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Incognito's TL Mafia XVI

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 19 2010 03:32 GMT
#9
I'm here.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 06:42 GMT
#150
We need to pay very close attention to whoever becomes Mayor (and to a lesser extent, Sheriff), as they can't be rolechecked. And the Mayor has triple vote power, which will become more and more powerful as the game goes on. Whoever becomes Mayor MUST explain all of their votes.


player associations for future reference:
ng5 - "The older you are the better you were."
magicbullet - singapore
abenson - in addition to the philipines appliance store stuff, "Your average D- noob zerg", canada
DoctorHelvetica - the helvetica font, a pic of flash with osl trophy, "Seiya Fighting! | vice-commander of the "loli is not a crime club" PM me or konadora to join!", united states
citi.zen - "Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.", others have covered this
ohn - it's a electronic band, or oklahoma health network, or occupational health nurse, united states
the_master - has a broken choc chip cookie pic, "[CPL]Master on team Prodigies!", canada
jayme - has an inverted color pic of a kitten, "Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.", united states (btw: you're wrong, python rocks)
cynanmachae - machae are greek gods of battle of some sort, "-I will destroyed everyone, again, in 2009. Thank you - Ma "sAviOr" Jae Yoon", canada
blue_arrow - chicken dance vid
hyperbola - squad eating a crab? plus another pic of some landscape and something I can't perceive
mystlord - "eye am the strongest"
fallen_ark - Life is precious, yet insignificant
t_co - silverlake, "Look, don't congratulate us when we buy a company, congratulate us when we sell it. Because any fool can overpay and buy a company, so long as there is money to buy it." --Henry Kravis
tredmaster - some pretty girl pics, "Bo Peep Bo Peep Oh! | <3 한승연!!! | OSUFAM FIGHTING!"
meeple - is a A small person-shaped figure used as a player's token in a board game. quote: "Into the fray my friends, may our feet be swift, our hands be sure, and our necks keep a firm grasp on our heads." + some awkward starcraft poetry
bill murray - an actor. "i got blisters on me fingers"
ghote - as others have said, a fictional detective, yellow submarine lyrics
flamewheel91 - pic of a chinese athelete?
nikoner - maybe nikon cameras? from bulgaria
Phrujbaz - "Caution! Future approaching rapidly at a rate of about 60 seconds per minute.", a blurb about the board game Go
ser aspi - both ser and aspi are acronymns for a bunch of things, france
derfboy - a lot of slang definitions for derf, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=derf, "Saboteur! Saboteur!", united states
jugan - a saint, founders of 'little sisters of the poor' - pic of guy and girl, "I is losted :/", united states
keit - a small computer company? cookie monster pic, and animated bug, sweden
kane]deth[ - canada
johannesH - lots of famous people with first name johannes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes
skronch - a student networking site to borrow stuff
dinmsab - "Tribute to the commanders of the Terran empire", malaysia
[nyc]hobbes - hobbes the tiger, hobbes the philosopher, nyc - new york city? "Calvin: Hobbes, what do you think happens when we die? Hobbes: I think we play saxophone for an all-girl cabaret in New Orleans."

zona - some odd gadget for lowering blood pressure? a site about girdles? a membrane of some sort? and shingles, like others have mentioned. a music company? so many weird things. "Member of the "Fuck yeah, Canata!" committee!" (but nothing like this will pop up, since I'm not mafia.)

I wonder if the month/day a person registered comes into play?

today's mafia specific clues:
#1:barbaric noises, lifting fists to taunt, kicked victim into the refrigerator, knife, apple, shove down throat

#2:thin knife, ran forward and stabbed, "lifeblood seeping from his wound" dragged body into the closet, cleaned up pool of blood

have clues appeared outside of passages describing the mafia member kills in past games?
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 07:00 GMT
#152
Thin knife shouts "stiletto" to me, but that doesn't seem to associate with anyone.

To be honest I think mayor/sheriff should be people who are active, but also with the emptiest/most unambiguous profiles, so that if any clues are given linking that person to the mafia, hopefully they would be more obvious. It is most imperative that if either/both the major and/or sheriff are mafia, that they be lynched ASAP.

I can't think of any ideas for the clues you guys haven't mentioned. I don't want to burn out day 1 so I'm not going to think any more about it until we have more clues.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 09:43 GMT
#158
Uh, the mafia really want to find our "blues" to kill them - our special townies shouldn't give themselves away to a mayor/sheriff that might be mafia.

And to be honest, until the endgame, trying to out our special townies is very anti-town.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 09:59 GMT
#159
Also, since we can't edit - I don't think the incarceration power really is that strong. Just 2 uses when there's 34 players in the game?

The rules say the mafia can kill themselves, but I'm not sure if they can withhold some/all of their allotted kills. (If they can, the game becomes a lot harder for the town, in my view.) Anyways, if they can't withhold their kill, the incarceration power is best used on suspected mafia, when there's an odd number of them. That way, if the number of kills is reduced, then either the incarcerated person WAS a mafia, or we had a lucky (or smart?) medic. (If we had a lucky vigilante, that would be obvious in the message.)

