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Yes, these games won't be OGN level. Watch how you express yourself when these players make poor plays.
~Neo 11.01.13 13:05PST |
On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic.
Did you forget m5 manhandled blaze? Or fnatic stomped tpa 4-0? Blaze isnt even close to frost the reason is always 3-2 is cause frost throws so hard + woong getting caught 24hour.
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On January 13 2013 06:12 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
SOLO QUEUE PLAYERS CHECK THIS OUT.
LOOK HOW MUCH ICEBORN GAUNTLET EZREAL IS BUILDING. NONE? OH SHOCK HORROR.
I seriously can't wait til big teams start playing in really important matches and NEVER build iceborn gauntlet, it's so fucking bad on Ezreal holy shit. This is such retarded posting. KT Score built IBG/Ionian on Ezreal. That just turns your entire whine to moot.
umad? huehue.
Okay, wheat and muffin need to cut their hair. That shit needs togo.
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On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider.
Yeah, I'm not too sure about the weaker korean teams - sometimes they fluctuate so widely in skill. Take GSG - they looked pretty weak in the beginning of Champions Winter, and largely relied on gimmicky strats, but rapidly improved towards the end of the season (S3 seems to suit them very well) and recently eliminated IM from NLB. MVP Blue/CJ Entus can challenge any team on a good day, but also have these terrible games where they just fall apart for no apparent reason - I'd expect most of my T3 teams to go about 45-50% against those.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything.
You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything.
They performed very well at IPL5 all things considered and have strong synergy. For instance, they almost eliminated Fnatic from Winner Bracket if they didn't throw.
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On January 13 2013 06:06 LOLItsRyann wrote:
SOLO QUEUE PLAYERS CHECK THIS OUT.
LOOK HOW MUCH ICEBORN GAUNTLET EZREAL IS BUILDING. NONE? OH SHOCK HORROR.
I seriously can't wait til big teams start playing in really important matches and NEVER build iceborn gauntlet, it's so fucking bad on Ezreal holy shit.
You are letting your emotional attachment to an item interfere with your rational judgement and it's making you look dumb
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United States37500 Posts
And please keep the international tier lists out of this thread. Use GD to discuss it if you want. It's too much of a tangent here.
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On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything.
By watching NA league last few months. Dig hasn't been around much and TSM has been under performing for awhile while Curse still has issues facing tougher opponents but is clearly better than everyone else.
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On January 13 2013 06:15 skykh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. Did you forget m5 manhandled blaze? Or fnatic stomped tpa 4-0? Blaze isnt even close to frost the reason is always 3-2 is cause frost throws so hard + woong getting caught 24hour.
Yeah, Blaze had an abhorrent showing at IPL 5, but they've proved - against far better competition - that they're a top team. fnatic stomped an unprepared TPA 4-0 with really well-prepared strategies at a tournament about a month ago. Since then, both teams changed their rosters, and TPA/TPS looked very good on the first playday of SWL. Can't say fnatic impressed me at IEM Cologne.
@ Moonbear: Which is why KT B, for me, is an S-Tier team. MVP White would have been a high second-tier team, but they lost their NLB match to NaJin Shield, not quite doing themselves a favor.
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On January 13 2013 06:16 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything. You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since?
I got word from Dyrus that TSM hasn't practiced as a team since worlds because everyone went on vacation or got sick or whatever. Expect them to start crushing people out of nowhere and everyone to be like "HOLY SHIT TSM COMEBACK"  .
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Lol I admit I giggled when the whole twitch chat suddenly screamed JACK BLACK when Muffin appeared in screen.
On January 13 2013 06:16 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything. You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since?
I got word from Dyrus that TSM hasn't practiced as a team since worlds because everyone went on vacation or got sick or whatever. Expect them to start crushing people out of nowhere and everyone to be like "HOLY SHIT TSM COMEBACK" .[/QUOTE]
As a TSM fan this saddens me, MLG was understandable because of the move and I-net issues but they promised to get their shit together for IPL5 but apparently didn't practise even though Scumbag Reginald uploaded a vlog saying that they scrimmed 12 hours a day for a week?.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:16 DragoonTT wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. Yeah, I'm not too sure about the weaker korean teams - sometimes they fluctuate so widely in skill. Take GSG - they looked pretty weak in the beginning of Champions Winter, and largely relied on gimmicky strats, but rapidly improved towards the end of the season (S3 seems to suit them very well) and recently eliminated IM from NLB. MVP Blue/CJ Entus can challenge any team on a good day, but also have these terrible games where they just fall apart for no apparent reason - I'd expect most of my T3 teams to go about 45-50% against those.
Consistency can be a problem for some of the other KR teams. But teams like MVP White and KT Rolster B have made a big impact in OGN Winter.
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On January 13 2013 06:16 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything. You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since?
