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Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group!
Ban bets!!Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold- better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser]- Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] |
On October 08 2017 03:15 iCanada wrote:
I'd agree with that. But in a vacuum, in terms of level of play domestically, TSM as a club should 6-0 that group, imo.
Sure, TSM should be able to 6-0 that group. But Sven disappears on the big stage. Hauntzer can be really good or just pretty mediocre. TSM's drafting has been all over the place (from great to fucking awful). AFAIK there are still a bunch of TSM fanboys here, but none of them even offered a TSM 6-0 group bet; in part I'm sure because while that's possible, it's ridiculously unlikely given the history.
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On October 08 2017 05:55 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 03:48 Zato-1 wrote:The only surprising results for me thus far have been ahq > EDG, GAM > Fnatic, and RNG > SSG. Everything else has gone according to my Pick'ems predictions so far  Two of the groups I have look good, but I placed EDG and Fnatic 2nd in their groups, and they're kinda last  . I still Fnatic will somehow push through though. Show nested quote +From what I've seen I'd say best region so far, the korean teams in the individual games haven't been as consistently dominating through the entirety as usual. Not really true. Last year the KR teams all lost games in group stage, Tigers even lost two games. They all ended first in their groups, but they weren't invincible. Only in the playoffs did they really start rolling over opponents. I'm expecting something similar this year, SKT might very well lose another surprise game, RNG might even be first seed. I may sound like a blind fanboy, but it feels like Koreans are trolling in group stages. It's not that they're losing on purpose, more that none of them showed their (best) strats/picks yet. Korean teams in gerenal should be full confidence that they're going to make it to the next round, so it's probably better to have suboptimal p/b in groups to gain an edge over true competitors later.
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Nah, SKT just looks a lot worse than they've historically been. With a 10k gold deficit they would've lost their second game for sure against a better team (much in the same way SSG lost to RNG), and they looked shaky in their 3rd game as well. Being 3-0 thus far they'll probably still finish 1st in their group and depending on their opponent for the quarters they might be favored in that matchup as well, but I don't see this SKT making it past semis.
Longzhu looks really strong, though.
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That is not what trolling means at all. None of these teams will be busting out their secret strats now unless they absolutely have to.
SKT has looked worse all season. Do people just not watch LCK? KT imploding was only reason they got 2nd seed this split. Problem is SSG isn't exactly a powerhouse so unless LZ meets up with them I'm confident they'll make finals.
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I would've loved to see KT instead of SSG as well, they are far more exciting, and I don't think they'd lose to anyone except another KR team, they win off insane individual skill first and then with macro, just like SSW. Also Crown isn't looking too good this season. But KT losing wasn't surprising, they failed every possible way to make it to Worlds. Honestly the biggest disappointment of a super team ever.
I don't see this SKT making it past semis
You are so going to regret that lol. I expect SKT to make it to finals, unless they meet LZ before that. They always pull through, Kkoma's belt is a very persuasive tool.
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On October 08 2017 05:04 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
geez, the audience was fucking silent after EDG v C9 and WE vs TSM.
NA looking like the second best region so far. From what I've seen I'd say best region so far, the korean teams in the individual games haven't been as consistently dominating through the entirety as usual. If the standings stay as if I'm looking at a 100% pick'em. :D
Korea for the last couple years, or at least last year, looks a little sloppy round 1, then puts that experience into the super computer that lets them crack down hard in round 2.
Korean losses 1/2 so far. =D
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~85 champs not banned or picked yet lul
Kalista 100% pick/ban
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lol i cant see skt NOT making it past semis unless vsing another korean team.
and even then I still believe in them to win it all
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The scout- Clearlove combo is just so bad. They look like they are playing together for the first time ever.
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On October 08 2017 06:33 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 03:15 iCanada wrote:
I'd agree with that. But in a vacuum, in terms of level of play domestically, TSM as a club should 6-0 that group, imo. Sure, TSM should be able to 6-0 that group. But Sven disappears on the big stage. Hauntzer can be really good or just pretty mediocre. TSM's drafting has been all over the place (from great to fucking awful). AFAIK there are still a bunch of TSM fanboys here, but none of them even offered a TSM 6-0 group bet; in part I'm sure because while that's possible, it's ridiculously unlikely given the history.
As an NA/TSM fanboy, my initial explanation for why I took the bet and said they would win 10 games for NA was actually me being conservative the number of games I thought they could actually win.
