who voted for hyperbola. In fact, I had missed the original post calling out Hyperola and only when the other guy quoted it did I see it, find it reasonable, and decide to change my vote. However, I still find his statements to be at the very least questionable, and to quote a more expirenced than I mafia member: If you could provide sufficient persuasion arguing in favor of being ultra cautious and countering his statement, I would consider changing my mind to abstaining. I don't view hyperbola's play to be stupid actually. Not in comparison to a few other players I can think of thus far this game Divinek, zeks, and opz come to mind. Re read their posts to see why. | ||
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Ugh, Foolishness dead, so not good. Along with the hit d3 apparently took, seems like we have to step it up a notch. First off, thank you med who prot’d d3, or thank you BM RNG for giving him vet. Regardless, thank god. Day one appeared to be a veteran player snipe night. This puts us in a rather bad spot if the trend stays. In regards to today, I think we should focus on a few things. One being the vote lists from yesterday. I shall quote Tree hugger for convinience On July 20 2010 03:06 tree.hugger wrote: There is are six mafia in this game. There is probably one mafia in each of these lists, but I'd also lean on citi and young being mafia candidates. And probably two in this one: Mafia vote counts are usually spread across the likely candidates, as the mafia don't know who our blue's are as much as we know who they are. So there's not a lot to be gained by them in focusing on one target, at least not yet. Therefore, there's probably some mafia who voted early, (I'd lean towards those being more experienced players, but possibly not.) some mafia who voted late, and some mafia who changed their votes. I tend to suspect people who voted against each other, as personal conflict give the mafia a great excuse to make a silly vote that won't ever be held to them. I think we've seen faux conflict be manufactured that way as well. We'll see what more the hits tonight give us, but keep this day 1 voting template in mind. Bolding the names of people who are dead/took a hit. Based on just who was hit/died, burden would be on myself, DTA and to a degree SiNiquity. Looks bad for the three of us, but we can move past that for the time being. Keep in mind (much like tree hugger has mentioned) that there are 6 red, who have the ability day 1 to potentially fan the fire of a potential bandwagon, create one then disappear from it, or discretely slide into one. Means going back over posts to see who said/did what to encourage the bandwagoning. Of the major vote lists Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)[/quote] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle) abstain (LaXerCannon, tricode, SouthRawrea, Chaoser, protactinium, zeks) Stand out the most to me. The most amount of users are located on those three lists (in terms of voting for a single person/abstaining). Now, abstainers to a degree at this point could have placeholder votes or the like so that could be that. I would keep an eye on the names there and see if any overlap later on, or similarly vague judgement calls on why they voted however way they did. Now, lets look at the other two, the primary ones that got “bandwagoned” Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)[/quote] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle) Of hyperbola’s end voters, divinek, pandain, and siniquity kept their votes on as they dropped them on him. BB, Bumatlarge and subversion were all late to the party. Misder and Zeks both jumped off that wagon. Youngminii’s bandwagon comes much later. And was only made closeish of a vote because of misder and zeks jumping off hyperbola. To me, this suggests that zeks + misder are most likely town. Both realized how quickly the bandwagon was forming on someone based on little and left trying to stop a potential town death. The vote train on Youngminii makes very little sense to me for day 1 as (based on last games performance) the expectation of him is quite high and consistent slip ups or mistakes will get noticed and get him killed. This makes me think that this was fueled by mafia, or people not paying attention to the thread. I would keep an eye on the 5 names on this vote list. TLDR version of that all is, people should keep an eye primarily on youngminii’s list as it seems more artificially created. Mafia benefits more from his death if he flips town than if hyperbola would. Zeks and Misder I am inclined to think are town based on their actions (although late), and people overall should watch the names on the three lists I mentioned (hyperbola, youngminii, and abstain list) to watch for common patterns among voters. Next step. We need to figure out a way to use last nights miss shoot to our advantage. DT’s over the course of the next 2-4 days should try to narrow down potential reds by looking over the thread and figuring out who would best benefit from the this on foolishness/d3. If you opt for another way to check, use the vote lists provided above as they will give you a good idea of who to