EPTAlthough your open statement that you are happy to be lynched if Bill flips green does at least make it plausible that you are trying to lynch him legitimately, i remember i said the same in my first game when I was almost certain dozko was mafia, but it currently seems to me you are trying to distract us from actually finding real mafia. Currently I'm going to be voting for you on the next day cycle, you seem to be acting in exactly the way I might expect mafia to.
TL Mafia XX - Page 49
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
Although your open statement that you are happy to be lynched if Bill flips green does at least make it plausible that you are trying to lynch him legitimately, i remember i said the same in my first game when I was almost certain dozko was mafia, but it currently seems to me you are trying to distract us from actually finding real mafia. Currently I'm going to be voting for you on the next day cycle, you seem to be acting in exactly the way I might expect mafia to. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 17 2010 03:33 Fishball wrote: Like I said, it is a relevant thing. Obviously we have totally different definitions of being "active". Do you not wish to help the town? We're trying to find mafia. You help the town in two ways - posting ideas that may shed light on who mafia are. Posting ideas so that you yourself appear less suspicious and more like a town member. Since you've posted no real ideas whatsoever - we have no way of reading you. And only those who are mafia benefit when we have no idea where someone's alignment lies. You need to contribute so that we do not suspect YOU as mafia. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 16 2010 15:40 Incognito wrote: Other thoughts: I find it interesting how Versatile brings up an ultimatum on BC. Then proceeds to viciously attack the fact that BC isn't announcing people he's checked. Then, when BC responds, Versatile disappears. Something is not right here. The way they're going at each other, I'm guessing one of BC/Versatile are mafia. The question right now is, which one? Good question. Atm BC can be tested more than Versatile given BC's claim. This is a very bad post. Town members more often then not get into bigger arguments than town and mafia, because town members lack information, and mafia want to stay below the radar. Your conclusion here seems to be setting up a case on BC if Versatile dies and turns up townie (or vice versa), which I very much dislike. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
I want the town to think very much about BC/L working together. So much so that L is elaborating on BC's statements, and BC does nothing to refute L's elaborations. If they can prove themselves as town, we're in amazing shape. I am curious how they came to trust each other though. A DT/mayor (if that's what BC actually is) definitely needs to be very sure before trusting someone, so I assume BC would have done his due diligence before trusting L. However, if BC went according to his plan, he would have checked the other elected official, incognito, first. I very very much want and hope that BC/L are both town and working together. However, another reason why they might be working together is if they're both mafia. Now there's little sign that both are mafia right now, but if we accept that they're both not mafia, I want to know how they came to trust each other. You may say I'm fishing for information, but I'm looking for explanations of your public actions. You two are working together, and we as a town should be wondering if there's any valid reason WHY. Because if there is no strong reason why they should trust each other, there's only one other explanation why they do so. It should be BC's number one priority to get the trust of the town right now. Prove to us that you're a legit DT/mayor. Like Versatile has said, once BC has proved himself, he can become the center of a much larger town circle, everyone can role claim to him, and we can wrap up this game. If BC cannot prove himself to be DT, then the town needs to remember how powerful a mafia member can be with three votes and an excuse for not getting nightkilled. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
BM did mess with two votes, so i think L's suspicion is justified. however, L was out for BM before the game even began, so i feel like his judgment might be clouded. if neither one of them is hit tonight, i'm inclined to think that they're just two townies going at one another and mafia wants them alive to distract. but it's equal possible that if one is mafia, the other won't be hit due to drawing attention to himself. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On March 16 2010 22:34 flamewheel91 wrote: Hey wait a minute... Incognito went from being a Hydra to being a Corsair :O Shhhh Drones aren't allowed to talk unless threats of lightning are involved. | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
