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On October 30 2009 00:22 Amber[LighT] wrote:Up until today she's put more effort into this game than you did. All of a sudden you want to analyze the town and actually take part in discussion. Voting for Vivi is more than just "I'm following sugiura," but when you think about it, let's take out of the people that aren't doing much to contribute. These people are worse than inactives, and sometimes mafia will have about 50% of their team play the inactive role so they stay under the radar. This is such a typical case especially when the mayor and pardoner are not red (which I believe is the case in this game). I'm not saying because you didn't post in the past two day cycles that you're opinion is worthless to me, but let's try to take to take a logical approach and separate the town into groups..... ugh i was talking to my boss about something and completely lost my train of thought with this. Let me get back to this when it pops in my head again 
I like how effort = posting. You know who really put the most effort into this game? Ace. What happened to Ace? Oh right, he's dead. And you had a hand in that.
And why are you comparing me to her? And why haven't you pointed me to the discussion that got you to vote for Vivi?
But please, do try to separate the town into groups. I'd like to hear what you come up with.
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On October 30 2009 01:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +I thought he claimed to you because he protected you last night and got a message confirming that he protected you from something. Has anyone else claimed to you, by the way?
Uh, a DT has claimed to me after I asked a DT to check me. This was pretty obvious in my last post. I didn't really want to reveal the confirmed existence of the second DT, but he claimed to me based on the fact that he checked me on day 1 and turned up veteran.
And the part about the medic? About him claiming to you because the facts added up?
On October 30 2009 01:04 L wrote:
I'd have REALLLLLLLLLY have preferred to not make this information public, but if I die to some highly suspicious wagoning from people who have been largely inactive until the last 2 pages, I would fucking go on tilt.
Then you'll know how Ace feels.
What information are you making public? Stuff that you said is really obvious in your last post?
All I've ever wanted is some direction from you. Simple, really. You're working with some DT and a Medic (at least) and pre-picking someone to check and kill to confirm you. All this despite the fact that the DT has already claimed to you and therefore trusts you. I sure hope you manage to pick someone non-blue on this attempt.
Furthermore, you haven't voted for a lynch once. Why is this?
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On October 30 2009 01:26 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Ace made the mistake that he himself scrutinizes other players for in other mafia games all the time.
His effort was counter-productive to the town. Did you read what he was posting? How useful was it to the town for him to insult all of us for not agreeing with his plan?
I'm comparing you to her because you two should be compared. Why can't I do that?
I read what Ace was posting. It wasn't counter-productive to the town. It was just alienating and annoying. But it certainly had it's uses.
I said you can't compare us because I asked you why she got to call the shots for your vote. You voted long before I started talking. I guess you can compare us if you really want to, it just isn't viable for what I asked and merely serves as a distraction.
I'd still like you to organize us into groups. I'd also like you to explain what information we got from Ace's lynch.
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On October 30 2009 02:07 L wrote:
As for you, you've voted to abstain during the Ace vote, which is odd because you're all over everyone else's balls about how that vote turned out. You could have easily made the case for someone else over him and tried to actually vote for them. I actually took a side and put something on the line, you stayed silent. Why is this? Why is it that you try to criticize me for things you're double guilty of and fail to read my points?
You mean I don't get to use what happened with Ace as evidence because I stayed silent? Alrighty, if you say so. And you can certainly point the finger at me of doing some of the things I'm accusing you of. I'll admit to that, and that's fair. Although you really haven't done that until right now, and it's not really a defense of yourself. I'll defend myself when there's a case against me.
You took a side you say? You put something on the line? No you didn't. Your "side" was that Ace was playing like ass. You didn't put anything on the line.
I'm not failing to read your points (though I did get confused as to who claimed to you by adding up the facts. My bad.) I just don't believe you. This medic and DT friend of yours cannot be confirmed. And if that's the case, why reveal them now? Now the mafia knows they have less time than they might have thought? I don't see how that's useful. What were the other reasons for revealing the medic and a DT are in your pocket? I must have failed to read that point.
On October 29 2009 23:46 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2009 22:24 L wrote:Okay, so someone asked me why I claimed, and I dealt with the question best to my knowledge, while talking to the medic in PMs. Here's a transcript of what was said. Feel free to ask me anymore questions. Original Message L :
Different situation today gave me a different goal. Because I was claimed to, and I now have the ability to form a group of confirmed townies. In order to confirm myself I needed to reach out and ask to see if a second DT was in the game. The only alternative would have been to out you to the public to get blue names, but the problem would be that you would die in the process.
