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51509 Posts
On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly.
IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys).
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On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys).
Did any of you watch CLGL1nk's commentary on day 2 games? I thought they were super insightful, especially compared with the regular commentators.
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On May 26 2013 16:56 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 16:54 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:50 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:32 Vlanitak wrote:
not sure if playing devils advocate but: Dota 2, China and the Western scene is bigger in that than Korea. I cant think of a single Korean team (as a casual viewer) that has done well in Dota 2, Korea isnt the mecca for ALL esport. They are extremely good and have a really good infrastructure built around it, but they arent unbeatable. They don't play Dota 2. There's no way to judge a scene's ability in a game they don't have a large population of players for. But to play the devil's advocate myself, there is one genre where there are a lot of Korean players, but where they aren't the best country: FPS games. Instead, Sweden and other EU countries are the best in that game. I've yet to understand this myself, though I figure it does have to do with Kespa teams not being involved. Korea and Western countries play different kind of FPS games. I mean there's like only 1-5% of the population who play consoles here, so console fps games adpated to pc doesn't get much recognition in KOrea. They're just oblivious to it. But people here play Sudden attack or world of tanks now a days. Each country's FPS of choice is so different from country to country that you can't really compare the scenes. Yeah, but I think Koreans did play a lot of CS back in the day, and weren't the best at it.
I mean in America, Koreans might have been playing, but in Korea CS never really got that big. Sudden attack was still the popular FPS, or special force. And they go back to Counter strike days so... But still it would be interesting if all the countries were playing one fps game.
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Hey guys, any especially recommended matches during the final day? I've missed the whole thing.
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On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys).
We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse.
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United States23455 Posts
On May 26 2013 18:15 valaki wrote:
Hey guys, any especially recommended matches during the final day? I've missed the whole thing.
The finals were probably the most high level games of the weekends with a lot of cool stuff, but all four games on the final day were total stomps. But the last two were at least stylish stomps. NA/Korea was just kind of sad, you knew it was coming and this is how it's going to go stomps.
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On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse.
It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting.
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On May 26 2013 18:33 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse. It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting.
For what it's worth, since DoA and I started casting Champions for OGN, group stage numbers have gone from peak 15,000 to peak 45,000. Subscribers to the channel have also gone up by around 500%. Much of this is due to the production quality from OGN, the caliber of the teams, and the growing recognition of Korean LoL from English-speaking fans, but I'd like to think we had a little to do with it. 
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
The other allstars team are represented by the kid and the korean team is the cat
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o0wFPmX.gif)
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On May 26 2013 18:35 MonteCristo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:33 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:
[quote]
Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse. It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting. For what it's worth, since DoA and I started casting Champions for OGN, group stage numbers have gone from peak 15,000 to peak 45,000. Subscribers to the channel have also gone up by around 500%. Much of this is due to the production quality from OGN, the caliber of the teams, and the growing recognition of Korean LoL from English-speaking fans, but I'd like to think we had a little to do with it.
I got an OGN subscription since Champions 1, although I never watched it live due to university but I love you two as a casting-duo. I'd normally never pay for VODS but I appreciate the the best league in the world ( just like GSL back in the day when I followed Sc2) and OGN has shown tons of improvement in terms of production and streamquality ever since the infamous super lagging "720p" which was probably 360p stream days during the season clg.eu was participating :D.
Keep up the good work man, you're probably super happy korea won!
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On May 26 2013 18:35 MonteCristo wrote:For what it's worth, since DoA and I started casting Champions for OGN, group stage numbers have gone from peak 15,000 to peak 45,000. Subscribers to the channel have also gone up by around 500%. Much of this is due to the production quality from OGN, the caliber of the teams, and the growing recognition of Korean LoL from English-speaking fans, but I'd like to think we had a little to do with it.
Your casting is very insightful. And you bring the necessary hype, keep up the awesome work!
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On May 26 2013 18:33 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 15:50 Kiett wrote:
I wasn't sure, since the last time I watched CN vs KR teams was at IPL 5, where WE completely crushed all opposition, and the Azubu teams didn't even make it all that far. Thought CN would at least put up a fight. Has something has changed drastically in the last half year? Or was that just a lucky run for WE? Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse. It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting.
I love watching Korean casters even though I dont understand them is because of the epic screams(old habit from BW days) but I also love MonteCristo/Doa insight, there are some occasion when I watch OGN and totally surprise by how accurate their prediction and reasoning are.
I'd love to watch Monte/DoA casting with a little more screams. Keep up the good work Monte/DoA.