Random list of suspects These are people that currently seem fishy in some sense that make them stand out in my mind. I will attempt to do my best at giving a reason why. To start with Xelin + Show Spoiler + He has been “active” thus far. As in he ran in the election, although it went no where. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote: I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate. I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played. DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on. Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me). Elect XeliN ! Keep that bolded statement in mind. He basically wanted to be checked to co-ordinate with blues. Cool idea right? However, it puts him the center of the town circle. Seems like something anyone would want. Seems kinda legit until you On March 15 2010 07:26 Abenson wrote: From what I've seen so far, I think that: I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results. I know that this is risky, but I think it's extremely important that we get information from the dt's. Note: this abenson quote is because of the following On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote: Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote: Declaration: I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts? He specifically wanted to lynch abenson if elected. However, (keep in mind the abenson quote I posted above), he then agrees with him found On March 15 2010 08:08 XeliN wrote: well if BC was telling the truth about his role there is no reason he should not disclose who he has checked, instead of writing their specific role he could simply say "checked X and result was either Red//Townie" posting blue roles would be bad because it gives the mafia information but I can't see how it would not be beneficial to share the results in that way. I don't think it's right that he can get away with claiming DT and not provide any evidence that he is, seems dodgy to me. This is what confuses me. He actively wanted to kill abenson, yet agrees that all DT info should be handed over to town. In this case he does want me to name who I’ve cleared, but not their role (ok, seems kinda cool I guess) except of how bad an Idea it is. Lets spell it out simply. If someone is red, they get called out immediately, but as soon as you give a list of “cleared” players, especially this early, the mafia just has to continiously shoot them to prevent a town circle of any kind forming. So in short, my main reason for suspecting him, he wants information/be in control of information that as town, he should know how it should be used, while at the same time agreeing with the person he wanted to kill if he had been elected. Not a lot to go on really at the moment, but enough to keep me looking at him. Also as a minor note, he hasn’t kept his archives up to date at the time of this post, something minor but worth noting for reference later. A quite long delayed response, apologies have been pretty busy and only able to skim through the thread mostly. Firstly I wanted to lynch Abenson mostly because from the start I thought we should put a place a rule whereby inactives or people who are not contributing were immediately lynched, Abenson struck me as a person who had contributed very little in comparison to others. I agreed that some info shuld be publically posted mainly to try to verify you as a DT, it has been a long time since you roleclaimed and as of yet it seems quite plausible that you could have been lying all along about being DT, basically I didn't want people to get away with roleclaiming in order to get into office and then getting away with providing us no evidence that you are that role. And the archives is an annoying (but neccesary) chore, ill update it later on today | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
I think the pardoner MECHANISM as a whole brings NOTHING good to the town. When players die, the rest of the town gains CONCRETE INFORMATION. However, with mafia nightkills, the mafia decides what information to reveal, so the information from a lynch is much more valuable, because it is not totally driven by the mafia. As well, vote history is very valuable when combined with lynch results. So when the pardoner ever pardons, the town is deprived of information is needs to get. Okay, so the pardoner shouldn't pardon. But therein lies the problem. When we reach lategame, the pardoner power becomes EVEN MORE DANGEROUS to the town, when in the hands of a mafia member. By that point in the game, the pardon can simply be used to cancel a town's lynch, and allow the mafia to continue whittling down the town with their nightkill. So we as a town want to reach lategame without the pardoner having his or her power. But if the pardoner ever uses his or her power...it's a bad thing. I have no easy answer to this dilemma. However, if we force the pardoner to use up pardons earlier in the game to remove the risk of mafia pardoning late game, the town falls behind and loses two lynches. If we kill the pardoner with a lynch, we fall behind in ONE lynch, but we also lose one town member. The only alternative is we somehow have to prove the pardoner is definitely town, so we can avoid using pardons and also go into the lategame without worrying about mafia pardoning. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
that one time I was on IRC, I talked with BC and Ace. He can also vouch for me posting the Mystlord stream I was going to be viewing as a link in the IRC channel. I have been on there once in years. Those statements are not contradictory, Zona. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
so for lynch candidates for day 3, what does everyone think of putting the L/BM thing to rest. i highly doubt that either one of them will be killed during the night. as i stated before, if they're both townies, the mafia will want them @ each others' throats as a distraction, and if either is mafia, the death of one during the night would draw too much attention to the other. unless they're just that diabolical. thoughts? | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On March 17 2010 03:55 Zona wrote: Another thing I want the town to think about is the pardoner power. I think the pardoner MECHANISM as a whole brings NOTHING good to the town. When players die, the rest of the town gains CONCRETE INFORMATION. However, with mafia nightkills, the mafia decides what information to reveal, so the information from a lynch is much more valuable, because it is not totally driven by the mafia. As well, vote history is very valuable when combined with lynch results. So when the pardoner ever pardons, the