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On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan.
Agree.What I would like to know is who made the calls to group in front of the enemy bot tower instead of letting hauntzer split push kill the top tower. Because they tried it two times and it did not worked.
It is more the macro decision making that would be interesting to know how it works in TSM. If yellowstar is making these calls, then indeed yellowstar has to be blaimed.
Another thing is that TSM is scrimming CLG a lot. CLG is doing great in splitpush so TSM could maybe have learned something.
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Left when TSM was way ahead, come back and see they lost with a gold lead
Im just letting myself imagine what happened before I go actually watch it
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On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan.
Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out.
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On March 04 2016 22:10 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics How the fuck is giving information shotcalling?????? Saying "x used flash we can dive bot" is not fucking shotcalling.
saying there is an option for a dive. Is giving an option that can then help reach a consensus. On the reverse that person can maybe block a dive if they know it won't work due to cooldown/champions or if they know the position of the enemy jungle. That is how anybody would define democratic shot calling which was your original point. Its not people voting its more a collective effort from my understanding.
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On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out.
To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world.
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On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world.
This is true.
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On March 04 2016 22:19 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:10 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics How the fuck is giving information shotcalling?????? Saying "x used flash we can dive bot" is not fucking shotcalling. saying there is an option for a dive. Is giving an option that can then help reach a consensus. On the reverse that person can maybe block a dive if they know it won't work due to cooldown/champions or if they know the position of the enemy jungle. That is how anybody would define democratic shot calling which was your original point. Its not people voting its more a collective effort from my understanding.
But that isn't fucking shotcalling that is just giving information what every single person on a good team should be doing.....
Democratic shotcalling is just the poor alternative to when a team doesn't have someone who has the balls and the team's trust.
Say h2k. Everyone talks and says shit but when ryu says "do x" they do x. That is what a shotcaller is. You can't be a shotcaller if you aren't the one who utlimately decides what you are going to do.
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On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world.
So is Yellowstar.
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How did TSM throw? Only saw the first part
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TSM loose = Check thoorins twitter
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On March 04 2016 22:22 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. This is true.
No. No, it's not.
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On March 04 2016 22:26 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. This is true. No. No, it's not.
But did you see his calls against Echo Fox??
edit: mfw Yellowstar
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On March 04 2016 22:26 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. This is true. No. No, it's not.
Can deny it all you want but it doesn't change anything.
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On March 04 2016 22:23 Mensol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. So is Yellowstar.
problem is, if nobody listens, does he make a sound?
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Seeing this result was a nice happy moment in an annoying day :>
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Can't wait for OG to fall on it's face so I can stop hearing how Soaz isn't bad, he just doesn't care.
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On March 04 2016 22:23 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:19 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics How the fuck is giving information shotcalling?????? Saying "x used flash we can dive bot" is not fucking shotcalling. saying there is an option for a dive. Is giving an option that can then help reach a consensus. On the reverse that person can maybe block a dive if they know it won't work due to cooldown/champions or if they know the position of the enemy jungle. That is how anybody would define democratic shot calling which was your original point. Its not people voting its more a collective effort from my understanding. But that isn't fucking shotcalling that is just giving information what every single person on a good team should be doing..... Democratic shotcalling is just the poor alternative to when a team doesn't have someone who has the balls and the team's trust. Say h2k. Everyone talks and says shit but when ryu says "do x" they do x. That is what a shotcaller is. You can't be a shotcaller if you aren't the one who utlimately decides what you are going to do.
Many things happen way too fast though for a single person to determine them. Or when the shotcaller is elsewhere / not looking. As in my earlier example, support says "no summs, we should dive", jungle says "ok" and does it or even says nothing and simply does it. While shot caller Ryu sits in mid lane and does nothing.
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On March 04 2016 22:29 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:23 Mensol wrote:On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. So is Yellowstar. problem is, if nobody listens, does he make a sound?
This lol. It feels like YS has no presence on the team. YS should just come back to Europe and join fnatic as a 6th man like Starix for Na'vi.
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On March 04 2016 22:30 Gahlo wrote:
Can't wait for OG to fall on it's face so I can stop hearing how Soaz isn't bad, he just doesn't care.
feel free to quote me on this in 40mins but,
this is a tournament so Soaz normally turns up and does good.
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On March 04 2016 22:29 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2016 22:23 Mensol wrote:On March 04 2016 22:21 Gahlo wrote:On March 04 2016 22:19 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:14 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:10 Disengaged wrote:On March 04 2016 22:08 MuddyJam wrote:On March 04 2016 22:05 nafta wrote:On March 04 2016 22:04 Disengaged wrote:
Seriously though, why the hell pick up Yellowstar if your not going to utilize his shotcalling ability? The democratic shotcalling can work, yes, but it hasn't been working out for TSM for a long time so its time for them to change the shotcalling. Everytime I hear TSM comms, all I hear is yelling/talking over eachother, and Yellowstar is drowned out due to the noise and cant really be heard. Have yet to see democratic shotcalling really work tbh. depends how you define it. Everyone in a play should give information and look for and spot options. Hard to criticise shot calling methods when you don't hear the mics We've heard how TSM does their shotcalling through numerous "Mic checks" though. They shout over one another while Yellowstar can barely be heard through it all shot calling is not managing a tf. Macro play has nothing to do with how a team fight is played out. You could have beautiful calling during a tf and still be a clown fiesta and vise versa. The mic checks you see in riots stuff makes for a nice 5 minute video but doesn't really give much insight. A better example would be the mic check on SKT a while back where they are planning mores for the next minute talking about rengar ulti and what is there plan. Well, I mean, compare the TSM mic checks during team fights and C9 teaming fighting. Hai is the person giving the orders. Saying who to kill, when to back off, when to switch targets, while everyone else is giving small information like whether someone used a summoner, or if an ability is on CD. That kind of information lets Hai decide the best course of action while fights are breaking out. To be fair, Hai is one of the best shot callers in the world. So is Yellowstar. problem is, if nobody listens, does he make a sound?
If you put Hai on this TSM, nobody would listen him as well. the loudest on making the calls on current TSM, and no way your voice going over Bjergsen and DL screaming lol.
Hai is one of the best shotcaller ever played this game.
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EPT
