[Champion] Zed - Page 4
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TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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LazyFailKid
Canada750 Posts
On April 15 2013 00:05 TSBspartacus wrote: Btw jungle Zed starting items 2 rejuv beads hp pots totes works. Not even that rough a clear though you get lower than normal towards the end, but you make it all up in the time it takes you to get to someones lane. Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though? | ||
Lightswarm
Canada965 Posts
On April 15 2013 07:49 LazyFailKid wrote: Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though? zed just bosses through jungle | ||
Sakray
France2198 Posts
Seems that bruta isn't that good on him (I guess except on targets that buy early chainmail, except Renekton, where HP is better imo), so I think I'll try picking hydra or another BT on him, to see what's better. But with his ult, can you use your W and throw 3 shurikens (or 3 E), on your victim, which means even more damage ? If yes, if he takes all E from you and your shadows (W+ult), it's still 40% slow or even more ? And last one, if when you use your E on someone, both you and your shadow, is it 1 or 2s gained on W's cooldown (3 with ult) ? I also wanted to know some tips to play him mid, I bought him to play him there (I prefer AD mid like Pantheon/Kha'Zix/Zed than AP, the only exception is Ryze) but found no informations. I guess making an early hexdrinker might help (to sell it later and pick something else, like when you have merc+GA ?), but not sure, so... | ||
Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Three shadow shurikens will all do damage, with the first one doing full damage and the other two doing half and restoring energy. The main shadow slash always does damage and the other two always do no damage and slow. Due to the mechanics of slows, this offers no benefit over just hitting with one shadow-shadow slash. Only the main shadow slash reduces W cooldown - the shadow-shadow slash will have no effect on CD. If you're in the middle of a full creep wave, though, that's 6 seconds off the cooldown right there, so it's not like you need another 6. Playing him mid is just a matter of harassing with Q, being aggressive enough to get into the creepwave without taking too much damage, and using the threat of WEQ to zone him. An early Hexdrinker is what you should buy in any heavy burst lane; I also advocate taking Barrier over Ignite. | ||
TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
On April 15 2013 07:49 LazyFailKid wrote: Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though? 1st clear time yes, but no difference after that. The thing is, Zed can E (2x early) then 1 auto to clear most camps small minions. This is because of his passive and if you take AD Quints you will easily clear at the same speed as with machete, and get to your Tiamat 360 gold faster (that's a free pair of boots instead of machete, in exchange for perhaps 5 seconds faster clear). I really like Hydra as a sustain item, makes a lot more sense than spirit of the elder lizard since you aren't wasting money on mana regen, or the inefficient DoT from it (they nerfed it a bit too much). With the changes to Tiamat combine price it will be a very nice pickup and allow for a nice early power spike and super fast clears. Jungling Zed whenever Kha'zix isn't available or I have a mana dependent mid. Also which buff do people start? Is it situational or what? The cdr is nice from blue, the energy regen is negligible to start with, but red buff doesn't affect much apart from ganks so it might be best to pick that up second. I've been starting blue usually which gives me a nice opportunity post lvl-3 to pressure around the map until my red runs out. W-E-W-AA-Q is a great slow and if your laner has a slow or stun too you at least force a flash and often get a kill. On April 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote: I started playing Zed top this week-end, he's really fun but his positionning is quite hard to use properly. I also never know how to start his items haha, I've been trying boots+3pots/doran/doran/giant's belt, boots+3pots/doran/doran/bt, boots+3pots/bruta/black cleaver or bt,...quite hard to know what opening to use (I still like the one with the belt, after it you rush BT and once you grab it you start to be really strong). Seems that bruta isn't that good on him (I guess except on targets that buy early chainmail, except Renekton, where HP is better imo), so I think I'll try picking hydra or another BT on him, to see what's better. But with his ult, can you use your W and throw 3 shurikens (or 3 E), on your victim, which means even more damage ? If yes, if he takes all E from you and your shadows (W+ult), it's still 40% slow or even more ? And last one, if when you use your E on someone, both you and your shadow, is it 1 or 2s gained on W's cooldown (3 with ult) ? I also wanted to know some tips to play him mid, I bought him to play him there (I prefer AD mid like Pantheon/Kha'Zix/Zed than AP, the only exception is Ryze) but found no informations. I guess making an early hexdrinker might help (to sell it later and pick something else, like when you have merc+GA ?), but not sure, so... One of the best lane builds is Brutalizer, boots then either giants belt, vamp scepter or BF sword. It depends on what you need. If you are ahead pick up the BF sword or the vamp if you don't have enough money, then delay the giants belt. If you are really ahead go for Brutalizer, boots, BT. This will make you super scary but you have to be ahead to make it work. If you are behind or want to play safe then brutalizer boots giants belt is the way to go, maybe picking up 1 dorans (don't get 2, its too inefficient when you need to hit your BT or GB asap). If you need HP grab a ruby crystal for your BC or a warmogs later on, I often buy one somewhere between my BT if I back with not enough money. If you want to go hydra start with rejuv beads and rush it, then boots and giants belt (maybe get the giants belt between tiamat and hydra if you are stuggling). Bear in mind that you will have good sustain but lack a huge amount of damage until you get your pickaxe so try to get that first to offset it. The early brutalizer is great on Zed, and is hard to pass up in any build. Regarding mid, yes hexdrinker is good. But sometimes you will be ok with just merc treads if they don't build mpen, and that lets you put that money towards a bigger threat. As Zed you need the raw AD to be able to threaten 100-0 any time your ult is up and they pick a fight. If you can't do that they will be able to kill you after you run out of energy. | ||
