• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 23:54
CET 05:54
KST 13:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC28[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery HELPls! The old replay video w full HD resolution Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers
Tourneys
Bisu's Team vs Shuttle's Team 2026-11-14 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12709 users

[S4WC] Group Stage - Page 419

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 417 418 419 420 421 425 Next
Unfounded matchfixing accusations are not welcome. Refrain from making off-the-wall accusations without concrete evidence.
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
September 29 2014 00:35 GMT
#8361
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.
orzeu
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland5205 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-29 00:45:34
September 29 2014 00:42 GMT
#8362
On September 29 2014 09:30 Amarok wrote:
They didn't win but Froggen was excellent on TF in the first game against shield. Would have been a hard carry but Nyph and Shook were just too heavy.

He had good start but didn't make game winning plays.
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.

Yellowstar did okay, rest supports were not even close. The gap between non Korean supports and Koreans is even bigger then between junglers.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
September 29 2014 00:46 GMT
#8363
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:30 Amarok wrote:
They didn't win but Froggen was excellent on TF in the first game against shield. Would have been a hard carry but Nyph and Shook were just too heavy.

He had good start but didn't make game winning plays.


Shook and Nyph getting caught and Nyph being unable to ult a target who's going to fall below half hp while building zilean terribly were the real problems. Even Faker can't carry players that heavy.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
orzeu
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland5205 Posts
September 29 2014 00:50 GMT
#8364
On September 29 2014 09:46 Amarok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:30 Amarok wrote:
They didn't win but Froggen was excellent on TF in the first game against shield. Would have been a hard carry but Nyph and Shook were just too heavy.

He had good start but didn't make game winning plays.


Shook and Nyph getting caught and Nyph being unable to ult a target who's going to fall below half hp while building zilean terribly were the real problems. Even Faker can't carry players that heavy.

Still he could have done more in mid game. What about other games? Didn't carry either.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
September 29 2014 00:56 GMT
#8365
On September 29 2014 09:50 orzeu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:46 Amarok wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:30 Amarok wrote:
They didn't win but Froggen was excellent on TF in the first game against shield. Would have been a hard carry but Nyph and Shook were just too heavy.

He had good start but didn't make game winning plays.


Shook and Nyph getting caught and Nyph being unable to ult a target who's going to fall below half hp while building zilean terribly were the real problems. Even Faker can't carry players that heavy.

Still he could have done more in mid game. What about other games? Didn't carry either.


Not saying he had a great tournament. He didn't. His Kabuum game in particular was pretty average. His TF game was pretty good though.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
Goragoth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
New Zealand1065 Posts
September 29 2014 01:11 GMT
#8366
I'm still puzzled as to what went through Alliances minds when they picked their comp against Kabum. Building a comp that relies almost entirely on perfectly timed ultis from Kayle, when Wickd already demonstrated that he is bad at that champion in an earlier game is baffling.
Creator of LoLTool.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-29 01:22:27
September 29 2014 01:12 GMT
#8367
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.


Heart was pretty ridiculous today too. Spent a ton of time just hanging out in the enemy jungle messing with people, granting vision, and setting up plays as both Janna and Thresh.

On September 29 2014 08:52 orzeu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 08:46 upperbound wrote:
On September 29 2014 08:25 orzeu wrote:
On September 29 2014 08:20 upperbound wrote:
On September 29 2014 08:12 orzeu wrote:
Ryze was perma banned/picked vs him and maokai in almost every game. I'm not defending him, but he really gets to much hate. Also you would think that 'the best western player' would draw more then one ban in whole group stage.

Why would anyone target ban a player with a ginormous champion pool?

Ginormous champion pool? Doesn't play 3 most op mid laners in the game (Zilean/Yasuo/Zed) and prefer to play Fizz/Xerath for some reason. If you're world class midlaner you can solo carry games from mid lane on op champions.

Froggen has played Yasuo and Zed this season, both relatively well.

