Apparently, they are still investigating the tsm vs frost incident. Gonna be so mad if Riot gives into pressure and does something retarded (ie anything).
Riot, two days ago you came insanely close to damaging the competitive LoL scene in China.
Now you're dangerously close to doing the same in Korea.
Look at the state of post-BW E-sports in Korea. Look what the match-fixing scandal did to BW. The ostensible "best team in Korea" cannot afford to have a cheating scandal like this. The potential effect it could have on the sponsorship of Korean LoL as a whole is too dangerous.
I'm not taking a position on whether Frost cheated or not, or what if anything should be done if they did. With that out of the way, I think it's wrong to say Riot shouldn't even look into this on the hypothetical that it might hurt the scene in Korea. If the best team in Korea "cannot afford to have a cheating scandal", I really don't see how that's Riot's concern. Riot's concern should be to keep the integrity of their competitive scene as best they can. To me, taking a hard line on cheating (IF THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, AND IF THEY DO THE SAME FOR OTHER TEAMS FOUND GUILTY) is far more important than worrying how Korea will react to it.
(As an aside, and as someone who plays Magic: the Gathering competitively, I've always hated when people justify players cheating by saying better controls should have been in place. Yes, Riot screwed up by having a set-up where looking at the mini-map is possible. That does not justify any players actually doing so. If a player is found guilty of this, I'm willing to bet they apologize and acknowledge they shouldn't have looked, and they won't say it's Riot's fault for the set-up.)
On October 09 2012 13:13 Jaksiel wrote: I'm not taking a position on whether Frost cheated or not, or what if anything should be done if they did. With that out of the way, I think it's wrong to say Riot shouldn't even look into this on the hypothetical that it might hurt the scene in Korea. If the best team in Korea "cannot afford to have a cheating scandal", I really don't see how that's Riot's concern. Riot's concern should be to keep the integrity of their competitive scene as best they can. To me, taking a hard line on cheating (IF THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, AND IF THEY DO THE SAME FOR OTHER TEAMS FOUND GUILTY) is far more important than worrying how Korea will react to it.
It is Riot's concern because they care about LoL's business in Korea. Making a move that jeopardizes LoL in Korea is hugely relevant to their business.
This is the inherent conflict of interest that comes into play when the developer runs its own tournament.
the reason why riot won't and can't do anything about any suspected cheating doesn't really have anything to do with the future of esports, it's because they are the ones who fucked up doing something retarded like putting a real-time minimap in easy view of competing players. there is no one here to blame or punish but the people in charge of how the stage was set up.
Apparently, they are still investigating the tsm vs frost incident. Gonna be so mad if Riot gives into pressure and does something retarded (ie anything).
Riot, two days ago you came insanely close to damaging the competitive LoL scene in China.
Now you're dangerously close to doing the same in Korea.
Look at the state of post-BW E-sports in Korea. Look what the match-fixing scandal did to BW. The ostensible "best team in Korea" cannot afford to have a cheating scandal like this. The potential effect it could have on the sponsorship of Korean LoL as a whole is too dangerous.
If eSports like Starcraft and LoL suffer soo much from cheating, maybe it would be best for us to allow them to grow "naturally" instead of forcing the growth with a lot of money. Riot has done it single-handedly for LoL, but there are many many similar amonts of money going into SC2. It takes time to develop a "code of conduct" and we have seen from the illustrous Starcraft BM threads that we arent even close to that.
Sure, betting is outside the control of the organizations, but since the odds are important for matchfixing in a betting scheme, it works better in a controllable environment. In an amateur environment there would be no enticement to bet on player A, because you wouldnt surely know he was better than player B and even then player B could just have a bad day and lose anyways.
The important part about eSports is entertainment and personally I am more entertained by "weird stuff that fails or not" than by "perfectly timed builds which were practiced to the milisecond" and which are pretty predictable. That is - or rather was - the great appeal which TLO had as a Terran ...
On October 09 2012 03:48 BlackPaladin wrote: You knew the 10 esports videos were just overhyping shit though. It's an advertisement. Nerf guns go "THIS IS THE BEST TOY EVER." That doesn't mean you believe them....lol
They wanted to get a lot of people watching and actually turn this into a really big event. And with 500k people watching worldwide, they certainly did. And if tge hardware and internet problems didn't happen then it would have gone fairly well. But they did happen, and honestly, i thinks it's BETTER for Riot that it did. They can take all the mistakes they made, appologize, and FIX every single mistake. For them their learning experience can create good PR of "this is a company that will go out of its way to make sure things are done right, and will admit when they are wrong." I really hope they learn that they need booths though. They now at least understand they need LAN which is good.