Noone knows. Which is why placing CLG above them, with nothing but anecdotal CLG scrim results/whatever else you bring up is stupid. I like TSM/Dig/Curse - I dislike CLG. I still rate CLG even with the rest, based on the latest performances from all teams in what they have played. Yes, TSM/Dig are underperforming, but Curse have been playing better and better. By yango's logic they should be the same tier as CLG.
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Haha, that timing was perfect! Lulu's death scream was Zuna's victory scream. 
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United States47024 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:15 skykh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. Did you forget m5 manhandled blaze? Or fnatic stomped tpa 4-0? Blaze isnt even close to frost the reason is always 3-2 is cause frost throws so hard + woong getting caught 24hour.
You're using one event as a benchmark. Not really a good baseline.
Fnatic 4-0 TPA is almost certainy attributable to Fnatic's selection of playstyle/having a prepared strat against TPA. It's not necessarily indicative of their general performance against other teams.
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On January 13 2013 06:17 AsnSensation wrote:
Lol I admit I giggled when the whole twitch chat suddenly screamed JACK BLACK when Muffin appeared in screen.
speaking of twitch chat, can someone explain wtf the 2 shens stuff is all about?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:19 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything. You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since? Noone knows. Which is why placing CLG above them, with nothing but anecdotal CLG scrim results/whatever else you bring up is stupid. I like TSM/Dig/Curse - I dislike CLG. I still rate CLG even with the rest, based on the latest performances from all teams in what they have played. Yes, TSM/Dig are underperforming, but Curse have been playing better and better. By yango's logic they should be the same tier as CLG.
CLG putting results at tournaments like IPL5 is not the same level as other teams who haven't actually posted results. I don't see how this works. Are you sure you're not just letting your bias against CLG influence yourself here? At the same time, CLG has a style which works for them and they are comfortable using. They have a playstyle identity. That is more than can be said for certain other NA teams.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 13 2013 06:19 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:16 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 13 2013 06:13 Jamial wrote:On January 13 2013 06:10 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:56 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 TheYango wrote:On January 13 2013 05:47 DragoonTT wrote:On January 13 2013 05:44 Woony wrote:
I hope I don't incite something here but I've never seen any of these teams play, except for curse. How's the level of these tier two NA teams on a international scale? I know CLG/Dig/TSM always have been fairly confident against these teams but maybe things have changed. CLG on a good day is international tier 2. TSM, Dig, Curse international tier 3. A few weeks ago I'd also have sorted FeaR, MP, C9 and GGU in there, but due to all that roster changing and how the games at the Qualifier went up to now, they wouldn't even make international tier 3 for me. What international teams do you put in tier 1/2? Because Curse is definitively worse than WE.i-Rocks/now PE, and I would consider them a tier 3 team by international standards. Tier 1, for me: WE, Azubu Frost, KT B, Azubu Blaze Tier 2 (pretty wide area of skill): most OGN teams plus SKT T1, M5, ex-CLG.EU, CLG.NA on a good day. I'm not too informed about the Chinese teams - PE, iG, Royal Club could probably fit in here as well Tier 3: Curse, TSM, Dig, lower tier of OGN teams (GSG, MVP Blue, Team OP in current form etc.), second tier of european teams (MYM, Millenium, perhaps SK and alternate on a good day), possibly SGS and SJ Not sure about TPA/TPS - both teams have incredible potential. Also, I can't (both from lack of knowledge about new AD carry and as a fan) objetively rate fnatic. I think you're underrating some of the lower tier Korean teams, but other than that, our difference of opinion only comes from me distributing my tiers a bit wider. How do you justify CLG (I assume NA) being above tsm/dig/curse? - I don't get it. If you mean ex-clg.eu, sure, but CLG.NA is on equal footing with the rest of top NA teams. They are not above them, not below them (for the moment), but saying they're a full tier above seems like a fanboy statement if anything. You watch CLG in their games in the past month, it shows that they're ahead of their NA peers. I don't think it's fanboyism here. The main issue is that TSM and dig have under performed in the past 2-3 months. Have they improved since? Noone knows. Which is why placing CLG above them, with nothing but anecdotal CLG scrim results/whatever else you bring up is stupid. I like TSM/Dig/Curse - I dislike CLG. I still rate CLG even with the rest, based on the latest performances from all teams in what they have played. Yes, TSM/Dig are underperforming, but Curse have been playing better and better. By yango's logic they should be the same tier as CLG.
It's an opinion, don't take it so literally then.
And you're not really using Yango's logic. CLG crushed Crs a bunch of times this month as well.
This is all moot, if you will. It's just some opinions made by TL users. If you don't like CLG, kudos to you. Don't get all mad if some pro-CLG fans think they're better. You think they're on par with the rest of NA. We will see in Feb.
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Come on, bring the 2nd set, its 5AM for me already -_-.
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EPT
