Patch 3.6 Date: 2013-04-29 Living Shadow: Cooldown reduced to 18/17/16/15/14 seconds from 22/20.5/19/17.5/16. Shadow Slash: Hitting minions and monsters no longer reduces Living Shadow's cooldown. Hitting enemy champions reduces Living Shadow's cooldown by 2 seconds, up from 1. Comments: The Living Shadow change is obviously a nice buff for top lane zed, but jungle Zed takes some hits. A large portion of my Shadow Slash was used after cloning next to them, so I think it shouldn't make much difference. Ganking junglers might take a little bit to get used to the new timings, however.
Patch 3.03 Date: 2013-02-28 21:13 Razor Shuriken Damage increased to 75/115/155/195/235 from 75/110/145/180/215 Shadow Slash Damage reduced to 60/90/120/150/180 from 60/95/130/165/200 Comments The damage will be missed on shadow slash, perhaps Q max in lane might be more relevant. I still believe that E will continue to be Zed's main tool in the jungle.
Hey everyone, and welcome to the totally revamped Zed Guide by GhandiEAGLE! I hope in this guide to both talk about my personal playstyle and hopefully compile many other opinions on Zed, because I don't want this guide to just be all about me. I acknowledge that I have many mistakes, so please point them out and help improve the guide in your own personal way.
Zed is an assassin who can be played most anywhere. He can even jungle fairly efficiently (although that will only be briefly covered in this guide). He's all about being a huge threat at all parts of the game, while being incredibly hard to shut down, even when camped by junglers. Stopping Zed from farming is ridiculously difficult, because he has a very long range with Living Shadow combined with Razor Shuriken. He also has high 2v1 potential, and can splitpush even if he didn't get the farm he needs. One-shotting people is fun, and Zed is an easy champion with a high skillcap, so seriously pick him up.
Pros:
Past 6 you melt squishies at all points in the game
Clears like lightning in the jungle and in midgame laning
Very high juking potential, a lot of creative ways to escape
Easy to lasthit with no matter which ability you max
Energy champion - can harass "for free" (more on that later)
High potential for lots of fun items
Very solid laner with almost no bad matchups
Easy champion with high skillcap: The ideal Setup
Great at carrying soloqueue games, he can do anything
Is able to go Mid, Jungle, and Top, in addition to being great at 2v1
Cons:
Runs out of energy REALLY easily
Is very vulnerable when Living Shadow is on CD
Is melee, always a risk in teamfights
Can be very difficult to master properly, his full potential is hard to reach
Full damage relies on landing multiple skillshots from different startpoints simultaneously
When behind, Zed is one of the weakest champs in the game
Damage 49 (+3.4 / per level) Health 445 (+80 / per level) Mana 200 (+0 / per level) Move Speed 345 Armor 17 (+3.5 / per level) Spell Block 30 (+1.25 / per level) Health Regen 6 (+0.65 / per level) Mana Regen 50 (+0 / per level)
Abilities:
Contempt for the Weak
Whenever Zed autoattacks an enemy below 50% health, he deals an additional 6 / 8 / 10% of their maximum health as magic damage. This effect cannot occur on the same target more than once every 10 seconds.
It's a good passive, and damage that opponents rarely account for. Makes leashing and jungling in general very easy, and has good synergy with Death Mark. Also makes lasthitting ridiculously easy.
Active: Zed and his shadows throw their shurikens, each dealing physical damage to the first enemy they pass through and a lesser amount to enemies thereafter. Damage to first target: 75/115/155/195/235 (100% bonus AD) Damage to secondary targets: 60 / 88 / 116 / 144 / 172 (+80% bonus AD)
Living Shadow: Additional shurikens striking the same enemy deal 50% damage and restore energy.
This is a strong ability, although potentially hard to hit due to cast time and slow animation, so it may take a few tries to really get used to it. Very powerful to max in lanes where you expect to win with kills rather than pushing and turrets. Strong harassment, and a good way to farm even when being zoned. Without a lot of AD it doesn't do too much on its own, but with the second Q hitting too, it trucks squishies. You can run out of energy fast, however, if you're not careful. Be sure to land this when you're using Death Mark, because your burst disappears if you miss it.
Passive: Zed's bonus attack damage is increased by a percentage. Additional Bonus AD: 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% Energy Restored: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 Active: Zed's shadow dashes forward, remaining in place for 4 seconds. Reactivating this ability will cause Zed to switch positions with this shadow.
Zed's shadow will mimic his basic abilities. If both strike the same target Zed regains some energy. Energy can only be restored once per mimicked ability.
This is where the magic happens. If this isn't sounding awesome to you, Zed is probably not your champion. There is so much potential in this ability; it separates the men from the boys. Firstly, and most practically, you can use it to enhance your abilities. Using it with Shadow Shuriken gives you long ranged harass and a high-damage poke, using it with Shadow Slash gives you energy regen (surprisingly helpful for Zed), slows, and really high waveclear. Secondly, you can blink over most walls by putting your shadow past it and switching. The jukes this ability allows are crazy, fun, and oftentimes throw your opponent off-guard. If you're lucky, when harassing with it they'll ignore it, and you can sneak in some more damage with a second Shadow Slash. Thirdly, you have incredibly powerful waveclear, and roaming champions suffer against Zed because of this reason. Some weird Koreans maxed this first for the CDR, I wouldn't agree with it, but it's not an awful choice.
Also, the energy refund at level 3 is equal to the cost of the clone, and surpasses it in later levels. Energy is something you should be aware of far more with Zed than with most other champions, it's. In teamfights, it is critical that you land your clone's abilities as well. Your damage output rockets up both in the moment and in the future.
Shadow Slash Range: 290 Cooldown: 3 seconds Cost: 50 Energy
Active: Zed and his shadows create a burst of shadow, dealing physical damage to nearby enemies.
Zed's slash reduces the cooldown of Living Shadow by 2 seconds for each champion struck. Slashes mimicked by the shadows slow enemies for 1.5 seconds. Physical Damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+80% bonus AD) Slow: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40%
Living Shadow: Overlapping Shadow Slashes striking the same enemy deal no additional damage but will incur an increased slow and restore energy.
Overlapping Slow: 30 / 37.5 / 45 / 52.5 / 60%
This is what makes Zed great in the jungle. It doesn't cost much energy, it has full area of effect, low cooldown, and great damage. Ever since the damage was nerfed, I ceased to max it first, and keep it in its much preferred role of maxing it second as a more minor source of damage. It's a pretty basic ability, and it's actually important to note that hitting people with multiple shadow slashes does not do extra damage, but it does refund a key amount of energy, so it's still important to land it if you can.
Death Mark Range: 625 Cooldown: 120 / 100 / 80 seconds Cost: No cost
Active: Zed becomes untargetable and dashes to target enemy champion. Upon arrival, he marks the target for death and spawns a living shadow behind the target. This shadow lasts 4 seconds and mimics Zed's abilities. Reactivating Death Mark will cause Zed to switch positions with this shadow.
After 3 seconds, the mark will detonate, dealing physical damage equal to 100% of Zed's attack damage plus a percentage of all magic and physical damage dealt to the target by Zed and his shadows while the mark was active. Physical Damage: 100% total AD + 20 / 35 / 50% of damage dealt
One of my favorite ultimates in the game. There are few things in this game that make you feel cooler than when you Death Mark, then walk away as your opponent waits for mark to tick down and explode them. It also can make items that would be godawful on Zed fairly legitimate. One tricky thing about this ult is, however, Zed's energy problems. If you don't check beforehand that you have enough energy to use your full combo, you can end up in the middle of an enemy team with your dick in your hands. With an angry carry who is annoyed you just tried to snipe them. Another note, activating your ult again will blink you to the clone your ult made. If you accidentally ult into a bad situation, use your Living Shadow to run one way, then when they chase activate your ult and yell "CYA NERDS" in all-chat.
The moment you level this ability, you become a massive threat in lane, and oftentimes you can just use it right away and get kills. If you farm your
One last thing, if there is an enemy in sight, you can use your ult to dodge abilities, including things like Karthus' Requiem. Past 6 it can be a great way to survive ganks if the enemy jungler ganks from behind.
Runes Simple, flat AD quints and marks, flat MR glyphs, and flat armor seals. This is pretty much what people go in lane. Armor Pen is also a legitimate choice. I wouldn't use attack speed, since Zed's auto attacks are used only sparingly.
Summoners I could try to be smart and talk about the synergy between Zed and gapclosers, but I don't even feel like bothering. Take Flash, dummy.
My go-to second summoner for Zed, he's damage focused, doesn't need more escapes, and it hugely benefits his ability to all-in at level 6.
Take smite if you're jungling, don't be a Pandontheto and take smite as a last-hitting crutch.
Really no reason to get this over flash on Zed, there is little synergy here. I guess if you just HAVE to have ghost, it isn't too bad. It just isn't optimal.
