EPTWe have Worlds.
EDG takes 2015 Mid-Season Invitational - Page 335
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
We have Worlds. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
Korea ? China > SEA > EU > NA > Wilcard Regions Best teams of each region were in this tournament. Korea is still the biggest winner though. They have eight players in final. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Well given the teams in the finals it makes more sense to have the match at a time that's reasonable for Asia. | ||
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chosenkerrigan
858 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:53 TheYango wrote: Well given the teams in the finals it makes more sense to have the match at a time that's reasonable for Asia. 6am on Monday morning, yeah totally reasonable time for Asia West coast has the best time for this tournament. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:52 Mensol wrote: I think this tournament made it pretty clear that: Korea ? China > SEA > EU > NA > Wilcard Regions Best teams of each region were in this tournament. Judging region for its best team is hilarious. I'd argue that EU > SEA > NA, at least because region has some depth arguably, not like NA which got swept without chance by TSM and team got destroyed. LPL as league is definitely stronger than LCK, only real question before Worlds is can SKT T1 grow to levels of SKT T1 #2-2013/Samsung-2014, because if not, LPL has real chance to snatch Worlds and make NA as officially only premier region without gold there, even if EDG lose tonight. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
They could have made the grand finals a bit earlier for Europe like they had the first matches on the other 3 days earlier as well, but at least it's easy to get VODs afterwards on both Youtube and Twitch. It is a good time for both the host nation, and the two finalist nations. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:55 chosenkerrigan wrote: 6am on Monday morning, yeah totally reasonable time for Asia West coast has the best time for this tournament. Sorry, should have said "more reasonable". It's as reasonable as you can be for an event that's being broadcast from the east coast of the United States. Unless you're not averse to starting at like 8AM but that's not enough rest for the players given how late the event ran before. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:49 chosenkerrigan wrote: If EDG crushes SKT --> China No.1 region finally, KR second, TW/EU/NA, then wild card. If EDG barely beats SKT --> China/KR very close, hard to draw any more conclusions. If SKT barely beats EDG --> same as above If SKT crushes EDG --> there's no hope for other regions in League anymore i don't think other regions have much hope at all china can keep up as long as they have enough money to import koreans but the fact is that they do well because they import koreans | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:58 TheYango wrote: Sorry, should have said "more reasonable". It's as reasonable as you can be for an event that's being broadcast from the east coast of the United States. Unless you're not averse to starting at like 8AM but that's not enough rest for the players given how late the event ran before. Well 4 vs 6 on a Monday morning doesn't change much but 2200 vs 2400 on a Sunday evening changes quite a bit. All so they can have some dumb "showmatch" between casters and random pros? Sigh, they really hate Europe timezone. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:34 Azarkon wrote: As much hype as MSI is getting, mainly due to TSM getting dunked and Fnatic going to Game 5 vs. SKT, Worlds is going to be the ultimate test of eSports theories regarding infrastructure vs. talent vs. gaming culture. Yeah, the ultimate show of infrastructure will be based on 2nd and 3rd place chinese and korean teams. On May 11 2015 04:49 chosenkerrigan wrote: If EDG crushes SKT --> China No.1 region finally, KR second, TW/EU/NA, then wild card. If EDG barely beats SKT --> China/KR very close, hard to draw any more conclusions. If SKT barely beats EDG --> same as above If SKT crushes EDG --> there's no hope for other regions in League anymore SKT is a really poor representation of what happened to Korea imo. They still have insanely deep talent pool that hasn't changed much from their sister team lineups. They were hardly affected by the exodus of Korean pros. GE and CJ are a bit more representational of how badly Korea got buttfucked by Chinese money. | ||
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chosenkerrigan
858 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:01 Frolossus wrote: i don't think other regions have much hope at all china can keep up as long as they have enough money to import koreans but the fact is that they do well because they import koreans No. China actually has very competitive infrastructure for its own talents to grow and shine. The import of Korean players will just be a catalyst for the scene. Take a look at EDG at this tournament and tell me if it was KR carrying China or the other way around. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:12 chosenkerrigan wrote: No. China actually has very competitive infrastructure for its own talents to grow and shine. The import of Korean players will just be a catalyst for the scene. Take a look at EDG at this tournament and tell me if it was KR carrying China or the other way around. the point is that korea is a crutch for china's development. if you remove that then china lags behind | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:14 Frolossus wrote: the point is that korea is a crutch for china's development. if you remove that then china lags behind China only looks bad when you're talking about comparison to #1 Korean teams, but they've actually done really well against #2 and #3 korean teams at worlds, and international tournament. