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[S2] World Championships Discussion - Page 607

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.

Fair warning to all.
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 12:07:42
October 09 2012 12:00 GMT
#12121
nvm, dyrus mastertroll
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 09 2012 12:08 GMT
#12122
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.
Off-season = best season
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
October 09 2012 12:11 GMT
#12123
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.



also you should have quoted my other paragraph, which explains it. But forget it, dyrus was just trolling anyways.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 09 2012 12:14 GMT
#12124
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?
Off-season = best season
DragoonTT
Profile Joined April 2012
3398 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 12:17:03
October 09 2012 12:16 GMT
#12125
On October 09 2012 21:14 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?

The "video evidence" is shaky at best, and if TSM didn't have a million fanboys making reading the boards or reddit hell at the moment, people probably wouldn't even care any more. Riot referees on stage decided there was no cheating, and only started "investigating" after TSM claimed there was cheating involved and the shitstorm broke loose. Seriously, isn't it a little biased to instantly condemn Frost and take everything TSM says about possible cheating at face value?!
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
October 09 2012 12:18 GMT
#12126
On October 09 2012 13:13 Jaksiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 12:14 TheYango wrote:
On October 09 2012 09:50 Goshawk. wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30027558#30027558

Apparently, they are still investigating the tsm vs frost incident. Gonna be so mad if Riot gives into pressure and does something retarded (ie anything).

Riot, two days ago you came insanely close to damaging the competitive LoL scene in China.

Now you're dangerously close to doing the same in Korea.

Look at the state of post-BW E-sports in Korea. Look what the match-fixing scandal did to BW. The ostensible "best team in Korea" cannot afford to have a cheating scandal like this. The potential effect it could have on the sponsorship of Korean LoL as a whole is too dangerous.


I'm not taking a position on whether Frost cheated or not, or what if anything should be done if they did. With that out of the way, I think it's wrong to say Riot shouldn't even look into this on the hypothetical that it might hurt the scene in Korea. If the best team in Korea "cannot afford to have a cheating scandal", I really don't see how that's Riot's concern. Riot's concern should be to keep the integrity of their competitive scene as best they can. To me, taking a hard line on cheating (IF THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, AND IF THEY DO THE SAME FOR OTHER TEAMS FOUND GUILTY) is far more important than worrying how Korea will react to it.

(As an aside, and as someone who plays Magic: the Gathering competitively, I've always hated when people justify players cheating by saying better controls should have been in place. Yes, Riot screwed up by having a set-up where looking at the mini-map is possible. That does not justify any players actually doing so. If a player is found guilty of this, I'm willing to bet they apologize and acknowledge they shouldn't have looked, and they won't say it's Riot's fault for the set-up.)


You are reading it the wrong way. It's not that actual cheating / punishment is problematic. The problem is the way they are handling this accusation. They don't seem to realize that the damage is already done by dragging out their 'investigation.' Only thing worth investigating from last week's event is how incompetent Riot's preparation has been and who was responsible.

Trust me, any Korean caught cheating will be crucified by angry Korean fans before Riot / foreign fans have their chance.
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
October 09 2012 12:20 GMT
#12127
if the stage screen was delayed by 10 seconds as i read in this thread earlier, all this evidence evaporates anyways since the ping was then before he allegedly watched the map.
seanisgrand
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1039 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 12:20:52
October 09 2012 12:20 GMT
#12128
To be fair, the way this tournament was handled regarding booths, noise prevention, video board etc.. it doesn't really mean anything that a referee says there was no cheating. If Riot wasn't studious enough to prepare a proper tournament environment, there can be no faith that their referees were even given a good outline of things to look for and be aware of.

This is well below quality expected of a post in any forum. -Empyrean
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 09 2012 12:21 GMT
#12129
On October 09 2012 21:16 DragoonTT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:14 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?

The "video evidence" is shaky at best, and if TSM didn't have a million fanboys making reading the boards or reddit hell at the moment, people probably wouldn't even care any more. Seriously, isn't it a little biased to instantly condemn Frost and take everything TSM says about possible cheating at face value?!

TSM is the team I dislike most in all of the finals. My posting history pretty much shows this.

Still its a fact that a Frost player tilted his head towards the mini-map and immediatly afterwards the position of the TSM players on the map was pinged, screwing up their lvl 1. That people dont want to see this seems to be a case of anti-TSM bias, or fear to be mistaken for obnoxious TSM fans.

That said, I believe TSM would have lost anyways, because they got outplayed the whole series and Frost was the much better team.
Off-season = best season
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 12:24:07
October 09 2012 12:23 GMT
#12130
On October 09 2012 21:16 DragoonTT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:14 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?

