TL Mafia XX

On March 10 2010 02:38 flamewheel91 wrote:


Oh god, please no.

On March 10 2010 04:55 L wrote:
Sign me up.

Killing Bill Murray day 1 inc.

On March 10 2010 05:51 Vivi57 wrote:
I'm in

maybe i'll try a mass pm style this game...

On March 10 2010 11:01 Ace wrote:
It doesn't matter that it can't happen. The fact that if it does happen then the game is instantly over. How does that show good balance? The reason we don't have many elected DTs is simply because of the fact that the people who can get elected usually don't roll DT. "Making sure they dont get elected" isn't going to do much once the guy roleclaims in office.

In fact I've just seen another possible addendum to make the town win even faster. Flamewheel please find a replacement for me. I think if I played this game and rolled Mafia I'd rage.

On March 10 2010 13:25 Bill Murray wrote:
announcing your day 1 lynch victim prior to the game starting can be so detrimental if you both end up being red.

when you don't run, or don't lynch them, you're suspicious.
you're also disabling your mafia buddy from being able to vote for you... "I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO LYNCH YOU, WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM"

It's just a dumb concept, and should be frowned upon.

On March 10 2010 13:27 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Shush and get lynched!

On March 10 2010 13:40 johnnyspazz wrote:
o.O its almost like citi.zen is high on drugs or something
also edited post spotted

On March 10 2010 13:41 ~OpZ~ wrote:
....7 Mafia....huh....vs 18 blue/townies....Riiiiight

On March 10 2010 11:01 Ace wrote:
It doesn't matter that it can't happen. The fact that if it does happen then the game is instantly over. How does that show good balance? The reason we don't have many elected DTs is simply because of the fact that the people who can get elected usually don't roll DT. "Making sure they dont get elected" isn't going to do much once the guy roleclaims in office.

In fact I've just seen another possible addendum to make the town win even faster. Flamewheel please find a replacement for me. I think if I played this game and rolled Mafia I'd rage.

On March 11 2010 01:21 nemY wrote:


Obvious vet role imo

On March 11 2010 00:07 citi.zen wrote:
Elections will actually matter quite a bit this time around. Messy-messy... the reds must stop a DT(s) from getting in office. Blah... blah...blah. Lynching the busdriver may be the best strategy fr the town. 1337 indeed.

On March 11 2010 01:46 Bill Murray wrote:
i was sort of hoping i would be red

On March 11 2010 02:00 XeliN wrote:
First thing I think we need to organise it to set up a rule that punishes inactivity, I would suggest people who are obviously not contributing or posting should be prime suspects for us to lynch.

In a game without clues the only thing we have to go on is peoples posts so it's important.

As the first kill is a crapshoot mostly I'm currently going to be voting for Ace to be lynched, he annoyed the **** out of me last game.

On March 11 2010 02:49 Bill Murray wrote:

25 people, 5 mafia, 5 town blue roles, 1 blue role we have to ignore for sake of unknown alliance, and probably a couple millers. I'm assuming 2 Detective, 2 Medics, 1 vig, 1 mad hatter, 1 vet, 2 millers.

Does that seem about right?

On March 11 2010 04:32 Versatile wrote:
yes, but we don't know if we have two DTs, and since we don't know, how do you verify the 2nd DT?

ie) GF claims DT.
gets elected mayor.
DT confirms him as "innocent".

and then mafia member steps up as "2nd DT". only person who can confirm him is the other DT, and by then it's day 2 and the mafia could have hit him, or maybe he decides to use his rolecheck on someone else. so you've got 2 mafia parading around as innocents, and one of them has 3 votes.

i'm just saying, there are too many holes, and it's too risky to elect someone based on just their roleclaim.

and personally, i just wouldn't trust a roleclaim that early, especially from a blue.

if it were me, i'd try to get elected, and if i did, THEN i'd come out and say, "AHA! gotchu hoes. i'm a DT/medic/etc".

On March 11 2010 04:52 JeeJee wrote:


you know chezinu may post nonsense but at least it's readable nonsense xD

On March 11 2010 04:53 XeliN wrote:
Yeah citi.zen please don't make a habit of posting like this.

On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.

I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.

With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.

I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.

The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.

Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...

Anyone who flips red dies.

For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.

Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.

Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.

Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG.

Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?

On March 11 2010 05:51 Versatile wrote:
the only reason that post isn't completely useless is because of the corleone quote.

On March 11 2010 06:34 Zona wrote:
Wait - both elected roles aren't immune to rolechecks?
I skipped over that part - this is pretty major change. It's a huge disincentive for mafia to run for the role...unless there are no detectives at all in this game and the whole detective thing is just a red herring.

On March 11 2010 01:17 Zona wrote:
Looks like the game's started - we have to scrutinize the people who run for elections very closely.