Combined with Zed's incredibly fast waveclear and his escape potential, this can make Zed a splitpushing threat. I wouldn't take it, but I guess if you main Nidalee, Shen, or Trondomore, you might as well stick to your guns.
Cleanse is just straight-up BAD top lane, and in teamfights Zed should be able to circumnavigate most CC. I only put this here because I have run into a few Zeds in soloqueue who try this, and I need to stamp out these evils before they breed.
Skill Maxing Typically in lane it's R>Q>E>W, I sometimes take a second point in Living Shadow if the jungle has a consistent presence in my lane.
Jungle is R>E>W>Q or R>E>Q>W, but E first is a must for dem clearspeeds.
Guides
Jungle Relatively simple. 21/9/0 masteries should bring you through the jungle pretty easily, Zed is not a complex jungler. Start with Blue Golems, and gank whenever you damn well please. You have powerful dueling abilities, so invades are not out of the question considering the cleartime you have.
When ganking, it can be difficult to know when to use your Living Shadow. It has a long CD and it is a big source of your damage, but it's also your only CC. Use it prudently. Blowing it instantly is really just asking for trouble, especially since counterganks turn you into a sitting duck.
Top Lane I play Zed top lane because I'm a cool kid, he's obviously perfectly viable mid too. With flat AD you should be pretty strong in the top lane, Zed rips through high-health champions because of his low cooldowns, so as long as you fight efficiently energy-wise (consistently landing both e's) you shouldn't have trouble with very many people. Your lane is S-A-F-E A-S F-U-C-K.
In terms of getting ganked, you're either ungankable or a free kill. That's why you have to be careful with usage of your Living Shadow, if you get it baited out, or are too aggressive when you don't know the jungler's location, any decent jungler will just straight-up kill you. If you don't max it, you will have a 20 second cooldown, that is a HUGE window of vulnerability, so be careful. Playing Zed is all about prudence and timing.
You always can ult a jungler coming in from behind, but this type of gank is pretty rare. It is nice if they 2v1 dive you, however. Be sure to keep tabs on where the enemy jungler is. This is basic, universal lane knowledge but it tells you whether you can start amplifying your damage or if you're at risk and need to play back a little.
Matchups Should be an ok for Zed, but honestly it's a time bomb. Early on, you can poke him out of lane easily, and by the time he is a pushing threat you can push right back. Zed annihilates waves after a few levels in Shadow Slash, so it may go well if you prioritize leveling that equally with Razor Shuriken. This should go quite well for you. Lategame, Singed is just an unstoppable train, but Zed has so much damage that you can take his health down fast. You don't want to focus him though, obviously, and you can't peel him, so your AD Carry has no benefit there, but still a good match-up for Zed. One problem is you can't abuse your pushing to roam, and Singed just destroys your turret. Also, lategame, Zed is unable to peel for his AD Carries when it comes to Singed going balls deep. Zed's slow is pretty irrelevant to Singed, so be sure you're in the right comp before picking Zed against a Singed. However, if you don't take out Singed fast, he starts to steamroll Zed, and the lane gets ugly, so check your jungler and your enemy's jungler to make sure you'll be in a position to put a lot of pressure on him
This lane is usually a good one for Zed, it can go one of two ways. The first way is Olaf maxing Q, in which case you can outrade him, and abuse your free poke while dodging axes. If he maxes E first, you can't outrade him, but you are slippery enough to harass him down. Either way it goes well. Eventually Olaf gets to a point where you just don't hurt him that much, but unlike Darius, he can't push you, so Zed can keep him cooped up against his turret (especially if Olaf maxes E first).
It's Olaf except he outrades and outpushes you early. Just stay back and survive until you can pick up a good core item and start turning the tide. You can never straight-up trade with him, but if you use guile, you can certainly wear him down. Your clear will eventually get to the point where it's faster than his, although not enough to really turn the tide. So basically sit tight and wait for ganks. In teamfights, it can be worth it to stop Darius from getting to your carries, but as he has no gapcloser, he is unlikely to try. If he really does, you can slow him and massively chunk his health. You're still probably better going balls deep and slamming into the enemy AD Carry, though.
Renekton is a doable match-up. Fighting straight-up with him is suicide, it gets worse and worse as the lane goes on. But you can match his vicious pushing. You will probably be at your turret before 6, so be warned. Try to make it a point to harass him as much as possible before 6, because if you ever hit 6 before he does, and he has less than 50% HP, you will have your only chance to kill him. Ignite + combo + ult will kill anybody from 50% or below, Renekton is unkillable after this so don't miss your chance if you can get it. Watch your XP bar when you begin to near level 6, and do your best to counterpush while poking him so that you will hit 6 first and still have him at relatively low health.
Nasus is free. So, so free. Either push really hard and make him struggle with lasthitting, or zone him for the first few levels. You will hit 6 a little before him. Unless he has a large amount of base health from runes, you can just ult in and kill him. This sounds similar to Renekton because they have the same ult. Except Renekton actually has a chance. 1v2 Matchups are usually pretty ok for Zed. He is incredibly good at farming under turret even at level 1 thanks to his passive, he's hard to dive thanks to Living Shadow, he has really good clear once he hits level 4, and can farm from range. He's definitely really solid here, but be even more wary than before of your Living Shadow usage, because Three-Man Dives are all the rage right now in 1v2 Matchups.
Yorick is yet another good lane for Zed. It's hard for him to hit you with his ghouls, and you are great at shredding them up if he throws them all out at once like a bad Yorick. Be sure not to ult his clone or anything silly and you should do fine. Be aware that slows are going to screw Zed if you're pushed when a gank comes. The lane is yours to lose.
Mid Lane A lot of my previous advice about general laning is true here, except now it's even HARDER to get ganked, and the opponents are squishier. Take advantage of your pushing ability and relative safety to aggressively ward the map. Places I like are the bush above the enemy Red Buff (giving some vision of the wraiths), and the banana bushes. Not only with this make soloqueue games easier for your allies, you can oftentimes spot low-health or half-health junglers walking around, just waiting to be picked off by you. Keep in mind that, although your level 6 power spike is stronger here due to squishier opponents, theirs is too, so their burst can be dangerous if you're too offensively focused.
Items Core Items A brutal (heh) item on Zed. It's pretty good to get, especially when you're a little lost on what to build. Not NECESSARY, but a good bet for doing damage, considering how good CDR is on Zed. You won't be building it and then finishing it right afterwards, it will stay as a Brutalizer until the end of the game approaches, because Cleaver and Youmuu's are both not worth the early-game investment.
Bork is a REALLY strong item on Zed, not because of the slows as much as it amplifies the damage powerfully with his ultimate. Typically good to grab once you have picked up Brutalizer.
This item is inevitably very strong for someone with burst like Zed. He's hard enough to kill, two lives will make it even harder. Zed doesn't need a lot of items to do damage, so you may as well get some utility with this one.
Originally had it in the "helpful" section, but with cleaver generally being terrible now, I would put it down as a primary source for armor penetration past Brutalizer.
Helpful Items Completely forgot to add Hexdrinker, and it's definitely a situational purchase. My problem is that I don't like building it (as in taking time away from building sweet, sweet damage) but it pays off in the end. Don't get it every game, but just be smart about it and you can't go wrong. Also Malamortius sucks :/
Zed has amazing clear midgame, and gets a lot use out of vamp scepter, so it's only natural that this item be potentially strong. The only issue is that it both is expensive and sucks 90% of the time on melee carries right now. It can be an ok purchase if you're really rich and you want to start snowballing, so I won't totally count it out.
For when you buy a giant's belt and you just don't like the color green. Damage, slows, health, it's just generally helpful. I never get it though.
Hydra is probably the most debated item on Zed in all of TL. I like it actually, although I like other items more. Some people hate it, some people absolutely swear by it, so I would suggest trying it out for yourself and seeing how you like it. Typically it's used as a replacement for Bork as that extra active item that adds to burst. How it works is that you buy Tiamat instead of Cutlass, and then its a much cheaper path from there. I still like Bork more, personally.
A great early item for Zed, especially if you have a small budget, in addition to being able to build it into whatever you need. Pretty simple.
Oddly enough, your ultimate makes this item scary as hell on Zed. If you aren't having trouble surviving, but you just can't finish off those pesky carries, build this item, use it after you ult, and I GUARANTEE that poor guy is screwed. There is so much splat that people wince, women and children cry, and gets you home in time for dinner.
In all seriousness it's a fun item that is a great idea if you're ok with sacrificing some survivability. Great in 3v3s.
Typical Build Path
Typical Final Build +
+ + + OR OR
Lategame, just dive the ad carry, kill, and then shred. Zed can't peel very well but he can WRECK if left alone, high HP is no barrier for him. Also, splitpushing is strong since you shatter creep waves and chunk turrets.
So, this was my first guide! It's also the first time I have done anything significant in terms of contribution to TL, so if you have any tips or things I left out, tell me! I acknowledge I don't know everything!