But since my inner (and many of NA's fans) fanboyism actually bit me in the ass last year, I decided to be a bit more cautious in my prediction. I will go with the superstitious crowd on Reddit and underhype TSM & NA in order to not jinx them. This is also why I will NOT officially gloat on the bet until NA gets the 8th game win next week (0-10 2nd week never forghetti)
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On October 08 2017 13:15 Torchise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 06:33 geript wrote:On October 08 2017 03:15 iCanada wrote:
I'd agree with that. But in a vacuum, in terms of level of play domestically, TSM as a club should 6-0 that group, imo. Sure, TSM should be able to 6-0 that group. But Sven disappears on the big stage. Hauntzer can be really good or just pretty mediocre. TSM's drafting has been all over the place (from great to fucking awful). AFAIK there are still a bunch of TSM fanboys here, but none of them even offered a TSM 6-0 group bet; in part I'm sure because while that's possible, it's ridiculously unlikely given the history. As an NA/TSM fanboy, my initial explanation for why I took the bet and said they would win 10 games for NA was actually me being conservative the number of games I thought they could actually win. But since my inner (and many of NA's fans) fanboyism actually bit me in the ass last year, I decided to be a bit more cautious in my prediction. I will go with the superstitious crowd on Reddit and underhype TSM & NA in order to not jinx them. This is also why I will NOT officially gloat on the bet until NA gets the 8th game win next week (0-10 2nd week never forghetti)
I didn't expect C9 or IMT to do this well; I believed in their ability to be NA teams. I was probably a bit too aggressive with the line, but eh. It's fun. At worst, NA does better than expected which is a slight win. I still don't think TSM goes 6-0 in their group and I really doubt IMT or C9 get out of their groups. Three NA teams in semis would be really impressive considering even though I'd highly doubt any would get out unless it was NA vs NA.
I haven't watched all of IMT's games, but C9 and TSM seem to understand the meta which is a big benefit for them.
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On October 07 2017 20:29 Sleight wrote:
EDIT: Who is the non-pastry time tea drinker? He sounds like a goon. Turn his mic off.
You are talking about the caster with the English accent that was commentating on the first 3 games, right? Welcome aboard the Vedius hate train, it started a on day 2: http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26771208
On a separate note, why don't GAM play "standard" against the rest of the group from now on? They got wins at MSI in BO1s against the major regions doing just that and AFAIK, they played normally in their regional finals against YG and won convincingly each time. Don't see why GAM couldn't repeat YG's success against FNC. Is Archie that much of a liability top lane that they think that they must come up with bizarro cheese and lane swaps to get him out of the laning phase? Or is the Nocturne & Morde pick just a one-off cheese intended to mind game their opponents into banning out these picks while they are perfectly able to pull off wins normally?
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On October 08 2017 14:04 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 13:15 Torchise wrote:On October 08 2017 06:33 geript wrote:On October 08 2017 03:15 iCanada wrote:
I'd agree with that. But in a vacuum, in terms of level of play domestically, TSM as a club should 6-0 that group, imo. Sure, TSM should be able to 6-0 that group. But Sven disappears on the big stage. Hauntzer can be really good or just pretty mediocre. TSM's drafting has been all over the place (from great to fucking awful). AFAIK there are still a bunch of TSM fanboys here, but none of them even offered a TSM 6-0 group bet; in part I'm sure because while that's possible, it's ridiculously unlikely given the history. As an NA/TSM fanboy, my initial explanation for why I took the bet and said they would win 10 games for NA was actually me being conservative the number of games I thought they could actually win. But since my inner (and many of NA's fans) fanboyism actually bit me in the ass last year, I decided to be a bit more cautious in my prediction. I will go with the superstitious crowd on Reddit and underhype TSM & NA in order to not jinx them. This is also why I will NOT officially gloat on the bet until NA gets the 8th game win next week (0-10 2nd week never forghetti) I didn't expect C9 or IMT to do this well; I believed in their ability to be NA teams. I was probably a bit too aggressive with the line, but eh. It's fun. At worst, NA does better than expected which is a slight win. I still don't think TSM goes 6-0 in their group and I really doubt IMT or C9 get out of their groups. Three NA teams in semis would be really impressive considering even though I'd highly doubt any would get out unless it was NA vs NA. I haven't watched all of IMT's games, but C9 and TSM seem to understand the meta which is a big benefit for them.
I get what you are saying. If any team has a bad day, especially on the 2nd week where they will likely schedule all games from a group in a single day, anything goes and the better teams might not necessarily come out on top (EDG can attest to that, it must be heartbreaking to lose to AHQ one day then be 1 play away from beating SKT and have nothing to show for it). Bo1s make it harder to truly compare teams between one another.
