EPT[IEM] Guangzhou Discussion - Page 115
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:08 emucxg wrote: no offense... Some one-side story from chinese 1.HoshotGG spied on ehome, iG's monitor to ghost their strategy...(which was against rules, because when ehome and iG members went to watch CLG's game, they got stopped by ESL referee saying its against rules) 2. iG got fucked by ESL referee and discs... firstly, they were leading their group 2-0... and they went to ask for referee what happens if the group goes break-tie... the referee was like "i have no clue trololol", and then gave them wrong information, so iG member thought they were guaranteed to Semi-Finals... Well, everyone have seen how it went, iG huge lead against SK, then 9000 discs in the game, and they lost the game... after the game referee told iG that you guys are out, because you guys lost too fast, if you can hold 1 minute more, you would be 2nd place of your group, if you can hold 4 minute, you would be 1, but because you guys lost too soon, you get 3rd place of your group. all iG members were shocked, and like WDF, what the heck rule is that. if they knew that, they would definitely put our all effort to hold the game, 1 minute is not that long. not to mention they got DC and didnt get a rematch lol. Now Chinese ppl are mad and they think Chinese team got scammed, well at least referees are biased, and they assume ESL dont wanna see Chinese vs Chinese Finals because they would lose their viewers... Xpecial also made a post on Riot forum http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1312100&highlight=xpecial That's some nice drama. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:08 emucxg wrote: no offense... Some one-side story from chinese 1.HoshotGG spied on ehome, iG's monitor to ghost their strategy...(which was against rules, because when ehome and iG members went to watch CLG's game, they got stopped by ESL referee saying its against rules) Source? I'm not doubting you, I just don't wanna give into hearsay. And yeah, iG was dicked out of the semi-finals. They were a stronger team than eHome and SK. Hm, I wonder if they ran that double AD thinking they were guaranteed a spot in the finals? | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:09 NeoIllusions wrote: Give NA Junglers enough farm and they turn out to be a 3rd carry for their team. I've yet to see a farmed EU Jungler. The build that Snoopeh went for on Gangplank was kinda dumb I think (opened with Wriggles, Mercs, Chain Vest + Negatron). Why pick an AD jungler like GP if you're just going to build straight tank? | ||
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toastymow
United States254 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:08 emucxg wrote: no offense... Some one-side story from chinese 1.HoshotGG spied on ehome, iG's monitor to ghost their strategy...(which was against rules, because when ehome and iG members went to watch CLG's game, they got stopped by ESL referee saying its against rules) If the referees didn't stop Hotshot, its not Hotshot's fault. IMO. Its a tournament, you expect people not to look for advantages? iG got fucked by ESL referee and discs... firstly, they were leading their group 2-0... and they went to ask for referee what happens if the group goes break-tie... the referee was like "i have no clue trololol", and then gave them wrong information, so iG member thought they were guaranteed to Semi-Finals... Well, everyone have seen how it went, iG huge lead against SK, then 9000 discs in the game, and they lost the game... after the game referee told iG that you guys are out, because you guys lost too fast, if you can hold 1 minute more, you would be 2nd place of your group, if you can hold 4 minute, you would be 1, but because you guys lost too soon, you get 3rd place of your group. all iG members were shocked, and like WDF, what the heck rule is that. if they knew that, they would definitely put their all effort to hold the game, 1 minute is not that long. not to mention they got DC and didnt get a rematch lol. A) everyone Got DC first day. Doesn't make it completely fair, but, everyone got DC B) Zenon said that the rules about ties were clearly in the rules. Maybe they weren't at Dreamhack, maybe Xpecial didn't read the rules at Gamescom, but Zenon said they are in the rules. If you didn't read the rules then that's your problem. I'm assuming they had Chinese/English/German/French (whatever language need, basically) copies of the rules. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:09 NeoIllusions wrote: Give NA Junglers enough farm and they turn out to be a 3rd carry for their team. I've yet to see a farmed EU Jungler. That is really odd. It does seem like eu tends to play the jungle like a throwaway position, either a support tank like amumu or a support kinda dps like gp. But ya, in both cases it is very rare for them to have an offensive role on the team. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Flicky
