On January 11 2010 06:05 Zato-1 wrote:Okay, so. Tonight, I'm hitting Ace. Why? Here's a list of Ace's posts from the last mafia game I played, in which he was mafia: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On August 20 2009 10:54 Ace wrote:
o shit wtf 5 hours passed fast On August 20 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
can someone update me on everything that happened? I skimmed and saw people suggesting to lynch me? On August 20 2009 11:03 Ace wrote:
ok so Sato snitched on himself lulz
Medics aren't informed of prots? :/ That sucks.
Vigi shouldn't hit anyone until they are solid the person is red. On August 20 2009 11:10 Ace wrote:
:/
Well enough about me, what are we doing right now? On August 20 2009 11:23 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
zato was the one that brought up Satoux That pretty much ups Zeto's innocence. If he was really anti-town I doubt he'd want to cast a spotlight on his own Mafia ally. Especially in a game this small. Other than this there aren't even any patterns yet are there? Day 1 votes don't seem too telling. On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. On August 20 2009 11:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:30 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. It would seem rather out of place, more than anything. I don't particularly think Chezinu was a good hit, unless there was reason to think he was blue. Chezinu drew a lot of attention to himself, he seemed more beneficial to the mafia alive than dead. I understand what you're saying but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Chezinu seemed normal :/ Either way I guess the good news is no one super valuable has been killed yet (lol sorry Chez) On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself  well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:42 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. You're really worried that I voted before posting my reasoning? Maybe I voted while figuring out exactly what to write because it's a speed game? no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? On August 20 2009 11:56 Ace wrote:
also Midori too, I didn't even realize he voted. On August 20 2009 12:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:57 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? As a matter of fact, I would. I can defend myself by saying that my behavior against infundibulum has been consistent with the previous days, as I have previously said. infundibulum did a great job roleclaiming to the town too, especially telling Qatol at the last minute. To give my reasonings again, I have been moving around votes all game to get discussion going. I started the lynch on Satoux, which helps proves my innocence. Pyrry has laid out some important information pertaining to this as well. I can understand if you want to think Pyrry and I as the two remaining mafia, as that would make sense, but that's simply not the case. I cannot speak on behalf of other people though. Qatol's posts in the thread annoy me to death, Pyrry is unusually quiet (of course without clues he's nearly useless). The Sato thing is over and done with but it does look good for you. I'm just saying you can't go around starting bandwagons, and when they turn out wrong act like it's just an oops moment. One of you guys has to pay. @Midori: Ok be suspicious of me but I didnt get a medic killed did I. On August 20 2009 12:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? I can understand your suspicion of foolish, qatol, and myself at this point but why Zato, if I may ask? He changed his vote a lot but that last minute switch from me to infun wouldn't seem like something a mafia would do since infun looked dead already and a mafia would have known infun was innocent. Which would actually be a good Mafia defense don't you think? "I can't be Mafia, my vote didn't even change anything!" On August 20 2009 12:12 Ace wrote:Qatol if Infundibulum was a Medic how could he safely make that claim to you? He'd never know your role On August 20 2009 12:18 Ace wrote:
@Vivi: How has he sacrificed his own? You guys all said Sato pretty much told on himself so how is that relevant? On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. On August 20 2009 12:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:20 Zato-1 wrote:
By 'inactive', I mean unhelpful in finding mafia. @Ace we've only found 1, what do you want me to do magically pull one out my hat? On August 20 2009 12:26 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:23 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. I convinced Zato to vote for infundibulum at the last minute. I do not believe we should be looking at Zato, but rather other people. just because you did that doesn't mean he's town aligned. On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. On August 20 2009 12:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:30 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. Wagon's a bit big for the remaining of mafia, don't you think? 2 mafia left 3 people claiming to be working together being coordinated by rolechecks. So the conclusion is mafia? Yea because it's the SAME people that got it wrong the first time. You mean to tell me you guys shouldn't be looking at your little group for the answers as to where the suspicions should go? On August 20 2009 12:32 Ace wrote:
and look at the shit you did now On August 20 2009 12:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:34 Zato-1 wrote:
If we have a Vigi... you need to hit Foolishness. He is most definitely mafia. .... You can easily categorize all of his posts in two categories: Chaff: He talks but essentially says nothing. Posts # 1 through 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 are of this kind. Guilt Trips: Since he's basically committed to nothing all game, he weighs down on those who have done something whenever they were wrong. Posts #7, 11, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23 are of this kind. Ace's strategy was to sit back, feign activity, and pounce on Town members whenever they made a mistake. Now, take a look at Ace's posts in the current game: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.
There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.
Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.
So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.
%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron. I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment: 1.) vivi57 2.) nemy 3.) RebirthofLegend And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end. Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them. On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote:
First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.
Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.
Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.
If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment. On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays). On January 07 2010 04:15 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading. I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^ On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote. I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy. On January 07 2010 04:35 Ace wrote:
BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now. On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go? On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote:
what exceptional information? I really want to know this. On January 07 2010 06:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town? Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion. On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. On January 07 2010 07:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote:Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan. Show nested quote +Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. Show nested quote +
There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic. Show nested quote +
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Did the last game have this rule set? I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever. Show nested quote +
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying. As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game? On January 07 2010 07:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote:On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^ And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats. On January 07 2010 08:59 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote:There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle. Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted  . Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here. Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic. On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote:
you must be a salesman in real life On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. On January 07 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. Does him being blue even matter? He hasn't done anything suspicious at all. And I don't have an argument for anyone else. Seriously Judge is the only person that seems suspect to me. On January 07 2010 09:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro? why would I want RoL killed again? How is him echoing me even relevant? :/ On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. On January 07 2010 09:52 Ace wrote:
I can see just fine. Someone claims to be a Medic Day 1 and I'm supposed to just sit back and be like omg fine!