And remember,
About me: I'm a Gold ll Player in League of Legends, I have Zed as my 3rd most played champion, behind Jayce and Vladimir.
Good work, here's my 2 cents on playing top lane Zed.
- Against range champions or being zoned out, I tend to favour putting more points into Q (though I would get E to at least level 2) where'as against melee I would favour E.
- General 'poke combo' for me would be (if enemy is going for a CS): 1) Run up, W behind/towards target 2) E immediately when shadow spawns, then aim for a Q 3) Note that W lasts 4 seconds, E has a 3 second cooldown. E again If the enemy is still within your shadow's E AoE. 4) If the situation is wise and enemy is 50% or below, immediately W to switch places with your shadow and give him an auto attack for the passive bonus.
This combo will drain most of your energy but deals alot of damage with the only risk of a 'wild jungler appears'.
- His passive according to my observations triggers after the auto attack. So if your auto is going to put the target below 50% hp, then it triggers. Unlike a contrary belief that it will only trigger if the target when you auto is 50% or below already.
Zed is quite fun to play but requires alot more concentration and quick reflexes to play when I compare myself playing as Xin Zhao (mindless EWQ). You also sometimes gotta remember which shadow was R and which one was W.... fuck I've killed myself a few times by pressing W instead of R.
On March 01 2013 14:04 Zariel wrote: Good work, here's my 2 cents on playing top lane Zed.
- Against range champions or being zoned out, I tend to favour putting more points into Q (though I would get E to at least level 2) where'as against melee I would favour E.
- General 'poke combo' for me would be (if enemy is going for a CS): 1) Run up, W behind/towards target 2) E immediately when shadow spawns, then aim for a Q 3) Note that W lasts 4 seconds, E has a 3 second cooldown. E again If the enemy is still within your shadow's E AoE. 4) If the situation is wise and enemy is 50% or below, immediately W to switch places with your shadow and give him an auto attack for the passive bonus.
This combo will drain most of your energy but deals alot of damage with the only risk of a 'wild jungler appears'.
- His passive according to my observations triggers after the auto attack. So if your auto is going to put the target below 50% hp, then it triggers. Unlike a contrary belief that it will only trigger if the target when you auto is 50% or below already.
Zed is quite fun to play but requires alot more concentration and quick reflexes to play when I compare myself playing as Xin Zhao (mindless EWQ). You also sometimes gotta remember which shadow was R and which one was W.... fuck I've killed myself a few times by pressing W instead of R.
I agree with all of this, except that I think there is slightly more risk than "I wild jungler appears" because if that champion turns on you, you're a bit of a sitting duck. Not always a bad thing, but using your w is almost always a bit risky.
You may want to add the energy return part of W to the skill's description, since it's equal to W's cost at level 3 and actually exceeds it at levels 4-5 it can be pretty important (esp. in dps situations where it allows almost constant E spam). As for the passive I can tell you that unless you get 100-0 by Zed's combo you do notice that aa that deals almost double damage to you. x)
BotRK works with his ult, as does Ignite. It takes all sources of damage into account (including red buff). Also from what I can tell people max W on him for the bonus AD %increase scaling (from 5% to 25%, that's huge, esp. in lane when you get to farm a BT) rather than CD reduction, but I may be wrong. That was the reason why W was maxed second on streams I watched though.
On March 01 2013 21:47 Alaric wrote: (...) BotRK works with his ult, as does Ignite. It takes all sources of damage into account (including red buff). (...)
This is not true, it only takes in to account Magic and Physical damage. So yes BotRK works, but Ignite, Spirit of the Elder Lizard debuff, and Red Buff do not(same goes for the active of Entropy where available).
Snap, I was sure I read something about that from a Red while Zed was on PBE though. I probably remembered the topic right, but the fact wrong. My bad.
On March 01 2013 21:47 Alaric wrote: You may want to add the energy return part of W to the skill's description, since it's equal to W's cost at level 3 and actually exceeds it at levels 4-5 it can be pretty important (esp. in dps situations where it allows almost constant E spam). As for the passive I can tell you that unless you get 100-0 by Zed's combo you do notice that aa that deals almost double damage to you. x)
BotRK works with his ult, as does Ignite. It takes all sources of damage into account (including red buff). Also from what I can tell people max W on him for the bonus AD %increase scaling (from 5% to 25%, that's huge, esp. in lane when you get to farm a BT) rather than CD reduction, but I may be wrong. That was the reason why W was maxed second on streams I watched though.
I was watching a few Zed streams awhile ago, they all said that they liked W first because it let them have much more safe harass in lane. The %AD was so that the harass wasn't shit, so I supposed it was for both reasons.
But yeah, I forgot to stress energy costs in this guide, I probably should have since it's pretty significant with Zed.
what do you guys think of Lizard spirit stone on jungle zed ?
I used to stay on machete but I kind of like it instead of bruta/BC I have only tested it a couple of times yet so I don't really know if it's better as I was really fed both times
On March 11 2013 14:51 komokun wrote: what do you guys think of Lizard spirit stone on jungle zed ?
I used to stay on machete but I kind of like it instead of bruta/BC I have only tested it a couple of times yet so I don't really know if it's better as I was really fed both times
Haven't screwed around with it too much, but I wonder where you would find the time to build it. I guess it's come good damage, and Zed doesn't particularly need more clear with wriggles, but I usually just sell machete. It might be worth looking into, though.
I have 45~ games played with Zed in ranked and atleast 50+ in normals. I've found that skilling R-E-W-Q is a lot better for laning. You can quickly use W-E combo to whittle them down, and its a lot more consistent than a W-Q combo.
On March 11 2013 14:51 komokun wrote: what do you guys think of Lizard spirit stone on jungle zed ?
I used to stay on machete but I kind of like it instead of bruta/BC I have only tested it a couple of times yet so I don't really know if it's better as I was really fed both times
Haven't screwed around with it too much, but I wonder where you would find the time to build it. I guess it's come good damage, and Zed doesn't particularly need more clear with wriggles, but I usually just sell machete. It might be worth looking into, though.
It's really cheap and I don't really like BC
I usually get boots 1 after first clear and then get vamp scepter into pick axe. I feels really smooth then, I get BT and sit on pick axe until LW if doing really well (and just get rid of machete sometimes), otherwise I finish Lizard first for the power spike midgame.
Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
Hydra isn't bad enough to tell you not to get it, but it's also not good enough (in my opinion, everyone plays Zed a little differently) to buy on a consistent basis. Zed is really weak if he is behind, more so than most champions. So I find Brutalizer to be a good choice on Zed due to consistency. If you are pretty fed, go ahead and buy Hydra, buying Brutalizer on a rich Zed is a crime. But if most Zeds are anything like KissBlade, then Brutalizer is going to be more common.
I can see hydra being pretty good, now that BORK is an AS item and has very low AD, while Hydra is almost as much AD as a bloodthirster, but with a nifty active that adds to your ulti burst.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
Edit:
On March 12 2013 12:58 sylverfyre wrote: I can see hydra being pretty good, now that BORK is an AS item and has very low AD, while Hydra is almost as much AD as a bloodthirster, but with a nifty active that adds to your ulti burst.
Again, I don't see how it interacts with your ultimate. You cleave around the target of your burst, so secondary targets receive more damage, but that doesn't at all increase the damage you do to your primary target
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
On March 12 2013 12:58 sylverfyre wrote: I can see hydra being pretty good, now that BORK is an AS item and has very low AD, while Hydra is almost as much AD as a bloodthirster, but with a nifty active that adds to your ulti burst.
Again, I don't see how it interacts with your ultimate. You cleave around the target of your burst, so secondary targets receive more damage, but that doesn't at all increase the damage you do to your primary target
I think they are mainly referring to the active, which is a nice bit of damage that has good consistency in teamfights (basically a mini Shadow Slash). I don't think active items add the ult burst, because I know that Gunblade and BoRK don't. However, it's always a solid item for people who stack AD, and it basically gives you a waveclear of 1 second (although in later levels Zed gets this anyways).
I really like Zed because he's fun but I feel like if you're not playing him with a good level of precision you fail horribly and feed
I also have no clue how you're supposed to itemize for him unless fed because you either get to kill someone or almost kill them and die, or dive in, do nowhere near enough damage to kill them and die shortly after. I was wondering if anyone knows of a good player/streamer/vods where I can see some Zed play
I haven't read all of the guide, but I skimmed some of it and I saw that you said Zed was good against Singed.
From my experience in Diamond Zed is one of the best opponents to get as Singed. I have never not demolished a Zed in lane as Singed. I just have no idea how Zed is supposed to take on Singed.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
On March 12 2013 12:58 sylverfyre wrote: I can see hydra being pretty good, now that BORK is an AS item and has very low AD, while Hydra is almost as much AD as a bloodthirster, but with a nifty active that adds to your ulti burst.