England2668 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:21 toastymow wrote: If the referees didn't stop Hotshot, its not Hotshot's fault. IMO. Its a tournament, you expect people not to look for advantages? A) everyone Got DC first day. Doesn't make it completely fair, but, everyone got DC B) Zenon said that the rules about ties were clearly in the rules. Maybe they weren't at Dreamhack, maybe Xpecial didn't read the rules at Gamescom, but Zenon said they are in the rules. If you didn't read the rules then that's your problem. I'm assuming they had Chinese/English/German/French (whatever language need, basically) copies of the rules. This may not be true in this case, but the amount of times esports competitors have had issues with tournaments because they didn't read all the rules properly is too many to count. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:21 toastymow wrote: B) Zenon said that the rules about ties were clearly in the rules. Maybe they weren't at Dreamhack, maybe Xpecial didn't read the rules at Gamescom, but Zenon said they are in the rules. If you didn't read the rules then that's your problem. I'm assuming they had Chinese/English/German/French (whatever language need, basically) copies of the rules. According to Xpecial he has never even seen the ESL rules and has no idea where he can read them. You can't fault teams for not reading the rules when the rules aren't presented. You also should expect your ESL admins to know the rules for when teams have questions. iG played better in group stage than SK and eHome, straight up. It's really a shame they got eliminated because I think they probably would've beaten WE too. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:25 overt wrote: According to Xpecial he has never even seen the ESL rules and has no idea where he can read them. You can't fault teams for not reading the rules when the rules aren't presented. You also should expect your ESL admins to know the rules for when teams have questions. iG played better in group stage than SK and eHome, straight up. It's really a shame they got eliminated because I think they probably would've beaten WE too. Has he ever asked the ESL admins to see a copy of the rules? The burden is on you to get the rules and if you can't find them if you don't ask it's also your fault. The admins of a tournament shouldn't babysit everybody playing and check to see if they read the rules. The referee not knowing the rules is a bit sad, but people make mistakes. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:22 NeoIllusions wrote: To me, EU Jungle is just a ganking support. They don't really counter jungle or DPS. I don't understand why they would try for this. Against good players I feel like it's a lot harder to get successful ganks than it is to just farm your jungle and counter jungle. | ||
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:21 toastymow wrote: If the referees didn't stop Hotshot, its not Hotshot's fault. IMO. Its a tournament, you expect people not to look for advantages? A) everyone Got DC first day. Doesn't make it completely fair, but, everyone got DC B) Zenon said that the rules about ties were clearly in the rules. Maybe they weren't at Dreamhack, maybe Xpecial didn't read the rules at Gamescom, but Zenon said they are in the rules. If you didn't read the rules then that's your problem. I'm assuming they had Chinese/English/German/French (whatever language need, basically) copies of the rules. you have some point, but you got this wrong. 1. They didnt blame hotshotgg, they didnt blame CLG, they didnt blame SK... simply they just think ESL referees are bad...like REAL bad (hotshotnidaleegg fans calm down) 2. Zenon is from Riot, not ESL, Chinese loves Riot, Chinese loves Chinese company. 3. The disc is unfortunate but it only took a little part why they are mad. 4. The rule cannot be found from anywhere, either ESL page nor Riot. OR atleast its very very hard to find. 5. The rule is retarded. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:31 arnath wrote: I don't understand why they would try for this. Against good players I feel like it's a lot harder to get successful ganks than it is to just farm your jungle and counter jungle. Probably because they expect to have the mid, top, and AD bot fill the "carry" positions and having a 4th carry is spreading your farm somewhat thin. The thing is, though, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having more supportive solo laners (such as common US picks like Galio or Zilean) that can cede some farm after getting their core items online. Just because the jungle inherently doesn't have a lot of farm doesn't mean that a jungler can't fill a carry role after picking up some farm midgame (something that Saintvicious is very good about doing). | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:30 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Has he ever asked the ESL admins to see a copy of the rules? The burden is on you to get the rules and if you can't find them if you don't ask it's also your fault. The admins of a tournament shouldn't babysit everybody playing and check to see if they read the rules. The referee not knowing the rules is a bit sad, but people make mistakes. I guess they could ask an ESL admin but the fact that no one seems to be able to find these rules leads me to believe that they don't have them written in stone somewhere. I honestly think they didn't consider a tie and when it happened they just figured, "k let's do it like this." And yeah, ESL in general has a pretty bad rep among the pro teams. I know that TSM and CLG have both said they don't like ESL refs or how ESL is run. edit: I just happen to think that ESL should make their rules easily accessible for players. Making players go out of their way to find the rules is unprofessional. | ||