The thing with Riot is they feel the insecure need to try to shit all over their competitors, what with the exclusivity bullshit and trash talking other eSports. Then they fall flat on their face with a horribly run event.
They need to take a page from Valve, who quietly and professionally went about their way and produced a tournament a million times better than the crap Riot put out (not to mention Valve hosted a monstrously better tourney BEFORE Riot's tourney, which makes Riot look even worse).
Especially disturbing when you read stuff like this and remember that these people are now on Riots payroll.
people on reddit saying Saint and Dyrus both mentioned on their streams that TSM and Frost will have a rematch on Wednesday.
hmmmmmm
If this is true I'm actually really disappointed in Riot. There was evidence that pointed towards someone from TPA looking at the monitor in the Najin game. Probably won't have a remake for that game either though.
Really silly that Riot caved. Don't even want to know what will happen if TSM wins.
edit: Ugh, when I think about it players could bring all kinds of shit up. Ocelote hints in his post that he thinks iG looked at the mini-map in their games too. Why is TSM getting special treatment in this???
edit2: Reginald confirmed on his AMA that there won't be a re-match.
On October 09 2012 03:48 BlackPaladin wrote: You knew the 10 esports videos were just overhyping shit though. It's an advertisement. Nerf guns go "THIS IS THE BEST TOY EVER." That doesn't mean you believe them....lol
They wanted to get a lot of people watching and actually turn this into a really big event. And with 500k people watching worldwide, they certainly did. And if tge hardware and internet problems didn't happen then it would have gone fairly well. But they did happen, and honestly, i thinks it's BETTER for Riot that it did. They can take all the mistakes they made, appologize, and FIX every single mistake. For them their learning experience can create good PR of "this is a company that will go out of its way to make sure things are done right, and will admit when they are wrong." I really hope they learn that they need booths though. They now at least understand they need LAN which is good.
The thing with Riot is they feel the insecure need to try to shit all over their competitors, what with the exclusivity bullshit and trash talking other eSports. Then they fall flat on their face with a horribly run event.
They need to take a page from Valve, who quietly and professionally went about their way and produced a tournament a million times better than the crap Riot put out (not to mention Valve hosted a monstrously better tourney BEFORE Riot's tourney, which makes Riot look even worse).
Especially disturbing when you read stuff like this and remember that these people are now on Riots payroll.
Well I can believe what they're saying. It's not like Riot is intentionally trying to screw up or mistreat their players but IMO they need to shut the fuck up with their "we smash the competitors" shit when it's clear that Valve and DotA 2 (still in BETA) are outclassing them in every single aspect from the client (which is INFINITELY better) to the million dollar tournament.
Riot is not a truly horrible and shit tier company like HoN's S2 is, they are genuine and obviously care about their game, their fans, and getting it right. However they need to realize that as popular as their game is they can't even approach the quality of Valve right now. It's just all their hype and acting like they are the class of the genre really wears thin when their product is very clearly inferior right now.
I believe Riot has great intentions at heart and what they're doing for their game is awesome but it's obvious their enormous success has them in over their heads right now. Which is understandable, even as big as LoL and Tencent are, Riot is still a pretty new company without the experience or personnel that Valve can boast. It's a learning process. With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.
Lets just hope they have fixed the location for the next matches and maybe even move the teams to a room somewhere or at least put a wall behind them. Being able to see the audience is both bad for them as a distraction and opens up more avenues for cheating, so it is less important to have the players "in sight" while the game is being played. After all - for a grand finals - the results of the games is the most important thing and not the viewing experience of the few people on site (compared the the thousands at home they make up a tiny part).
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote: With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.
What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote: With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.
What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?
People don't like what morello said about invoker.
I think that's the only time a rioter has said something "negative" about dota. I think.....not really sure about anything else.. Maybe the zileas thread about the dota style pick ban system?
Riot definitely knows that it's roots are from dota, i mean hell xypherous has said that nautilus is an homage to tidehunter lol.
edit2: Reginald confirmed on his AMA that there won't be a re-match.
TSM has the biggest fanbase and the most vocal on forums such as reddit. Anything Reginald says I discard atm till confirmed by others. His 'I quit'-drama was about as lame as a 13 year old girl announcing her life is over after breaking up with her BF on facebook...
I really hope they dont rematch. Both teams looked, and TSM got outplayed on every front, that didnt have much to do with looking imo
EPT