track/follow on your checks. Build a spreadsheet, narrow down your checked/unchecked names and fill in roles when people die. Play the stats game. However, do not rush in to check d3. If you want to do this, RNG a day within the next 1-4 nights and check then. Anything else encourages the suicide bomber to rush in and off multiple blues. Play it smart. Medics, I have very little experience in your position so I have little idea of how to properly utilize your role. My only advise is this. Mafia are unable to hit their own people. If you did successfully block a hit, whoever you prot’d is confirmed town. Utilize this. Note: if there is an extra hit in a night, or a vig claims, don’t consider person cleared till who fired what shot is confirmed as vig shots could hit a mafia member (and medic blocks it). All mafia hits blocked however confirm town aligned players. Vet’s. You have two real options. Make yourself a target for hits, or sit back and hope to soak a hit. Mass claiming in this format, or if nothing else, this early does not benefit the town. Until the suicide bomber is dead, town cannot safely roleclaim as the risk of multiple blues dying is too high (dts confirming said head of circle, med proting, or the like). Town has a huge advantage in this style with meds and dt’s able to confirm people. Factor in that once vets can be proved later on in the game, they are excellent voices for dts, meds, or the like. For now, we have to go over the vote lists, find out someone who seems to have a) fueled the bandwagons day 1 b) would benefit the most from foolishness / d3 being hit We can easily win this if we think intelligently. I will look more heavily over the vote lists / posts to get an idea of who to vote for after my shift this afternoon (get home after 7pm pst) and will start looking then. | ||
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On July 21 2010 00:32 zeks wrote: you're right i guess we don't know for sure. but I think its highly unlikely for mafia to bank on the fact that both medics dont know what the other one did to claim a hit just on the fact that its so risky. not saying d3 is clear 100% but i just think scum would be kinda dumb to pull something like that so early If a medic prot'd him, he is 100% confirmed. If he is a vet (rolecheck at some random point would show this) he is 99% confirmed as the chances the mafia gf would RC day 2 is extremely slim. Do not on mass roleclaim him though as until the bomber or gf dies, as either or can destroy a town circle extremely quickly. It does however give a starting point for a circle to form. | ||
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On July 20 2010 21:17 citi.zen wrote: The DTs had two checks last night. Unless they both hit red, we already have the start of a circle, maybe two. I would trust these checks before te vet claim at this point, since the dts picked them more "randomly". That said, I doubt the mafia would fake claim this early. It gives them very little for a pretty big risk: if another vet is hit/lynched, the GF is toast. It would also mean they purposely wasted a kp. So we should be in good shape. Assume the claim was genuine but don't take stupid risks, we don't need them. The big thing is we didn't lose any blues, and the mafia only killed one person. Just as a minor edit to this, it is the start of a few circles (each dt checks different people most likely, leads to two seperate circles, add in the medic's prot from last night you have a third) | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:39 BrownBear wrote: Yeah, that's how a normal setup works. What I'm saying though, is because we know the exact number of vets in this game, we can use that to our advantage and use the vets as confirmed townies, to greater effect. I believe coordination > random hit soaking, but I guess we have to agree to disagree. Vets are better late game for circle use to fake leak info they are a dt, or the like. Vets early game to use as the center of a circle is a terrible idea. Think of it this way. TOWN has to confirm those vets. This requires wasting vig/hatter hits on them, dt checking, hoping a med prots them from a hit. The issue however is to confirm said vet requires blues confirming him. This leaves an opening for a bomber to get lucky as hell and potentially in a night at worst case kill two dts, 1-2 meds, a hatter/vig. Not saying that many blues would normally stack ontop of the vet, but its reasonable to expect that 1 blue would be on said vet rather frequently making a bomber hit worth it as they lose one red to off 2-3 or 4 blues, or 2 blues, head of a town circle and still have remaining KP to snipe at anyone they know of in said circle. Far to risky early game. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:44 Protactinium wrote: Probably not today, unless we can find two clearly delineated targets. Ah, scrolling backward. With the whole Vet idea, let's not forget this: And don't forget he made the winning (or losing...) vote. Good catch, subversion not only makes a weird line Seems at the moment, mafia aren't making too many mistakes. but also the bit about the hyperbola vote. Consider he is implying the chances of one - two reds in there, and cast the deciding vote to get hyper lynched. Add in then his "praise" of the mafia, seems he's either really good at slipups or really good at appearing scummy as town. | ||