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:39 overt wrote: I guess they could ask an ESL admin but the fact that no one seems to be able to find these rules leads me to believe that they don't have them written in stone somewhere. I honestly think they didn't consider a tie and when it happened they just figured, "k let's do it like this." And yeah, ESL in general has a pretty bad rep among the pro teams. I know that TSM and CLG have both said they don't like ESL refs or how ESL is run. edit: I just happen to think that ESL should make their rules easily accessible for players. Making players go out of their way to find the rules is unprofessional. In general, bigger tournaments tend to have more "bad" referees since a lot of them may mainly ref other games and have to fill in a role for LoL. For instance, I believe Shawn (ESL admin who has posted in this thread) mainly does SC2 but he's in charge of LoL as well for this event. I'm sure that ESL has the rules written down somewhere but I agree that it's very hard for people to navigate their site. | ||
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toastymow
United States254 Posts
1.HoshotGG spied on ehome, iG's monitor to ghost their strategy...(which was against rules, because when ehome and iG members went to watch CLG's game, they got stopped by ESL referee saying its against rules) If the referees didn't stop Hotshot, its not Hotshot's fault. IMO. Its a tournament, you expect people not to look for advantages? iG got fucked by ESL referee and discs... firstly, they were leading their group 2-0... and they went to ask for referee what happens if the group goes break-tie... the referee was like "i have no clue trololol", and then gave them wrong information, so iG member thought they were guaranteed to Semi-Finals... Well, everyone have seen how it went, iG huge lead against SK, then 9000 discs in the game, and they lost the game... after the game referee told iG that you guys are out, because you guys lost too fast, if you can hold 1 minute more, you would be 2nd place of your group, if you can hold 4 minute, you would be 1, but because you guys lost too soon, you get 3rd place of your group. all iG members were shocked, and like WDF, what the heck rule is that. if they knew that, they would definitely put their all effort to hold the game, 1 minute is not that long. not to mention they got DC and didnt get a rematch lol. A) everyone Got DC first day. Doesn't make it completely fair, but, everyone got DC B) Zenon said that the rules about ties were clearly in the rules. Maybe they weren't at Dreamhack, maybe Xpecial didn't read the rules at Gamescom, but Zenon said they are in the rules. If you didn't read the rules then that's your problem. I'm assuming they had Chinese/English/German/French (whatever language need, basically) copies of the rules. [/QUOTE] you have some point, but you got this wrong. 1. They didnt blame hotshotgg, they didnt blame CLG, they didnt blame SK... simply they just think ESL referees are bad...like REAL bad (hotshotnidaleegg fans calm down) Still doesn't matter. If CLG didn't get caught "cheating" then its the refs fault. 2. Zenon is from Riot, not ESL, Chinese loves Riot, Chinese loves Chinese company. Your point? Zenon isn't ESL, he asked ESL about the rules. 3. The disc is unfortunate but it only took a little part why they are mad. Ok. 4. The rule cannot be found from anywhere, either ESL page nor Riot. OR atleast its very very hard to find. On the internet. What about at the tourenment? What about emails to the teams? We don't know what kind of information has been given to the players that we don't have. 5. The rule is retarded. Hardly relevant since the rules are the rules. If you don't like the rules don't play. I agree its a bad rule, but that's not the point | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:46 toastymow wrote: Still doesn't matter. If CLG didn't get caught "cheating" then its the refs fault. i would like to point out what great esportsmanship this is | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
I really hope there isn't a rule against watching the other players' games. I mean we can clearly see on the stream that CLG and others were watching the Chinese semifinals, I don't see why the Chinese weren't allowed to watch games. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On October 05 2011 08:30 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Has he ever asked the ESL admins to see a copy of the rules? The burden is on you to get the rules and if you can't find them if you don't ask it's also your fault. The admins of a tournament shouldn't babysit everybody playing and check to see if they read the rules. The referee not knowing the rules is a bit sad, but people make mistakes. Perhaps the burden is on the teams to know the rules, but it is completely unprofessional for ESL to not make sure that the rules are known beforehand. In real life scenarios, burdens are the bare minimum of duty. Oftentimes, professional responsibility extends further than mere duty, and this is one example. Edit: The point is, though, that iG did actually ask about the rules and they got an incorrect reply from an ESL referee. Whether or not you want to argue that iG should have asked for a rule book in hindsight does not change the fact that ESL is vicariously liable for this stupid mess. It shouldn't matter that iG didn't use every single opportunity to insure themselves against obscure rules, they had done all that was reasonably necessary in their position. ESL, as tournament organisers, should have made their rules completely available and completely known, so that the players can focus on preparation and gameplay. Is it asking too much to want any professionalism at all in this industry? | ||
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