Yes, some strong players in all likelyhood will be mafia. But it is still good to have strong elected officials. Elected officials are under a lot of scrutiny. They also usually take on a very active role in town affairs. The more they're on the spotlight, the easier it is to catch them if they are mafia.

On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:


Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance?

On March 11 2010 05:32 citi.zen wrote:

Beware, this ain't fool proof. Don't say I didn't tell you. Watch for "green" politicians:

On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:

Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green?

If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point).

The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted.

If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green.

On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.

So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.

In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.

After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there.

On March 11 2010 12:57 Fulgrim wrote:


I'm so proud of typing that without a translator, pure skill alone.

On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.

Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.

That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia.

On March 12 2010 01:11 JeeJee wrote:


wrong wrong wrong
why are you voting because they claimed they are not green? That is stupid. Anyone can do that, nobody can be verified. You should vote on those that seem the least scummy/most likely to be innocent. And yes they'll likely end up blue given the format but them claiming so should not be affecting your decision
Look at the plans they've proposed, look at their participation in the thread and how they respond to other's questions.
I wouldn't be voting for L if I were you

On March 12 2010 01:52 JeeJee wrote:


what's the point?
You still haven't answered why you are choosing to vote for the claimers solely because they're, well, claiming.

what's the point?

You still haven't answered why you are choosing to vote for the claimers solely because they're, well, claiming

Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim.

On March 12 2010 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


No, but it gives alot of information for me to garner from them based off it. For instance, i can instantly out those two as fishy. Anyone can re examine their posts for tells, and voila information. Its not a fool proof test, but it gets something over nothing.

On March 12 2010 04:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Yes

On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:

I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore.

4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game.

On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate.

On March 13 2010 06:45 Incognito wrote:


Unless the DT is telling other people about it too, you'd think a DT for GF trade is good, no?

On March 13 2010 12:12 JeeJee wrote:


yeah i tried my best to start the swing via PMs because i trust incog, i don't trust you, and if you were mafia, changing votes ahead of time with 3 viable candidates pretty much guarantees that they get who they want in via gradual change themselves (or last-minute wagon if they want to look fishy). at this point, i'm sure they didn't get who they wanted in.

but hey if you think i'm mafia and dumb enough to pm random people and ask to change the vote instead of working with my mafia buddies, then what can i say. all mindgamez now

On March 13 2010 12:41 flamewheel91 wrote:


T_T Sorry. I haven't heard anything from BC so we can't go to night until then...

On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:


I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares!

On March 14 2010 09:23 Foolishness wrote:


Yeah I called him out on it early in the night (it's in the archives if you care to look). Considering how active he's been the "I'm a confused townie" defense is not very convincing at all.

On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:

My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO!

On March 14 2010 11:08 L wrote:
And nothing of value was lost.

On March 14 2010 09:04 L wrote:

1) Nah, i said JeeJee should also be a target. Woulda preferred BM, but oh well.

2) If your team hits me, you're probably going to lose the game for your team. So tell them to hit someone else. I probably have a medic on me anyways.

On March 14 2010 09:21 L wrote:

Oh, you noticed citi.zen's voting pattern too. Good show. That would be the reason for my suspicion of him, as exemplified in the last two pages.

On March 12 2010 04:37 citi.zen wrote:
Change my vote to BloodyC0bbler pretty please. With a cherry on top.

On March 12 2010 08:45 citi.zen wrote:
I change my vote to L (again). I want both of them in office, and BC seems to have plenty of votes at the moment.

On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:

My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO!

On March 14 2010 13:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Not believing people's claim is all find and good. Its normal to not believe till someone proves it. However, when people literally at the very last few minutes of a vote attempt to swing it. It appears scummy. If a green is doing it, its still a bad move.

L is right, JeeJee's stunt was terrible. It doesn't matter that L would have or wouldn't have been in office from it. By causing a vote swing that late shows terrible play. It just can't be tolerated, ever.

On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.

Sounds like everyone wins.

On March 14 2010 15:16 L wrote:
Read the thread.

Also: Why would you give it weight? Because unlike in the last game, where I all but claimed Gambino in the thread when Gambino were down, I'm town. If I'm not, there aren't ulterior concerns like keeping the mafia families equal which would motivate us to not kill me.

So, put in another way, what's stopping town from accepting my offer on day 3? Pretty much nothing.

On March 14 2010 16:19 Incognito wrote:
BloodyC0bbler:
Vivi57
tree.hugger
Incognito
Zona
Fulgrim
Iaaan
johnnyspazz
CynanMachae

Did anyone else notice this?

On March 15 2010 01:07 Bill Murray wrote:
It's possible the mafia felt L would be medic protected.

On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.

Sounds like everyone wins.

