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On February 15 2010 09:52 Foolishness wrote:
Okay people lets consider a few important ideas that are often overlooked that need to be taken into account soon.
There is absolutely zero reason to vote for Ver. We all know what happened last time he ran for office, I will summarize for those who are unfamiliar:
Ver: "waaa waaa I hate my life soooo many people PMing me waaa waaaa Ace Ace L Ace waa waaa please modkill me waaaa"
Point being, if you are town there is no reason to want Ver in office. If Ver is on the town side, he's only going to rage quit in two days. If Ver is mafia, you don't want a mafia in office. Don't elect someone who is going to cop out a third of the way through the game. At any rate, he has only half-heartedly made a campaign for office, I don't think he even wants to be elected anyways. Lots of people in the thread have been reinforcing their arguments with players' behavior in past games. Well, Ver's behavior in past games when he is elected is to rage quit. If you are one of these people that uses arguments like these, don't vote for Ver.
As I am sure someone else will do it, there seems to me to be a boatload of people who have yet to post or who have only made one or two posts (worthless posts might I add, for example OH HI IM HERE IMMA GO READ THE THREAD AND CATCH UP). As it has been correctly pointed out before, the mafia is going to be hiding among these inactive people. We have seen clearly in past games how the town goes ballistic killing itself while the mafia sits back and laughs. Lets make sure we keep track of all these people not contributing.
Okay, anyone who thinks we should kill Bill Murray is a complete idiot. Yes, that means you redtooth and DoctorHelvetica. And also laaan although you haven't explicitly said anything. Even BM pointed out that if he was mafia, he'd have other mafia members telling him what to post and how to do it. He is obviously way too incompetent where that would be the case this game. Furthermore, there are a bunch of inactive people, if he was mafia, I'm sure he'd be sitting right in that pool.
Remember guys, this is online mafia on teamliquid. This means that the teams are stacked for balancing issues (in other words, mafia members are not chosen at random). In a previous game where all of the veteran players where on the townside, the mafia got raped hard. With the addition of two mafia families, we can be reasonably sure that at least one, probably a few, of the veterans is mafia. While L's posts are almost all worth ignoring, he wants to kill Ace, who is a veteran, and thus we have to slog through his nonsensical posting. But killing off Ace is definitely something the town should highly consider. Perhaps you think Ace is too godly to kill off yet. If so, Ver has good analysis of BC, of which should be considered.
Remember guys, a veteran on the mafia side is a huge threat. They have the power to organize the mafia to victory. A mafia without a veteran is relatively helpless. On the contrast, the town can make do without a veteran. In fact, lots of times veterans hurt the town more than they help (I could site numerous examples, but I'm sure you all know). It's really easy for a novice player to step up as a green/blue and lead the town to victory. Heck I have nearly pulled this feat off in my first two games when I correctly found over 50% of the mafia. And I definitely pulled it off without any so called "veterans". It's clear that killing veterans is the right course of action as we could potentially deal a substantial blow to the mafia.
Considering Bill Murrays hotheaded attitude and erratic behavior in the previous game, I wouldn't be surprised if he posted without mafia direction. Besides, "oh i wouldnt do this if i was mafia dohohoho so i must be a townie" arguments are pretty weak.
Bill Murray isn't my #1 suspect anyway.
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On February 15 2010 09:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:52 Foolishness wrote:
Okay people lets consider a few important ideas that are often overlooked that need to be taken into account soon.
There is absolutely zero reason to vote for Ver. We all know what happened last time he ran for office, I will summarize for those who are unfamiliar:
Ver: "waaa waaa I hate my life soooo many people PMing me waaa waaaa Ace Ace L Ace waa waaa please modkill me waaaa"
Point being, if you are town there is no reason to want Ver in office. If Ver is on the town side, he's only going to rage quit in two days. If Ver is mafia, you don't want a mafia in office. Don't elect someone who is going to cop out a third of the way through the game. At any rate, he has only half-heartedly made a campaign for office, I don't think he even wants to be elected anyways. Lots of people in the thread have been reinforcing their arguments with players' behavior in past games. Well, Ver's behavior in past games when he is elected is to rage quit. If you are one of these people that uses arguments like these, don't vote for Ver.
As I am sure someone else will do it, there seems to me to be a boatload of people who have yet to post or who have only made one or two posts (worthless posts might I add, for example OH HI IM HERE IMMA GO READ THE THREAD AND CATCH UP). As it has been correctly pointed out before, the mafia is going to be hiding among these inactive people. We have seen clearly in past games how the town goes ballistic killing itself while the mafia sits back and laughs. Lets make sure we keep track of all these people not contributing.
