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On August 27 2015 07:44 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 06:00 Alaric wrote:
If you want to counterjungle, it's often more about smart positioning and invading, and ability to 1v1 / shove out of his own jungle the enemy jungler.
If you move smartly you won't need the shorter smite to steal a camp (and you're rarely going to steal them all anyway), and if you're going to go fight the other guy and force him to recall before his laners collapse the red smite is more powerful. Here's a terrible idea: What if using the white smite on a camp increased its respawn time by some flat amount of time? It's not a mechanic riot would ever implement, but it might make counter jungling feel more like it used to.
I still think it's incredibly dumb to differentiate jungle sides as left/right. I don't like things like this that interact differently depending on which side of the river you're on.
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either you quoted the wrong person or you think I was saying something completely different than what I actually meant.
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Oh, I misinterpret what you meant too, but I thought it was a good idea.
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In general purple smite is a trap.
It ONLY helps you clear faster if your champion autos the small creeps after killing the big ones. If your AOE skills kill the small creeps while you're autoing the big ones it does not help you clear.
Even on champions who do auto small creeps, much of the time smiting Gromp will speed up your clear more than smiting another camp anyway, and Gromp doesn't have small creeps to AOE, so the increase in speed isn't as much as you might think it is.
Furthermore, if you're autoing small creeps, you're probably clearing really fucking slowly, which probably means you are not playing a competitive jungler. Everybody "can" jungle, but there's a clear speed bar that separates reasonable junglers from cheese picks, even in solo queue. The slower you're clearing the more there needs to be something in your champion kit that makes up for it, like when Sejuani was an unstoppable monster after early game, making up for her falling behind a little in her first 2-3 clears.
So basically what you're getting out of purple smite is the regen. And if you're getting it for regen, why not just buy a couple potions and get a more useful smite? 200g in potions over the course of the game is VERY worth if it gives you the combat smites from Stalkers or Skirmishers. You might feel like you don't "need" the Stalkers smite slow, but once you actually start playing with it you realize that it's super useful on everybody, it's just more necessary on some than others.
Basically, getting purple smite is kind of dumb, and if you feel like you NEED it, you should maybe think about playing a different champion in the first place.
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I don't think it's a trap. Having higher hp/mana when ganking is usually very good.
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That's why I buy potions ggwp
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The other reason why it's a trap is because pro players build it a lot, so you might look at what people do on probuilds and just do that.
But I think we've seen over the years that professional players make a lot of really questionable build decisions, and this is one of them. Junglers are usually the worst offenders for some reason too.
Over time pro junglers are very slowly starting to move to Stalkers/Skirmishers instead of Trailblazer, but it's taking a long time for them to pick something up that's really goddamn obvious. In the LPL finals they were only building it on Gragas, who got Bami's Cinder before even picking it up. In the EU LCS finals they only built it on Gragas and Nidalee. In NA they were still building it on everybody, although Gragas and Nidalee were 2/3rds of the jungle picks so maybe NA isn't too terrible.
Do Gragas and Nidalee auto small creeps?
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Something something Aegis/Locket.
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On August 27 2015 09:11 AlterKot wrote:
That's why I buy potions ggwp
you could spend a lot of money on those
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How much do you think the chilling smite is worth over the course of a game?
I think it's probably easily worth 2-300 gold.
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On August 27 2015 09:44 Slayer91 wrote:you could spend a lot of money on those
Is that money worth more than having a chilling/challenging smite? lets run the numbers ohwait
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Yes, it must be a trap, that's why people win more games on Vi, Jarvan, and Shyvanna win more solo queue games when they build Trailblazer over Stalkers.
http://champion.gg/champion/Shyvana
http://champion.gg/champion/Vi
http://champion.gg/champion/JarvanIV
Simply put, Stalkers is better on gank heavy junglers who want to snowball the game early. While Trailblazer is better on junglers who want to farm more. Especially when they need to farm until level 6. It's simply a safer item to buy than the Stalker's blade. It keeps you on the map for longer periods of time with sustain, adds emergency wave clear to your team, and can prevent minion damage during fights.
The only smite that's a 'trap' is the Poacher's blade.
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1400 game sample size vs 170, a 1% increase, a bunch of different build changes between those, only one point of comparison.
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Did you know Poacher's has a 100% winrate in LCS games I've watched where it gets built?
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What is that game?Hai lost with it vs tdk
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There is no way someone actually bought poachers in LCS....
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On August 27 2015 10:07 nafta wrote:
What is that game?Hai lost with it vs tdk
Ah shit, you're right. I forgot they threw that shit massively.
nvm guys, false alarm, poacher's sucks
On August 27 2015 10:07 cLutZ wrote:
There is no way someone actually bought poachers in LCS....
Yeah, Hai built it vs TDK. They actually got pretty significantly ahead iirc.
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Yeah sorry Sonnington but you're pretty wrong here.
Would be interested in seeing how you think trailblazer improves shyvanas clear.
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Vi is a mana whore when clearing and she'll at least Q when she ganks, which is her most costly ability. She definitely likes having Trailblazer, getting more mana regen, and saving at least an E per camp since she doesn't need to AoE down the small minions as much.
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I don't jungle much, but when I do I pick up Trailblazer on basically everything but Gragas (haven't played new Skarner, but I bet its wasted on him) because it makes you able to be much noobier and if you play the Amumu/Sej/etc types your real goal is basically to not die before 6 and exert the minimum necessary lane pressure for your team not to autolose and tilt.
I'm sure people who are good at jungling might prefer other options for hardcarrying out of the role, but trailblazer is the best option for surviving.
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Vi and Jarvan are two champions whom I wouldn't judge a Trailblazer pick so harshly, although come now Alaric, an E on every camp? You don't smite every camp.
But Vi and Jarvan are also sort of on the verge of not being competitive right now I feel. They're certainly not competitive competitive. They're probably solo queue competitive, but you have to wonder why you're not playing Reksai.
To be fair though Reksai is hard as fuck to play, I hate playing him. I like playing Vi.
Also to be fair Stalkers on Jarvan was one of the big reasons Stalkers got nerfed in the first place, if you recall. It's really good on Jarvan.
I'd bet Skirmishers is pretty good on Vi.
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EPT