Bus Driver
Twice per game, you get to switch the actions on two players. For example, if the Bus Driver switches A and B, where A and B are players, and A is killed and B is role checked, A will be role checked and B will be killed instead. A Bus Drivers' alignment is ambiguous. That means they can be town-aligned, mafia-aligned, neither, or both.

I can understand you making it repeatedly until now because you're a rather rage filled player (as evidenced by your reaction when we didn't make you GF when we were last mafia together: you stopped talking to our team and basically got yourself killed), but please don't dig yourself any deeper by using the same mistake repeatedly.

On March 15 2010 04:29 L wrote:


Still angry because we didn't make you GF I see.

The majority of people can read just fine, hence why the town now has a group of confirmed members that will be growing as time goes by. By contrast, Its been a very select group of people intentionally misreading things, and interestingly enough none of them are present in the group of confirmed or confirm-able blues. Some of them might be townspeople who are being egged on in pms by mafia goons, but some of them are undoubtedly scum.

Its one thing to criticize me. Its another to base your criticism on second hand regurgitations of what I've said.

Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo.

On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.

Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious.

On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:


who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo.

and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser.

i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight.

On March 16 2010 09:04 L wrote:

I'd kinda like to kill a mafia member, so I care if he's red. You should probably care too if you want to think about who's mafia and who isn't.

On March 10 2010 13:44 L wrote:
Dear Bill,

If we were both mafia, I'd still want you dead because you're terrible and would probably ruin our plans, be afk during important votes, do stupid shit in PMs, forget to post in thread because you're on IRC pretending you have a big penis, etc.

Yours cordially,

- L

P.S. If you're not mafia, I'm happy regardless. If I'm town, I'm happy we have one less retard shitting up the thread. If I'm mafia; Lol ur dead choo choo pain train.

On March 16 2010 09:55 L wrote:

So you're saying that I'm covering up nonsense by trying to kill someone who clearly fucked our day 1 votes up?

Ok.

That's the end of me listening to you, goon.

On March 16 2010 10:11 L wrote:

I don't care what his colour proves about mine. I never said I'd be confirmed if he flipped, or mafia if he didn't.

So why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

Ah, lol, there I go again, talking to the goon. My bad. I hope your team made you GF this game because that would make my job easier.

On March 16 2010 10:20 L wrote:

This wasn't casual.

You realize I called you a goon the last few times, right? Ie, vanilla mafia?

Good lord you're bad.

On March 16 2010 10:21 Incognito wrote:
f5 f5 f5 f5 Ooh I guess I'm win? Lol.

On March 16 2010 10:30 Bill Murray wrote:
That being said, he would be a very good person to protect if you're a medic..

On March 16 2010 14:58 nemY wrote:


I can't believe anyone takes you seriously

On March 16 2010 13:03 L wrote:
Bill Murray is 100% mafia after today.

Lets look at that brief period of pre lynch spam:

Bill murray spams prior to the lynch:


Why would someone taunt like that? Well, its pretty easy to figure out. Bill is trying to distance himself from Malongo. But its not just that, lets look here:

Citizen posts something decent. GJ.

BM replies:



Prior to Malongo even dying, BM is trying to play up his 'i wanted to kill him' status.

Why?

Lets look at the votelist:

Here's the vote slightly before the end:


Not so terrible, but abenson's gonna die over malongo. If anyone's going to die, Mafia would MUUUUUUUUCH rather abenson than no one.

Bill, shortly thereafter abandons the Malongo train. Hopping onto me. nemY follows suit. Bill then decides to fuck around and throw a vote on nemY. That shit don't make sense.

Cynan and Sidesprang vote Malongo and Iaaan votes against sidesprang. Ok. So Cynan and sidesprang are probably legit.

At this point, votes are tied with Abenson going to be killed.

Zona throws a vote on Abenson, pushing him to 9.



Zona has just pushed abenson over the top. Is he mafia or just wanted another lynch? I dunno.

But then shit goes crazy:

Spazz, who's on Abenson, switches to Malongo, putting it to 9-8 in Malongo lynch territory. Spazz looks legit here. This is a bad outcome for mafia because they know Malongo's afk and they're trying to net a free kill.

But then bill switches back to Abenson (9-9) and johnny throws the final vote off the malongo train onto bill on bill's insistence (9-8 Abenson). Once again, these last shifts happen LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES before the deadline.

Basically, what do we have here? Its bill murray fucking with our votes again to get an innocent killed. But not only does he fuck with votes, he asks for roleclaims and tries to bolster his credibility before malongo even dies? Are you serious?

How could he know malongo would flip red? Why would he, even before the flip, start building this 'i'm green' campaign?

On March 17 2010 01:07 Incognito wrote:


Don't worry this will be sorted out by tonight.