Okay, anyone who thinks we should kill Bill Murray is a complete idiot. Yes, that means you redtooth and DoctorHelvetica. And also laaan although you haven't explicitly said anything. Even BM pointed out that if he was mafia, he'd have other mafia members telling him what to post and how to do it. He is obviously way too incompetent where that would be the case this game. Furthermore, there are a bunch of inactive people, if he was mafia, I'm sure he'd be sitting right in that pool.
Remember guys, this is online mafia on teamliquid. This means that the teams are stacked for balancing issues (in other words, mafia members are not chosen at random). In a previous game where all of the veteran players where on the townside, the mafia got raped hard. With the addition of two mafia families, we can be reasonably sure that at least one, probably a few, of the veterans is mafia. While L's posts are almost all worth ignoring, he wants to kill Ace, who is a veteran, and thus we have to slog through his nonsensical posting. But killing off Ace is definitely something the town should highly consider. Perhaps you think Ace is too godly to kill off yet. If so, Ver has good analysis of BC, of which should be considered.
Remember guys, a veteran on the mafia side is a huge threat. They have the power to organize the mafia to victory. A mafia without a veteran is relatively helpless. On the contrast, the town can make do without a veteran. In fact, lots of times veterans hurt the town more than they help (I could site numerous examples, but I'm sure you all know). It's really easy for a novice player to step up as a green/blue and lead the town to victory. Heck I have nearly pulled this feat off in my first two games when I correctly found over 50% of the mafia. And I definitely pulled it off without any so called "veterans". It's clear that killing veterans is the right course of action as we could potentially deal a substantial blow to the mafia. Considering Bill Murrays hotheaded attitude and erratic behavior in the previous game, I wouldn't be surprised if he posted without mafia direction. Besides, "oh i wouldnt do this if i was mafia dohohoho so i must be a townie" arguments are pretty weak. Bill Murray isn't my #1 suspect anyway.
I'm confident that if Bill is mafia, he'll fuck up so massively in the next few days that we'll be conclusively sure of it.
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On February 15 2010 09:53 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:51 789 wrote:
Did Empyrean have a profile before? It is pretty much blank right now... He posted a while back saying he doesn't have a password to change his profile. The connection to clues was based on his name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empyrean
Oh I see. Yeah that does seem pretty strong link to the arson killing. I'm a little hesitant to do the first few lynches based off clues though, being as what happened last game when we tried to rely to heavily on them from the start.
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On February 15 2010 09:38 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On February 15 2010 09:25 L wrote:On February 15 2010 09:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On February 15 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 15 2010 09:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On February 15 2010 08:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:A VERY IMPORTANT POINT THAT HAS BEEN IGNORED or, why I now agree with L Initially I made the mistake of strategizing as I would in a game with 1 mafia family against 1 town and a relatively small number of mafia (say 8 or less) I agreed with Ver thinking "clue analysis will become stronger as clue profiles build on mafia." I know that in Incognitos last game, he used a set order of clues. The first day was myself and keit, then derfboy, phrujbaz, etc. etc. Eventually it repeated and went back to keit, this made the clues on him much stronger. By about the 3rd or 4th day, the town now had a much stronger clue profile on a single mafia and the town could have lynched him a bit more securely. In this game, there are 20 mafia. I assume kills will overlap (meaning Mafia and Yakuza both hit the same target) and medics will eventually do their thing, meaning we might not even get 6 clues a day. If there were exactly 6 kills a night, by the 4th day we would have a "clue profile" with multiple clue sets on a single mafia member. Either we ignore clues completely because of this, or we start analyzing them from Day 1 onward. Unless of course, Incognito decides not to go in a specific order, meaning that we might get multiple clues on a single mafia very early and much more often. But I think that is unlikely. It is an important point. However, as someone who likes clue analyzing. Let me give you an example of day 1 clues should be done. Discussed (yay) but don't actively lynch someone based off of it, its not reliable. You need time to build your profiles of people. Day 1 clues start the process of building mafia profiles. You can usually easy pin in family games, which family is responsible for which killings. You then label them mafia family A, and mafia family B. As clues are given, you put themes under each mafia heading. The more time that goes by, the more you have, the better your chances of linking to someone. Using day 1 clues, you have things that are red herrings, as well as some things that are clues. I enjoy seeing L looking at them, but he looks more like hes pushing to get ace lynched than actually look at the clues. The whole theme of horsemen (at the moment to me) is moot. Things like darkness, or moonlight/blinding, could indeed be clues. However, without more days worth of clues, its harder to know