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:49 chosenkerrigan wrote: If EDG crushes SKT --> China No.1 region finally, KR second, TW/EU/NA, then wild card. If EDG barely beats SKT --> China/KR very close, hard to draw any more conclusions. If SKT barely beats EDG --> same as above If SKT crushes EDG --> there's no hope for other regions in League anymore SKT crushing EDG and specifically Pawn & Deft is a positive outcome for other regions and the development of LoL, because it shows that there isn't a disparity in raw talent, but in coaching/preparation/attitude/infrastructure. Korean tier 1 players going to China and regressing to Chinese level after a while shows that it isn't Chinese players who are the problem, but the environment. Such an outcome encourages teams to stick with local talent, limits the amount of imports, and results in concrete strategies for improvement ie fix the environment. It gives hope to both players and viewers that their region is capable of improving and eventually closing the gap. By contrast, the 2nd and 3rd are worse outcomes, because the conclusion from EDG ~ SKT is that the only way for a region to improve to Korea's level is to import the best Korean players with big $$$. Such a conclusion results in the devaluing of local players, the inflation of top Korean players' net worth, and in the long run, it results in a scene where every other region is still irrelevant except insofar as they're able to poach Korean players. That is, the Korean hype train not only survives, but stifles infrastructural improvements in other regions via making them believe it's their players who are the problem. The first outcome is equally bad, but not in the same way, because EDG crushing SKT simply replaces LCK >>> world with LPL >>> world due to LPL $$$ >>> world. $$$ being the decider introduces all sorts of problems and in a way, cheapens the competition because the richest team is simply able to buy itself to victory. Further, the Chinese billionaires won't be passionate about eSports forever, and when the $$$ dries up, it's going to be back to LCK >>> world, so it doesn't solve jack. To which end, people ought to hope, not despair, that SKT crushes EDG. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:18 wei2coolman wrote: China only looks bad when you're talking about comparison to #1 Korean teams, but they've actually done really well against #2 and #3 korean teams at worlds, and international tournament. You mean against Najin white sheild? Chinese never faced SSW with Dade, or NJBS, or SSB. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:56 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Judging region for its best team is hilarious. I'd argue that EU > SEA > NA, at least because region has some depth arguably, not like NA which got swept without chance by TSM and team got destroyed. LPL as league is definitely stronger than LCK, only real question before Worlds is can SKT T1 grow to levels of SKT T1 #2-2013/Samsung-2014, because if not, LPL has real chance to snatch Worlds and make NA as officially only premier region without gold there, even if EDG lose tonight. If we were to talk about depth of region then dont let NA to fool you just because Loco choosed wrong strats in MSI. i'd personally pick C9, TL, TiP over UoL, H2K and SK any day. fnatic is better than TSM though. | ||
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chosenkerrigan
858 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:26 Azarkon wrote: Even though it sounds wrong, SKT crushing EDG and specifically Pawn & Deft is in fact a positive outcome for other regions and the development of LoL. Why? Because it shows that there isn't a disparity in raw talent. The disparity is in coaching/preparation/attitude/infrastructure. Korean tier 1 players going to China and regressing to Chinese level after a while shows that it isn't Chinese players who are the problem, but the environment. Such an outcome encourages teams to stick with local talent, limits the amount of imports, and results in concrete strategies for improvement ie fix the environment. It gives hope to both players and viewers that their region is capable of improving and eventually closing the gap. By contrast, the worst outcome is the 2nd/3rd, because the conclusion from EDG ~ SKT is that the only way for a region to improve to Korea's level is to import the best Korean players with big $$$. Such a conclusion results in the devaluing of local players, the inflation of top Korean players' net worth, and in the long run, it results in a scene where every other region is still irrelevant except insofar as they're able to poach Korean players. That is, the Korean hype train not only survives, but stifles infrastructural improvements in other regions via making them believe it's their players who are the problem. The first outcome is equally bad, but not in the same way, because EDG crushing SKT simply replaces LCK >>> world with LPL >>> world due to LPL $$$ >>> world. $$$ being the decider introduces all sorts of problems and in a way, cheapens the competition because the richest team is simply able to buy itself to victory. Further, the Chinese billionaires won't be passionate about eSports forever, and when the $$$ dries up, it's going to be back to LCK >>> world, so it doesn't solve jack. To which end, we ought to hope, not despair, that SKT crushes EDG. As I said in a previous post, I consider KR exodus a catalyst for LPL scene. China has everything to be the best region in Lol: the money, the popularity, and the talents. As long as they innovate and dictate the meta and playstyle like Koreans did for the past two years, I have no doubt they will eventually surpass KR. One of the most noticeable innovation in this meta was smite-top first adopted by Flandre. We need to see this type of innovation keep coming out of LPL. | ||
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:28 Mensol wrote: If we were to talk about depth of region then dont let NA to fool you just because Loco choosed wrong strats in MSI. i'd personally pick C9, TL, TiP over UoL, H2K and SK any day. fnatic is better than TSM though. I'd go the other way around anytime lol  Definitely for H2k and UoL, on a more reserved way for SK though, with their changes. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 11 2015 05:33 chosenkerrigan wrote: As I said in a previous post, I consider KR exodus a catalyst for LPL scene. China has everything to be the best region in Lol: the money, the popularity, and the talents. As long as they innovate and dictate the meta and playstyle like Koreans did for the past two years, I have no doubt they will eventually surpass KR. One of the most noticeable innovation in this meta was smite-top first adopted by Flandre. We need to see this type of innovation keep coming out of LPL. You see it as a catalyst. Other people see it as a crutch. I don't know how the managers in China see it but from listening to their translated interviews, they were bitching about Chinese players' work ethic after S4 Worlds so I imagine they do see Korean players as an upgrade. That's what's negative about this import/export process. When you start seeing your own region's players as liabilities - which NA started doing even before China, it creates a negative feedback loop in which the end result = SC 2 outside of Korea: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_WCS_Global_Finals Of course, with the 2/5 restriction it won't ever get that bad in LoL, but still, when your teams get the idea that they need to spend millions importing Koreans in order to hold up, that's not a great situation to be in. It's an even worse situation to have to sabotage the Korean scene eg poach their best players & destroy their teams in order to compete because that results in worse competition for everyone. | ||
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