On March 17 2010 03:17 Bill Murray wrote:
yea, sorry for the spam, and sorry for the tone, but i don't feel like dying and the town losing another player.

On March 17 2010 03:49 Zona wrote:
I must state that I agree a lot with Versatile on BC's performance (yet disagree that BC needs to be lynched quickly). Being elected is a privilege and responsibility, not entitlement and right, and you're not living up to the responsibility of being mayor - by being more active, acknowledging and responding to the town, and accusing and driving discussion. Actually, in future games, because of your lack of performance in this game, I will probably not vote for you in elections.

I want the town to think very much about BC/L working together. So much so that L is elaborating on BC's statements, and BC does nothing to refute L's elaborations. If they can prove themselves as town, we're in amazing shape. I am curious how they came to trust each other though. A DT/mayor (if that's what BC actually is) definitely needs to be very sure before trusting someone, so I assume BC would have done his due diligence before trusting L. However, if BC went according to his plan, he would have checked the other elected official, incognito, first. I very very much want and hope that BC/L are both town and working together. However, another reason why they might be working together is if they're both mafia. Now there's little sign that both are mafia right now, but if we accept that they're both not mafia, I want to know how they came to trust each other. You may say I'm fishing for information, but I'm looking for explanations of your public actions. You two are working together, and we as a town should be wondering if there's any valid reason WHY. Because if there is no strong reason why they should trust each other, there's only one other explanation why they do so.

It should be BC's number one priority to get the trust of the town right now. Prove to us that you're a legit DT/mayor. Like Versatile has said, once BC has proved himself, he can become the center of a much larger town circle, everyone can role claim to him, and we can wrap up this game. If BC cannot prove himself to be DT, then the town needs to remember how powerful a mafia member can be with three votes and an excuse for not getting nightkilled.

From: BloodyC0bbler [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Confused
Date: 3/17/10 03:08
Once this night phase is done, more should become clear. Hell more can be said then truth be told.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
So what is your assessment of L's statement in the end? More nonsense? Lies? Truth?

I really need some answers by tonight from you/him/incognito. I see few logical scenarios thus far, but am willing to patiently wait for more clarification before jumping the conclusions.


-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
if there is a second dt check, I am unaware of it. I'm currently just aware of multiple driver claims. I believed he had misread that post in that I thought he was summarizing my vague text.
I will say it is highly unlikely we have a second dt. I can also say as of the end of the night phase, I will be either cleared or killed based on my check.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message:



Incorrect? Misinterpreted? I can't square this post.


-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
It is also not true (unless there is a second dt that I am unaware of). He was "summing up" one of my posts, but it was a different second driver I had to clear, not a second dt

-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I didn't even think a lot about the type of blue you found. L specifically stated two DTs checked the same player and were bussed - that bothered me.


-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
You also misinterpreted which blue role we found two of. Was not a second dt, but a second driver.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message:



Lots of confusing statements here.

We've only had one night to run checks, yet you have apparently cleared blues plural, and also got in contact with the bus driver. The same driver who, according to L, deflected the checks of you + another DT on night one. I assume, based on your past statements, you checked the other official, Incognito, but the bus driver deflected it. Why would a town allied driver do that?

Somewhere deep down I want both you and L to be DTs and working together. We'd be in fantastic shape if that were the case. However, right now things just don't add up between your stories and his bus-driver comment.

On March 17 2010 10:17 madnessman wrote:
Zona was a really good poster. Sad to see him go

Since both bodyguards were bumped off, can we safely assume that at least one of the mayor/pardoner people are legit?

On March 17 2010 11:23 L wrote:
First order of business: Vote Bill Murray today. There's no reason not to.

Second, those 2 DT checks? They were bus driven off sidespring onto me. Both DTs got my role back as Mad Hatter, which is what I am. One DT i know about via incog. He doesn't trust me and didn't want to claim despite the fact that I'm a fucking hatter and therefore act as the perfect mouth for him. The second PM'd me directly early in day 1 and we set up the bus driver shunt on purpose to have me rolechecked on day 1 as per the plan I set out.

Third, I need DTs to PM me the results of their rolechecks. Or, DT #2, if you don't believe me, PM it to the guy you normally talk to, and then guy you normally talk to PM me.

Fourth, Iaaan has been shitting around in PMs and claiming that he's the mafia bus driver. I've heard this from two people. He just told me he's townie, so I'd like him to fucking explain himself.

Fifth. No medic protection on the BGs? Musta been on me. If you trust me, give me a PM. If you don't, don't. The protections for tomorrow should be pretty obvious anyways. I just want to make sure you don't protect the bus drivin' target (which we're probably going to use tonight).

Here's the thing; That "I'll trade my life for this lynch on Bill Murray" thing? That was specifically because I'd blow up another 2 people that i think are mafia, and thus I think town will not waste the lynch even if they use it on me.