if it is or not. Its why Camlito and MTF post very little analysis until they have solid leads. Until then its wild speculation. Chances are that incog will just link more than 3 members of a family per night, or hell, we are getting 6 mafia per night in clues anyway, we could get really lucky on one of them later, or he could reuse one from day 1 in day 2, etc... Day 1 clues are deff important, but moreso down the line than now. My argument is that it will take so long to build clue profiles that it will become useless. Doing things like seperating killers into families is all well and good though. Thing is, in a game with this many killers, for all we know, incog could be going 4-5 members a family in clue sets, or he could be doing one per kill, etc... As people die off you also get a good indicator of whos red so on and so forth. Its not a fast process in clues, it never is. Over analyzing things like L is, can pay off for sure, but it can also create bandwagons that off us faster. The greatest thing it has done so far this game is get alot of people talking, and which has given us alot of insight into peoples behaviour Explain how even super rudimentary linking is 'over' analyzing? Actually, explain what you mean by overanalyzing using specifics, because it seems like you're trying to discredit some of the only tangible work being done without actually dealing with any of the arguments. I discredit the fact that you have centered almost purely around ace? You spent time linking almost exclusively to him. You want him to be red, or just want him dead. However, instead had you spent time building themes for each killer then linked to multiple people based on that, its not as bad. I say this as, by pushing for one specific person on day 1 clues linking everything imaginable to them eventually you will get something that sticks. Do your connections make sense overall, Yes, could they all be red herrings however, Yes. I would rather instead see a list of people matching descriptions of each link and then off the most retarded or inactive of the bunch. You just seem to be pushing a vendetta overall however, it makes it harder to believe or follow. Purely around Ace? I've named Ace, Mystlord and Empyrean, and if you bothered to read anything since last night you'd know that I'm most certain of Empyrean. The fact that I spent so much time talking about Ace's clues were because other people decided to do things like you did and attempt to discredit clue analysis without actually looking at the content of the analysis itself. Once more, and its the last time I'll ask you. What specific clue link was overanalyzed? To add to the question; As a prior host, you should understand the basics of clue creation, so why did you ignore my request for specificity when you're one of the best placed players to deal with it in the face of my repeated attempt to get people to challenge the validity of the interpretation itself? Perhaps finally; Why tell other people to compile lists? You aren't a shitty player. Make them yourself. I'm pretty sick of people giving halfhearted statements like yours praising a path of action then not doing any work in that path. Show nested quote + I would rather instead see a list of people matching descriptions of each link Make one. I did the majority of the work for you already. Feel free to make yourself useful.
You may have named three people, but you have centered most of your arguments around Ace, and even stated that you prefered him over mystlord (and myst was your second pick). I may have missed a post somewhere of you re ranking, however I do agree Emp is a good find. I would actually label him as the person who kills kennigit if I had to.
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Oh foolishness, you posted on day 1 in a rather inflammatory tone instead of lurking until day 3 in an attempt to keep yourself alive.
I was going to call you out after scamp, but way to show initiative.
Also: 789, that's not a link to the arson killing you stupid twat. Its a link to the Angel's radiant flame killing.
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On February 15 2010 09:57 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 15 2010 09:52 Foolishness wrote:
Okay people lets consider a few important ideas that are often overlooked that need to be taken into account soon.
There is absolutely zero reason to vote for Ver. We all know what happened last time he ran for office, I will summarize for those who are unfamiliar:
Ver: "waaa waaa I hate my life soooo many people PMing me waaa waaaa Ace Ace L Ace waa waaa please modkill me waaaa"
Point being, if you are town there is no reason to want Ver in office. If Ver is on the town side, he's only going to rage quit in two days. If Ver is mafia, you don't want a mafia in office. Don't elect someone who is going to cop out a third of the way through the game. At any rate, he has only half-heartedly made a campaign for office, I don't think he even wants to be elected anyways. Lots of people in the thread have been reinforcing their arguments with players' behavior in past games. Well, Ver's behavior in past games when he is elected is to rage quit. If you are one of these people that uses arguments like these, don't vote for Ver.
As I am sure someone else will do it, there seems to me to be a boatload of people who have yet to post or who have only made one or two posts (worthless posts might I add, for example OH HI IM HERE IMMA GO READ THE THREAD AND CATCH UP). As it has been correctly pointed out before, the mafia is going to be hiding among these inactive people. We have seen clearly in past games how the town goes ballistic killing itself while the mafia sits back and laughs. Lets make sure we keep track of all these people not contributing.
