EPT@Dr.H: There wasn't a big backlash of people against my clue connection. Please, this is like the 5th time you've over exaggerated a situation.
TL Mafia XVIII - Page 56
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@Dr.H: There wasn't a big backlash of people against my clue connection. Please, this is like the 5th time you've over exaggerated a situation. | ||
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SugiuraMidori
United States281 Posts
On February 16 2010 06:59 d3_crescentia wrote: I think it's that we know Chez won't win; L doesn't want to support anyone and picks a joke vote, and Bill is an idiot... So why not just leave it at abstain like the other 20 people have? Either way it's going to be fun seeing who follows who in the end as that can help determine sides in the overall scheme. Maybe we'll see three sides appear? | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: @Caller: How Am I lying? Explain please. @Dr.H: There wasn't a big backlash of people against my clue connection. Please, this is like the 5th time you've over exaggerated a situation. your many traps that you lay appear to be just subtle trolls to provoke responses. I'm not saying that they're not valid sources of information, I'm just saying they're trolls designed to trip people up. It doesn't really help establish order in the town is my concern. | ||
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Iaaan
Canada578 Posts
On February 16 2010 06:57 d3_crescentia wrote: L, I'll nibble... only a bit. The clues we have regarding Emp are that his name has links to light, fire and heaven, but it seems to me that "thinking that an angel had saved the town" is more a manner of speech; a being masked by light is not necessarily the same as an angelic being. Consider BloodyCobbler's profile - plenty of blue-ish light in there, and it seems that he was eager to set you up as super-eager to lynch Ace. I'm curious as to why no one's focusing on the hyena-laughter/psychopathic noises. Madnessman feels pretty red-herring to me, but who else could it be? To add onto why empyrean might not be the best choice; no one is defending him. If he were mafia, him family wouldn't want him dead, it doesn't seem like sacrificing him would really benefit his family. You would think that if he were mafia, at least someone would try to defend him. | ||
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Iaaan
Canada578 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:05 L wrote: Its not a wasted vote. I'd rather have someone who i'm pretty sure is a DT in office regardless of his posting mannerisms if the alternatives are just as stupid with far less potential for being blue. But with a little less than two hours left, do you think your vote can actually make a difference? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
You have a very funny set of standards there sir. L even said he PM'd Empyrean. | ||
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789
United States959 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:18 d3_crescentia wrote: But with a little less than two hours left, do you think your vote can actually make a difference? Instead of asking me incredibly stupid questions, why don't you think on your own for 3 seconds? Yeah, no shit I think it makes a difference, otherwise I wouldn't have voted. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:07 789 wrote: I think you have a good point with BC, that's another potential fit for the last killer. I've looked into the laughter and the noises and got nothing. The hyena like laughter came up at one point during the last mafia game we played - but it didn't seem to fit anyone in that game. The people who were mafia in that game and are in this game are: DrH Mystlord Phrujbaz It still doesn't seem to fit any of the 3. Though I'll be honest I haven't for the life of me been able to find out what Phrujbaz means. From Mystlords profile: ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/38753.jpg?1265874875) The girl appears to be laughing from atop a roof, which is the location of the killer in the scenario. Interestingly enough, the town is burning around her which is fitting since arson was used by other killers to get the job done. She doesn't necessarily appear to be the cause of the fire, but rather is amongst it | ||
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d3_crescentia
United States4054 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:20 L wrote: Instead of asking me incredibly stupid questions, why don't you think on your own for 3 seconds? Yeah, no shit I think it makes a difference, otherwise I wouldn't have voted. Well, that certainly puts everything into a whole new perspective for me. I appreciate your honestly. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
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789
United States959 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: From Mystlords profile: The girl appears to be laughing from atop a roof, which is the location of the killer in the scenario. Interestingly enough, the town is burning around her which is fitting since arson was used by other killers to get the job done. She doesn't necessarily appear to be the cause of the fire, but rather is amongst it You know DrH, I think that's a really good point. I had always looked at the fire in the picture as a potential connection to the arson. I never thought about it in terms of one of the killers after the fire had started. She also appears to have sort of a crazy look in addition to her laughing which could fit the psychotic noises. So it sort of has a mesh between the noises and the laughter. I don't think it is enough to lynch on quite yet, but it is a nice one to file away. This is sort of why I made my post ... I thought something might be there in one of the profiles but didn't see anything myself. So I brought it up to see if anyone else did and it may have paid off. | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On February 16 2010 06:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia.Spamming the thread full of what shit? Posting an objective compilation of everyones arguments? Compiling voting history? Defending myself when redtooth and Ace accused me of being mafia? Finally getting Bill Murray to justify his statements? Don't put me on the same level as BM TT___TT I guess for the time being Empyrean is our best bet. Ver did a great job of pointing out the inconsistency in his pro-town/mafia behavior from past games