Recap: Lols.

On March 17 2010 11:28 johnnyspazz wrote:
he must have reading comprehension issues because this was the other conversation i forgot to include

On March 17 2010 12:04 L wrote:


Its irrelevant who the DTs are to you. Sorry, but that's the truth. A number of people have confirmed themselves by various methods, but I'm not about to openly TELL mafia who they should be hitting and those that aren't worth the time. I can, however, tell you that there are a few traps set up with regards to a few claims.

To the rest of the town; Please stop fucking asking. You don't want this information public.

The people that are confirmed are going to stay underwraps because getting picked off at an equal rate to the speed that DTs can check them is pretty shit.

On March 17 2010 12:19 Incognito wrote:


Thank you for the nonsense garbage reply that ignores half of my statements. Again, "the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red". I think everyone would agree that I'm not taking your posts out of context here. Only is a pretty strong word. And even if I look at the post you're replying to, Abenson doesn't mention unprotected DTs specifically.

Oops and you decide not to respond to my comments on your second and third pms. Trying to cover that up?

"NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died." This is true. But why are you trying to deny the fact that BC and I started the move against Malongo? Sure, it wasn't the most solid analysis, but it still counts for something. Regardless of what the outcome was, its the actions and the motives that are important here. Yes, you are downplaying Malongo's lynch, perhaps because as mafia, you fear that BC and I will become too trusted by the town. There's no logical reason why BC and I would start a train against our own mafia teammate when we didn't have to. Everyone seemed perfectly happy bandwagoning Abenson. Mafia didn't need to break the status quo. And now you're saying they did.

I now have proof that BC and I are either BOTH mafia or both town, which I'll bring up later. I'm taking the heat for BC because you are doing something incredibly narrow minded, short sighted, and misguided. As for you, I'd appreciate if you didn't spam the thread with all that vulgar and useless language.



I don't play on mafiascum.



No this is a quote from me.



This has been stated several times. Inactive + ran for mayor then disappeared. He's also known for posting a lot more. And Abenson was a worse lynch target because nobody defended him and he was acting like he was every game.



Because I haven't. More to come.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 53. An interesting page that has a handful of people spamming "that sucks" posts all over. Yes it does suck. But Versatile, I thought you wanted us to die anyway?

On to business. And roleclaims. And clearing BC of guilt.

First off, I am the Bus Driver. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the reason why we all had figured out blues was because we were all blue. Durr. And the reason why I didn't claim driver after my election was so that the mafia/mafia driver wouldnt mess up our checks.

So, on to confirmations. Night 1, BC checks sidesprang. I bus sidesprang and L. L is rolechecked and comes up as a Mad Hatter, which is all fine and dandy. While this confirms L and me to BC, it did nothing to confirm BC to me. Day 2, I receive a pm from a claimed DT. Now I get hella suspicious of BC, guessing that the balance would be terribly off if we had 2 DTs and only 5 mafia. So fearing that I had wasted my first bus to a manipulative GF, I decided to end this once and for all. BC would be tested by bus. Simple, really. I ask BC to check player X. Then, I use my powers to swap player X with any of the other remaining 19 players on the field. BC now has to guess who I swapped with, in addition to the role. 1/19 is pretty slim for a fake DT. Fortunately, BC passed the test. So either we are both mafia, or we are both town. Any questions?

Will post more about lynch targets in a short while.

Second, those 2 DT checks? They were bus driven off sidespring onto me. Both DTs got my role back as Mad Hatter, which is what I am. One DT i know about via incog. He doesn't trust me and didn't want to claim despite the fact that I'm a fucking hatter and therefore act as the perfect mouth for him. The second PM'd me directly early in day 1 and we set up the bus driver shunt on purpose to have me rolechecked on day 1 as per the plan I set out.

On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?

It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs.

On March 17 2010 12:40 L wrote:
Ah incog you're dumb. Don't tell them shit.

On March 17 2010 13:00 citi.zen wrote:

The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you.

Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle.

I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this:

On March 17 2010 13:15 johnnyspazz wrote:
perhaps we should lynch L and see if bombs explode

On March 17 2010 13:14 L wrote:
Please fucking ignore him incog. Its pretty obvious that he's guilty as shit.

Focus on important matters; If you trust me, Its claim time.

DTs: Night check information from night 2 please.

Bus Drivers and Medics: I can understand you guys being afraid, so I won't be dropping the hateraid on you if you don't claim, but we need to co-ordinate protection for the next night. Its REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. So give me a shout if you think I'm legit, which you probably should if you've read this thread for long enough.

On March 17 2010 13:10 Incognito wrote:


Can you point out my "obviously bad arguments"? I might be able to explain them.