Okay, anyone who thinks we should kill Bill Murray is a complete idiot. Yes, that means you redtooth and DoctorHelvetica. And also laaan although you haven't explicitly said anything. Even BM pointed out that if he was mafia, he'd have other mafia members telling him what to post and how to do it. He is obviously way too incompetent where that would be the case this game. Furthermore, there are a bunch of inactive people, if he was mafia, I'm sure he'd be sitting right in that pool.
Remember guys, this is online mafia on teamliquid. This means that the teams are stacked for balancing issues (in other words, mafia members are not chosen at random). In a previous game where all of the veteran players where on the townside, the mafia got raped hard. With the addition of two mafia families, we can be reasonably sure that at least one, probably a few, of the veterans is mafia. While L's posts are almost all worth ignoring, he wants to kill Ace, who is a veteran, and thus we have to slog through his nonsensical posting. But killing off Ace is definitely something the town should highly consider. Perhaps you think Ace is too godly to kill off yet. If so, Ver has good analysis of BC, of which should be considered.
Remember guys, a veteran on the mafia side is a huge threat. They have the power to organize the mafia to victory. A mafia without a veteran is relatively helpless. On the contrast, the town can make do without a veteran. In fact, lots of times veterans hurt the town more than they help (I could site numerous examples, but I'm sure you all know). It's really easy for a novice player to step up as a green/blue and lead the town to victory. Heck I have nearly pulled this feat off in my first two games when I correctly found over 50% of the mafia. And I definitely pulled it off without any so called "veterans". It's clear that killing veterans is the right course of action as we could potentially deal a substantial blow to the mafia. Considering Bill Murrays hotheaded attitude and erratic behavior in the previous game, I wouldn't be surprised if he posted without mafia direction. Besides, "oh i wouldnt do this if i was mafia dohohoho so i must be a townie" arguments are pretty weak. Bill Murray isn't my #1 suspect anyway. I'm confident that if Bill is mafia, he'll fuck up so massively in the next few days that we'll be conclusively sure of it.
Word. If he is mafia he'll either stop posting (which he says he will) or slip up again when he does. I think we should concentrate elsewhere for the time being. There seems to be 2 schools of thought: go for inactive or go for veterans, with many sub arguments in those 2 categories.
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In retrospect, that reply to 789 was rather mean. Despite hating to put 'fluff' posts up, I feel the need to keep decorum seeing as someone has been warned before and apologize for the tone.
But still, try to keep up with what's being said for crying out loud.
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Where else is there to go?
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On February 15 2010 10:00 L wrote:
Oh foolishness, you posted on day 1 in a rather inflammatory tone instead of lurking until day 3 in an attempt to keep yourself alive.
I was going to call you out after scamp, but way to show initiative.
Also: 789, that's not a link to the arson killing you stupid twat. Its a link to the Angel's radiant flame killing.
Wtf... He's the one who posted in an inflammatory tone?
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On February 15 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Where else is there to go?
@789
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On February 15 2010 10:01 L wrote:
In retrospect, that reply to 789 was rather mean. Despite hating to put 'fluff' posts up, I feel the need to keep decorum seeing as someone has been warned before and apologize for the tone.
But still, try to keep up with what's being said for crying out loud.
Erp... sorry skipped past this
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On February 15 2010 10:01 L wrote:
In retrospect, that reply to 789 was rather mean. Despite hating to put 'fluff' posts up, I feel the need to keep decorum seeing as someone has been warned before and apologize for the tone.
But still, try to keep up with what's being said for crying out loud.
Yeah I made a simple mistake, I had forgotten about that last killing. I am attempting to keep up.................. I'm sorry that I had other things to do over the weekend and had 25+ pages to keep up on. You could have just simply corrected me?
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if u dont listen to kpop while playing mafia
then ur not playin 4 real
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On February 15 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
if u dont listen to kpop while playing mafia
then ur not playin 4 real
I listen to Tom Waits... if that dude doesn't put you in a sombre mood that's good for thinking, then nothing will.
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On February 15 2010 10:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:@789
Well, as I said the 2 school of thought look like go for inactives or go for veteran players. If we go for inactives, we could combine that with clues and go for EMP... that seems to be the best way to go if we go after an inactive to me. As for veterans .. I don't personally have a leading candidate in mind there myself. Some of the stuff going on with accusations and stuff seems to be pre-existing grudges from other games.