What's wrong with Fizz and Xerath? They are quite viable champions.

Can't really blame him for not playing Zilean when he actually has to carry the team himself most games. Maybe if you could guarantee Wickd on Irelia then Zilean might be a champion Froggen could practice but if Irelia is banned then that's not gonna happen.


He didn't carry any game in group stage.


It's because he isn't a world class mid laner. He's good but xpeke had a better showing at worlds than him. So did XWX. No one calls either of them the best in the west or top 5 mids in the world.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-29 01:22:15
September 29 2014 01:20 GMT
#8368
Sorry double post
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
September 29 2014 01:26 GMT
#8369
Guys I never thought I'd say this but... I don't mind Rivington's casting anymore.
Retvrn to Forvms
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
September 29 2014 01:30 GMT
#8370
If Peke played better than Froggen it's by a degree barely worth mentioning. His two Xerath games were atrocious, especially the LMQ one.
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2014 01:32 GMT
#8371
On September 29 2014 10:26 Chrispy wrote:
Guys I never thought I'd say this but... I don't mind Rivington's casting anymore.

because there's 3 casters, so he can only do play by play, no need to bounce color commentary off him,
liftlift > tsm
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
September 29 2014 01:38 GMT
#8372
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.

Yellowstar did okay, rest supports were not even close. The gap between non Korean supports and Koreans is even bigger then between junglers.


Oops, I meant to say that Yolostar wasn't close to the Korean supports, not that LemonNation was worse than Yolostar. I thought LomoNation did better than I expected. Yolostar is called yolostar for a reason. He can go yolo in EU and be okay, but it doesn't work against anyone else in the World stage. I was also surprised he didn't pick more aggressive supports considering his play style is one that favors it.
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-29 01:40:35
September 29 2014 01:39 GMT
#8373
On September 29 2014 10:12 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.


Heart was pretty ridiculous today too. Spent a ton of time just hanging out in the enemy jungle messing with people, granting vision, and setting up plays as both Janna and Thresh.



I agree. I guess I should have just mentioned all the Korean support players, but got lazy. QQ


bah, meant to edit not quote again. I fail
dDazed
Profile Joined August 2014
192 Posts
September 29 2014 01:48 GMT
#8374
Rivington is a good play by play caster. It is when he reaches too far and tries to be more analytical, that is when he says nonsensical and stupid shit. Like seeing two sheens on two people and saying that there will be two Trinity Forces soon, when one character is Fizz. Having two other casters with him means he doesn't have to fill the air as much, which lowers the chance where he will say really dumb shit.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 29 2014 01:57 GMT
#8375
On September 29 2014 10:38 ketchup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.

Yellowstar did okay, rest supports were not even close. The gap between non Korean supports and Koreans is even bigger then between junglers.


Oops, I meant to say that Yolostar wasn't close to the Korean supports, not that LemonNation was worse than Yolostar. I thought LomoNation did better than I expected. Yolostar is called yolostar for a reason. He can go yolo in EU and be okay, but it doesn't work against anyone else in the World stage. I was also surprised he didn't pick more aggressive supports considering his play style is one that favors it.

imo yolostar is probably the best western support, he's pretty close to koreans imo, his vision control is as good as the koreans, and he can do the mechanical plays as well, he just has those rare games where he goes full dora though,.
liftlift > tsm
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 29 2014 02:23 GMT
#8376
On September 29 2014 10:26 Chrispy wrote:
Guys I never thought I'd say this but... I don't mind Rivington's casting anymore.

He's gotten better, but I would say he's probably passing right now. However, I think having two color guys curtails his desire to multitask a bit. We'll see next split, I guess.

I do have to say that I immensely enjoy the 3 headed monster casts than the standard format.
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
September 29 2014 03:50 GMT
#8377
On September 29 2014 11:23 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 10:26 Chrispy wrote:
Guys I never thought I'd say this but... I don't mind Rivington's casting anymore.