More than winning this bet, I'm just hoping that the NA teams show enough to prove that most (if not all 3) teams deserve to get out of groups this time around, after all, this late game meta should favor the better teams...
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The CN sandbagging thing is a meme from a while ago when all the "CN experts" (of which I would argue no English speaking ones have ever existed) said certain top CN teams sandbagged in the regular season because people who watched other leagues more closely were very skeptical of their results. These "experts" then said CN teams like to sandbag I think LGD being their favorite example.
The reality is they never sandbagged and were just inconsistent.
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On October 08 2017 14:50 Torchise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2017 14:04 geript wrote:On October 08 2017 13:15 Torchise wrote:On October 08 2017 06:33 geript wrote:On October 08 2017 03:15 iCanada wrote:
I'd agree with that. But in a vacuum, in terms of level of play domestically, TSM as a club should 6-0 that group, imo. Sure, TSM should be able to 6-0 that group. But Sven disappears on the big stage. Hauntzer can be really good or just pretty mediocre. TSM's drafting has been all over the place (from great to fucking awful). AFAIK there are still a bunch of TSM fanboys here, but none of them even offered a TSM 6-0 group bet; in part I'm sure because while that's possible, it's ridiculously unlikely given the history. As an NA/TSM fanboy, my initial explanation for why I took the bet and said they would win 10 games for NA was actually me being conservative the number of games I thought they could actually win. But since my inner (and many of NA's fans) fanboyism actually bit me in the ass last year, I decided to be a bit more cautious in my prediction. I will go with the superstitious crowd on Reddit and underhype TSM & NA in order to not jinx them. This is also why I will NOT officially gloat on the bet until NA gets the 8th game win next week (0-10 2nd week never forghetti) I didn't expect C9 or IMT to do this well; I believed in their ability to be NA teams. I was probably a bit too aggressive with the line, but eh. It's fun. At worst, NA does better than expected which is a slight win. I still don't think TSM goes 6-0 in their group and I really doubt IMT or C9 get out of their groups. Three NA teams in semis would be really impressive considering even though I'd highly doubt any would get out unless it was NA vs NA. I haven't watched all of IMT's games, but C9 and TSM seem to understand the meta which is a big benefit for them. I get what you are saying. If any team has a bad day, especially on the 2nd week where they will likely schedule all games from a group in a single day, anything goes and the better teams might not necessarily come out on top (EDG can attest to that, it must be heartbreaking to lose to AHQ one day then be 1 play away from beating SKT and have nothing to show for it). Bo1s make it harder to truly compare teams between one another. More than winning this bet, I'm just hoping that the NA teams show enough to prove that most (if not all 3) teams deserve to get out of groups this time around, after all, this late game meta should favor the better teams...
I understand the idea that late game meta favors the better team, but I don't think that's true. It's less about who has the better team/draft/etc and more who wins the last team fight for all the marbles. Look at the SKT game; down 10k and a single initiation mid won the game. Samsung walked into a 2v5 full surround for very little reason with little to no ability to get wards. RNG vs Samsung I think is closer than the first game looked; I'm not sure RNG is better team right now but the meta does seem to favor them. I think Samsung would benefit from just banning out shield supports and deny RNG one. Forcing the supports onto something engage oriented that doesn't support Censer nerfs Uzi's ability to run amuck in the mid game.
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On October 08 2017 15:12 JimmiC wrote:
Everyone keeps saying that CN sandbags. What does sand bagging mean to all of you? In traditional sports it means purposely playing poorly in meaningless events so that you have a higher handicap and can play for real and crush at the important ones.
This seems nothing like what CN has ever done. Does sandbagging have a different meaning i was unaware of? Did a mass of people fuck it up? What is going on?
To me, sandbagging is intentionally losing for some other benefit. ~2 years ago the various China experts argued that teams would sandbag for various reasons; it was maybe a fair argument when teams were intentionally manipulation placement in summer to try to go to worlds (to try and end up 2nd/4th/5th iirc to avoid the 1 seed). Most of CN's "sandbagging" was just suboptimal play that got punished. The analysts (Kelsie M, Razz, Frost, etc.) were a bit insulated and biased; so they just did not critically look at things.
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There was also a team they claimed would intentionally pick losing lanes to practice playing from behind lol
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I mean at the end of they splits there were like games where two teams both tried to lose and there were like 100+ kills in a 50-minute game because they were both trying to dodge EDG in the semi-finals.
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Flashwolves wait for taric ult to end then go in ????
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EPT