The strength of the sheriff/mayor come from their immunities. Actually the way I look at it is that a mafia sheriff or mayor is a much bigger boost to the mafia than a town sheriff/mayor to the town, as a mafia sheriff/mayor is immune to detective role check, can easily explain why they haven't been nightkilled despite whatever they do in the thread. The mayor triple vote is a strong power that becomes even stronger in the endgame, though.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 20:43 GMT
#282
I totally disagree about how powerful the sheriff is. The sheriff's power only works twice - if you randomly throw it out, your chance of disabling a useful power isn't that large, since power roles are a minority, and disabling a medic (who happens to guess/choose right) in my view is the biggest downside. I would also propose that incarcerating suspected mafia is as good/even better than incarcerating potential victims. But the mayor's triple vote power is dangerous, especially if we have a lot of people who don't vote, and as the game goes on and vote totals decline (and the mayor can't die to night kills, too).

No lynching is usually a bad idea because whoever votes on the lynch grants information as the mafia usually need to work together at least a little to avoid being lynch victims. In the case of day 1, lynching gives information as to the mayor, and the mayor is a very powerful role in my view, I think the lynch should go through. But then again I'm more used to mafia games where mods don't give clues, so I'm uncertain whether the value of how people voted is greater, or clues.


The newcomer thing can just simply be story, not clues. After all, story-wise the mafia have just arrived in town.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#284
Also, it's inevitable that we lynch townies along with mafia, especially early on - we should be ready for that and not hesitate to lynch because we fear lynching townies. If we no lynch, the only kills that occur (vigilante's one shot aside) will be controlled fully by the mafia, and then we'll have NO chance that day at all of getting rid of a mafia.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 02:06 GMT
#364
Holding back your suspicions does not benefit the town - if you are killed, you cannot contribute your information any longer. The mafia start the game with an information advantage, we start with numbers, and a information disadvantage. They know everything except for the knowledge of the townies who have extra powers. We have to throw out everything we're thinking until we can determine some things make more sense than others.

Also although I think it's not a good idea for the mafia to sacrifice one of their own so early, as basically each member is a 'extra life' for the mafia (so to speak) and losing one early means they have one less shield to win the game, don't automatically think they'll be obvious about everything they do. Members won't always vote in their own favor to make it less obvious, etc.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 02:27 GMT
#367
no, the mafia won't automatically kill anyone who has the best suspicions - that can help strengthen whatever suspicions that player posted.
Of course, the take it a level beyond, maybe the mafia will kill anyone with the best suspicions, because we as a town don't assume they will kill whoever has the best suspicions.

But yes, that t_co thing is fishy. I am in favor of lynching him, since at this point we don't necessarily have any better targets.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 03:03 GMT
#372
t_co, I don't like how you're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. Anyone running is running for both positions.

In any case, thanks for reminding me about the sober reality of 3 mafia kills per night...sigh. In any case, if I were mafia, I would simply kill the most active posters, since without discussion, it becomes a lot harder to figure out who the mafia are. I hope our medics keep this in mind.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 03:37 GMT
#385
presumably the vote ends 9pm est, then the new mayor has a short time to decide on who to lynch, then night.

I disagree that vote histories aren't important until we suspect an elected official is mafia. I think they're the best thing the town has, other than clues.

Also - since the mafia know who each other are, are coordinating, and would greatly benefit from having mafia members in positions where they can't be rolechecked (and get triple vote power to boot), it is highly likely at least one of the candidates is a mafia member. I actually think all candidates should go through some major scrutiny. In the worse case, it would be awful if both DrH and meeple were both mafia and were elected.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 04:12 GMT
#404
On January 20 2010 16:00 Zona wrote:
To be honest I think mayor/sheriff should be people who are active, but also with the emptiest/most unambiguous profiles, so that if any clues are given linking that person to the mafia, hopefully they would be more obvious.

Ugh, I'm still thinking along these lines. All the serious candidates so far have multiple pieces of information in their profiles and thus clues relating to them might be harder to figure out (while mine only has a quote). But I really wouldn't know what to do with a triple vote, and I don't consider the incarceration power that strong.

I am a little worried that it's possible that meeple/DrH are both mafia, and would be happier if only one of them was elected to either position. I'm wary of t_co, too, though.


"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 04:16 GMT
#405
On January 21 2010 13:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm reluctant to take too risky a move on the first day. if t_co is a townie or a blue, he is clearly very aggressive and active and that is the kind of person I want on the towns side, even if he suspects me. I think we should play it safe until we get some more information from the second day.

Okay, I think that makes sense. But if all three of you, meeple, and t_co is townie (as you seem to be assuming), then he's prime material for a night 1 kill, since that would throw suspicion on you two.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 23:48 GMT
#622
blue_arrow also announced candidacy early, but never got any votes or followed up.

I don't think the later candidates would be the early-coordination mafia candidates. While it is possible the mafia would benefit from having no candidates and have the town members accuse each of the candidates as potential mafia, the benefit of having an uncheckable mafia with bonus powers on top is too great. In any case, town members will soon be accusing each other of being mafia, even if they aren't election candidates.

