Mini Mafia 2

On November 27 2009 13:59 L wrote:
Ace, can you get back to rating people so that we have flamebait to keep the forums interesting? Thx.

On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.

There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.

Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.

So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.

1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo


2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.


%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron.

On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia.

On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself.

Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading.

On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:

I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why?

First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side?

Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill.

I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote.

On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.

If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.


Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.

On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote:
Who's putting blind faith in him?

Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him.

If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good.

Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.

There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.

So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?

I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.

Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.

On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote:

A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like.

If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb.

On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote:


1) There's a rather large reason.

2) We will be able to find out if he is.

Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out.
Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle.

Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace?

Normally you aren't so short sighted .

On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:

Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge.

On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote:

I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line.

Sup with that, bro?

On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.

On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall.

Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum.

On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later.

On January 07 2010 12:44 Chezinu wrote:
Malongo you can save yourself...

On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD

On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.

@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."

For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players.

Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp

On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now.

I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen.

On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote:


Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one.

I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one.

On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.

Can't have it both ways, champ.

On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?

I don't remember ever seeing that logic before.

On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:


Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed.

Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'.

See the difference?

On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:

All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game.

But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you.

On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote:

Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town.

On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote:
I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue..

On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote:
As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.

1) It's easy as hell to confirm.

2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.

3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.

The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target.

On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:

Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game..

On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else?

If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy.

Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way.

Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through!

On January 11 2010 14:30 L wrote:
Yo, bro, you gotta be more active if you're mafia. Your zero content made it obv you were mafs. Shoulda jumped on the 'rape mikey' train.

On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:
Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win.

On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:

Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.

On January 11 2010 15:42 Malongo wrote:
Imo this was a little underbalanced against mafia. Well they didnt play that good either.

On January 11 2010 15:53 L wrote:

Because it was pretty obvious that the only people who would be willing to go so far as to campaign to kill the guy would either:

1) Know he IS lying.
or
2) Be fearful mafia.

Scrutinizing is fine; I pretty much vomited the fact that he wasn't the medic into the open during day 1. Killing the guy, however, prior to him taking a single anti-town action is way off into crazyland. There's no incentive for a green townie to rail for his lynch unless you were heavily trying to metagame, which wasn't an explanation anyone brought up. People simply talked about prior metagaming regarding early claims. nemY also hung himself this way.

Judge and I talked about you either being a vanilla townie trying to trap people with your push against judge, or being a mafia. When you were unrepentant, you kinda sealed your own fate.

I'll be honest though, between you and RoL, I was certain one was mafia. I wasn't 100% certain of which, though, which I remarked to Zato when he asked me for comments regarding hitting you. In the end, I think I made a rather large error in my analysis by ignoring the reaction of the legit medic to judge's claim, but it all worked out because chez and zato fucking raped this shit.

On January 11 2010 17:00 L wrote:


Exactly.

It isn't enough that you think judge is lying. You need to think he's mafia and stands to gain something from lying.

Additionally, how could I have been batting blind if my switch from criticism to support was admittedly when judge told me the content of his plan during day 1.

What godfather would volunteer himself for a CONFIRMATION lynch and call a huge amount of town attention to himself? If judge was mafia, he asked for a DT check and would be killed according to his plan. If he was godfather, my slight modification to his plan would have removed his trade for our DT and left him essentially self-raped for no benefit. If he was town, we got a confirmed townie pool to claim to.

So why would I want to have him killed day 1?

On January 11 2010 17:08 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:


You're an idiot. I stand by my statement that you're an incompetent mafia player, now I'm adding in you're just plain incompetent.

I'll ask again.

If I'm such a bad player, and I'm such a hinderance for the town.

Why the NIGHT KILL jackass?

Usually mafia only nightkill those who they feel are a threat to them in the town.

But funny, according to you, I seem to be useless and the reason town almost lost.

Hmmmm.... flawed logic much?

So again.

GG.

On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:


No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.





Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this:

Judge claimed Medic on Day 1.

Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then.






What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role?

On January 12 2010 05:52 L wrote:
Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia.

I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list.

The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed.

No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance?

On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:


Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey.

You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move.