Sakray
France2198 Posts
I guess it's similar to hexdrinker but with a very good passive, more mres and more ad, what do you think ? | ||
ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
I'd only get QSS if you're looking at some really retarded suppression-based CC chains. | ||
Sedzz
Australia391 Posts
My current build looks like; Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk. Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk? | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK? My current build looks like; Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk. Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk? Hydra is basically the best of both worlds. You get a boss scaling activate which is basically the same as your E (with a 10s cd instead of long cd like BORK) while having close to the same AD as BT. And you steal so much health off of 1 minion wave or jungle camp, something you actually don't do that well normally unless you don't use E (which lets you do the ADcarry thing of "ahh i got low but got out of the fight, brb 2 sec healing to full off wraiths") It's true you lose a little bit of sticking power from BORK active, but between R, W, and a 40-60% slow, you have so much sticking power, it usually won't be a huge problem. Maybe if you're trying to glue yourself to an Ezreal or Caitlyn, I guess. | ||
Sedzz
Australia391 Posts
On April 16 2013 01:19 sylverfyre wrote: Hydra is basically the best of both worlds. You get a boss scaling activate which is basically the same as your E (with a 10s cd instead of long cd like BORK) while having close to the same AD as BT. And you steal so much health off of 1 minion wave or jungle camp, something you actually don't do that well normally unless you don't use E (which lets you do the ADcarry thing of "ahh i got low but got out of the fight, brb 2 sec healing to full off wraiths") But the build-up of hydra is terrible when still trying to edge out your opponent in lane, but I guess the farming aspect works well. Will try it out. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 16 2013 01:25 Sedzz wrote: But the build-up of hydra is terrible when still trying to edge out your opponent in lane, but I guess the farming aspect works well. Will try it out. I do kinda agree (but saving for a BF sword can be obnoxious too.) However, Zed honestly doesn't mind just having a shovefest in lane - you're a better roamer than you are a Lane-duelist. Also, we're gonna be seeing a buff to the buildup of Hydra next patch, shifting 400 gold from the combine of Tiamat over to the combine of Hydra, making the path a lot smoother. (And you CAN start rejuv bead, which will be nice when they nerf red elixir starts into the ground.) | ||
TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK? My current build looks like; Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk. Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk? BotRK is OP in duels. Get it if you're trading kills a lot, the AD boost is better if you are farming and trading harass. | ||
sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Considering that most bruisers (like Shen) take a giant dump on you 1v1 if you're not significantly ahead of them, it's unlikely BORK is going to be enough help, even though it's a good item on paper for those situations. | ||
greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
There's a knack to managing your energy - with enough practice, you'll stop running out of energy at bad times. Mostly just resist the temptation to think, "Oh, free spells! Let me spam them everywhere!", especially with your Q. Here's my Zed lane skill usage guideline (Q max build): Q: Use whenever I'm pretty sure I'll hit them or at least get some cs. W: Use defensively as necessary; use aggressively if I'm ~full energy and relatively safe from ganks E: If W is on cd spam this on creeps; otherwise only use this as part of a WEQ or ult combo R: If it's off cooldown. (Sometimes you gotta harass them a little first though). Also, Barrier absolutely destroys Zed ult and makes him a lot less scary 1v1. As soon as he slides toward you, pop it and it'll absorb most of the damage you'd take from his combo, which kills the multiplicative damage part as well. | ||
Sakray
France2198 Posts
I mean, I've watched LCS between FnatiC and GG and each time they had a Zed, he never bought a BT. I'm actually using BotRK>Black Cleaver>Frozen Mallet>Last Whisper>Guardian Angel (with Tabi Ninja, not sure if Mercury are worth it) in toplane, gonna probably use the same in midline. If they go for armor first I buy bruta first then BotRK, but with this stuff I realised you have enough damage to burst down everyone (except ultratanky champs but after lanephase it's not worth it to use it on them) while being super tanky. I pick FM over Warmog for the +30dmg and slow (which is quite nice), and GA because when you play Zed, you're automatically gonna be the n°1 target in every teamfight (score doesn't even matter), so if they still decide to focus you, you're tanky enough to kill someone before your GA proc, and your team can damage the rest of their team. | ||
greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
also, max q or w after e? maxing q seems better if you just afkfarm to 18 but that seems to defeat the point of zed | ||
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