[LCS] All-Star Tournament - Page 269

On May 27 2013 01:51 AsnSensation wrote:


thx for the insight, Amibition you sly dog :D

holy fucking shit, in game 2 Shy was just raping PDD, I didn't even think of waiting till all the zac blobs are in the center and kill them all of at once with one acceleration Blast. That was sick :D

On May 27 2013 12:05 SagaZ wrote:
how are those kda calculated? they don't make alot of sense to me..
NA should have sent voyboy over dyrus, Dyrus looked sooooo scared the whole event, even if voyboy makes questionable plays at times, it would have been better in my opinion

On May 26 2013 22:38 Letmelose wrote:


I'm sorry to be so rude, but you are regurgitating the same inane argument that will never evolve beyond simple beliefs that cannot be disproven. Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, the way you construct your arguments are totally invalid from the start. You are simply attatching random qualities you "eye-tested" personally to players you are familiar with without referencing to any specific games, or professional opinions, or even cross-referencing any of tournaments they played in. How do you rate a player in "vacuum" when obviously a player's performance varies [iheavily] on various circumstances including their team's performance, the quality of the opposition, the numerous in-game circumstances I have mentioned in my previous post, and their ever-changing form?

It's totally retarded to rate players without accounting for the patch they are playing in, the circumstances of the tournament they were playing in, their opposition, the team-composition, the events that happened in-game that directly influenced their performance, and even then we cannot know for sure because we never have the full scope of understanding of the actual state of things as a mere spectator. Hell, like I mentioned beforehand, even professional players do not have neccesarily have the correct view on things.

It's okay to believe in some things. I think amateur players on the Korean server such as Crumble Cookies has more crisp mechanics and champion pool than many of the famous professional players, and have personally seen him out-perform professional players on the Challenger League in Korea. However, I do not go around stating things as status quo, asserting a particular agenda on public forums by stating such as:

"Oh my god guys, Crumble Cookies has such an insane champion pool, and his mechanics are so out of this world, he mocks the opposition with awesome jabs at their obvious lack of skill, as he does his full rotation of skills in a perfect order. Imagine how good he would be if he didn't troll around! Also his farming is so good, he never misses a single CS! He is obviously way better than these famous players like Ocelote, Scarra, and Reginald. The difference in their mechanics is so obvious. Remember that time he outplayed Toyz when they met on the Korean Challenger League? When's the last time any of the players I listed did anything close to that? He is the greatest. I just know it."

It's stupid to state things like the above, because there's no point in spewing out your beliefs if you cannot back it up with proper arguments. I really can't see the difference in the uselessness of the statement above, and your method of rating AD carries in particular. Of course nobody can disprove your beliefs, but at the same time, there's no value at all in your statements at all because they are nothing but your personal beliefs. There's more to explaning why a certain players are better or worse than the other than putting random qualities you believe to be superior in certain players than the other. Do it in detail. Explain in which games you've watched in order to arrive to this conclusion, why these games back up your beliefs, and how the situation in the games allows you to judge the aspects of these players you noted accurately, and fairly.

Until you do so, some kid might as well start listing a random bunch of solo-que heroes people never heard of, but he thought were awesome when he watched them streaming, proceed to announce them as the greatest players ever because in vacuum they were better mechanically, with amazing decision making, and out of the world farming ability. How can you tell? Because he just knows after watching them. He just can tell. See how unproductive and time-wasting these kind of arguments can be?

On May 27 2013 13:52 wei2coolman wrote:


That's rather silly. There are plenty of ways to see obvious abilities in play;
Don't pass on your inability to rate other people's play onto everyone else.
There are obvious blatant benchmarks that are tall tell signs of which is better.
Ability to kite out opponent without taking damage, Ability to farm without pulling a doublelift and getting caught, Ability to play out level 2-3 in 2v2 botlane, Ability to deny in a 2v1 lane, Ability to push towers in 2v1 lane setups (especially in mid), Ability to move around the map. Ability to exert lane pressure after first turret, without getting caught. All these skills can be measured or seen.

Just because we aren't seeing direct X and Y matchups, doesn't mean we don't get a decent idea of how certain players rank. We can all rank on certain benchmarks that appear in game. And I don't even know how you can even defend yellowpete; his performance is markedly bad, ESPECIALLY in comparison to all the other ADC's in worlds.

On May 26 2013 09:01 ketchup wrote:


Wow. I'll try to be more descriptive with my commentary. Right now, it's a lot more color/random nonsense. So, I'll try to get some play by play if I remember about this. Didn't realize someone would be patient enough to read 200+ pages of this stuff. Hope you get the energy/hype behind some of the posts while reading. Personally, I skim most posts when a thread I follow goes beyond 10 pages. That is unless something catches my attention. I know how frustrating it can be with lack of detail in these threads. The SC2 LRs are very vague, and I sometimes read them to follow games when I am busy with other things.