Right Judge. Right ^_^ On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge.
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. On January 07 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:
indeed L.
Except I didn't pick because neither of them seem more fishy to me than Judge.
On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum. But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
thats nice Judge. But like I've said before you shouldn't be surprised I'm not going for fake Medic claims. On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote:
L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course) On January 07 2010 10:32 Ace wrote:
That voting thread sure is something else. On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote:
I know L is laughing very hard right now On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game. On January 07 2010 12:48 Ace wrote:? are you serious? so you just flip flop voted multiple times, and now if Malongo dies and flips innocent you can say he had a chance to "save himself". lol interesting really. On January 07 2010 13:00 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD seriously I would On January 07 2010 13:09 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players. I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat. And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection. On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. On January 07 2010 13:18 Ace wrote:
Not at all. More like the random out of the blue bandwagon that you guys put on Malongo was the wrong call. On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen. I don't. 5 out of 12 possible votes and not one of them Mafia? I highly doubt it. Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects: Judge, obviously ^_^ Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle On January 07 2010 13:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote:On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one. I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one. I'd actually rather we have had a no lynch. I was already against the Malongo band wagon from jump and since he didn't really do much his death wasn't going to reveal anything major. Well now that he's dead everyone that voted for him is rightfully going to be questioned. On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ. I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2. On January 08 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
The bandwagon at Judge was very justified: A guy claiming medic on day with a "wait and let me live" approach vs a guy who got one of his posts randomly plucked out of no where and accused.
Yes, the votes against Judge were so unjustified. Either way Day 2 someone is going to have to answer some tough questions. On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses. On January 08 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu.
However at this point Chez I'm pretty sure you know you're like, almost guaranteed a lynch (seriously after seeing judge RC the first day and take shit, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to find a way to convince people). Also the other reason I don't really believe you is because on the Day 1 vote you flip flopped so many times that you came off as Mafia. Seriously, why would you flip flop if you wanted to save Malongo or Judge? Just abstain if that's the case.
And yea I read your PM Chezinu, but I'm not helping you get MikeyMoo killed unless you really flip DT. Either way it's really funny how every single time someone is "on the radar" ANOTHER person comes from left field with some new info and knocks shit out of whack.
After the Chezinu/MM debacle is cleared up we'll move on to past transgressions. On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
On January 08 2010 22:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town. Yea I was (still am) outraged at you. But there was no need to role claim. I mean seriously, is everyone going to roleclaim now when we have a GF in the game? Come on man, you just saw Chez and his nonsense. I don't even think you would have gotten put on the chopping block today since chez just pulled that stunt and that path gives us a faster way to finding Mafia. On January 08 2010 22:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote:
I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue.. how many times do I have to tell you if you didn't pull that stupid voting stunt on Day 1 I would have been more inclined to believe you? You said you didn't want to kill Judge or Malongo, told them to save themselves yet kept your vote flip flopping instead of simply abstaining. If you saw someone do that do you honestly think you'd believe they were legit? On January 09 2010 05:07 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote:
As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.
1) It's easy as hell to confirm.
2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.
3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.
The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target. Vigi isn't exactly easy to confirm, check the rules ^_^ But either way it only looks bad because Chezinu DT claimed first. No point in mass roleclaims on the Second Day of the game when there isn't even anything to panic about. On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. On January 09 2010 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game.. I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet. On January 09 2010 14:40 Ace wrote:
You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^ On January 09 2010 15:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else? If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy. Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way. Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through! Ok I understand why you're for killing MM...but how does that confirm Judge or even L? On January 09 2010 20:30 Ace wrote:
Oh...oh my god! Brilliant!
Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt!
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Yeah, that's a lot of posts alright. But, I've done some work and categorized them for you again: Chaff posts where he makes comments and maybe triest to set a mood or give an idea of his thoughts: Posts #1 through 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51 and 52. Posts with content: Posts #34, 36, 37, 38, 42 and 43 are essentially guilt trips; someone did a mistake, and he's calling them out on it. Posts #8, 13, 15, 18, 23 and 39 are posts in which he justifies attempts to lynch Judge for his day 1 roleclaiming. Now for the analysis: - There's nothing suspicious about making Chaff posts. Everyone makes them, some more than others. - Guilt Trip posts are of a different kind; when the Town makes a mistake, instead of trying to pick up the broken pieces and move on to the next course of action, Ace focuses on kicking the parties responsible for the mistake while they're down. This is done to lower Town morale and attempt to make Town players bitter, and recriminate themselves about who's responsible for what- while he sits back and watches. - His posts against Judge are probably just the fact that his dislike for day 1 roleclaiming happened to coincide with a daring Town initiative for getting organized. Two birds with one stone there (personal satisfaction & lynching a potential Town organizer), and he can just blame his zeal against day 1 roleclaiming for persecuting Judge. - What seems to be the connecting trend between Ace's posts? The only thing he's actually committed to, was persecuting Judge, and for a pretty bad reason at that ("I think he's lying about being a Medic, so he has to be mafia"). Other than that, he's content to sit back, make a lot of posts with little substance, and punish Town members when they make a wrong call. Does this seem like a game-winning plan for Town to you? 'cause it looks a lot more like a mafia trying to sow dissent among the Town while appearing to be active, to me. For this reason, tonight I am going to kill Ace.
I have actually thought this for a while. I hope you are right. I thought the GF was either L, Ace, or Judge. Which is why I thought Judge was a good target for Day 1, it made things a lot less confusing down the road.
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