Has anyone important died? No. Well, not besides Zona. But that would kinda be expected from the mafia, no? Either way, as a mafia, I'd be way more inclined to just silence the people who roleclaim to me with bullets instead of trying to goad them, waste my powers, AND telling this all to the town.

On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:
Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen?

Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town.

It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless.
Yuck.


Also, what the heck is this:
Why are you simply naming the other reputable players in the game? "Good enough to be mafia"? How does being "good" have any relation to their chance of being mafia in a game with randomly distributed roles? And being quiet isn't automatically a mafia tell. Maybe they just want to try a different style this game.

Finally, did you put a serious effort into your election campaign beyond the initial posts?



nemY is absolutely right in this case. First of all the GF role only has a purpose if the DT is still around, so if you lose the DT, the GF is just another mafia member. Secondly, and I'm probably reiterating things that everyone knows, the power of the DT is not only to identify mafia but to privately or publicly confirm town members for various uses. (Private trust-worthy discussions, for example.) And so trading the DT for a single mafia member is not ideal.


I'm surprised that this early in the game I'm making a post of this size focused on just one of our players, but those three statements are truly bad ideas that do not help the town. Whether they were things you truly overlooked while formulating your ideas or are intentional actions, the town will have to examine what plans you propose very carefully.


P.S. Everyone who's using red and blue and whatever colors to strengthen your posts - please don't. The colors themselves do not contribute anything whatsoever to your reasoning, and instead (at least to me) shows that you don't have enough confidence in your arguments alone and have to rely on gimmicks to reinforce them.

On March 16 2010 07:44 Zona wrote:
Damn there's a lot to catch up on. I'm going to respond to bits and pieces as I read them, so prepare for quite a few posts.

Do not pardon anyone. (I'm still catching up on posts and haven't decided whether or not he feels innocent.) Even if he is innocent and dies, we need that information as town. If you pardon, we have no idea whether or not he is innocent, and we cannot use that information to evaluate how people were discussing him. Even a town member being lynched provides more information than we had before, and we need this information.

To be honest I think the existence of a pardoner is not helpful to the town because pardoning itself is rarely beneficial, and is downright dangerous in the hands of a mafia pardoner late game, but that's a discussion for elsewhere, I suppose.

On March 17 2010 13:24 L wrote:

Citi.zen, how about this: We lynch BM today. If he dies and flips green I'll put a bomb on you and when I die you'll die regardless.

K?

K.

Thanks.

On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons.

Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs.

Seriously, that move is self expainatory.

He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver.

On March 17 2010 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Roleclaim your role as you just claimed blue/red, and I claimed to incog before running for election.

Or shall you be on the chopping block next

On March 17 2010 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Roleclaim your role as you just claimed blue/red, and I claimed to incog before running for election.

Or shall you be on the chopping block next

On March 17 2010 13:47 d3_crescentia wrote:

So somehow you all just magically knew that the other two were blue? That's what bothers me.

I'm surprised the mafia wouldn't run any of their own, unless they KNEW how powerful DTs could be in office, and thus would rather have them in than out, and hope to stack hits on BGs so they can eliminate the offices. But it seems odd so far that they'd waste hits on Vivi and Fulgrim before moving onto BGs. This either suggests to me an inactive/disorganized/noob mafia. In this respect Xelin and Iaaan come to mind, with Xelin being the stronger suspect. I still feel that Iaaan is being very much Iaaan, but if he is mafia bus driver he'll be ineffectual unless he gets his hands on some private information.

Here's where I'm going to trust the counsel of our wise town leaders and vote for BM despite my doubts. I'm of the belief that he's consistently inconsistent with his reasoning, but I don't see any better analysis out there.

BC, L, Incognito possibilities:

1. All are town. Great stuff.

2. All are red. Highly unlikely. The 2nd DT story must be true, otherwise it’s both unnecessary and very risky (remember, in this scenario we’re assuming BC is red, so that would make 2 “fake” DTs, which would look incredibly suspect to the real DT, who would call them out at some point). Given then that the 2nd DT story is likely true, and they checked sidersprang/L, then L must be GF if red at all. However, it seems unlikely he would choose GF over BC in this case, I just don't see it.

So while remotely possible, it seems extremely unlikely all 3 are red. Finally, if all 3 are red and were contacted by this 2nd DT, the DT would be dead by now. The “other DT’s” blind faith in Incognito is still bothersome, but it would help explain why he chose sidersprang too, using Incognito’s (bad-idea) DT check-list.

3. Two are red, 3rd one is not.
3a. In + BC are red, L is blue. I don’t see this as a possibility: L would know they were wrong about his role (unless they guessed right – highly unlikely).
3b. L + BC are red, In is not. Again, highly unlikely, BC can’t pass night 2 test from In unless he is implausibly lucky.
3c. L + In are red but BC is not. Could happen, but would require L to be GF to pass DT checks.