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The youngminii vote list is odd, after two defense posts and solid ones for day 1 at that, he still garnered people vote for him Infundi started the vote train with On July 18 2010 20:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I'm going out for the rest of the day and i dunno if i'll be back in time for the deadline. I'm gonna put my vote on youngminii, just in case anything happens in that direction. Otherwise i hope you guys are smart enough not to screw things up while i'm gone :p #vote youngminii It’s a “placeholder” vote. He then argues with young and refuses to vote swap. Xelin posts a reason to vote for young very quickly after, On July 18 2010 23:49 XeliN wrote: Actually scrap that, I've just gone over your posts individually Youngminii and your coming across so scummy to me. You argue everyone to abstain on the first day, or vote for someone that is going to be killed anyway. That directly helps mafia, and further reduces any information that we could have going into Day 2, you've also tried to directly influence what any blues in the game do on the first day and instead of addressing the points infundulum makes against you, you flip reverse it and accuse him of being Red. Remove vote Vote youngminii He is gut shotting, not a very solid way to do it day 1. On July 19 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote: ###vote youngminii if I have to trust someone I trust xelin. I'm going to follow his decisions till the end of the day at least. Sorry got to the game early so I read some posts :D This post intrigues me, a lot. HE is blind trusting someone to follow for voting, which makes the third vote of a bandwagon that formed in the last 17 hours of the day, all 3 voting with in a page of eachother. Super odd to be formed a) so late and b) with next to no real debate. On July 19 2010 02:07 Roffles wrote: OpZ just has that sort of playstyle. Comes in, makes a couple accusations, then starts some shit. At least it demonstrates he's here. Gonna unabstain now that I've read the thread. ##Unvote: Abstain ##Vote: youngminii Not voting simply lets scum get off a free shot. Don't see the real reasoning behind not voting. Shit, I'd rather RNG someone than let em off the hook for Day 1. Anyways, I'd refrain from voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Chances are they'll be modkilled within the next couple of days anyways. Why waste a lynch on someone who's gonna die later on? Odd vote choice as he has read the thread, comments little for his vote, but goes onto say how he would prefer to have the days lynch go, seems fair enough of a reason to avoid a no lynch. On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote: The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs. Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched. That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list. SO yea ##Unvote ##Vote: Youngminii Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy. Of all the votes for young, this one strikes me as the most reasonable, as it is voting based on things he has said, and things he disagrees with and is voting for it. Now, that that is done, lets go see what day 2 looks like for these 5. On July 20 2010 22:15 Amber[LighT] wrote: Why is it that all of a sudden d3 claims he was protected and BrownBear becomes the official 'active' townie with all of this great insight. Up until about 12 hours ago (last time I checked the thread) he was nowhere to be found, and now that 1 person gave him something to run with, he's invaded about 2/3's of the last 2 pages with nonsense analysis about d3. What's even worse is that he wants our "other" veteran to roleclaim. ATTN OTHER VETERAN: DO NOT ROLECLAIM!!!! The goal of the veteran, as stated numerous times, is to be the meatshield. His vote is only worth 1, regardless of how long he is left in the game. His job is to soak damage up from night kills. By outing our veterans, we are pretty much giving the mafia enough information to say "don't hit these players." I'm against that plan completely, and I'm against BrownBear. Hopefully the DT's are working their magic from last night and getting in contact with the players they checked. The DT role is pretty black/white and very strong in this game, so we need to keep those guys alive. The DT's should form their own circles and use the players they checked as voice-boxes. The players who have been checked should, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, reveal to any other player who the DT is unless they are verified. The only way the DT circles should combine is if AND ONLY IF by chance a DT checks another DT. Please be smart about this guys. I'm sticking with the opinion of the previous night to lynch the most useless player: ##Vote: BrownBear I'll consider changing my vote if some of the more 'influential players' have a better suggestion. This vote is a completely different style, levels out with what he said