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On February 15 2010 10:11 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
if u dont listen to kpop while playing mafia
then ur not playin 4 real I listen to Tom Waits... if that dude doesn't put you in a sombre mood that's good for thinking, then nothing will.
was just listening to this lol
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 15 2010 10:14 789 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 10:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 15 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Where else is there to go? @789 Well, as I said the 2 school of thought look like go for inactives or go for veteran players. If we go for inactives, we could combine that with clues and go for EMP... that seems to be the best way to go if we go after an inactive to me. As for veterans .. I don't personally have a leading candidate in mind there myself. Some of the stuff going on with accusations and stuff seems to be pre-existing grudges from other games.
Lynching Empyrean gives us no information. Although the clue connection is solid, Ace has a strong clue AND behavioral connection imo and we learn a lot depending on how he flips. It has nothing to do with if he's a veteran or not.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On February 15 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
if u dont listen to kpop while playing mafia
then ur not playin 4 real
Kpop is the stuff. Fo' realz.
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Ver
BloodyC0bbler
DoctorHelvetica -M? --Just a lot of useless posts that worship the word of Ver
MasterDana
johnnyspazz -M? --What Malongo said, and I tend to agree.
Ace
citi.zen
Vivi57
Empyrean
LucasWoJ
XeliN
Amber[Light]
Fishball
QuickStriker
789
dozko
Nikoner
tree.hugger
ShoCkeyy
Zato-1 - M1
Fulgrim
meeple
Chezinu
Scamp
d3_crescentia
L
Zona
Iaaan
~OpZ~
sidesprang
Shikyo
Caller
ohN
Abenson
nemY
Mystlord
redtooth
CynanMachae
Phrujbaz
tredmasta
SugiuraMidori
Bill Murray
iNfuNdiBuLuM
[NyC]HoBbes
Versatile
Faronel
Malongo
decafchicken
l10f
Foolishness
madnessman
______________________________________________
Keep in mind, I refuse to label anyone as blue, so green can be green or blue!
If they have no color.. I have yet to figure them out!
If they are underlined.. they made at least 3 posts.. or a combined posting of about 100 words.
Bold indicates any comments I made. Also refer to quotes below.
Italic can be saved for something else... not sure yet, will prolly be those that abstain from a vote.
Relevant Quotes:
<Zato-1>
This game is different. If 'they' lose, by which I mean mafia members start dying, this will not necessarily be to our advantage. To illustrate my point, imagine there's 7 members of the Gambino family left alive, and 3 members of the Sumiyoshi family. Killing off additional members of the Sumiyoshi family in fact works against us- we're letting the Gambino family win. In fact, we actively do NOT want to publicly reveal the identities of the remaining Sumiyoshi family members in this example- we'd just be handing those names to the Gambino family on a platter so they can kill them at night.
Indicates he's with S and doesn't want to lose. Wants G gone.
<johnnyspazz>
Can't get to get started in this game, unfortunately I have family business to attend to and can't do any analysis until I get back later tonight.
Followed by:
<Malongo>
This made me lol. You mean "mafia family business"?
I got really sick and tired reading a dozen pages ago... this is really too damn much for me to deal with while trying to pass my last semester of college... I'll contribute what I can, but I'm not going to waste my time reading all the useless repetitive and often just word-worshiping that is going on here.... once some people die off and stop being pointless and repetitive I'll keep up. I also refuse to read blatant flaming or other posts with curse words or just stupid biased finger pointing without logical reasoning behind it.
[flame flame flame]
DrH.. you got the writer symbol.. be original, stop worshiping Ver... jeez.
Ver/L/Ace... stop being redundant and pointless by posting and reposting rules and crap.. if they can't read, let the newbies suffer.. or they can ask mods.. not a hard concept.
[/flame flame flame]
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On February 15 2010 10:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 10:14 789 wrote:On February 15 2010 10:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 15 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Where else is there to go? @789 Well, as I said the 2 school of thought look like go for inactives or go for veteran players. If we go for inactives, we could combine that with clues and go for EMP... that seems to be the best way to go if we go after an inactive to me. As for veterans .. I don't personally have a leading candidate in mind there myself. Some of the stuff going on with accusations and stuff seems to be pre-existing grudges from other games. Lynching Empyrean gives us no information. Although the clue connection is solid, Ace has a strong clue AND behavioral connection imo and we learn a lot depending on how he flips. It has nothing to do with if he's a veteran or not.
Yeah I was going to mention the ace thing, but decided against it since it has been discussed quite a bit already.
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EPT