I do think one of DrH, meeple, citi.zen, or t_co is likely a mafia candidate.

It's also possible the mafia tried to get both spots, but that is more risky on their part.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 21 2010 23:51 GMT
#623
Also - to those of you abstaining, I think abstaining is a bad idea if you are a town member. Even if you aren't sure on who to vote for, it's best that you leave a "paper trail" that later can be examined by the town later to determine if you had inside information (as mafia do). Abstaining is an ideal move for mafia members, as an abstention reveals nothing about what they know.

Of course mafia members can vote "against" their team - but still, having a vote down allows more analysis to be done later.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:14 GMT
#624
Regardless of whether or not meeple/DrH are in league with each other, they do agree with most of each others' arguments, and at this point (day 1) I think it's valuable to keep opposing views at the forefront, so even though I'm holding my nose at this, I think t_co should become one of the elected officials.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:17 GMT
#625
However I do not wish for t_co to lynch meeple.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:28 GMT
#627
On January 22 2010 08:16 meeple wrote:
So... I went through the last 6 pages and roughly tallied the people who either mentioned they would support lynching t_co or explicitly stated it. I also pointed out a few people who haven't said much at all about it.

t_co
Mystlord
Abenson
Flamewheel
Hobbes - presumably
DrH
789
Bill Murray
citi.zen
Jugan
t_co - hey man, he said it
tredmaster
Faronel

I do not see where Faronel has supported lynching t_co or expressed sentiment along these lines, please point out a quote to me if I have missed it.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:32 GMT
#630
t_co is a relatively open book, if he is a mafia. Right now the low-key mafia is of bigger concern to me - we have a few more days to lynch t_co if he becomes a problem, before his power becomes dominant. (And yes I do agree that the triple vote is more powerful, in fact I was the first person to express this sentiment.)

Right now I want to make sure we don't all easily agree with each other day 2, and so far for whatever reason DrH and meeple buy each others' arguments.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:58 GMT
#635
I suggest lynching Faronel. Unlike other suggestions of hidden alliances, Faronel's few actions in this game DO link him to t_co, and unlike t_co, Faronel has not contributed a lot to the thread.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 00:59 GMT
#637
Also, to those who suggested that t_co may not go with the will of the town when using his triple vote, I acknowledge this danger and thus retract my desire to have him as mayor. However, please leave him alive for day 2 at least.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:05 GMT
#641
I just want to throw this out here:

# of posts in this thread:
DoctorHelvetica : 129
meeple : 72
789 : 61
Bill Murray : 59
citi.zen : 55
t_co : 40
Jugan : 22
Zona : 21
[NyC]HoBbes : 18
flamewheel91 : 17
blue_arrow : 15
Nikoner : 12
dreamflower : 11
Incognito : 10
The_Master : 10
Ser Aspi : 10
Abenson : 9
Qatol : 9
Mystlord : 7
CynanMachae : 7
Ng5 : 6
Hyperbola : 4
QuickStriker : 4
Ace : 3
Jayme : 3
Phrujbaz : 3
tredmasta : 3
ghote : 3
Faronel : 3
keit : 2
dinmsab : 2
derfboy : 1
kane]deth[ : 1
StimiLant : 1
magicbullet : 1
Ver : 1
Jonoman92 : 1
skronch : 1
Fallen_arK : 1

Some may say this list is useful for the mafia - and while this is true, they could compile this list on their own without revealing it for the rest of the town to use. Also, this list is useful for our medics as well.

I am most wary of participants who post very little. Mafia who post a lot eventually are more likely to reveal some information about themselves. Those that post very little (but perhaps enough to avoid modkills) are the ones the town will have the hardest time reading.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:06 GMT
#643
I want him to be left alive simply because he is posting a lot. As well, someone who doesn't agree readily with everyone else is beneficial to the town, at least in the early days.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:09 GMT
#645
Faronel has 4 posts in the thread, 2 before the game started (which don't count), one which agrees with t_co's odd reasoning about killing the mayor right away, and then another asking why people are changing their votes to favor t_co. But the cap is that Faronel voted for t_co 5 hours BEFORE he agreed with t_co's reasoning, without giving a reason for it. And this has been pointed out earlier in the thread without any response on Faronel's part.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:09 GMT
#646
On January 22 2010 10:08 meeple wrote:
Very nice, I hadn't thought of that. Still you have defended t_co but not given an alternate solution. Who would you see go?


On January 22 2010 09:58 Zona wrote:
I suggest lynching Faronel. Unlike other suggestions of hidden alliances, Faronel's few actions in this game DO link him to t_co, and unlike t_co, Faronel has not contributed a lot to the thread.

"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:13 GMT
#648
If Faronel turns out town, this would actually not provide us that much information (t_co could still very well be mafia, but I would be far less suspicious in this case). But since Faronel has not been posting a lot, I feel this is a minor loss, although it is still a loss. It is unavoidable that the town will lose members in the game, though.

If Faronel turns out mafia, I think it is very incriminating for t_co.