At this point I don't want to die for the above reasons whereas before I wanted to get hit. Now that they know i'm going to take 2 days of full kp, i'm almost unhittable from a mafia perspective which gives me enough protection to stay alive while a DT finishes their sanity check and then confirms my role. At that point I become a mouth for every blue in the game, and we win relatively quickly.
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Original Message Medic:
WIth that logic, what was the point in claiming Vet now? You got protected, you just needed to say you were protected. Not that you were a vet (which means they won't try and hit you again most likely) While the plan prior gave them incentive to try and kill you.
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Original Message L:
The reasoning is pretty obvious; The job of a vet is to get hit. Claiming when we don't achieve the goal that we set out to achieve under conditions when I know i'm going to get hit (I've been hit on day 2 or day 3 for five games in a row) completely invalidates the role.
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Original Message Medic:
I still think you should of role claimed earlier and don't get why you didn't, I don't get the reasoning. Even if Ace said he checked Judge, before he even came forward with that I think I said the Vet should of role called then. Read from the bottom upwards. I haven't asked the medic if I can post this, so I've taken the liberty of slightly changing his statements so that its harder to figure out who he is from the writing style. The meaning and content of his questions, however, are not changed, and besides for the single bold note I put in, my messages, however, are directly copy/pasted. Why did you leave out the most recent message(s)?
Did you ever answer this question?
Also, you've confirmed a third DT, not a second one, unless you think Sugiura is a liar.
On October 30 2009 02:25 Amber[LighT] wrote:
After the night post came out I wasn't exactly thinking "Hey I wonder what Scamp would do in this situation" because I didn't care. You didn't give me a reason to care up until maybe a page ago.
This is a very good point. Too bad it's in no way related to anything I asked you. Your hostility is misguided and it's obvious questioning you is getting nowhere. Now get busy organizing people into groups.
RoL what are you doing?
And I'm away for 4 hours. 
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I don't believe Vivi is mafia. I also don't believe Chezinu is mafia. I also don't believe I can get people to vote for L. So I need someone else to go after.
So we've got about 2 and a half hours, I have no idea who's on and who's going to be able to change their votes, and I don't like either of the people on the chopping block. I haven't seen any good reasoning to lynch either of these people. I mean, Vivi and Redtooth are apparently linked, and I've seen much better evidence against Redtooth than Vivi. Chezinu has basically been inactive this whole time, something I know a little about, but there are players who have been active and then have become inactive for no explicable reason.
So please convince me, somehow, that one of these two people need to be lynched.
Also convince me that Pyrr has the town's best interests at heart.
I also don't think L is going to vote.
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I think that there is a possibility that Chez is mafia. I just think that there isn't any proof. Though if he is mafia I guess Pyrr is a better leader than I thought.
My thoughts on Vivi and Chez are pretty much the same as yours. I really don't know why Vivi is the one to go after over Redtooth. But if Sugi isn't lying, as you said, then I guess it really doesn't matter.
If it has to be one over the other, I'd go with Vivi simply because we get some information from his death, whereas with Chez we really just get his death and that's it.
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Wow. Well done you guys. I certainly didn't call that.
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Hey all you DTs! I have no idea who you are, but I think you should check L and Shikyo. Do it for BC!
BC what do you say about that?
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Not an edit. Not a double post.
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On October 31 2009 22:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2009 11:33 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Are we doing double lynch now or tomorrow night after BC's death confirms things? I posted it in the voting thread, but I will do it here too. Voting double lynch activates it for our NEXT lynch, not this one. So today we would only lynch BC, when next lynch we would kill Shikyo and RoL.
Fixed it for you.
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On November 01 2009 15:06 SugiuraMidori wrote:
I know the town has been suspect over Scamp for some time, but I don't see how RoL is a better choice over say.. Pyrr or Shikyo that folks have been mentioning for some time now.
I really don't know why the town is suspect over me. People are talking like it's a given to off me, and that's kind of disturbing.
I don't think Vivi is a godfather, though I guess it's a possibility. Redtooth is more likely as he could be begging to get checked with his play. If one is a Godfather then the other is probably a blue, but it's far more likely that they're both green.
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On November 01 2009 15:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I think Scamp should be one of our lynches definitely. He hasn't really done much and usually he just stays quiet when he is mafia. Although I guess he could be the medic, I remember one of his first games he got medic and went 3/3 with protects or something like that. So maybe we should wait on him, I say its a cointoss between Scamp being a Medic or Mafia.