town is deprived of information is needs to get. Okay, so the pardoner shouldn't pardon. But therein lies the problem. When we reach lategame, the pardoner power becomes EVEN MORE DANGEROUS to the town, when in the hands of a mafia member. By that point in the game, the pardon can simply be used to cancel a town's lynch, and allow the mafia to continue whittling down the town with their nightkill. So we as a town want to reach lategame without the pardoner having his or her power. But if the pardoner ever uses his or her power...it's a bad thing. I have no easy answer to this dilemma. However, if we force the pardoner to use up pardons earlier in the game to remove the risk of mafia pardoning late game, the town falls behind and loses two lynches. If we kill the pardoner with a lynch, we fall behind in ONE lynch, but we also lose one town member. The only alternative is we somehow have to prove the pardoner is definitely town, so we can avoid using pardons and also go into the lategame without worrying about mafia pardoning. i think there is only one way to deal with this. the two tells the pardoner (incog in this game) that we do not want any lynches. and if he goes against the town's wishes so blantantly, that's cause for immediate lynching. of course, this should have been done in the beginning of the game, but we can just keep it in mind for future games as well. obviously there some problems with this, for example, it counts on the pardoner keeping their word so it is not full proof. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:02 Versatile wrote: i think there is only one way to deal with this. the two tells the pardoner (incog in this game) that we do not want any lynches. and if he goes against the town's wishes so blantantly, that's cause for immediate lynching. of course, this should have been done in the beginning of the game, but we can just keep it in mind for future games as well. obviously there some problems with this, for example, it counts on the pardoner keeping their word so it is not full proof. The thing is, the pardoner obeying the town in using up pardons in the first two days does nothing to prove how town-aligned they are. The mafia would be happy to have a monopoly on kills for two days. They then control what information the town has. Actually the first town lynch vote is probably one of the most important in the game, because it provides the first voting record for the town to examine. I'd definitely be against pardoning that one... That's why the mechanic of having the mayor decide the first lynch actually sets the town back, because there's no voting history to examine day 2. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
It could just be the want for information, but you did say they shouldn't be released earlier. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On March 17 2010 03:59 Versatile wrote: i can see the town is hesitant to lynch BC, and if that's not what the town wants, i will go with that. so for lynch candidates for day 3, what does everyone think of putting the L/BM thing to rest. i highly doubt that either one of them will be killed during the night. as i stated before, if they're both townies, the mafia will want them @ each others' throats as a distraction, and if either is mafia, the death of one during the night would draw too much attention to the other. unless they're just that diabolical. thoughts? I would love to put it to rest. I like L. I believe he is town. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:02 Versatile wrote: i think there is only one way to deal with this. the two tells the pardoner (incog in this game) that we do not want any lynches. and if he goes against the town's wishes so blantantly, that's cause for immediate lynching. of course, this should have been done in the beginning of the game, but we can just keep it in mind for future games as well. obviously there some problems with this, for example, it counts on the pardoner keeping their word so it is not full proof. It would also be torn if the pardoner was a DT. If he claimed DT he could justify saving someone. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:07 Zona wrote: The thing is, the pardoner obeying the town in using up pardons in the first two days does nothing to prove how town-aligned they are. The mafia would be happy to have a monopoly on kills for two days. They then control what information the town has. Actually the first town lynch vote is probably one of the most important in the game, because it provides the first voting record for the town to examine. I'd definitely be against pardoning that one... That's why the mechanic of having the mayor decide the first lynch actually sets the town back, because there's no voting history to examine day 2. no, maybe i wasn't clear. i'm saying the town should tell the pardoner NOT to use ANY lynches, period. this doesn't address the late game issue, but it prevents a mafia pardoner from saving his buddies without making it obvious he's red as well. i'm not sure what to do with the late game problem, i'll keep brainstorming. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:17 ~OpZ~ wrote: Although Incog did have a point when Versatile agreed to BC's plan, then decided he should release the names... It could just be the want for information, but you did say they shouldn't be released earlier. no monkeybreath, he didn't have a point because it's not true. i already addressed that. stop blatantly lying about me. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On March 17 2010 04:19 Bill Murray wrote: I would love to put it to rest. I like L. I believe he is town. you do realize "put to rest" means one of you should be lynched. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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