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On May 26 2013 18:35 MonteCristo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:33 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:
[quote]
Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse. It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting. For what it's worth, since DoA and I started casting Champions for OGN, group stage numbers have gone from peak 15,000 to peak 45,000. Subscribers to the channel have also gone up by around 500%. Much of this is due to the production quality from OGN, the caliber of the teams, and the growing recognition of Korean LoL from English-speaking fans, but I'd like to think we had a little to do with it.
To be honest, i was never a big fan of doa when he casted sc2. but now you two together are by far my favorite casters!
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MC carries Doa on his back a little but Doa doesn't hinder the cast at all and on a comedic level Doa is pretty awesome. Alone I would probably hate Doa casting whereas I could definitely enjoy MC casting alone but I think Doa tagging along with monte, filling in the gaps, saying "yes I agree, definitely" to everything MC says and providing little humorous quips every once in a while works well.
Why are we talking about Doa and MC again?
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On May 26 2013 06:19 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 05:00 wei2coolman wrote:On May 26 2013 03:23 overt wrote:On May 26 2013 02:17 Nitan wrote:
People are hating on yellowpete too much. I voted CandyPanda but I think the bot lane would have turned out the same regardless of who EU sent. Not gonna lie yellowpete was probably a bad choice. But at least EU can take solace in the fact that if NA sent any other ADC our chances of winning would've probably dropped by a lot. Lol. Nien, brunch u, wt, dont mashme, zuna, qtpie, all better than yellowpete. But could they carry as hard as dl? Dunno. Maybe nien and qtpie woulda worked. I've noticed a flaw in your way of arguing for the overall quality of North American AD carries, you always name a group of names you are familiar with, then go on to presume that because these players have been "eye-tested" by you, these players must be better than that (insert name here) player who you weren't too impressed by. It's like arguing against a religious person as an atheist, because almost everything you say is based on your beliefs alone, and you cannot disprove a belief, because there's always a loop-hole to escape every fact-based argument. It's a common way to argue for certain agendas, but it creates really shitty debates, please consider the below. We all have our biases. Even professional players have limited information and flawed opinions on each other, especially more so if they haven't played against them extensively. Yellowpete's laning strength, and overall visibility as a quality player has never been the most obvious, so there's always going to be assumptions made that certain players are of at a higher level than him even if they have never played against each other directly. Even when you point out specific games, and go in thorough detail how a certain player outperformed the other guy, you can only go so far with extrapolating your relative rating on those players because you never have enough information (what went on with the calls, the player's conditions, direct influence of fellow teammates' performances, if there were miscommunications etc), and you almost never have enough number of games to base your opinions on. Imagine how problematic it becomes if there's no games to even judge the players from, your opinions become next to useless. How many of those players you listed even played a single game against Yellowpete, never mind out performing him? Listing a random bunch of names who you consider to be of a certain standard, and making assumptions that they are of a higher standard than a player who you consider to be of a lower standard is a dangerous method of basing your opinion, a trap all of us are guilty of falling into.
They're all visibly better than yellowpete. Mechanically speaking they are far stronger than yellowpete. Their ability to carry and kite out a team fight is just a step above . Also in current meta aggressive adcs seem to reign king. Dont get me wrong. I understand yellowpete gets shafted by farm priorities on his team. But even so he's marketdly worse than cop who share same farm priority. And id name all those adc as better adcs then cop (in a vacuum)
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On May 26 2013 17:03 krndandaman wrote:
Eh... have you seen NBA players? They are some of the most athletic superhuman freaks in the world. That's genetics and I haven't seen any Chinese person with that freak of nature athleticism that I've seen in the NBA.
Well there was this one guy named Bruce Lee. You might've heard of him ...
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On May 26 2013 11:06 iKill[ShocK] wrote:
chauster better than madlife
wat.
Tbf he's judging it on their s2 ogn performance. And when chaulift was ib korea. No one really touched them in lane. Madlife better than chausrer though. He's just a more mechanically stronger support player. With that being said. Supposedly everyone hails chauster as the master of cheesy as fuck strategies.