Again, I don't see how it interacts with your ultimate. You cleave around the target of your burst, so secondary targets receive more damage, but that doesn't at all increase the damage you do to your primary target
I think they are mainly referring to the active, which is a nice bit of damage that has good consistency in teamfights (basically a mini Shadow Slash). I don't think active items add the ult burst, because I know that Gunblade and BoRK don't. However, it's always a solid item for people who stack AD, and it basically gives you a waveclear of 1 second (although in later levels Zed gets this anyways).
Gunblade and BotRK DO work with your ultmate, thats the only reason why BotRK comes anywhere near BT as a good item for Zed. Any physical or magical damage dealt is counted for his ult, so BotRK and Gunblade are a part of that.
And I understand the AoE on hydra - it's just Zed doesn't do a huge amount of auto attacking (a good portion of his time when blowing someone up is spent in his ult animation for example). So, it doesn't seem that great for him, especially given that diving a target means they may not be near others.
On March 12 2013 17:37 Dusty wrote: I really like Zed because he's fun but I feel like if you're not playing him with a good level of precision you fail horribly and feed
I also have no clue how you're supposed to itemize for him unless fed because you either get to kill someone or almost kill them and die, or dive in, do nowhere near enough damage to kill them and die shortly after. I was wondering if anyone knows of a good player/streamer/vods where I can see some Zed play
He doesn't appear to have anything more recent on his youtube page, maybe you could tune into his stream (or post in his thread) and see if he's still playing Zed!
On March 12 2013 20:58 EquilasH wrote: I haven't read all of the guide, but I skimmed some of it and I saw that you said Zed was good against Singed.
From my experience in Diamond Zed is one of the best opponents to get as Singed. I have never not demolished a Zed in lane as Singed. I just have no idea how Zed is supposed to take on Singed.
I've lost and won to Singed, but your pushing power gets good fast enough to never lose a creep to turret. You can't kill Singed after level 6, but that is no different from everybody not named Elise. It's not a hard counter or anything, but Singed is OP and Zed fairs better than most. Also he has two abilities that let him juke Singed flips, and in addition has a slow.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
On March 12 2013 12:58 sylverfyre wrote: I can see hydra being pretty good, now that BORK is an AS item and has very low AD, while Hydra is almost as much AD as a bloodthirster, but with a nifty active that adds to your ulti burst.
Again, I don't see how it interacts with your ultimate. You cleave around the target of your burst, so secondary targets receive more damage, but that doesn't at all increase the damage you do to your primary target
I think they are mainly referring to the active, which is a nice bit of damage that has good consistency in teamfights (basically a mini Shadow Slash). I don't think active items add the ult burst, because I know that Gunblade and BoRK don't. However, it's always a solid item for people who stack AD, and it basically gives you a waveclear of 1 second (although in later levels Zed gets this anyways).
Gunblade and BotRK DO work with your ultmate, thats the only reason why BotRK comes anywhere near BT as a good item for Zed. Any physical or magical damage dealt is counted for his ult, so BotRK and Gunblade are a part of that.
And I understand the AoE on hydra - it's just Zed doesn't do a huge amount of auto attacking (a good portion of his time when blowing someone up is spent in his ult animation for example). So, it doesn't seem that great for him, especially given that diving a target means they may not be near others.
On March 12 2013 17:37 Dusty wrote: I really like Zed because he's fun but I feel like if you're not playing him with a good level of precision you fail horribly and feed
I also have no clue how you're supposed to itemize for him unless fed because you either get to kill someone or almost kill them and die, or dive in, do nowhere near enough damage to kill them and die shortly after. I was wondering if anyone knows of a good player/streamer/vods where I can see some Zed play
He doesn't appear to have anything more recent on his youtube page, maybe you could tune into his stream (or post in his thread) and see if he's still playing Zed!
I've heard that it works and that it doesn't work, so I just decided to personally confirm and yeah it works. With that out of the way, Hydra's active is very strong for burst and works well in fights that last more than 10 seconds, but so is the hydra itself. It's a good option instead of Bork, or Black Cleaver if you're rich. Again, I still don't like getting it, but as always, it's your choice.
On March 12 2013 20:58 EquilasH wrote: I haven't read all of the guide, but I skimmed some of it and I saw that you said Zed was good against Singed.
From my experience in Diamond Zed is one of the best opponents to get as Singed. I have never not demolished a Zed in lane as Singed. I just have no idea how Zed is supposed to take on Singed.
I've lost and won to Singed, but your pushing power gets good fast enough to never lose a creep to turret. You can't kill Singed after level 6, but that is no different from everybody not named Elise. It's not a hard counter or anything, but Singed is OP and Zed fairs better than most. Also he has two abilities that let him juke Singed flips, and in addition has a slow.
I really don't see this, and I don't know whether you mostly faced bad Singed players. Singed is one of my most played in s3 (Diamond 2 if it's relevant) and Zed is among the easiest opponents. Like I literally DEMOLISHED any Zed player I've faced so far - he can't do anything.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
I should mention that I skip pieces of this depending on the game. I usually play Zed mid, which often means Hexdrinker is a solid choice against all the bursty magic damage. I get boots after hexdrinker, unless I'm feeling extraordinarily safe or I'm incredibly fed. If I skip Hexdrinker, I pick up boots after pickaxe or tiamat. I upgrad'e them usually after Hydra. I upgrade them to Mercs, Swifties, or Tabi, depending on what I'm worried about. Mercs are my usual pickup for if the enemy team has lots of CC. Swifties are if I'm only worried about slows and/or I want to split push a lot and/or I want to gank other lanes super hard. Tabi are if I'm worried about heavy physical burst. The only constant is that I get Hydra as my first big item. I buy Bloodthirster if I need to blow someone up hard (i.e. Vayne), and I get Warmogs if I just need to survive. If I got Bloodthirster, I usually get Guardian Angel next. At any point after Hydra, if my team is having trouble with someone who's stacking armor (and you should be able to kill anyone who isn't), get a Last Whisper. I should add that I get Randuins instead of Warmogs if I'm worried about physical damage and not so much magical.
On why Hydra is good: It lets you start with 1 or even 2 rejuv beads + wards and pots, which is actually super annoying for most lane opponents, since you have no mana to worry about. It's a reliable, powerful, low cooldown nuke with approximately the same AoE as Shadow Slash. Your ult DOES count the damage from the Hydra active. Possibly most importantly, it doesn't drain your already strained energy. It gives you a fairly cost-efficient source of AD and piles of sustain for lane and for healing back up after teamfights. Zed is a strong split pusher, and Hydra helps a lot with that. Hydra also lets him farm jungle super hard. Farming the enemy jungle is generally pretty safe, thanks to shadow clone.
On March 12 2013 07:22 Tooplark wrote: Here are my Zed notes: First, don't forget that hitting things with E reduces W's cooldown! It's a really big difference - a full minion wave, and your W can come back up in as little as 6 seconds. So, if you want to be safe with W, get in the middle of the creep wave before you toss it out and hit E.
Second, I recommend Ravenous Hydra as an actually quite legit item. It's a nice increase to your burst, your farming, your sustained (i.e. longer than 10 secs) fights, and your sustain. The biggest thing it its favor is it gives you one more nuke to mash when you ult someone, and the ult does count in the damage.
BotRK is good, BC is kind of meh, Bloodthirster is great, Warmogs is basically mandatory as your second or third big item. Hexdrinker is a natural early pickup against magic damage lanes. Last Whisper is often necessary later. Usually my build ends up looking something like Hexdrinker-Ravenous Hydra-BT-Warmogs-LW-GA.
I really like some of the extra utility that your build provides... But you havent left room for boots! (And its super expensive.) What do you mean about Hydra increasing your burst? Hydra/Hexdrinker seem like potentially interesting items for Zed, although I'm not so sure about Hydra, can you elaborate some more?
I should mention that I skip pieces of this depending on the game. I usually play Zed mid, which often means Hexdrinker is a solid choice against all the bursty magic damage. I get boots after hexdrinker, unless I'm feeling extraordinarily safe or I'm incredibly fed. If I skip Hexdrinker, I pick up boots after pickaxe or tiamat. I upgrad'e them usually after Hydra. I upgrade them to Mercs, Swifties, or Tabi, depending on what I'm worried about. Mercs are my usual pickup for if the enemy team has lots of CC. Swifties are if I'm only worried about slows and/or I want to split push a lot and/or I want to gank other lanes super hard. Tabi are if I'm worried about heavy physical burst. The only constant is that I get Hydra as my first big item. I buy Bloodthirster if I need to blow someone up hard (i.e. Vayne), and I get Warmogs if I just need to survive. If I got Bloodthirster, I usually get Guardian Angel next. At any point after Hydra, if my team is having trouble with someone who's stacking armor (and you should be able to kill anyone who isn't), get a Last Whisper. I should add that I get Randuins instead of Warmogs if I'm worried about physical damage and not so much magical.