Here's the thing. The only reason people want to lynch me is based on my behavior in the previous games I've played. That's it. I can't see how anything I've done is really that suspect. At the very least, there should be more suspects than just me being discussed.
I still don't think L is in the clear, and I'd like to hear more from him. Unless there is a lot going on behind the scenes which I am not a part of (very likely, actually, given Pyrr's silence and BC's sacrifice which was an absolute surprise to me) I really don't see any evidence that makes him not a suspect. Note that he voted Vivi toward the end of the day. Sure he posted his reasoning, reasoning I agreed with. He acted on it and I didn't. Had I done so, Chez would still be alive. Certainly not ironclad evidence or anything like that, but if L were mafia he'd obviously want to keep Chez alive.
If I were mafia I would have voted for Vivi. I was mafia when Vivi was one minute too late to vote to save himself when he was mafia. I wouldn't make that mistake.
I also actually curious as to why the mafia hasn't given up yet. They've only got 1 KP, things are going to be very slow and very difficult given the DT situation. Sure the Godfather is out there which will make things more challenging, but there's got to be something out there that's giving the mafia hope that they can possibly win.
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On November 01 2009 18:29 motbob wrote:
And ya, RoL isn't the best candidate for lynch. Y'all are right. I'll probably just vote for Scamp at first when day breaks.
Please explain why. All these auto-votes for me is just giving me the assumption that you guys are just guessing with no good reasoning.
Also if you really want to make the case that voting for Chez doesn't absolve you of suspicion, then you should still be under suspicion too.
On November 01 2009 19:00 SugiuraMidori wrote:
Don't forget we still get two votes.
So we can also add one of these: Vivi, Pyrr, L, etc as you guys choose.. (though I think we need to make a choice sooner rather than later so we can speed the game along a bit.
My fun time is really only at night ;P
And now I really get annoyed. If you put L under consideration then you cannot just automatically have me die.
I'd also prefer it if we get the whole town involved instead of a "choice" consisting of about three people.
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On November 02 2009 12:21 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think it should be Scamp and HeavenOnEarth. We all know that we need to be active to understand everybody in this game and in my opinion being quiet puts you in the hot seat. I've said this before and I'll say it again being inactive in this game especially is bad.
I'm on the fence about Scamp I just feel like he was providing mis-information, and once night hit he was nowhere to be found. (two days ago) He made one post and was gone again. I don't think this is the best reason to vote for someone to lynch but of the candidates to get lynched he is definitely part of my top 2.
Pot. Kettle. Black?
I would appreciate it if you would gladly show what mis-information I provided.
Also I have more information to reveal, but before that I think L said that he found someone who was caught lying? Ah yes, here it is.
On November 02 2009 02:28 L wrote:
I'm rather busy sorting through a lot of information in PMs regarding roleclaims and DT checks and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure I've found someone who is flat out lying.
Will post a bit more after I finish showering and getting my thoughts in order.
So were you wrong on this? What were you thinking?
On November 02 2009 01:07 motbob wrote:
Yes, which is exactly what I said. L2Mafia
I'm trying, but it's hard. A lot of people here have played together a lot and often the posts come in flurries.
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Okay look. This is getting seriously annoying.
People are voting for me and justifying it with "not being active" which is far from what's actually going on. Look at the evidence and find anything that points me as mafia. ANYTHING. All that's ever said is that I'm acting like I did in previous games where I was mafia.
I need to point out again that mafia have not given up despite what appears to be a really bad situation. This means, in my mind, that there are mafia out there in a really good position not to get killed.
Yes I am still suspicious of L. In fact, I am suspicious of any behind the scenes circle, mainly because I am not involved in it. I strongly urge people to take a look at who voted for Vivi, knowing now that Chez is mafia. L says they made the vote close to see if anyone would jump and reveal themselves. Is no one suspecting that it's just an excuse to try to save Chez?
I mean, both Vivi and Chez were suspected of being mafia. How come people that suspected Vivi before don't suspect him now?
I don't have a good reason to suspect Sugiura right now, because there was a day where no one was hit and no one has counter-claimed to her claim of being hit. That'd have to be one crazy mafia tactic to hit their own member, unless they've got a medic in their pocket. I'd like to point out that while she is doing a great job at leading the town, she hasn't been helpful so far in killing any mafia. She voted for Vivi, and she was wrong about Judge. Is this scenerio far-fetched? Yes. But it's about as far fetched as lynching me.
I need a picture of Farfetched here.