On May 26 2013 12:01 onlywonderboy wrote:
For Jon Galt:

Toyz was getting out farmed and was probably going to lose. Toyz used Smite to push the wave when Misaya backed. Instead of fighting, Toyz just focused on the turret and used Barrier and took it down before Misaya could stop him.

On May 26 2013 12:43 ketchup wrote:
A bit late, but some summary: Both ADC+support are at mid lane. Though it wasn't streamed properly, Doublelift just lost first blood to MadLife. NA counters with a StV gank at mid, and successfully catches the Caitlyn due to running in the wrong direction from Madlife/Thresh. Ryze picks up the caitlyn kill.

On May 26 2013 16:41 UnKooL wrote:

Yep, I watched Cloudtemplar yesterday talk about the hardships MIG/Frost faced at the early days of LoL in Korea. Cloud said they lived in a very small room where the computers they played on were right next to/on top of? where they slept and the Coach spent a lot of his own personal money to finance the team and Gunwoong's father helped them financially later on. He also said when they added blaze to the team the room they practiced in only had 5 computers so one team would play at the house and the other would have to go to PC bangs to practice and scrim and they would switch every other day or so.

There is a lot of talk about infrastructure, but Frost didn't really benefit from Korean esports infrastructure at all when they first started, only when LoL started to catch on to mainstream gaming in Korea that infrastructure that was already in place like OGN and other sponsored pro teams helped to grow and foster amazing talent. So I don't really like it when people say that Korea is so good because it already has an esports infrastructure, yes it is a big part of it, but think of the pure passion and effort that a team like Frost/MIG put in to become who they are now. They faced a lot of hardships like many starting teams/organizations expanding different games like BW and SC2, and they don't benefit from the great "korean esports infastructure" until their passion for the game and their countless hours of practice at some point pays off and they gain recognition.

On May 27 2013 15:15 samurai80 wrote:

You guys are explaining well what is not the answer to the question "Why are koreans so gosu ?" that Azarkon was mentioning, but you actually don't give a clear answer.

Do you consider that the cultural thing (video game passion + eager to make a lot of efforts in training/strategy + taking everything seriously) is the main reason then ?

On May 27 2013 16:09 truemafia wrote:


There's several factors that goes into koreans winning all stars this year and people think they are gosu.
1) Solo Queue: Excluding the pro players, when you watch amateurs play in NA, most of them play casually/just got off work or school/idgaf mode compare to koreans where they aspire to master specific role so that they can enter local pc bang tournaments and go all the way to nlb which is the second division league in KR behind OGN.

2) Lack of Amateur League development: Unlike KR or even China, NA and EU haven't developed a consistent second division league in which amateurs can compete in weekly/monthly at a high level. I personally think NLB which is like a code A type of league in which teams can compete for OGN spots will make NA/EU have more structures on what to prepare for when given match date notice. Unfortunately, NA/EU do not have a basic structure of 1st division/2nd division system which make amateur teams casually play go4lols or like a MLG(which I think was bad) to practice going into LCS Splits. Riot Games will need to restructure how teams get promoted and how those teams can prepare for these promotion matches by giving them a league in which top 3 or 4 can get into the promotion series.

3) Console/PC: Most students/adults probably own both systems but I think reason why Koreans are strong in PC games in general is because most of them do not own consoles. Americans typically have a stronger userbase in console games than pc games which would seperate the playerbase and thus will have less competitive players/ratio in pc than korea.

4) Sponsership/Money/Cost of living: If NA competitive players were students and they had a choice in a degree in consultant, doctor opposed to gaming, most players would choose school for money but gaming for fun, exciting lifestyle. But if you live in korea and you were a top player in certain big games like sc2 or LoL as well as top student, they would choose 100% gaming unless the parents direct which career route you can choose. This is relevant to how money is involved because you can make a living off of playing video games in korea b/c cost of living is much less than the american cost of living. Sponsership is huge when discussing this issue because Korea attracts top companies like Samsung, LG, CJ, KT while NA attracts medium size companies like ibuypower, cooler master, razer, etc. So when you see NA, only 3 or 4 teams hold multiple sponsership of medium size companies while rest can barely attract one or two. But in Korea, if your a top division team you can find heavyweight companies like Samsung and pretty much be set for sponsership and not have to worry about additional money making strategy likes live streaming. Overall, this is due to NA esports at an infant stage but things could change.

On May 27 2013 23:51 Serelitz wrote:
Is American cost of living really higher than korean cost of living? For amateurs or people trying to break into the pro scene I mean. I find that really hard to believe.