On why Hydra is good: It lets you start with 1 or even 2 rejuv beads + wards and pots, which is actually super annoying for most lane opponents, since you have no mana to worry about. It's a reliable, powerful, low cooldown nuke with approximately the same AoE as Shadow Slash. Your ult DOES count the damage from the Hydra active. Possibly most importantly, it doesn't drain your already strained energy. It gives you a fairly cost-efficient source of AD and piles of sustain for lane and for healing back up after teamfights. Zed is a strong split pusher, and Hydra helps a lot with that. Hydra also lets him farm jungle super hard. Farming the enemy jungle is generally pretty safe, thanks to shadow clone.
You know, I'd never actually read the active passive properly. I always thought it increased the amount you cleave on attack, kind of like stacking multiple tiamats. But its actually just an extra (aoe) auto. Interesting. All of your other reasons for Hydra are sound and basically what I was expecting, I'll have to experiment with Hydra some more.
Edit:
On March 13 2013 00:35 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Also I already have the ShakeDrizzle vid in my OP
Well I looked at the Shake plays vid and just tried to look at how he did things and one thing I had not been good at was using my R shadow. Tried it out today and found I could secure a lot more kills by swapping to it and auto/e/auto them. Never realized just how important it was.
On March 13 2013 19:08 Dusty wrote: Well I looked at the Shake plays vid and just tried to look at how he did things and one thing I had not been good at was using my R shadow. Tried it out today and found I could secure a lot more kills by swapping to it and auto/e/auto them. Never realized just how important it was.
It's also to your advantage that most people you play against don't actually know Zed can do that. If he ever got really popular, I don't think that trick would work as well, so use it while you can xD
On March 13 2013 19:08 Dusty wrote: Well I looked at the Shake plays vid and just tried to look at how he did things and one thing I had not been good at was using my R shadow. Tried it out today and found I could secure a lot more kills by swapping to it and auto/e/auto them. Never realized just how important it was.
It's also to your advantage that most people you play against don't actually know Zed can do that. If he ever got really popular, I don't think that trick would work as well, so use it while you can xD
This is so true, many times I'm like walking in the opposite direction of my shadow "oh boy, this is so telegraphed", then I just swap and spam the seizure "h4h4h4h4"
But even when they know about zed, swapping back and forth between W and R shadows is always confusing !
I'm so happy he's actually being picked up in pro play.
*puts on hipster glasses* I was playing him when he first came out and everyone said he was garb, but he's so much fun I couldn't resist haha. I'm finding myself favoring Botrk>Bt now, with a quick LW if they're stacking armors.
I remember Jatt saying this past weekend that he was so popular because people haven't figured out how to counter him yet... Who do you think does? Swain always gives me hell in lane, same with Kayle.
Swain has a field day with melee assassins, and Kayle can generally handle anyone who relies on an ult combo (especially with no CC and 3 seconds to shield the damage). Ryze gets bullied early but if he gets at all ahead you're done. Leblanc out-assassins you thanks to her CC, though this one could probably go either way. Also, many tanky top laners can just go mid and manhandle Zed.
On April 07 2013 04:21 WilDMousE wrote: How should I react as zed vs teemo on toplane? Sadly I'm no used to playing vs ranged champions in toplane thus making me feel somewhat uncomfy.
On April 07 2013 04:21 WilDMousE wrote: How should I react as zed vs teemo on toplane? Sadly I'm no used to playing vs ranged champions in toplane thus making me feel somewhat uncomfy.
Lots of hp pots. Get level 6. All-in. Win lane.
How can i manage to get the early CSing against him? max Q and hope for the best o Should i be getting redpot-health pots-ward build or just healthpots-ward?
It has been so long I last played LoL and i never played top :C
Yeah you can crush him at 6, just survive till then with W-E farming. I only max Q if I'm vs a lane I think I can comfortably harass with it on. Take pots and try to bait his Q before you ult him while its off cooldown. His ult give him no kill potential and you should comfortably crush him if he's anywhere near your tower.
Zed's pretty stupid. Usually once I hit ~350 AD (i.e. after two items) I just start building random utility crap on him. (Unless I need Guardian Angel or Last Whisper). Things I have built: Zeke's, Ohmwrecker, Sightstone, Randuins, WotA, Bulwark
Regards to Zed, bloodthirsther and hydra: http://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueofLegendsMeta/comments/1bv72o/hydra_vs_bt_on_ad_casters/ Some good points, I think I will start building Hydra first on jungle Zed and go for a bloodthirster after Warmogs or randuins. Perhaps pick up a BotRK if their AD/AP has a good escape that I need to keep on, or their tanks are stacking health.
Another cool thing about hydra, you clear creep camps and minion waves even MORE retardedly fast. Like, you walk past them, press buttons, and the camp is cleared without you having even stopped walking.
But man, hydra active on his burst combo is just as good as BORK active, but the stats on Hydra are way nicer for an AD caster.
I think start 2 rejuv beads pots, don't back till 6 and pick up most if not all your tiamat and come back to lane with a huge power spike and get a kill guaranteed. Maybe pick up fort pot too with tiamat to ensure the kill. Also hydra first item for jungle zed, saves me having to buy any regen beads that only go into a spirit stone. Going to test starting beads, fort pot and red pot. Not sure if you can time it properly to get to wolves in time or you can get away with starting only beads and fort pot but imagine the power of a fort pot double buff zed gank. Maybe double beads red pots? Zed has enough damage with passive and E that I think you could legitimately get away with not buying the key to the jungle and hit Hydra really early. His ganks aren't great till 6 anyway and you just need to farm so I think this will work.
2 rejuv beads 3 pots is pretty ballsy to try and stay in lane until 6 with no ward. I'd rather 1 rejuv, pots and wards. Much less likely to have an accident involving their jungler/mid showing up and leaving you with 200 health and 1 pot left at level 3. Zed is kinda easily bullied pre-6 by standard top lane bruisers like Renekton and can be range-harassed by many mid laners.
E is better for farming jungle and Q misses sometimes and E slow is more useful for trades, escapes, gank assists and whatever and you can clear whole waves with a shadowed double E whereas you cannot hope to do that with Qs.
Zed can farm mid and jungle like a Mordekaiser with max E.
On April 11 2013 04:41 sylverfyre wrote: 2 rejuv beads 3 pots is pretty ballsy to try and stay in lane until 6 with no ward. I'd rather 1 rejuv, pots and wards. Much less likely to have an accident involving their jungler/mid showing up and leaving you with 200 health and 1 pot left at level 3. Zed is kinda easily bullied pre-6 by standard top lane bruisers like Renekton and can be range-harassed by many mid laners.
2 rejuv can still be started, you can just start with 1 pot if you want the ward. It's so much stronger after the second back because you're not wasting slots on potions and every 2 and half minutes you spend in lane you make up for a pot(So 1 minute and 15 seconds with double rejuv). I really don't think 1 rejuv + pots + ward vs 2 rejuv + pot + ward is worth it simply because you won't really need the 1 potion until the opponent's harrass starts dealing significant dmg(like lvl 5?) unlike with just 1 bead and then... Well, you have to make up for the 180g somehow. I believe that if you want to start beads, starting with 2 and 3 pots or 1 pot 1 ward is the way to go.
I think the only general idea behind leveling zed is based on how much he is gonna be harassed in lane before lvl 6. if its gonna be alot then you get early levels in q. otherwise, if you can get to 6 relatively safely, lvl e first
On April 11 2013 17:44 ArchAngelSC wrote: Why do people max E over Q in lane with zed? Q does more damage in every way as far as I can tell. And you don't have to W to poke with it.
E has a much shorter cooldown, meaning in any trade that isn't over in under 3 seconds you'll do more damage with E. In order for Q to match E you need to use your W and hit with both Shurikens, and even then you'll do less damage for more energy (until you hit rank 4 Q). E is basically more damage, better wave clear, and doesn't require using your primary escape in order to do its maximum damage.
But why? You can lasthit with Q just fine even if it's lvl 1... whereas if you farm entire creepwaves in the range of Q, you're also in range for shadow E
On April 11 2013 17:44 ArchAngelSC wrote: Why do people max E over Q in lane with zed? Q does more damage in every way as far as I can tell. And you don't have to W to poke with it.
E has a much shorter cooldown, meaning in any trade that isn't over in under 3 seconds you'll do more damage with E. In order for Q to match E you need to use your W and hit with both Shurikens, and even then you'll do less damage for more energy (until you hit rank 4 Q). E is basically more damage, better wave clear, and doesn't require using your primary escape in order to do its maximum damage.
Expecting to be able to harrass with E without using shadow is quite optimistic, especially if you use it as a pro in comparison to Q...
On April 12 2013 01:37 Shikyo wrote: But why? You can lasthit with Q just fine even if it's lvl 1... whereas if you farm entire creepwaves in the range of Q, you're also in range for shadow E
On April 11 2013 17:44 ArchAngelSC wrote: Why do people max E over Q in lane with zed? Q does more damage in every way as far as I can tell. And you don't have to W to poke with it.
