• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:36
CEST 16:36
KST 23:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 29525 users

Reading minion waves?

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
Post a Reply
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
October 20 2015 13:39 GMT
#1
I noticed lately when checking out replays and really paying attention to vods, that high level junglers just magically seem to be able to convert every single gank.

They just walk straight from the camp they were just doing into a lane, the laner is magically in the worst possible position and they force cooldowns or get a kill. Like, without hesitation, without waiting, it just appears to magically be perfect. Every single game, every single time.

So when for example OddOne sometimes mentioned that he cant gank a lane for the next five minutes because the laner messed up the wave, or just casually looking at a lane, with (for me) no discernible indicators and goes "oh yea we can gank this soon"... I figured it must have something to do with the waves.

Sooooo. I couldn't find any guides for this kinda stuff. How do I learn to base my jungle playstyle around sidelane waves? How do I read that shit properly so that I can maximise my efficiency?
Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 20 2015 14:48 GMT
#2
You're probably having a bit of selective memory, and there's a bit of unspoken communication between the jungler and his toplaner at higher levels, that's the short story. People die in lane all the time without the jungler being able to react, but we tend to not remember those because they're offscreen and not really memorable.

The basics are about creating an opportunity--the jungler make a point to path your clear so you're around when you think there's a gank opportunity, and sidelanes control their lanes and try to create gank opportunity when the jungler is available. The jungler know what "range" he can be in to assist a gank as well. When it comes to counterganking, a good ward or two in their jungle is all you need to know (with a reliable degree of certainty) if the enemy jungler is in the top or bottom half of the map-- they don't have to show in a lane, gank or sit on a ward, a glimpse every couple of minutes is plenty to go on.

The tactics beyond that are pretty straightforward. Your sidelane forces their opponent to take an action they wouldn't have otherwise, jungler shows up to convert that. Push lane, force a trade, get "out of position", etc.

http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/shopkeepers-inn/496557-free-coaching-for-bronze-to-platinum-players

This guy might be able to give you more advice if you're interested.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-20 15:34:00
October 20 2015 15:32 GMT
#3
with no purposeful pushing:
wave that has more minions pushes (d'oh)
wave that's closer to blue tower pushes FOR blue (and vice versa; reinforcements come in sooner)
without purposeful pushing it's probably going to take something like 3 waves for minions to get from blue tower to purple tower?

and then you have champion and matchup specific dynamics that dictate how much each laner affects the above and for that you need quite a bit of experience.
Focusing on monitoring minion waves is a pretty good thing to focus once you get hang of basic jungling. You'll want to play a lot of games where you spend some time observing especially top lane when farming, you'll get the feel for how minions push by themselves really quickly, but judging how champions affect pushing is going to be a lot more difficult and will involve a lot of active thinking (yknow, maybe ryze doesn't usually push vs renekton, but since he got that random fb... etc.). If you do that then all you're missing's just practice, not many shortcuts around that unfortunately.

If you learn to read how the lane will push then all you need to do is to be able to determine whether a gank is good or not (not that hard to tell usually) and then estimate how much you can farm before optimal gank time. Reading the lane's the hard part of this operation.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
October 20 2015 16:34 GMT
#4
On October 21 2015 00:32 Scip wrote:
with no purposeful pushing:
wave that has more minions pushes (d'oh)
wave that's closer to blue tower pushes FOR blue (and vice versa; reinforcements come in sooner)
without purposeful pushing it's probably going to take something like 3 waves for minions to get from blue tower to purple tower?

and then you have champion and matchup specific dynamics that dictate how much each laner affects the above and for that you need quite a bit of experience.
Focusing on monitoring minion waves is a pretty good thing to focus once you get hang of basic jungling. You'll want to play a lot of games where you spend some time observing especially top lane when farming, you'll get the feel for how minions push by themselves really quickly, but judging how champions affect pushing is going to be a lot more difficult and will involve a lot of active thinking (yknow, maybe ryze doesn't usually push vs renekton, but since he got that random fb... etc.). If you do that then all you're missing's just practice, not many shortcuts around that unfortunately.

If you learn to read how the lane will push then all you need to do is to be able to determine whether a gank is good or not (not that hard to tell usually) and then estimate how much you can farm before optimal gank time. Reading the lane's the hard part of this operation.


Thank you so much man... I know that thats the next "big" thing I need to learn to improve.
Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 347
Harstem 280
Hui .269
ProTech105
MindelVK 48
Vindicta 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 10930
Sea 3717
Hyuk 3689
Snow 540
Light 400
Stork 264
Soulkey 218
Last 160
Zeus 137
PianO 123
[ Show more ]
Sea.KH 57
TY 56
ToSsGirL 55
Rush 49
sorry 41
hero 34
Nal_rA 24
Noble 18
Yoon 16
scan(afreeca) 16
Terrorterran 13
IntoTheRainbow 10
HiyA 8
zelot 7
ivOry 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5675
qojqva3089
syndereN394
XcaliburYe383
Fuzer 263
League of Legends
Dendi311
Counter-Strike
byalli263
olofmeister239
Foxcn200
fl0m0
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor120
Other Games
singsing2921
B2W.Neo1476
C9.Mang0697
crisheroes440
FrodaN415
DeMusliM315
Beastyqt313
Lowko285
Mew2King151
Mlord148
ArmadaUGS128
XaKoH 101
elazer93
KnowMe38
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV567
Other Games
BasetradeTV19
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 19
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3411
League of Legends
• Nemesis5961
• Jankos2461
• TFBlade948
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 24m
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
9h 24m
OSC
9h 24m
WardiTV Invitational
20h 24m
OSC
22h 24m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
SOOP
1d 18h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 20h
Cheesadelphia
2 days
[ Show More ]
CSO Cup
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.