4. One is red, others are not.
BC can’t be red if the other two are not – he’d have to get hugely lucky on both nights.
If L is red and the others are not, he’d have to be GF.
In could obviously be anything-aligned.

Conclusions:

BC is very likely blue as claimed, in all scenarios. The only shadow of doubt is in the “all red” scenario, which seems extremely unlikely as explained above.

L may be red under scenarios 4 anc 3c, and would have to be GF in both cases. Given the timing of his initial soft-roleclaim this seems unlikely, but perhaps exercise some caution for another night.

Incognito could obviously be anything-aligned, but given the “other DT” is most likely real and still alive, he’s looking pretty blue now as well.

I understand why you are extremely frustrated. Last game, I felt bored and out-of-the-loop, because even though there was a LOT of activity in the thread, it seemed like the "town circle" kept a lot of information to themselves, and it ended up to the point that my activity dwindled down to me becoming reaally inactive and didn't put in much effort into my posts, because no one seemed to listen anyways. As a townie again this game, I'm striving to stay focused and active. I DO think there's a worth in us posting publicly in the thread, even if our officials are hiding behind the scenes. Why? Because even though it's really boring that the thread is crawling along at the pace of a snail, it is this that makes it difficult for mafia to slip through the cracks. Also, in this game, every post can be considered, and nothing readily dismissed.

I do agree with you though that BC should have been more forthcoming with information earlier in the game, ESPECIALLY as a protected DT. But it seems that he has pretty much chosen to play this game as a figurehead of sorts, with Incognito as the spokesperson.

On March 18 2010 09:25 L wrote:

Sorry, but that's bullshit.

1) Mafia wouldn't know who the second DT is.

2) Mafia wouldn't know who the medics are.

3) Mafia wouldn't know who my bombs are on.

Etc.

Taking a single turn to net TWO MEDIC KILLS is not a small thing. Nor is following that up with TWO DT KILLS. the alternative is that mafia guess who the DT and medics are and channel a hit per night using the driver.

2 DTs dead with unknown medics vs a full list of blues + medics dead + DTs dead shortly thereafter.

You're essentially saying that a single extra day is worth losing all our blues.

WRONG.

If Incog is pardoner, he might have moved for the double lynch to use the pardoner ability and stop both.

I'm not saying we need to kill Incog; he's probably legit. He just isn't getting medic protection over DTs. Sorry.

I am now reasonably reassured we're in good shape and can trust BC, at the very least. If BC and the "other DT" live through another night, Incognito looks pretty legitimate as well.

From: Zona [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: LOL - check this out
Date: 3/17/10 08:40
Read all of this - especially the middle paragraph.

From: Iaaan [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 3/17/10 08:36
I am reasonably sure that BC is the DT, even if he isn't doing the best job taking advantage of it. L I am less sure about, however I think the most suspicious thing about his is simply his style. Incognito has said to me in PM's that his roles makes it so that it isnt beneficial for the town to know it until the time is right. This makes me think he is most likly a bus driver, and least likely a DT or medic, MAYBE a vigilante.

On another note, another thing that came from my PMing, I claimed to be a mafia bus driver to Johnnyspazz, and he in turn claimed to be mafia. Obviously there are trust issues, I know that he has been discrediting me in PM's to other people, telling them what I've been doing. This makes me more inclined to think that he is town, and trying to get me killed. The way to confirm eachother is that he has told me his kill list, and the reason I'm telling you this is because you are on it; if he is mafia you cannot be. They are also placing a hit on Bill murray, which I am to switch with L. I am not a bus driver, but I think that I may be able to get one to do the switch for me. If you and bill/L don't get hit, then we know the johnnyspazz is probably town.

Again, I think that both of us are BSing eachother. If he is mafia, you are safe to contact, as well as Bill Murray and L, and maybe I can find more mafia through him. If not, I'm covering my ass for later.

-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Hey, let's talk. What do you think about the BC/L situation? Both town? Both mafia? BC town but L's mafia and tricked him? (Or BC mafia and L town? But I don't see how that explains anything.) BC's not being very responsive to the town and L doesn't post in a clear way...I can't figure out what their strategy is.
Clearing the doubt around BC one way or another can really help the town move forwards...

And incognito, the third of the serious election candidates - how does he fit in? BC/L town and incognito mafia? all of them town (is it likely the mafia didn't run any serious candidates)?

On March 18 2010 07:12 L wrote:

FALSITIES. ^_^.

On March 17 2010 10:08 Zona wrote:
Fcusk. I die before day 3 again.

From my dying spirit I toss to you the torch, town...good luck!