He's gotten better, but I would say he's probably passing right now. However, I think having two color guys curtails his desire to multitask a bit. We'll see next split, I guess.

I do have to say that I immensely enjoy the 3 headed monster casts than the standard format.


I do not doubt Rivington's passion, his hard work, or his commitment to improve. However, he just doesn't have "it". If you took a transcript of what he says during a game, you'd be completely confused as to what he's talking about. Sometimes he's completely wrong with what he says too. Most of the time it's just empty gibberish.

Again, I think he's a good guy, I don't doubt his commitment, and I don't wish him any ill. That being said, I do want more talented casters to rise up and eventually replace him.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 29 2014 04:11 GMT
#8378
On September 29 2014 12:50 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 11:23 Gahlo wrote:
On September 29 2014 10:26 Chrispy wrote:
Guys I never thought I'd say this but... I don't mind Rivington's casting anymore.

He's gotten better, but I would say he's probably passing right now. However, I think having two color guys curtails his desire to multitask a bit. We'll see next split, I guess.

I do have to say that I immensely enjoy the 3 headed monster casts than the standard format.


I do not doubt Rivington's passion, his hard work, or his commitment to improve. However, he just doesn't have "it". If you took a transcript of what he says during a game, you'd be completely confused as to what he's talking about. Sometimes he's completely wrong with what he says too. Most of the time it's just empty gibberish.

Again, I think he's a good guy, I don't doubt his commitment, and I don't wish him any ill. That being said, I do want more talented casters to rise up and eventually replace him.

I think only institutions in their roles find pushback when it comes to being replaced. The casting videos from the group stages added another layer of respect in my eyes. I get tired just watching them.
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
September 29 2014 04:30 GMT
#8379
On September 29 2014 10:57 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2014 10:38 ketchup wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:42 orzeu wrote:
On September 29 2014 09:35 ketchup wrote:
Everyone really likes to focus on mid lane or top lane, but support plays are huge for the top Korean teams. The difference between LemonNation(most games because I admit he did have that really good game in the c9 vs shield game) and GorillA/Mata is huge. Same with Yolostar in Fnatic. Basically, these higher level support players enable their team so much more movement and map control than their counterparts. Too bad support impact is so difficult to gauge properly. The best example of a support player changing a team around completely in NA is TSM's Lustboy.

Yellowstar did okay, rest supports were not even close. The gap between non Korean supports and Koreans is even bigger then between junglers.


Oops, I meant to say that Yolostar wasn't close to the Korean supports, not that LemonNation was worse than Yolostar. I thought LomoNation did better than I expected. Yolostar is called yolostar for a reason. He can go yolo in EU and be okay, but it doesn't work against anyone else in the World stage. I was also surprised he didn't pick more aggressive supports considering his play style is one that favors it.

imo yolostar is probably the best western support, he's pretty close to koreans imo, his vision control is as good as the koreans, and he can do the mechanical plays as well, he just has those rare games where he goes full dora though,.


I can admit that yolostar is good in EU, but he does not do well internationally. A huge part of that was due to his vision control. Everything you said applies only to the EU scene. Watch him in the games in Worlds. He is no where near as outstanding.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
September 29 2014 05:03 GMT
#8380
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 417 418 419 420 421 425 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
09:00
FSL s12 week2: POG vs PTB
Liquipedia
OSC
08:30
Masters Cup #151: Playoffs
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
davetesta32
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
07:00
Best Games of SC
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Solar
SHIN vs MaxPax
herO vs SHIN
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 232
ProTech55
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 97
NaDa 47
Icarus 11
League of Legends
JimRising 673
Other Games
summit1g10508
WinterStarcraft294
C9.Mang0290
ToD152
NeuroSwarm107
ViBE65
trigger6
EnDerr1
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV132
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Shiphtur253
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
5h 6m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 6m
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
12h 6m
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
15h 6m
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
IPSL
1d 12h
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
1d 15h
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
SOOP
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.