Why Faronel over our other potentially useful candidates (t_co, or Hobbes)? Vs t_co, I've mentioned this before, but t_co is posting (and disagreeing), which is valuable in itself. Vs Hobbes, lynching Hobbes might hit mafia, but doesn't give us anything further to use. As well, clue-based lynches will become more accurate as we get more clues, so we can reserve this avenue for later.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:14 GMT
#649
I wrote a perl script to scrape post authors.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:18 GMT
#652
Since we can't edit, clarification:

I mean Faronel has 3 (not 4) posts in the thread, 1 which was before the game started.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:23 GMT
#659
If Faronel is mafia, I think t_co is worth lynching.

It is possible that Faronel has supported t_co without having previous connections to him, but more than one poster has mentioned this theory before (citi.zen, for example) about Faronel's actions in this thread, and Faronel hasn't responded in any way.

I'm against a t_co lynch because he's posting. A lynch of Faronel is a lynch of a person who isn't that active and might shed some light on t_co (although Faronel turning up townie does NOT clear t_co).

Actually, stepping back, I've just realized that my actions can be construed as me/t_co being mafia knowing that Faronel is not, but whether or not you guys think this course of action is reasonable depends on how much you think Faronel's actions are him supporting t_co or him randomly agreeing with t_co and earlier voting for him.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:28 GMT
#663
Yes, re-reading t_co's posts have made me like his arguments less, which is why I have retracted my aim of having him become mayor. Like some have said, he might not use his powers the way the town wants him to.

The core of my aim is that at this point, I would rather leave active participants alive.

We have 34 players and we have to find 7 mafia among them. t_co is a top 6 poster and is revealing a lot of information about him/herself. We have 14 players with 1-5 posts, 2 players with 0 posts. Low-participation mafia members will be a lot harder to identify.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:31 GMT
#668
Hobbes has been active in discussing the clues, though.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:35 GMT
#673
On January 22 2010 10:23 Nikoner wrote:
At first I hadn't realised that Bill Murray has been posting so much... and most, if not all, of his posts are like this:

Show nested quote +
On January 22 2010 08:24 Bill Murray wrote:
I vote for a double lynch on day 2


Which doesn't even make sense, since it will most likely lead to us lynching 2 townies, if anything...


I don't want this point to get overlooked. A lot of Bill Murray's posts have not been useful. Many one-liners, and other posts asking for medic protection since for whatever reason he thinks he is a high profile target.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:39 GMT
#683
While some of you might see the Faronel link as weak, the whole link was mentioned more than a day ago and this person has not responded to it NOR participated in ANY discussion since. I do agree that if Faronel turns out to be townie, that we gain no information, but right now I don't see any lynch candidate that gives us information no matter what the target turns out to be.

I do feel that Faronel is one of the players who is not active enough to be useful, and among such inactive players, might possibly provide us information when he is lynched.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:42 GMT
#687
In any case, I think meeple should make his (you are a he? I tire of typing his/her) own choice. That way later on his decisions can be examined, and he can't use the excuse of "I was just going along with the town's consensus" to explain away decisions.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:44 GMT
#690
Actually - at this point, it is possible to have DrH as mayor, rather than meeples - and for unexplainable reasons, it is something I am considering.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:47 GMT
#693
On January 22 2010 10:45 CynanMachae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2010 10:37 Nikoner wrote:
On January 22 2010 10:25 CynanMachae wrote:
On January 22 2010 10:23 Nikoner wrote:
At first I hadn't realised that Bill Murray has been posting so much... and most, if not all, of his posts are like this:

On January 22 2010 08:24 Bill Murray wrote:
I vote for a double lynch on day 2


Which doesn't even make sense, since it will most likely lead to us lynching 2 townies, if anything...

Most of his posts has been triple-post confusing one liners yea, but that isn't much of an argument for lynching


I never said I wanted to lynch him. Methinks you doth protest too much.

Well if was only a step forward from you suspecting him, that he might be mafia .


Well I think it was basically to negate Bill Murray's possible townie-looking high post count. Most of his many posts are junk. We don't have anything solid right now to say someone is mafia or town, only shades of gray.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 01:56 GMT
#698
we're not saying ALL your posts are junk. We're saying that the number of useful posts you have made is much lower than the 60-some odd TOTAL posts you have.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:04 GMT
#707
The more I re-read t_co's posts, the more in favor of lynching him I become.

He doesn't seem to have a single post related to analyzing clues at all.