On March 18 2010 12:19 johnnyspazz wrote:

that means since im green, iaaan is red!
incognito also thinks he's red

On March 18 2010 12:19 Ace wrote:
even things like Ls sexuality are subjective in a game of Mafia. You people are gumps lol

Versatile United States. March 16 2010 06:39. Posts 234 PM Profile Quote


next time you want my attention, just lift your skirt up a bit. that always does the trick
"I am so hip, even my errors are correct"

citi.zen March 16 2010 06:42. Posts 1210 PM Profile Quote edit
Damn lesbians.
lalalalala

Versatile United States. March 16 2010 06:45. Posts 234 PM Profile Quote
wait, L's a girl? that makes my joke not as much fun : (
"I am so hip, even my errors are correct"

citi.zen March 16 2010 06:53. Posts 1210 PM Profile Quote edit
Yeah, you should be ashamed of yourself .

On March 19 2010 04:53 L wrote:

You're an intentionally horrendous guesser in the first paragraph there.

If you were ACTUALLY suspicious of XeliN you'd probably tell him to stop riding your balls, but you take all the help you can get and he seems to have claimed to you. Seeing as there are probably only 2 people that I don't know about at this point in the game, I can probably tell you what role he is too.

But yeah, you putting a vote on him when he's claimed to you, given the role he probably claimed is fucking hilarious.

On March 19 2010 09:31 Incognito wrote:


Actually right now I'm not organizing the town. I guess BC/L decided to toss me out of the bus once I ran out of driving juice. Either way, yes the last paragraph was to l10f.

BM looks active. But he says pretty much nothing. So I consider him on the inactive list. Of course there is a group of inactive players. What do you think RCs and bombs are for? Either way, quit yelling at me. I'm not the one voting Bill.

If you feel like it, you can continue with the sarcasm, but it doesn't help your case. Nice job responding to my statements and giving us a wonderful candidate that will give us more information.



Nope I didn't say to lynch obvious greens.

Points 1 and 2 are moot. You're suspicious anyway regardless of Bills alignment. Nope I didn't say lynch BM anyways. Look who I'm voting.

On March 19 2010 09:46 Bill Murray wrote:
the "promising lynching strategy" of L, proving that this game would rather give into soreness from a previous game and elitism, and doesn't care about innocence.

On March 19 2010 19:12 madnessman wrote:


What about this plan: we lynch you tomorrow.



You've pulled this shit in 2/2 of the mafia games I've played, and chances are, this game JUST LIKE LAST GAME you're not going to hold up your end of the bargain. I think you should be lynched just based on principle. You can't say shit like that if you yourself are unsure--if there is even a possibility that you could be wrong. I followed you and voted for BM for the lynch BECAUSE you volunteered to be lynched if you were wrong; thus I figured, BM must be mafia because there's no way this guy would say something like that unless he was very very sure that he is correct.

To the rest of the town: I don't think we should be so ready to trust L, just because he has the role of a mad hatter. Sure, he's been saying throughout the game that his role is easily provable. But that's only the case ONCE HE'S DEAD. It's kind of a circular argument: "Vote me for mayor, because I'm blue! But don't worry, my role is provable! But it's only provable once I'm dead, but don't kill me...I'm not mafia! Keep me alive, because I'm blue, and my role is easily provable..." Etc etc.

Tbh, I don't think the mad hatter role is very difficult for mafia to claim. As long as the mad hatter stays alive, his role is unable to be proven. And by claiming blue and saying his role is easily provable, people are less likely to lynch him. Therefore, it's possible for mafia to claim mad hatter--they just have to be willing to take the gamble that the GF won't get killed off early in game. And this is L that we're talking about--if anyone would take this gamble, it'd be him; he's ballsy enough to pull off a stunt like this.

On March 21 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:
I'll host the next game, and I think Zona is hosting one too. My game won't be standard though as I just don't trust most people here to play well in that kind of setup (see this game for reference).


@L: the fact that no matter what the game setup is and you repeatedly do push for innocent lynches is exactly why people call you blind. Your whole style revolves around killing everyone for information and then the town loses because of it. It's just a bad idea all around. You also don't read people's posts and just like to twist words. Look at Fishball's posts at the end of this game and Versatile during the game. They have legit points and imo they are correct. You just want to appear smarter than they do when in fact, you are so off the wall no one can tell if you just troll them or read a totally different post than we did ^_^.

On March 21 2010 10:56 Zona wrote:


I disagree. I stated this before, but I think that if a player who is town in a game makes bad arguments or is not being helpful in general to aid his or her chances as a mafia member in future games is not a show of skill, but instead shows a lack of skill, because this player is not confident in his or her ability to be helpful and appear town-like in a game as mafia.
The player is essentially hurting the town (and his/her) chances to win when playing as a member of the town only to help his/her chances to win when playing as a member of the mafia.

On March 21 2010 13:32 ~OpZ~ wrote:


Brain dead super armor...Lol...

L and Ace agreed too. Hahaha