E has a much shorter cooldown, meaning in any trade that isn't over in under 3 seconds you'll do more damage with E. In order for Q to match E you need to use your W and hit with both Shurikens, and even then you'll do less damage for more energy (until you hit rank 4 Q). E is basically more damage, better wave clear, and doesn't require using your primary escape in order to do its maximum damage.
Expecting to be able to harrass with E without using shadow is quite optimistic, especially if you use it as a pro in comparison to Q...
Talking about trades not harass. Have to make the distinction between a trade and harass when comparing. Harass implies you are able to do it without being damage so realistically Q is better. Trade implies that you are going to be damage and generally only way for that to happen is if you commit in melee range, so E will do more if trade is longer than 3 seconds.
I will just paste what I asked in other thread. This is about Zed, so I would ask here:
Why is it that people say Zed's ulti is easily countered? Using flash/zhonya etc...well, I am pretty sure lots of champs' ulti can be countered by flash...and Zhonya, what is NOT countered by Zhonya....? The same could be said of Lux's ulti, just move left or right. Cait's ulti, just barrier at the right timing, and so on and so on....
So why do people act like Zed's ulti is way too counterable when there are many many champions whose ults can be countered using the same method? (Flash, zhonya)
On April 12 2013 12:30 dynwar7 wrote: I will just paste what I asked in other thread. This is about Zed, so I would ask here:
Why is it that people say Zed's ulti is easily countered? Using flash/zhonya etc...well, I am pretty sure lots of champs' ulti can be countered by flash...and Zhonya, what is NOT countered by Zhonya....? The same could be said of Lux's ulti, just move left or right. Cait's ulti, just barrier at the right timing, and so on and so on....
So why do people act like Zed's ulti is way too counterable when there are many many champions whose ults can be countered using the same method? (Flash, zhonya)
I think it's because a lot of people who don't play Zed think that lategame all he has is his ult, which isn't true. I think he relies on it more than, say, Caitlyn, but he's not totally dead if he doesn't ult you.
On April 12 2013 12:30 dynwar7 wrote: I will just paste what I asked in other thread. This is about Zed, so I would ask here:
Why is it that people say Zed's ulti is easily countered? Using flash/zhonya etc...well, I am pretty sure lots of champs' ulti can be countered by flash...and Zhonya, what is NOT countered by Zhonya....? The same could be said of Lux's ulti, just move left or right. Cait's ulti, just barrier at the right timing, and so on and so on....
So why do people act like Zed's ulti is way too counterable when there are many many champions whose ults can be countered using the same method? (Flash, zhonya)
As I answered in the other thread, because you have more time to react to it. You've got a 3 second window to Zhonya out of the damage of Zed ult You've got about a .5 second window to Zhonya in response to Veigar ult You've got barely any time at all to Zhonya out of Annie Flash-Tibbers. Flashing out of Zed ult doesn't hard counter Zed nearly as hard as some people seem to think, though.
On April 12 2013 01:37 Shikyo wrote: But why? You can lasthit with Q just fine even if it's lvl 1... whereas if you farm entire creepwaves in the range of Q, you're also in range for shadow E
On April 12 2013 01:23 Seuss wrote:
On April 11 2013 17:44 ArchAngelSC wrote: Why do people max E over Q in lane with zed? Q does more damage in every way as far as I can tell. And you don't have to W to poke with it.
E has a much shorter cooldown, meaning in any trade that isn't over in under 3 seconds you'll do more damage with E. In order for Q to match E you need to use your W and hit with both Shurikens, and even then you'll do less damage for more energy (until you hit rank 4 Q). E is basically more damage, better wave clear, and doesn't require using your primary escape in order to do its maximum damage.
Expecting to be able to harrass with E without using shadow is quite optimistic, especially if you use it as a pro in comparison to Q...
Talking about trades not harass. Have to make the distinction between a trade and harass when comparing. Harass implies you are able to do it without being damage so realistically Q is better. Trade implies that you are going to be damage and generally only way for that to happen is if you commit in melee range, so E will do more if trade is longer than 3 seconds.
Why would you be melee sustain with Zed for trades? ... A trade with Zed would imo be something like WEQ(W -> auto under 50% if possible) -> retreat
Pretty sure Zed loses like every single trade where he's melee with the opponent for 50 years
If you mean by trades something in which you are melee with your opponent, why would you trade with Zed at all when you can harrass instead?
On April 12 2013 12:30 dynwar7 wrote: I will just paste what I asked in other thread. This is about Zed, so I would ask here:
Why is it that people say Zed's ulti is easily countered? Using flash/zhonya etc...well, I am pretty sure lots of champs' ulti can be countered by flash...and Zhonya, what is NOT countered by Zhonya....? The same could be said of Lux's ulti, just move left or right. Cait's ulti, just barrier at the right timing, and so on and so on....
So why do people act like Zed's ulti is way too counterable when there are many many champions whose ults can be countered using the same method? (Flash, zhonya)
As I answered in the other thread, because you have more time to react to it. You've got a 3 second window to Zhonya out of the damage of Zed ult You've got about a .5 second window to Zhonya in response to Veigar ult You've got barely any time at all to Zhonya out of Annie Flash-Tibbers. Flashing out of Zed ult doesn't hard counter Zed nearly as hard as some people seem to think, though.
blocking zed's ult also means he doesn't get amplified damage on his other abilities
Late game I'm having a really hard time judging when and who to jump on in a fight, and it feels like I get owned really badly even when I got ahead early (Like, I have Hydra, Hexdrinker, Brutalizer, Giant's belt and I was just getting squished ) I guess this isn't really specific of a question, I think I need to wait for the initiation to happen, and be a little more patient about when I go in.
Also, holy shit Q takes all your energy! I'm having a hard time with energy - do I need to take better advantage of my energy-return on E or should I just not be pressing Q almost at all, or what?
Managing your energy as Zed basically comes down to two things: 1) Don't spam your skills 2) Seriously, don't spam your skills
The energy return is really just a bonus that lets you mash everything more than once when you go all in on someone. If you're maxing Q first, use it whenever you have a clean shot at someone or you're at full energy anyways; if you're maxing E first you should pretty much only use Q for last hits when absolutely necessary. Just sort of forget about the energy regen mechanic and focus on using your skills effectively by themselves.
The most important skill interaction is that E cuts a second off your W cooldown for each thing you hit. If you use W aggressively, make sure to spam E on as many creeps as you can to get W back up faster.
And yes, Zed has a hard time in late game teamfights. There's not really a way to get around this, especially once your targets start getting GA or Zhonya. The best thing to do is keep track of your shadows and use them to stay slippery.
Item CD mastery worth it? To get it he has to "waste" 3 points in the 2% speed mastery or so, but it makes Hydra active 8 seconds. I never got the mastery when building BotRK because the active is usually only used with his ultimate. You're rarely using it without the ult, and BotRK CD is much lower than his ult.
I'm really liking Hydra . It ives him more options because of possible rejuv bead start, the fact that Pickaxe is easier to get than BFSword, and more sustained damage when his ult is down.
Btw jungle Zed starting items 2 rejuv beads hp pots totes works. Not even that rough a clear though you get lower than normal towards the end, but you make it all up in the time it takes you to get to someones lane.
On April 15 2013 00:05 TSBspartacus wrote: Btw jungle Zed starting items 2 rejuv beads hp pots totes works. Not even that rough a clear though you get lower than normal towards the end, but you make it all up in the time it takes you to get to someones lane.
Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though?
On April 15 2013 00:05 TSBspartacus wrote: Btw jungle Zed starting items 2 rejuv beads hp pots totes works. Not even that rough a clear though you get lower than normal towards the end, but you make it all up in the time it takes you to get to someones lane.
Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though?
I started playing Zed top this week-end, he's really fun but his positionning is quite hard to use properly. I also never know how to start his items haha, I've been trying boots+3pots/doran/doran/giant's belt, boots+3pots/doran/doran/bt, boots+3pots/bruta/black cleaver or bt,...quite hard to know what opening to use (I still like the one with the belt, after it you rush BT and once you grab it you start to be really strong). Seems that bruta isn't that good on him (I guess except on targets that buy early chainmail, except Renekton, where HP is better imo), so I think I'll try picking hydra or another BT on him, to see what's better.
But with his ult, can you use your W and throw 3 shurikens (or 3 E), on your victim, which means even more damage ? If yes, if he takes all E from you and your shadows (W+ult), it's still 40% slow or even more ? And last one, if when you use your E on someone, both you and your shadow, is it 1 or 2s gained on W's cooldown (3 with ult) ?
I also wanted to know some tips to play him mid, I bought him to play him there (I prefer AD mid like Pantheon/Kha'Zix/Zed than AP, the only exception is Ryze) but found no informations. I guess making an early hexdrinker might help (to sell it later and pick something else, like when you have merc+GA ?), but not sure, so...