Also, I revised my script to drop non-players and include non-posting players:

DoctorHelvetica: 129
meeple: 72
789: 61
Bill Murray: 59
citi.zen: 55
t_co: 40
Jugan: 22
Zona: 21
[NyC]HoBbes: 18
flamewheel91: 17
blue_arrow: 15
Nikoner: 12
The_Master: 10
Ser Aspi: 10
Abenson: 9
CynanMachae: 7
Mystlord: 7
Ng5: 6
Hyperbola: 4
Phrujbaz: 3
Faronel: 3
ghote: 3
Jayme: 3
tredmasta: 3
keit: 2
dinmsab: 2
magicbullet: 1
derfboy: 1
Fallen_arK: 1
kane]deth[: 1
StimiLant: 1
skronch: 1
ohN: 0
JohannesH: 0
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:05 GMT
#711
Err, scratch that. I forgot to download a new copy of the page, since my script doesn't know how to log into teamliquid =(

DoctorHelvetica: 141
meeple: 84
Bill Murray: 66
789: 61
citi.zen: 55
t_co: 40
Zona: 38
Jugan: 22
flamewheel91: 18
[NyC]HoBbes: 18
Nikoner: 17
CynanMachae: 16
blue_arrow: 15
Ser Aspi: 12
Abenson: 11
The_Master: 11
Mystlord: 8
Ng5: 6
Hyperbola: 4
Jayme: 4
Phrujbaz: 3
Faronel: 3
ghote: 3
tredmasta: 3
keit: 2
dinmsab: 2
magicbullet: 1
derfboy: 1
Fallen_arK: 1
kane]deth[: 1
StimiLant: 1
skronch: 1
ohN: 0
JohannesH: 0
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:12 GMT
#730
Here's the perl script for others to use in case I die tonight. Save the entire thread as page.htm

use strict;
use warnings;

my @players = split '\n', "Ng5
magicbullet
Abenson
DoctorHelvetica
citi.zen
ohN
The_Master
Jayme
CynanMachae
blue_arrow
Hyperbola
Mystlord
Fallen_arK
t_co
tredmasta
StimiLant
Faronel
meeple
Bill Murray
ghote
789
flamewheel91
Nikoner
Phrujbaz
Zona
Ser Aspi
derfboy
Jugan
keit
JohannesH
kane]deth[
skronch
dinmsab
[NyC]HoBbes";

open my $inp, '<', 'page.htm';
my @page_content = <$inp>;

my $page_content = join '', @page_content;

my @posts = split "style='vertical-align:middle;' alt=''>&nbsp;", $page_content;

shift @posts;

my %n_posts;

foreach my $a_player (@players) {
$n_posts{$a_player} = 0;
}
foreach my $one_post (@posts) {
(my $author) = $one_post =~ /(.*?) &nbsp/;
if (exists $n_posts{$author}) {
++$n_posts{$author};
}
}
foreach my $k (reverse sort {$n_posts{$a} <=> $n_posts{$b} } keys %n_posts) {
print "$k: $n_posts{$k}\n";
}
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:20 GMT
#746
I don't agree that t_co was entirely unbeneficial to the town, but what's done is done. In any case, it's most likely for our first lynch to be a town member, since we have so little information.

I hope our medics and detectives make wise choices, and we work with the new set of clues we get tonight. If our mods are mafia-friendly, however, the clues will point to others in the mafia, and thus can't be used with our current clues, but whatever.

I do think one of DrH, meeple, and citi.zen is likely to be mafia, though, as I still believe the benefits to the mafia in getting an elected uncheckable member is far greater than the benefits of the town being confused by accusing the other elected members of being mafia when none of them area. Actually given that citi.zen basically got no votes...one of DrH or meeple, perhaps?

I think the town should watch closely.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:32 GMT
#755
it occurred to me now that meeple/DrH are immune to nightkill, for at least until all the bodyguards die, it might be useful for them to claim what role you have.

I am not currently demanding that you guys claim, but I want to see what others think of this idea.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:35 GMT
#759
Bill, I still don't know why you think you're a prime candidate to be nightkilled, compared to the rest of the town members. I actually don't think your contribution particularly stands out. Posts like this don't really add to the discussion.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:41 GMT
#762
Well, I'm still suspicious of the election candidates. Sure it's a risk for the mafia member who runs, but on the other hand, the mafia can't stay below the radar the entire game. At least some of their members needs to get involved and actively participate, which will put those members under scrutiny. And if their participating portion of the mafia group is under scrutiny/at risk of being found out, why not grab some power along with it?
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:56 GMT
#768
I'll explain my votes now just in case this becomes important for the future.

Originally I put a vote for meeple as I'm a believer in "townies shouldn't abstain because they aren't unsure - they should leave a paper trail that can be analyzed later" and I wanted DrH as MAYOR, so wanted to see if meeple could become the top vote-getter.

I changed my vote to t_co as I was getting uncomfortable at how meeple/DrH agreed on lots of things and t_co was a likely target, and wanted to keep t_co around as he was an active participant.

I abstained because as others pointed out, some of t_co's arguments weren't coherent and that it was a risk he wouldn't use his powers in a way that would most benefit the town.

I changed my vote to meeple when he was one vote away from getting the top vote, in case anyone else wanted to switch what role DrH or meeple would get (another vote for meeple would have him as sheriff and meeple as mayor).

Actually, I would very much like explanations on how people voted, especially players who haven't even posted ONCE yet. Even if it's something as simple as "I saw his banner as putting in effort."
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 02:57 GMT
#769
On January 22 2010 11:56 Zona wrote:
I changed my vote to meeple when he was one vote away from getting the top vote, in case anyone else wanted to switch what role DrH or meeple would get (another vote for meeple would have him as sheriff and meeple as mayor).