The "video evidence" is shaky at best, and if TSM didn't have a million fanboys making reading the boards or reddit hell at the moment, people probably wouldn't even care any more. Riot referees on stage decided there was no cheating, and only started "investigating" after TSM claimed there was cheating involved and the shitstorm broke loose. Seriously, isn't it a little biased to instantly condemn Frost and take everything TSM says about possible cheating at face value?!

"Shaky at best" tell me more about that please. There is a video, we see a guy watching the screen, then there is a ping in the dark, then there is both maokai and mf going in TSM's jungle like they know there is nobody in there, please tell me how is it shaky.
At least, saying WE or any other team cheated is shaky, but the evidences against frost are pretty huge. Jayce checking the bush is completly normal, but at best he could have known that one person was there, it's not enough for MF to pass the tribush nor for maokai to body check wraith.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
October 09 2012 12:27 GMT
#12131
On October 09 2012 21:21 Redox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:16 DragoonTT wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:14 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?

The "video evidence" is shaky at best, and if TSM didn't have a million fanboys making reading the boards or reddit hell at the moment, people probably wouldn't even care any more. Seriously, isn't it a little biased to instantly condemn Frost and take everything TSM says about possible cheating at face value?!

TSM is the team I dislike most in all of the finals. My posting history pretty much shows this.

Still its a fact that a Frost player tilted his head towards the mini-map and immediatly afterwards the position of the TSM players on the map was pinged, screwing up their lvl 1. That people dont want to see this seems to be a case of anti-TSM bias, or fear to be mistaken for obnoxious TSM fans.

That said, I believe TSM would have lost anyways, because they got outplayed the whole series and Frost was the much better team.

TSM's invade was screwed the moment Shy picked Jayce. It was obvious that he would be checking the bush, because that's what Frost has been doing the entire tournament. It was nothing special, although I can see how it would be shocking for TSM to see someone actually not face-check.
NHY
Profile Joined October 2010
1013 Posts
October 09 2012 13:12 GMT
#12132
On October 09 2012 21:23 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 21:16 DragoonTT wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:14 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:11 LaNague wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:08 Redox wrote:
On October 09 2012 21:00 LaNague wrote:
im mad, this incompetence is ridiculous.
This head referee Riot guy allready stated they had referees for every player and none of them saw anyone cheating.
Now they say frost cheated?

Everybody says Frost cheated. Because there is video evidence that is pretty much unrefutable.

But it seems like they will do nothing about it, so I dont quite get where you are coming from.



you probably missed riots first statement, which was that they had a referee for every player and watched them at all times and there was no cheating.
Only a few reddit posts later they suddenly forgot about that statement.

I didnt forget that statement at all. Obviously the referee thought there was no cheating, otherwise he would not have made such a bold statement. Later video evidence emerged, showing that he was wrong. So of course at this point he can not hold this statement up. At which point is this hard to understand?

The "video evidence" is shaky at best, and if TSM didn't have a million fanboys making reading the boards or reddit hell at the moment, people probably wouldn't even care any more. Riot referees on stage decided there was no cheating, and only started "investigating" after TSM claimed there was cheating involved and the shitstorm broke loose. Seriously, isn't it a little biased to instantly condemn Frost and take everything TSM says about possible cheating at face value?!

"Shaky at best" tell me more about that please. There is a video, we see a guy watching the screen, then there is a ping in the dark, then there is both maokai and mf going in TSM's jungle like they know there is nobody in there, please tell me how is it shaky.
At least, saying WE or any other team cheated is shaky, but the evidences against frost are pretty huge. Jayce checking the bush is completly normal, but at best he could have known that one person was there, it's not enough for MF to pass the tribush nor for maokai to body check wraith.

Case in point. First TSM point to Jayce, then they try to create more evidence.
CROrens
Profile Joined May 2007
Croatia1005 Posts
October 09 2012 13:13 GMT
#12133
On October 09 2012 18:27 Keniji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote:
With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.


What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?


Allegedly they tried to force tournament hosts to only have 1 ARTS game (in other words, you dont let DotA 2 on your tournament or we go away with our money). Of course it was covered up by Riot later on, but many sources confirm it. If it really is true it was a really really cheap shot by riot.
There is no problem that cannot be solved by the use of high explosives. - Anonymous ......||......Hyuk fan! \o/
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22700 Posts
October 09 2012 13:16 GMT
#12134
On October 09 2012 22:13 CROrens wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 18:27 Keniji wrote:
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote:
With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.


What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?


Allegedly they tried to force tournament hosts to only have 1 ARTS game (in other words, you dont let DotA 2 on your tournament or we go away with our money). Of course it was covered up by Riot later on, but many sources confirm it. If it really is true it was a really really cheap shot by riot.