You can indeed hit people with three shurikens or three shadow slashes. Three shadow shurikens will all do damage, with the first one doing full damage and the other two doing half and restoring energy. The main shadow slash always does damage and the other two always do no damage and slow. Due to the mechanics of slows, this offers no benefit over just hitting with one shadow-shadow slash. Only the main shadow slash reduces W cooldown - the shadow-shadow slash will have no effect on CD. If you're in the middle of a full creep wave, though, that's 6 seconds off the cooldown right there, so it's not like you need another 6.
Playing him mid is just a matter of harassing with Q, being aggressive enough to get into the creepwave without taking too much damage, and using the threat of WEQ to zone him. An early Hexdrinker is what you should buy in any heavy burst lane; I also advocate taking Barrier over Ignite.
On April 15 2013 00:05 TSBspartacus wrote: Btw jungle Zed starting items 2 rejuv beads hp pots totes works. Not even that rough a clear though you get lower than normal towards the end, but you make it all up in the time it takes you to get to someones lane.
Doesn't not taking the machete kill your clear time though?
1st clear time yes, but no difference after that. The thing is, Zed can E (2x early) then 1 auto to clear most camps small minions. This is because of his passive and if you take AD Quints you will easily clear at the same speed as with machete, and get to your Tiamat 360 gold faster (that's a free pair of boots instead of machete, in exchange for perhaps 5 seconds faster clear).
I really like Hydra as a sustain item, makes a lot more sense than spirit of the elder lizard since you aren't wasting money on mana regen, or the inefficient DoT from it (they nerfed it a bit too much). With the changes to Tiamat combine price it will be a very nice pickup and allow for a nice early power spike and super fast clears. Jungling Zed whenever Kha'zix isn't available or I have a mana dependent mid.
Also which buff do people start? Is it situational or what? The cdr is nice from blue, the energy regen is negligible to start with, but red buff doesn't affect much apart from ganks so it might be best to pick that up second. I've been starting blue usually which gives me a nice opportunity post lvl-3 to pressure around the map until my red runs out. W-E-W-AA-Q is a great slow and if your laner has a slow or stun too you at least force a flash and often get a kill.
On April 15 2013 16:47 Sakray wrote: I started playing Zed top this week-end, he's really fun but his positionning is quite hard to use properly. I also never know how to start his items haha, I've been trying boots+3pots/doran/doran/giant's belt, boots+3pots/doran/doran/bt, boots+3pots/bruta/black cleaver or bt,...quite hard to know what opening to use (I still like the one with the belt, after it you rush BT and once you grab it you start to be really strong). Seems that bruta isn't that good on him (I guess except on targets that buy early chainmail, except Renekton, where HP is better imo), so I think I'll try picking hydra or another BT on him, to see what's better.
But with his ult, can you use your W and throw 3 shurikens (or 3 E), on your victim, which means even more damage ? If yes, if he takes all E from you and your shadows (W+ult), it's still 40% slow or even more ? And last one, if when you use your E on someone, both you and your shadow, is it 1 or 2s gained on W's cooldown (3 with ult) ?
I also wanted to know some tips to play him mid, I bought him to play him there (I prefer AD mid like Pantheon/Kha'Zix/Zed than AP, the only exception is Ryze) but found no informations. I guess making an early hexdrinker might help (to sell it later and pick something else, like when you have merc+GA ?), but not sure, so...
One of the best lane builds is Brutalizer, boots then either giants belt, vamp scepter or BF sword. It depends on what you need. If you are ahead pick up the BF sword or the vamp if you don't have enough money, then delay the giants belt. If you are really ahead go for Brutalizer, boots, BT. This will make you super scary but you have to be ahead to make it work. If you are behind or want to play safe then brutalizer boots giants belt is the way to go, maybe picking up 1 dorans (don't get 2, its too inefficient when you need to hit your BT or GB asap). If you need HP grab a ruby crystal for your BC or a warmogs later on, I often buy one somewhere between my BT if I back with not enough money.
If you want to go hydra start with rejuv beads and rush it, then boots and giants belt (maybe get the giants belt between tiamat and hydra if you are stuggling). Bear in mind that you will have good sustain but lack a huge amount of damage until you get your pickaxe so try to get that first to offset it. The early brutalizer is great on Zed, and is hard to pass up in any build.
Regarding mid, yes hexdrinker is good. But sometimes you will be ok with just merc treads if they don't build mpen, and that lets you put that money towards a bigger threat. As Zed you need the raw AD to be able to threaten 100-0 any time your ult is up and they pick a fight. If you can't do that they will be able to kill you after you run out of energy.
Hexdrinker still gives you a bit of AD which might be nice, but what about negatron ? Is it worth buying it against mid with cc so you can build QSS then upgrade it on mercurial scimitar to have more AD ? I guess it's similar to hexdrinker but with a very good passive, more mres and more ad, what do you think ?
not really an advisable start or even item to get, usually the tenacity from masteries or mercs is enough to mitigate the CC an average midlaner puts out, you need to build straight AD on Zed or you won't do anything in the power spike levels from 7 to 11, phase in which you have to get most of the kill or you'll become pretty much irrelevant in any team fight unless you can zone out their squishies super hard..
Hexdrinker is really good, negatron/qss means that you aren't seeing any AD on it until you buy another BF sword for merc scim (which would be a super late buy)
I'd only get QSS if you're looking at some really retarded suppression-based CC chains.
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK?
My current build looks like;
Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver
but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk.
Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk?
Hydra is basically the best of both worlds. You get a boss scaling activate which is basically the same as your E (with a 10s cd instead of long cd like BORK) while having close to the same AD as BT. And you steal so much health off of 1 minion wave or jungle camp, something you actually don't do that well normally unless you don't use E (which lets you do the ADcarry thing of "ahh i got low but got out of the fight, brb 2 sec healing to full off wraiths")
It's true you lose a little bit of sticking power from BORK active, but between R, W, and a 40-60% slow, you have so much sticking power, it usually won't be a huge problem. Maybe if you're trying to glue yourself to an Ezreal or Caitlyn, I guess.
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK?
My current build looks like;
Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver
but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk.
Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk?
Hydra is basically the best of both worlds. You get a boss scaling activate which is basically the same as your E (with a 10s cd instead of long cd like BORK) while having close to the same AD as BT. And you steal so much health off of 1 minion wave or jungle camp, something you actually don't do that well normally unless you don't use E (which lets you do the ADcarry thing of "ahh i got low but got out of the fight, brb 2 sec healing to full off wraiths")
But the build-up of hydra is terrible when still trying to edge out your opponent in lane, but I guess the farming aspect works well. Will try it out.
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK?
My current build looks like;
Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver
but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk.
Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk?
Hydra is basically the best of both worlds. You get a boss scaling activate which is basically the same as your E (with a 10s cd instead of long cd like BORK) while having close to the same AD as BT. And you steal so much health off of 1 minion wave or jungle camp, something you actually don't do that well normally unless you don't use E (which lets you do the ADcarry thing of "ahh i got low but got out of the fight, brb 2 sec healing to full off wraiths")
But the build-up of hydra is terrible when still trying to edge out your opponent in lane, but I guess the farming aspect works well. Will try it out.
I do kinda agree (but saving for a BF sword can be obnoxious too.) However, Zed honestly doesn't mind just having a shovefest in lane - you're a better roamer than you are a Lane-duelist. Also, we're gonna be seeing a buff to the buildup of Hydra next patch, shifting 400 gold from the combine of Tiamat over to the combine of Hydra, making the path a lot smoother. (And you CAN start rejuv bead, which will be nice when they nerf red elixir starts into the ground.)
On April 16 2013 00:38 Sedzz wrote: I've been playing a lot of Zed lately, one thing I can't seem to figure out though, should I prioritize BT or BotRK?
My current build looks like;
Scepter > boots > brutalizer > botrk > cleaver
but I'm almost certain I'm going to get more of an AD boost out of BT, I just like to build botrk.
Can someone convince me I should go BT most of the time unless the situation calls for Botrk?
BotRK is OP in duels. Get it if you're trading kills a lot, the AD boost is better if you are farming and trading harass.
I dunno, I feel like if your opponent is trying to go toe-to-toe with you, BT or Hydra are going to shine more. BORK's special benefits really seem to be the % damage (so if your opponent is a healthstacker like Shen) or if you need chase power from the 4 second 30% MS thievery.
Considering that most bruisers (like Shen) take a giant dump on you 1v1 if you're not significantly ahead of them, it's unlikely BORK is going to be enough help, even though it's a good item on paper for those situations.
what's people's opinion on energy regen runes? I've never really played energy champs but I've been trying zed out on free week and I really like him, but I just run out of energy so fast in a teamfight. probably not quints (ad too important) but seals in the mid lane or jungle could be viable?