Err, another vote for meeple would have him as sheriff and DrH as mayor
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 03:04 GMT
#770
I think everyone has a chance of being killed (not that anyone deserves medic protection moreso than others), except our elected officials - so I suggest that if anyone has any suspicions or useful ideas for the town to post them before 9pm est tomorrow.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 04:51 GMT
#804
I really think detectives or medics should NOT reveal themselves to anyone else at this point in the game, except for detectives who have confirmed who they're talking to is town (even then, a tiny godfather risk). The risk of revealing to a mafia member is there.

Actually I question the judgement of the detective that revealed him/herself to DrH, as there's no guarantee DrH is town.

I agree with this, however:
On January 22 2010 13:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
As far as meeple's voting power, I think he really needs to justify his votes.


Alternatively, we can demand that meeple reveals who he plans to vote for, then other townies adjust their votes so that his vote is effectively strength one.

For example, if players A and B are lynch candidates, and meeple wants to vote for A, have him vote for A, but also switch one NORMAL voter from A to B, then meeple has effectively added one vote to A (as A gets +3 -1 vote, and B gets +1 vote, so the difference between them is greater by one). Of course if there's 3 people up for lynch it gets more complicated.

Quickstriker, I would prefer if you didn't post in this thread - there's already so much to read and re-read when we want to re-examine things.

Finally, if there were NO medics - then if I were mafia, I would want to eliminate the people who are generating the most discussion, regardless of who they are suspicious of, just to stop the town from generating more information. However, since there are medics, the mafia need to guess who will be medic-protected and adjust accordingly. And they also can't eliminate all town members who discuss a lot, because then any remaining active players will be exposed as mafia. Still, I hope the medics keep this in mind.

There are some methods for coordination that don't require revealing. For example, one idea is that detectives rolecheck the player below them on the player list. If town, that would give them someone to talk to. However, I'm not convinced that using the rolecheck early is the way to go (it might be).
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 04:58 GMT
#806
I don't think the downside of incarcerating a blue is that much, until the point where medics, for whatever reason, become very good at predicting hits. Also, if you announce you are incarcerating someone in the thread, then the mafia know not to even attempt to kill them.

There is also a second use for incarceration, that is to incarcerate potential mafia when there's an odd number of mafia left, where if you are correct, kill power will go down by one. But with medics around, we won't be sure whether or not who you targetted was mafia. So using it for protection is probably a better idea, but do NOT announce beforehand.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 05:09 GMT
#809
You know what, it may be useful for detectives to use at least one of the role checks early.

Right now, if they get a successful clue check, it's hard for them to convince the town of it without outing themselves, since we've already discussed the first set of clues ad nauseam without any conclusions. However, if they check someone and aren't too unlucky, they'll hit a town member and then can share with them safely (although the town member they contact will not necessarily be able to trust the detective). And if we establish a method of choosing which player to check (i.e. check the player below them in the player list) then they won't waste/overlap checks.

But the risk of that method is that if a mafia member is not contacted, then they will know the person above them is not a detective. Hmm. More to think about.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 05:12 GMT
#811
Okay - upside to some regular method of choosing who to check - no wasted checks.
Downside - risk revealing to mafia which players are NOT detectives.

Or, detectives can choose on their own who to check. In this case they reveal nothing to the mafia, but multiple people checking the same target will "waste" some checks. Although this might not entirely be a waste depending on how the game plays out.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#813
Yes, I totally agree that detectives should reveal themselves to who they check if the check turns up town, the godfather risk is low. If detectives find more than one medic, yes they should coordinate. But the medic needs to be careful that mafia members aren't fishing to find who the medic is.

At this point without coordination, a medic protection overlap is possible, but remember that even if medic protection was evenly spread out they won't necessarily choose who the mafia will target. I don't think that we can create a plan that will really guarantee that a medic will stop a hit at this point in the game.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that detectives should use some of their role checks early in the game to build a base of people they can talk to privately.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#814
Yes - but if the detective has checked someone to be town, the detective can reveal him/herself safely to the person he/she has checked.
(Of course, the person being revealed to needs to be skeptical, as the "detective" who contacted them might be a mafia member.)
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#818
I agree it is a risk for a mafia to claim to be a detective, but just because it's a risk doesn't mean we should assume they won't try it.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 23:20 GMT
#905
This should be obvious, but I want repeat this again just in case:

Medics, do not protect DrHelvetica or meeple, as they have bodyguard protection.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 22 2010 23:42 GMT
#908
On January 19 2010 10:22 Incognito wrote:
This is a semi-open setup. Roles will be disclosed, but role counts will remain hidden.

"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 23 2010 11:32 GMT
#1036
hey I was planning on reading/posting after the MSL finals, but the thing stretched out a lot longer than I expected (in a bad way) and I have a very sour taste in my mouth and will forgo posting until later.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 01:50 GMT
#1210
Alright, I'm really late back to this party. There's not much original clue analysis I can bring to the table being so late, but there's one thing I want to mention. We don't know the style in how incognito is creating clues, since this is his first game. Looking over all the other games in the mafia forum, there's been two primary styles in creating clues. One style, was that a list of adjectives was made from player's profiles, and clues drawn from that. If this is how our mod does things, our current approach works well.