and the clue connection is just very very very very strong. Redtooth did a decent job of defending himself, or at least why it doesn't make sense that he and Ace are both in the same mafia family. His argument for him and ace not being in different mafia families doesn't make sense. "Why would mafia defend a mafia from another family/not mafia" Unless he wanted to discourage clue analysis because he fears it will hurt his mafia family, or wanted to defend Ace because regardless of Ace's role his argumentation is successfully dividing the town. If redtooth is mafia, he has no way of knowing Ace's role anyway, so saying "i wouldn't defend another families mafia" makes no sense because he doesn't know who those people are. I really doubt the mafia are going to ONLY defend one another, look what happened when I got lynched in the last game. By analyzing who I defended/supported/whose clues I ignored the entire rest of the mafia family was caught. I'm not accusing you of being mafia redtooth, I'm just pointing out that the argument falls short. I'm voting for L because so far his arguments have been extremely consistent, he's been trying to get the town moving/discouraging waste posts, and providing excellent clue analysis. Redtooth shouldn't have a problem with this, don't you want L as the other elected role anyway? as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was. and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already. so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up. | ||
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MasterDana
United States114 Posts
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:34 redtooth wrote: nobody else vote for me. list is fine as is. if L is mafia he doesn't get pardoner abilities. i didn't really plan on being mayor, just elected. and don't worry about chezinu. All game, redtooth, you've struck me as innocent. But it sounds like here you're pushing pretty hard for the mafia coveted pardoner seat by drawing attention to L. You are saying "better give me the pardoner seat, because L might be mafia!" - but it works in reverse too. It's hard not to question your motive for posting that | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:15 Iaaan wrote: To add onto why empyrean might not be the best choice; no one is defending him. If he were mafia, him family wouldn't want him dead, it doesn't seem like sacrificing him would really benefit his family. You would think that if he were mafia, at least someone would try to defend him. It could be a calculated sacrifice. If town is convinced that someone is mafia, mafia would be unwilling to put up a strong defense of that person without seeming scummy. We might see a light defense though. Also, there's just not that much to defend for him. He hasn't spoken one. freaking. word. As for my profile pic, nothing to say. It's a solid connection to the clues, and I won't blame you if you end up lynching me based off of that. Oh, and another point about Empyrean... Where do we go from his lynch? Are we just lynching to help out the other mafia family or what? I might be a bit ignorant in this, so I'd like to get this cleared up before I'm fully on board with the Empyrean lynch. It seems more like a dead end to me. If he truly is mafia, why not let a mafia family waste a kill on him? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 16 2010 07:44 redtooth wrote: you're right. actually that's exactly what i want you to do. i want L as mayor and i want to be pardoner. no vigilantes means pardoner is very very powerful if he is mafia. as for my argument in why it's sort of illogical for ace and me to be mafia in separate families is because consider the alternative: i could have silently held back and not brought attention to myself instead of being in the middle of controversy between the town. knowing previous games, L vs Ace was going to become a shitstorm whether i stepped in or not. instead i chose to argue a point, blew my top (admittedly more than a few times), and got into a position where my alignment was pretty damn clear. and if Ace isn't on my team (which would be the case if i was mafia and he wasn't in my family) then i would want him dead regardless of what role/alignment he was. and guys i've said this before but i genuinely believed L was full of shit. now i only think he is half shitty but i've expressed my disdain for day 1 clues enough already. so it's not about mafia ONLY defending each other. it's about a mafia risking his own neck to defend a good player that's not on his team. THAT is something that doesn't make sense. so if it doesn't make sense then that means i'm not mafia. yay we are finally caught up. Fair point, now that is a good argument. Why are we assuming day 1 clues are bad based off previous games? There are 20 mafia. It's highly unlikely that mafia will be getting 6 kills a night, I'd say 4 MAYBE 5 is more likely. Why? 1) Overlapping kills. The mafia are simply going to hit the same targets. Let's say, for example, Player X is green. He's been painted red by a lot of people and thus might be hit by both families. This could happen with anyone who was painted red but is not mafia of either family. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if even 2 kills overlap. 2) Smart medics. While mafia might avoid really big targets early on because they will be protected by medics, medics who are able to anticipate mafia goals will help reduce kills. With 20 mafia, let's assume we get 5 hits a day. We don't see overlapping clues until DAY SIX DAY SIX If everyone feels uncomfortable with Day 1 clue analysis just based on previous experience, I guess there isnt really anything I can say. But let's please not ignore clues on Day 2. If someone makes an accusation based on clues at you, provide an alternative. Simply saying "day 1 clues are trash" isn't enough, especially when you aren't addressing the point of just how many mafia there are in this game and how strong clues need to be. Also redtooth, I'd like you to clear something up for me. I found a mildly disturbing inconsistency in your arguments. While L was painting Ace red based on clues you said clue analysis on day 1 is trash; that's fine. You also said the clues pointing to ace specifically were shaky and not well thought-out. Then merely a few posts later you said that the clues pointing toward Ace were so obvious/numerous he can't be mafia. Was there a change of heart here? what happened? | ||
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