the day before of not having time, here he obviously did as it’s a moderately informed vote. HOWEVER he later does this On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote: Unvote BrownBear ##Vote: Subversion Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Here shows that rather than being certain of his choices, he going bandwagon to bandwagon. Subversion has had far to many people jump on him for being a bad player when the kid is new. And now another player, who should know better based on experience, is jumping at him. Seriously fishy imo. Very little activity overall and hoping onto bandwagons is all hes really doing. On July 21 2010 20:25 XeliN wrote: I'm personally not convinced about Brownbear whatsoever, his suggestions and arguments may be poor but he has not acted in a way I would expect a mafia too, his reaction to peoples accusations is far more fitting with how townies respond (although this is WiFOM, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Brown would not attempt to defend himself in a manner he hoped to portray as a green reaction if he were mafia) Out of the two candidates my inclination is for either Darth or Chaoser, the arguments against Subversion have seemed quite astute but quite frankly the actions of Darth and Chaoser so far concern me more, Darth from my past experience is extremely logical, helpful and influential. He has been none of these things this game and in the past I have only seen him in a town role. This shift in character//style would be the main reason I suspect Darth. Chaoser has been exceptionally inconsistent so far, Pandain has outlined most of my reasoning quite well on page 39, but to surmise his arguing against "no-lynching" in order to criticise a player then abstaining, using the argument "these two players are more suspicious//more evidence against them than me". This line of argument is almost laughable and reminds me of the playground type reaction "Hey don't pick on me... look at that kid... he can't even play football and he's ugly as hell". ##Vote DarthThienAn Out of Chaoser and Darth I would consider the latter more dangerous in a mafia role so I'll place it there. Going into description of who he thinks should be lynched based off two major candiates. Although DTA is a more recent bandwagon (well revival of one) On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote: I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said ##Vote:Subversion This vote worries me. He starts by saying “I was going to vote for x” then immediately swaps his opinion to someone who has made a few minor slip ups (possible newb?) but votes out of fear of him saying something he shouldn’t. Odd reason to kill someone now, sounds like a pm land reason, although I have no way to prove that. To my knowledge, Infundi has just voted for double lynch today, and Roffles still hasn’t voted. Now looking at this, I see a few really oddly done votes, and it continues today. Amber seems to vote for whichever wagon at the time is attracting the most people, hopping onto Youngminii near its beginning, then proceeding to jump on BB when it was in its prime, now hes hopped over to subversion. This is insanely odd to me. Next we have jayme, doing very similar things, hopping onto popular wagon without really contributing much to the game other than hopping onto the wagon with a simple reason of why he joined it. His reason day 1 was sound, his reason right now not so much. I would also say as a minor link that potentially means nothing at this point, but both amber and jayme have voted together twice now (provided this vote stays final). NOW, lets talk about the last days playing. WHAT THE HELL GUYS. I am gone for a day, and seriously return to you all attacking well everyone Youngminii vs chaoser pandain vs chaoser Chaoser vs young/pandain everyone and their puppy vs subversion Shit jumping randomly out to attack dta people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity. Lakrismamma attempting to start a fight with roffles based on inactivity (pot calling the kettle black?) The amount of just literally piles of crap to weed through is agonizingly annoying to read. ALL of responsible for this all should take a step bad and really see what you are doing. Because of all this nonsense there is really next to no real candidate for a lynch, instead its a bunch of minor bandwagons people can fan/hide in. If the group of you mainly responsible for this is town, shame on you guys, you should know better. Start reading what people are saying, not just arguing a gut shot. As its too damn late to try and coordinate on who to vote on, I AM choosing amber for having two days worth of sketchy voting habits + bandwagon hopping. ##vote amber[light] | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:04 BrownBear wrote: Sigh. What happens in the case that GF decided not to appear as vet? Not a problem. Also, if you actually happened to read carefully, you would notice that i said SB doesn't necessarily break the plan - it just throws a wrench in it. It just requires more careful planning + execution. Your plan requires way to much luck. Until you confirm what the GF decided to appear as, its