Unfortunately, this is the minority. The majority of past games had mods create a "persona" or "character" based on an amalgam of a player's profile, then create clues from that persona. (So one degree removed.) And there were some crazy connections that I don't think anyone would have guessed correctly. For example, if I wasn't reading too quickly and missing things, one game had a player with a lion in their profile, and the mod decided "Lion = Hunter" to create the "persona" for the player. But then the mod went further and made this a Hunter class from WoW, which made all the clues unguessable from my point of view, impossible to connect to the lion in the profile.

I really don't know what to do with clues for now. Thin knife = scalpel seems to be a FAIR clue. If the olympic thing really was a clue and not a red herring, it seems like it would be too obvious? I hope we somehow hit at least one mafia sometime in the future so we can try to see which clues are related and get a sense of how the mods are creating these clues. As others have mentioned, reading people by their interactions and votes is probably BETTER right now.


As for Bill the detective dying, it might have been someone he talked to, but it could have been luck too - the other game lost the detective to the day 1 lynch! To me it looks like the mafia decided that many of the active players would be protected and went for targets they thought likely had no protection. I disagree that the bodyguard is a large loss. A bodyguard is a loss ONLY if we're sure the elected officials are town members. If we aren't sure I'd actually prefer that the elected officials lose all of their protection.


Don't take comfort in the relatively large numbers of town members alive - we likely lose members at a rate of 3 a night, at least for now, each day only have a CHANCE of getting rid of 1 mafia (with the exception of the 2 double lynches). So our buffer is not that large.



I am in favor of double lynching, as this increases the proportion of deaths that are not caused solely by mafia, and might (or might not) bring the day of lower mafia KP closer. I'm really concerned about the high mafia KP right now.


I still haven't decided who to vote on - but since I don't have any solid ideas as to who might be mafia based on interaction, I'll choose between the three sorta-solid clue connections.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 01:58 GMT
#1211
kane also has no posts since the game started?
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 02:03 GMT
#1212
In case it becomes important later on, for the record, I only exchanged one PM (one each direction) with Bill which contained no information at all (well he did beg for medic protection in private as well), as I assumed he was just a silly paranoid player.

Since 789 asked for the postcounts, here they are. I stopped them because I didn't want people posting crap for the sake of getting a higher postcount to look more active in these. But yeah, some players still have virtually no posts.

DoctorHelvetica: 217
meeple: 169
789: 129
citi.zen: 81
Bill Murray: 79
Zona: 59
Abenson: 48
flamewheel91: 43
t_co: 41
Jugan: 33
StimiLant: 32
ghote: 24
[NyC]HoBbes: 23
Ng5: 21
blue_arrow: 20
CynanMachae: 19
Nikoner: 19
Ser Aspi: 18
Mystlord: 17
The_Master: 12
JohannesH: 8
Phrujbaz: 7
keit: 7
Hyperbola: 6
Faronel: 5
Jayme: 5
tredmasta: 4
magicbullet: 3
dinmsab: 3
derfboy: 1
Fallen_arK: 1
kane]deth[: 1
skronch: 1
ohN: 0
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 02:27 GMT
#1218
On January 25 2010 11:18 dreamflower wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2010 11:08 Nikoner wrote:
I abstain from voting for a lynch today.

I vote against a double lynch tomorrow.


For the most part, this hasn't been a problem, but for future reference: There's no need to vote against a double lynch. As long as you're voting but don't vote in favor of a double lynch, it's assumed that you're voting against the double lynch. So, there's no need to mention it explicitly.

I hope you set more explicit rules. While DrH clearly retracted his vote in favor double lynching, citi.zen's retraction is debatable, his post could also be interpreted as abstaining from voting for a person, and not retracting both his vote on a person and on double-lynching.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 02:33 GMT
#1220
Duh, I somehow missed that post in the thread. Nevermind.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
January 25 2010 02:43 GMT
#1222
Man, one thing I really want is for all voters to post why they voted the way they did. If we're going to focus away from clue-based mafia hunting (since it hasn't done us much good so far), this kind of reasoning is the minimum required.

Town members, even those with blue powers, need to post more (and never lie, although it's fine to deny knowledge and post suspicions even when you're not sure), so that mafia can't get by without posting. Then mafia who do post might eventually slip up by posting contradictions or lies that they had to make to keep their identity secret.


Since I've asked for people to explain their votes, I might as well start.

I came to the thread pretty close to the deadline as I was working all afternoon on other things so it was too late to really be influencing outcomes. But since this is something that's a good ploy for mafia members to use, I'll do my best to get in early in the next discussion. I ended up stacking an unnecessary extra vote on kane just to see if the olympic clue really was that straightforward, but it wasn't. I do think we should focus away from clue-based mafia hunting for now.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 13:40 GMT
#1772
gg. I had a feeling I was going to die night 2 when the mafia got all 3 kills on night 1, as I had the feeling that the mafia was thinking one step ahead of the medics.