And i dont see what the problem is. Riot sponsering a tournament for a lot of money. taking care of a lot of things (shoutcasters/tech team on standby/price money). It saves a tournament money and they dont want that money to then get send to there competitor. No one is stopping anyone from running both Dota2/Hon and LoL. you just dont get the Riot bonusses.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 13:21:12
October 09 2012 13:20 GMT
#12135
On October 09 2012 22:16 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 22:13 CROrens wrote:
On October 09 2012 18:27 Keniji wrote:
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote:
With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.


What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?


Allegedly they tried to force tournament hosts to only have 1 ARTS game (in other words, you dont let DotA 2 on your tournament or we go away with our money). Of course it was covered up by Riot later on, but many sources confirm it. If it really is true it was a really really cheap shot by riot.


And i dont see what the problem is. Riot sponsering a tournament for a lot of money. taking care of a lot of things (shoutcasters/tech team on standby/price money). It saves a tournament money and they dont want that money to then get send to there competitor. No one is stopping anyone from running both Dota2/Hon and LoL. you just dont get the Riot bonusses.


no, this is wrong, riot has 100% control over LoL usage, you cant do a bigger tournament without them approving.
its the 100% opposite from broodwar and im pretty sure they deliberately set it up this way because of the kespa-blizzard relationship.
you think tournament organizers WANT phreak and rivington casting?
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
October 09 2012 13:24 GMT
#12136
On October 09 2012 22:20 LaNague wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2012 22:16 Gorsameth wrote:
On October 09 2012 22:13 CROrens wrote:
On October 09 2012 18:27 Keniji wrote:
On October 09 2012 15:30 Curu wrote:
With that in mind they need to curb their passive aggressive (and sometimes downright aggressive) attacks on the other games in the genre and focus on getting their own stuff right first. I don't know if all that crap stems from someone like Pendragon (who has a history of such bullshit) or if it's a company-wide thing but they really should stop looking at putting down other people's games and get their own stuff in order.


What are they doing? This stuff came up all the time in the dota 2 vs riot thread in the dota 2 forum as well. I have never read something from riot that aggressively or even passive aggressively attacked dota2/valve. I mean, I just play the game sometimes and watch the big tournaments so I don't know that's why I'm honestly asking what riot is actually doing?


Allegedly they tried to force tournament hosts to only have 1 ARTS game (in other words, you dont let DotA 2 on your tournament or we go away with our money). Of course it was covered up by Riot later on, but many sources confirm it. If it really is true it was a really really cheap shot by riot.


And i dont see what the problem is. Riot sponsering a tournament for a lot of money. taking care of a lot of things (shoutcasters/tech team on standby/price money). It saves a tournament money and they dont want that money to then get send to there competitor. No one is stopping anyone from running both Dota2/Hon and LoL. you just dont get the Riot bonusses.


no, this is wrong, riot has 100% control over LoL usage, you cant do a bigger tournament without them approving.
its the 100% opposite from broodwar and im pretty sure they deliberately set it up this way because of the kespa-blizzard relationship.
you think tournament organizers WANT phreak and rivington casting?

You can do a bigger LoL tournament, if you pay for it yourself. If Riot pays for it, of course they also have a say in it.

And there were plenty of tournaments without the Riot casters.
Off-season = best season
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
October 09 2012 14:03 GMT
#12137
On October 08 2012 23:13 DOUDOU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2012 22:45 Chexx wrote:
On October 08 2012 22:21 SkelA wrote:
When I watched TI2 for Dota2 in the booths there were 3 ppl standing behind eache team at all time.


http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29971787#29971787
"Players make eye contact on stage fairly regularly"

it's impressive how easily the community swallows the shameless doublespeak of riot


That red post has ~2K downvotes
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
DOUDOU
Profile Joined October 2011
Wales2940 Posts
October 09 2012 14:18 GMT
#12138
On October 09 2012 23:03 Praetorial wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2012 23:13 DOUDOU wrote:
On October 08 2012 22:45 Chexx wrote:
On October 08 2012 22:21 SkelA wrote:
When I watched TI2 for Dota2 in the booths there were 3 ppl standing behind eache team at all time.


http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29971787#29971787
"Players make eye contact on stage fairly regularly"

it's impressive how easily the community swallows the shameless doublespeak of riot


That red post has ~2K downvotes

and that one http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2655300 that totally ignore the fact that the lead referee said there was no cheating has 900upvotes
Feast | Grubby | Mvp | Polt | Fantasy | Last | MMA | forGG | Leenock | Soberphano | Scarlett cutiepie
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
October 09 2012 14:24 GMT
#12139
The first priority of any competition should be that the integrity of the competition is not compromised.

Once that fails, all fail.

The fact that these accusations are even being flung around is a testament to Riot failing to prioritize correctly.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
October 09 2012 14:30 GMT
#12140
What has the world come to when 'facts' are being based on what post has more upvotes...
KCCO!
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