not safe. If someone is inactive and gf appeared as vet, its not safe, if suicide bomber hits said vet as town moves to confirm the, ton of blues die. It is something that is more helpful later on, this early and especially with all the random finger pointing and general what the hellness of this days voting, you can see why your plan can't work. A good idea can only work in an ideal situation, but if its an ideal situation and no one works together then it still doesn't work. There is no town unity at the moment, so any idea like you proposed won't work even if it was the perfect situation for it. If the bomber/gf dies, your idea is plausible to use. Till then its not. | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:03 Pandain wrote: Right now I believe the two viable decisions are either Chaoser or Darth. They are the two most likely canidates for actually being mafia. BB and Subversion are just new and people are jumping on them for really miniscule posts. The only one thing that could lead to one of them being mafia is Subversions deciding vote in favor of Hyperbola, however that is still unlikely because it is just as likely that 1)The Mafia didn't know of BM's miscount 2)He just voted at an unlucky time. So all those who are picking either BB or Subversion (especially BB) I urge you to change your vote and vote for either Darth of Chaoser. I would suggest Chaoser, just because I find him more likely to be mafia than DTA. To me, it still seems that Chaoser is just trying to get people lynched and DTA could be plannign something. Of course we should keep an eye on DTA, but let's not just lynch him and ruin anything he might be doing. I would urge you to vote Chaoser, but at the very least I humbly request all those not voting either DTA/Chaoser to unvote and pick one of them. Hi Pandain, remember this post, oh a page ago, and now you've flipped to On July 22 2010 06:28 Pandain wrote: Actually, for a long time I have been wondering whether Chaoser is innocent or not. For most of the time I've decided to keep my vote just because if I unvoted, I felt like everyone else would too(Since I have both led and started the accusatoin.) Therefore, I'm actually really suspecting Subversion. I mean, even if it was a mistake the vote for Hyperbola is suspect. Especially since after a few PM's my arguments for chaoser have diminished and the arguments for Subversion have grown. With that. ##Unvote ##Vote Subversion. Just saying, little sketchy of a switch based on your post above. IF anything you would have swapped to dta. Just saying. | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:34 Pandain wrote: Finally, I have been exchanging PM's from mroe expierenced players and they have laid out their arguments fantastically. I am inclined to believe them. You, of all people, should know how hard Mafia is, and I can't just stick to one person because I voted them first. If people offer sufficient evidence, I change my mind. I always have. Oh dude, I know how hard the game can be. The issue isn't that you changed your vote, it was based on what you said a page previously that your vote went to someone who wasn't on your list of two. In essence it appears as though you are hopping off a bandwagon now that its reached its height. Sometimes you just need to explain yourself fully when you do such a jump to avoid it being called out. | ||
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I hope you all learned your lesson. Keep in mind tommorrow, and tonight as everyone realizes how dumb today was, they will go back and re read all the people pushing for these stupid bandwagons. I would center look around players like youngminii, pandain, and pyrr. Those three pushed for the main people who ended up on the lynching block the most. Of those three, youngminii is the one who has the most explaining to do. On July 21 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote: FoS tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darththienan, chaoser He then managed to clutter up god knows how much of the thread going after chaoser, then once day lynch ends, he gets into another argument with another player. HE needs to learn to simmer down and think things through logically and post it in a not confrontational manner all the time, or take a time out. Pandain similar reasons, alot of finger pointing, lots of arguing leading to derailing the thread into the spiral of what the day ran into. Pyrr for pushing for DTA's lynch, which then offed a townie. | ||
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On July 22 2010 14:21 Divinek wrote: you know i feel bad for the people like bc that are gonna have to sift through all this shit tomorrow. I hope bc starts posting more i dont like how quiet he is being It honestly feels like pushing a damn rock up a mountain when i come back and see a thread like this after work, its insanely long and filled with so much just ugh. | ||
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On July 22 2010 16:27 Subversion wrote: when is night?? right now | ||
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I took a hit last night. | ||
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