EPT[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. S4 - Page 4
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Testing will start at 00:00 GMT (+00:00) as normal. The following will be tested:
2-1-2 / 1-2-2: + Show Spoiler + The nerfs to Relic Shield curbed this significantly, but it may still be worth investigating. There are three strategies for the setup: Push hard, feed a hard carry, and/or abuse the enemy solo. We'll be prioritizing the push-centric strategy initially, with and without the suggested double ADC setup. My primary concern at the moment is Dragon. With 2-1-2 the opposing team may opt to go for an early dragon. There are two ways to handle this. The first is to simply take the top tower in response. The second is to have the second duo take the mid lane instead of the top lane. Either should work for the purposes of testing. Unorthodox Supports: + Show Spoiler + We've already seen a number of unorthodox supports become standard post-patch. For this reason LeBlanc, Zyra, Lux, and Fiddlesticks are not to be included in testing. The primary champions we will be testing are Urgot, Kayle, Galio, and Cassiopeia. These are not the only champions available for testing. A number of other good suggestions have been made. Let the testing begin. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
After this week I'll be good to go though. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
As for my own theory, what I would want to try some time comes from the fact I used to play RoC DotA 3.6 to 3.9c and I was scrubby in that and LoL too: Theory: Dedicated/Split Defender Rationale: Much like the idea of split pushing, this person would be a first line of defense. This person would not try to actively engage on defense, rather they should be more of zone/prevent defense mindset. This includes warding, recon, making sure lanes stay pushed past river for most if not all lanes while not really traveling past the river except in certain cases. In RoC DotA some of the characters I played were Veno/Void on the Scorge and Toto/PotM for Sentinel. It would be my job to use the dogs for recon/warding and also help cover the sneak lanes between mid and the sides. I wasn't really to cross the river unless a fight needed extra support. I became fairly helpful when employing this and I was begining to wonder if this can work in LoL in some compacity. The quickest change persay I can think of is that there is no sneak lanes and that the jungle is more open. In RoC DotA, the jungle was basically a dedicated area on the topleft/botright. The area around the sneak lanes had creeps too along with a creep infront of the midlane shops for both sides. I am not sure if having a dedicated defender is wise given that there is more angles of attack in LoL. Then again because there is more angles of attack, having some one to shut down some of them, or at least have the enemy second guess ideas might be the type of timing play that could change the tide of some battles. Kicker: I think when LoL had the roamer would be the closest style that would sort of match this style of play. Being that season 4 allows so much gold generation for people like supports, we could see this as the perfect time to at least attempt this idea. Possible Drawback: Your telling some one to split off from the main group so you fall into the possible same traps as split pushing. The defender is playing a more passive role so they might not get the same gold as they would if part of the group (mainly missing out on kills/assists/tower gold). It may just be a waste of time period. Addendum: I have two ideas of champs that could work in this 1) Heimer - with his turrets and rockets he's good at wave clear so he can be on his own for a bit, not having an escape wouldn't be too much of a factor as it would if he was more on offense, offense would miss his pushing power so that would be a quick drawback 2) Ashe - With the changes to warding in season 4, I believe ashe is the single most important char when it comes to recon, hawkshot covers a huge area(from base wall to baron), with Clairvoyance and wards, Ashe can keep any area she wants under constant surveillance while freeing up gold for someone else to not worry about warding as much Thoughts? | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On December 11 2013 06:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: hawkshot has a really long cooldown Indeed, even with CDR you can only get hawkshot down to 45-48 seconds. You have to figure that you can get two or three off in the time a ward is up (180 seconds). Combine that with Clairvoyance and your only really as effective as one person's one ward, granted you have a bit more option as to what areas you cover. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'll be there, hooray. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Rush comps: Duo mid and duo bot might be a better idea. I think we could try it again but we should really think out the composition for it. The composition is really important because basically this is a cheese rush comp and we should treat it like that, IMO. Unconventional supports: Kayle seemed fine. I really liked Pantheon. Whether or not it's better than Leona I think is worth discussing though. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On December 12 2013 03:57 GrandInquisitor wrote: I don't know why Kayle is listed as an unconventional support. I don't think she was ever really that unconventional: she has Armor/MR shredding, a strong slow, decent heal, strong poke (albeit poke that pushes), and as far as Protect-The-Doublelift strategies go, her ultimate is perfect for that teamcomp. It's more of a matter of other Supports doing her job better. Her laning isn't that great without items. If you're playing her for her ultimate, might as well stick her mid. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 10 2013 08:37 Ketara wrote: I think this Jax build theorycraft is silly. 4-5 RoA is strong on most champions because it's super efficient stats, but not many games get to the 70 minutes you need to stack all of your RoA's. And how would you ever get there as Jax? You'd get beaten up in lane while you buy all that mana and AP. Is very silly, too silly for TROLLS imo. Yeah... Jax is already a monster past 8k gold anyway, why delay for 10 more minutes while your second+ ROA stack? | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
Let's say I'm playing an AD that doesn't generally build IE, like, say, Lucian/Varus/Sivir, where you're banking on the fact that you scale so well on raw AD. I don't know enough about the math behind the game to figure out how the damage would compare. Let's say you have a choice of two full builds: build A: Zerkers, BT, BT, BT, LW, defensive item build B: Zerkers, BT, Shiv, LW, IE, defensive item For Varus and Sivir specifically, how is your damage output gonna compare between the two? Alternatively, how good is stacking Aspd and having near 100% crit? Build A: Zerkers, IE, PD, Shiv, LW, defensive item Build B: Zerkers, IE, PD, BT, LW, defensive item | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
The build comparison looks more like: BT > LW > IE vs your build of BT > BT > LW 4th item notwithstanding (the later an item is in the build, the less relevant it is. We're already spending over 10k gold here!) At that point, you have soooo much AD that it's hard to say no to the crit of IE, which scales stupidly well with the huge AD anyway. You're NOT competing with the Shiv/PD builds directly. For the PD+Shiv build, you have to really like AS, and at that point you're competing with the other high-AS builds that Vayne & Co like of BORK-PD. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
The more AD you have the more DPS you're getting per point of attack speed and crit, the more crit you have the more DPS you're getting per point of attack speed and AD, and the more attack speed you have the more DPS you're getting per point of AD and crit. So it's generally best to be getting all three stats. Furthermore, it's not something that actually requires games to test. You can just sit down with a calculator and figure out what the best mathematical build is for damage. I don't think people do that for their ADCs enough (or for any character), and I think that there are a lot of builds for multiple champions that are slightly superior mathematically to what people currently buy, just nobody takes the time to actually figure it out. But at the end of the day, it's not really something worth testing here since you can just go into a champion thread and do build math and discuss it. We want to test things that actually require games to be played to figure them out. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 12 2013 03:57 GrandInquisitor wrote: I don't know why Kayle is listed as an unconventional support. I don't think she was ever really that unconventional: she has Armor/MR shredding, a strong slow, decent heal, strong poke (albeit poke that pushes), and as far as Protect-The-Doublelift strategies go, her ultimate is perfect for that teamcomp. She wasn't normal in S3 because she's pretty meh if she's just an ult. The thing is, with new support income and such she's not just an ult anymore. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On December 12 2013 16:24 krndandaman wrote: How about bruiser gragas? With the E changes building him bruiser seems to be decent. Good tankiness+ad steroid, lots of sustain, great CC, and his E actually scales better with AD. His other skills aren't that useless in the toplane with Q reducing atkspeed up to 40% at max level and his ult providing great CC with decent base damage. Mixed damage ftw? Also every E hit reduces CD by half. This actually seems viable somewhat. I'd love to hear thoughts on this as well. Especially considering how Trinity seems in theory so strong on him, all parts (even parts of sheen/zeal/phage) are very good for him as a bruiser build. Spirit Visage seems tailor made for a bruiser Gragas build, all the stats are bonkers on him as an off/tank. Full on out hybrids red/quints and standard armor+mr yellows and blues would probably be the optimal rune page. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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