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On May 26 2013 18:35 MonteCristo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 18:33 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On May 26 2013 18:19 MonteCristo wrote:On May 26 2013 17:40 GTR wrote:On May 26 2013 17:22 silencefc wrote:On May 26 2013 16:35 lefty wrote:On May 26 2013 16:26 thefreed wrote:On May 26 2013 16:20 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 26 2013 16:14 Azarkon wrote:On May 26 2013 16:07 NeoIllusions wrote:
[quote]
Koreans have much more individual talent, that's not even up for discussion. But why? The question is how do you answer this question. Saying that it's a matter of born talent doesn't work because Korea is a country of 50 million people while the rest of the world in eSports has 2-3 billion - ie China 1.3 billion, EU + NA 1.1 billion, SEA another 500 million. You don't just get that sort of RNG when it comes to born talent. It then has to be talent infrastructure and gaming culture. But what, exactly? I think I'm starting to work it out but I want to hear what others have to say. Oh, it's definitely not some bullshit like "oh, Koreans are born to be great at LoL". Fuck that. The top Korean teams (I'm talking about Blaze/Frost in particular), they practice a shitton, they discuss and strategize, and hone their skills to an art. Do people realize that Frost has made it to every OGN Finals thus far? That's 4 straight. It's obscene. And it all comes down to practice. Against NA, we saw it most vividly. Every one of Korea's lanes flat out dominated. Koreans take League serious as hell. There's no bullshitting when it comes to how they prepare. It all comes out to structure. Koreans know how to become competitive in Esports. Look at Street fighter or like KOF, starcraft. I mean they just have this down to a science. They know that they need a coach that can analyze see things from a cold, logical viewpoint. Also the teams they practice with, a lot of the teams have a scrim partner like Najin, CJ, MVP. And the level of the teams are all really high, so they build each other up and make them stronger. And LOL is really getting big in Korea, so a lot of people are playing it I think that has to factor in as well. Lastly, I really think NA and EU need a really good progamer commentating with them, cause after I heard CloudTemplar commentating, it just made me understand the game more indepth.
Also taking practicing long hours into account, it really depends on the teams. Like some teams in EU and NA practice as much as Koreans, but it's just they don't have a coach, and they're not using their time proficiently. If you had two teams under one club, then they could also get more opinions from the opponents stand point, but EU and NA don't really get as close as the Korean scene to help each other out. Taking all these things into account, is the reason why Korean scene is getting stronger faster then other regions... A word about proper analytical commentary, Cloud Templar always mentions what the losing team needs to do in great detail to turn the situation around or how we a winning team needs to snowball by doing this and that, and what each team needs to look out for. He is also is very frank about the decision made by the players throughout the game and their thought process behind it. I love it when how he mentions the "concept" behind some team composition and what they're going for. This I believe helps the common player very much as they get some insight on how pro's think and how the game should be played, No one from the English riot streams does this from my experience and I really never gain much from watching. Montecristo provides great analytical commentary, not on the level of CloudTemplar of course, but I think most people would appreciate it. Too bad OGN is so hard to watch regularly. IMO Doa/MonteCristo are the best English commentators out there, but from talking with someone who casts, it seems that their humor/casting style is a turn-off to many of the casual viewers (compared to the Riot guys). We know that OGN doesn't cater to a casual audience since we receive no promotion from Riot for the stream. Our style is intentionally crafted to appeal to more hardcore fans, for better or for worse. It is entirely for the better. Anyone that would rather listen to blathering nonsense, rather then something stimulating, is a fickle one. You do cater to a casual audience. Everyone benefits from insightful commentary. No one benefits from retarded screaming. The only reason why your numbers aren't super high, is an english speaking audience usually isn't awake when you're casting. For what it's worth, since DoA and I started casting Champions for OGN, group stage numbers have gone from peak 15,000 to peak 45,000. Subscribers to the channel have also gone up by around 500%. Much of this is due to the production quality from OGN, the caliber of the teams, and the growing recognition of Korean LoL from English-speaking fans, but I'd like to think we had a little to do with it.
Coming from someone who absolutely deplored the Moletrap / Doa duo back in the day, and as a result developed a heavy stigma towards each of them, I have to say that I have grown to be extremely fond of your pairing.
I've always had Joe-Deman as my all-time #1, as they genuinely add to my enjoyment of the games with a subliminal level of class that seems unique to EU casters. For some reason I personally can't help but be indifferent to the NA-riot casters. However your pairing has steadily risen to a very close second to the aforementioned. You guys have a childish(not in a bad way) enthusiasm for the games in the same vein as joe-deman, in addition to some very grounded and clear insights that I can really do appreciate.
Definitely a core reason for why I became a subscriber to OGN :D, keep up the fantastic work!
Just my rather partial two cents.
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Finished updating the OP for the last time... JBright, now I appreciate all your work man.
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No other region is used to dealing with such pressure on all lanes and objectives.
Congratulations, Korea.
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EPT