Day 2 the medics would be thinking "hey we protected the actives but that didn't do anything" and thus would choose someone else and the mafia was thinking one level deeper that the medics were thinking that. But looking at the night actions I guess I just wasn't active enough on day 2. The MSL finals really put me on tilt and soured me to TL in general for that time. Since you guys say the mafia wasn't working that well as a team, who was submitting the kills?

Good calls by citi.zen, I'm astounded how accurate you were and especially how confident you were. I wasn't close to as confident as you on the guilt of DrH and Mystlord, and I wasn't that suspicious of the others on your list. I was incredibly suspicious of DrH because of his lack of stated suspicion of the other elected officials such as meeple, which I thought was a way of deflecting suspicion from other elected officials (like himself). His revealing of a DT contacting him was another thing that really raised my suspicions as well. Cynan has my reasoning when I threw everything I thought of the game at him after he revealed he was a DT to me, but the gist of it is that a town mayor shouldn't automatically trust the contact (since the DT was claiming to the mayor without revealing the mayor's role, which would be a way of verifying the DT's authenticity), and if the DT was real, the DT shouldn't have contacted the Mayor anyways, as the Mayor's alignment was unknown. I don't think it was a wise decision on Bill's part. The third reason why DrH struck me as mafia was that he selectively ignored certain clue discussions on the town part. It might have been better to acknowledge them as probably but "not strong", then later when your posts are examined this entire "blank" (so to speak) in your posts wouldn't stick out so much.

Mystlord's support of DrH without much stated reasoning was what made me suspicious of him.

When citi.zen asked me "[DrH] trusts you a lot [to be telling you the DT check of citi.zen], is the feeling mutual?" I first was wary that you were mafia with DrH as I thought that was a rather odd question to ask, to feel me out if I was really suspicious of DrH. So I thought if you were mafia, I'd like you guys to think I wasn't too suspicious of DrH and thus get rid of me early on, although I ended up dying the next night anyways. I ended up trying to feel out a lot of other people in regards to how they felt about DrH to see if I could get support that way to get rid of him. Still, that turned out well, I suppose, as DrH's odd actions on citi.zen backfired a lot.

In general I don't think the mayor/sheriff roles benefit the town (by the very existence of the roles) more than the mafia, as the inability to be rolechecked and the ability to avoid nightkills early on are very good cover for mafia, but less beneficial to town-aligned elected officials, as the REST of the town cannot necessarily believe that the elected officials are truly town. The only town position to truly benefit from the mayor/sheriff roles would be the DT - if the DT became an elected official and found a mafia early by role/cluecheck, then claiming or heavily pushing a mafia for lynch would help establish his townie or DT credentials, then both the DT and the rest of the town would benefit from an elected DT.

Although I do think DrH played fairly well, I don't think he used the Mayor position to his maximum advantage, especially since he garnered suspicion so quickly.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 13:52 GMT
#1774
Jugan, your claiming of credit would be so much more believable if your posts in the last few days weren't so idiotic and irrational. Good thing your actions were easily discernible as idiotic and irrational even if you were mafia, so the town didn't have to waste a lynch on you. Even as someone who isn't privy to what you may or may not have said by PM, your claims strike me as entirely unbelievable due to what you've said in the thread.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 13:55 GMT
#1776
Btw Mystlord, it's a good thing that the clues were written about you not from your point of view. Clues are written for the general audience to interpret, not so that people who would have to somehow put themselves in your shoes to discover what they were like.

And actually the mist/Mystlord difference I think was a fair twist of interpretation so the clue wouldn't be immediately obvious to the town, although in the end the sum of evidence against you didn't help things.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 14:05 GMT
#1779
Oh, and t_co is permabanned, "by request" apparently. I wonder what's up with him?

I did to some extent mirror his "lynch the elected officials" sentiment, but his subsequent jumping around in his arguments really soured my view of him. I still did feel early on when he was posting a lot it would be helpful to the town, but eventually it degenerated which was much less helpful.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 14:07 GMT
#1780
And I was total garbage as to clue interpreting. I didn't even notice the DrH/scalpel thing until meeples pointed it out to me by PM.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 01 2010 17:08 GMT
#1786
On February 02 2010 00:54 Phrujbaz wrote:
I facepalmed the instant I read DrH's defense of me in the tea clue. I knew I was going to be dead the instant DrH got caught.

Stuff like this makes me wonder if mafia would be more successful if they brainwashed themselves into not remember who their teammates are...
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 04 2010 08:19 GMT
#1857
Yes, as I was pointing out during the game, wasn't there at least one past game where the clues were totally impossible to interpret? The lion->hunter->"WoW Hunter" twist that made it totally useless and counterproductive to try interpreting clues at all, among other examples?
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
February 04 2010 08:45 GMT
#1859
Yeah, if it's public knowledge that mafia are much more likely to appear among those with more fleshed out profiles, that's a huge disadvantage for them. I'm going to add more stuff to my profile too.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-06 19:41:48
February 06 2010 19:40 GMT
#1885
oops wrong thread
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-06 19:41:56
February 06 2010 19:40 GMT
#1886
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-06 19:42:02
February 06 2010 19:41 GMT
#1887
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
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