Anyway, I said I had additional information to share, and here it is. Infundibulum had been communicating with me via PMs about his suspicion of L. What L suspected is correct, he did protect L the night that L claimed to have been hit and protected by a medic. He received no message saying his protection worked. So if there are actually two medics in this game as well as a veteran that seemed pretty powerful for the town. So we figured something was fishy.
Here's the kicker. Infundibulum also protected Sugiura the night she got hit, and his protection failed again. I really don't know what to make of this. Either both medics are in total sync by circumstance and the other medic sends in his actions really, really fast or someone is lying. Maybe it's a coincidence, or maybe the other medic is in someone's pocket and sends in their actions as soon as night starts. Either way only Sugiura knows for sure who this other medic is.
I did tell one person about Infun, just in case I was being lied to. That person is Pyrr. I sent a PM to him the night no one got killed. I wanted to make sure that if I died the information would be out there somewhere.
The point here is that I don't know who's calling the shots behind the scenes, but everything is super quiet from what I can see. I'm still suspicious of L because of this quietness, even though if he is the vet he's got nothing to fear from being night killed. You know who also voiced a similar opinion? BloodyCobbler. Have people forgotten this?
Then there are people voting with no evidence, they're just voting because they can't find anything better to do. It's frustrating and annoying when the town is being this quiet when we are in a really really good situation.
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On November 03 2009 09:36 L wrote: Because we have a confirmed DT with confirmed sanity who checked him as green. Try to keep up with the thread before you go into hyper defensive porcupine mode.
Yeah thanks. Oh wait, we had this information during the Chezinu/Vivi vote.
Please reply to all the stuff about you.
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On November 03 2009 09:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I think it has been said a few times by now. Vivi can only be the godfather if anything. Vivi and Redtooth were both the SAME to sugdori's checks on them. Do you honestly think both of them are our last mafia, or that one is the godfather?
No, I don't. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. There seems to be a lot of decision making that is being kept secret from the town. Pyrr had some reasoning to vote for Chez that he revealed after the vote. It would have been nice to have that information before the vote. Now apparently there was a plan to keep the vote close to see if anyone would reveal themselves by voting at the last second. Awesome.
Again there is probably a wealth of information to be had but if there is it's being kept secret. Now we're voting on the pretense that we're bound to hit a mafia if we just vote a whole group of people off. Excellent. We are in a good situation so let's just nuke the island and pick off mafia in a random blast.
What is the point of all this secrecy? The mafia only has one KP a night, we have a medic out there somewhere, we have a veteran who's afraid to speak pubically, and we have multiple DTs figuring out things as we go. Unless there's something I'm missing, all the mafia have in their favor right now is a godfather. But if we play scared and hide all the information we have, this will just cause confusion among the town that aren't "in the loop."
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On November 03 2009 11:47 SugiuraMidori wrote:
I try to share at least a portion of what is going on without releasing everyone's roles, if you don't feel that is enough please ask more and I'll pass it on if it really was discussed. There really isn't much going on atm other than confirming that I'd be protected from now on and that Shikyo is suspect. Which, I recall, I quite clearly shared my thoughts openly.. if that isn't enough for you.. then maybe you are just being a paranoid lynch magnet ;P
When did Pyrr share bodyguard information with you?
Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be. I don't have the best track record of reading everything closely) all we know are your checks. Who else has been checked?
Were you aware of any plan to vote Vivi to keep the vote close to Chezinu?
Did Pyrr confirm to you (or anyone) that I sent him a PM regarding Infundiulum?
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RoL, thank you. That's what I've wanted to know for a while now. Now I need to think about it see what I can come up with.
On November 03 2009 12:40 L wrote: But the DT wasn't confirmed and didn't know if the two were green or red. Hence the entire pretext which your now confirmed blue medic friend went to lengths to defend, and the reason we lopped off cobbler's head. You can't go back 2 days and pretend that we knew what we do now. That simply doesn't work. You really need to stop trying to cherrypick soundbytes while ignoring their context.
I didn't really see many people suspect that Sugiura could be lying, and the general consensus was that they were both green. Adding confirmed DTs does not change the suspicion after the fact, because we are looking for a godfather. So how can there be suspicion on Vivi before and no suspicion now? Was it just manufactured to make a close vote?
I'm just trying to work with any cards I have. I strongly suspect that someone that's being 'helpful' to the town is the godfather. If we kill the godfather anytime soon the game is over. The mafia haven't given up. We know there are only two mafia left. Someone really thinks they can pull out the victory in these circumstances.
Edit: Oops, put Sigiura instead of RoL.
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Was there anyone out there that was of the opinion that Vivi and Redtooth were both mafia?
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EPT