Energy regen runes are a teamfight crutch that give minimal benefit in lane and supplant other, better runes. There's a knack to managing your energy - with enough practice, you'll stop running out of energy at bad times. Mostly just resist the temptation to think, "Oh, free spells! Let me spam them everywhere!", especially with your Q. Here's my Zed lane skill usage guideline (Q max build): Q: Use whenever I'm pretty sure I'll hit them or at least get some cs. W: Use defensively as necessary; use aggressively if I'm ~full energy and relatively safe from ganks E: If W is on cd spam this on creeps; otherwise only use this as part of a WEQ or ult combo R: If it's off cooldown. (Sometimes you gotta harass them a little first though).
Also, Barrier absolutely destroys Zed ult and makes him a lot less scary 1v1. As soon as he slides toward you, pop it and it'll absorb most of the damage you'd take from his combo, which kills the multiplicative damage part as well.
Is BT really needed on Zed ? I mean, I've watched LCS between FnatiC and GG and each time they had a Zed, he never bought a BT. I'm actually using BotRK>Black Cleaver>Frozen Mallet>Last Whisper>Guardian Angel (with Tabi Ninja, not sure if Mercury are worth it) in toplane, gonna probably use the same in midline. If they go for armor first I buy bruta first then BotRK, but with this stuff I realised you have enough damage to burst down everyone (except ultratanky champs but after lanephase it's not worth it to use it on them) while being super tanky.
I pick FM over Warmog for the +30dmg and slow (which is quite nice), and GA because when you play Zed, you're automatically gonna be the n°1 target in every teamfight (score doesn't even matter), so if they still decide to focus you, you're tanky enough to kill someone before your GA proc, and your team can damage the rest of their team.
do you reckon dshield + pot going into bruta is better than double rejuv + pots and then tiamat? I'm not sold on hydra on zed if I'm honest, bruta -> bt seems stronger but I've only played like 4 games so far
also, max q or w after e? maxing q seems better if you just afkfarm to 18 but that seems to defeat the point of zed
You should max Q first, not E. E is 2nd now after the nerf a while back (except in a few matchups), and W is always last now. Build I like best in most matchups is Dshield+pot->Cutlass->Brutalizer->finish BotRK->LW->GA/QSS->finish BC->BT/any other def item. Get boots whenever you can around the timing of your Cutlass/Brut.
Hydra also works and the damage is actually pretty even with the BotRK build but I still prefer Blade for the active because it might allow you to get off a couple more autos. Zed's waveclear/splitpush is basically god tier anyway even without Hydra, so you don't really need it.
On September 08 2013 17:21 greggy wrote: do you reckon dshield + pot going into bruta is better than double rejuv + pots and then tiamat? I'm not sold on hydra on zed if I'm honest, bruta -> bt seems stronger but I've only played like 4 games so far
also, max q or w after e? maxing q seems better if you just afkfarm to 18 but that seems to defeat the point of zed
As far as dshield goes, because faker does it is good enough for me.
As other dude said, Q>E>W. After the changes, Q does quite a bit more damage if the first target you hit is your opponent.
Hydra for more damage, Botrk if you want the slow and slightly less damage (honestly both 1 shot any ap w/o zhoyna's and anyone else w/o >1 armor item if you aren't behind in farm)
I think there was math done showing that Cutlass+brutalizer was the highest amount of damage, but it does slow your Bork down, so it might not be as worth it.
I'm slightly confused - do you get cutlass and bruta, build 1 defensive item and then get more damage? or is it cutlass, bruta, damage and then defensive items? where does BT fit in? is it completely obsolete - although seeing how fast zed farms stacking it shouldn't be a problem at all, should it? hydra does have the advantage of another active to use during combo though.
I think I'm gonna massively revamp this guide next weekend. The meta has changed and I've also gotten MUCH better as a player, so it should be a lot more useful than the dump it is right now.
On September 09 2013 05:49 greggy wrote: I'm slightly confused - do you get cutlass and bruta, build 1 defensive item and then get more damage? or is it cutlass, bruta, damage and then defensive items? where does BT fit in? is it completely obsolete - although seeing how fast zed farms stacking it shouldn't be a problem at all, should it? hydra does have the advantage of another active to use during combo though.
the most popular build is
Cutlass > Bruta > upgrade to Botrk > LW > GA > upgrade to BC with a situational defensive item anywhere after LW.
you can do the same build with Hydra where cutlass = tiamat and botrk = hydra but it's not as popular.
On September 09 2013 05:49 greggy wrote: I'm slightly confused - do you get cutlass and bruta, build 1 defensive item and then get more damage? or is it cutlass, bruta, damage and then defensive items? where does BT fit in? is it completely obsolete - although seeing how fast zed farms stacking it shouldn't be a problem at all, should it? hydra does have the advantage of another active to use during combo though.
the most popular build is
Cutlass > Bruta > upgrade to Botrk > LW > GA > upgrade to BC with a situational defensive item anywhere after LW.
you can do the same build with Hydra where cutlass = tiamat and botrk = hydra but it's not as popular.
Bruta's DPS increase / gold falls off pretty quickly.
I think you should get it as a first item, at the latest after a few dorans, if at all. Bruta's DPS falls off with level as the opponent gets more armor. You better be valuing that slow at a metric ton.
Level 9 Level 18
There's a problem with this spreadsheet. I didn't calculate burst damage by level and assumed all skills were at their level 18 states. But this benefits both Brutalizer and Botrk and it should benefit them equally. This is for Rengar not Zed but it should still apply. Also I had a bug for black cleaver for level 18.
i buy nearly always bruta first into botrk, would only buy cutlass first if you really need sustain in lane the slow isn't really needed because you oneshot people anyway
I personally go doran's shield and pot 1st, then cutlass, then bruta, then botrk then mobility boots. Then LW, BC or GA if I'm quite fed, and I finish usually with BT, or if I took Hexdrinker or QSS I finish it.
Imo the cutlass slow isn't important, but the damage of its active is still a good boost to your ultimate.
On October 10 2013 21:53 emraaa wrote: i buy nearly always bruta first into botrk, would only buy cutlass first if you really need sustain in lane the slow isn't really needed because you oneshot people anyway
well, yeah... but the damage from bruta isn't really needed, because you one-shot people anyways
On October 10 2013 21:53 emraaa wrote: i buy nearly always bruta first into botrk, would only buy cutlass first if you really need sustain in lane the slow isn't really needed because you oneshot people anyway
well, yeah... but the damage from bruta isn't really needed, because you one-shot people anyways
Don't underestimate the 10% CDR from brutalizer either. Sometimes having W up 1.5 seconds earlier or getting in that extra E can make a big difference that may not translate to direct numbers.
Thoughts on the new ult and shadow nerfs? I feel like the new W is too clunky, but I guess it was well deserved since I can't really think of any other champs that have that kind of a skillshot that moved as fast as the old zed W. The new ult is easier to dodge skillshots with, but the placement of the 3rd shadow is so awkward...it's good for a free flash and a get-out-of-jail-free card, but other than that, the shadow does like no dmg.
On November 01 2013 11:28 imBLIND wrote: Thoughts on the new ult and shadow nerfs? I feel like the new W is too clunky, but I guess it was well deserved since I can't really think of any other champs that have that kind of a skillshot that moved as fast as the old zed W. The new ult is easier to dodge skillshots with, but the placement of the 3rd shadow is so awkward...it's good for a free flash and a get-out-of-jail-free card, but other than that, the shadow does like no dmg.
i think the idea is to force you to commit and ult from close range if you want to get a kill, rather than ulting in from across the screen in having full burst right away
I've gotten some problems adjusting to the new overall feel of the character, I think he is still very strong but jumping on people that have their flash up is awkward as hell now. Also getting the shadow's shuriken to hit is a pain now...
Can I get some general tips on how to lane against Akali? Seems like every time I play mid lane Zed I get her and she stomps me. I've tried DShield start, Longsword-3pots, DBlade, she wins every trade and just spellvamps away all of my poke. And then after first back when I have probably cutlass + mercs she has a revolver and seekers and I don't do any damage and her ult murders me. Do I just tell my jungle to camp me? Roam?
the following advice is not based on actual experience try hexdunker first item, god tier against allin mages don't let her auto you if she's hit you with Q jungle camping is a great solution as long as you let her push once she starts getting armor you just can't keep up with her damage; shove lane and roam
what do mercs do vs akali?waste of 850 gold. dshield+pot>cutlass>hexdrinker>bruta q>e>w>q>q dont start trading until you get lvl2 you outshove her ez @lvl1 hit lvl2 and keep harassing by time you hit 6 she either has seekers or hextech she cant or shouldnt have both. recall get pink+cutlass on first buy/pre 6 and just combo her she probably wont die but it will chunk her good and you get breathing room to farm/roam
On December 16 2013 08:46 aurawashere wrote: what do mercs do vs akali?waste of 850 gold. dshield+pot>cutlass>hexdrinker>bruta q>e>w>q>q dont start trading until you get lvl2 you outshove her ez @lvl1 hit lvl2 and keep harassing by time you hit 6 she either has seekers or hextech she cant or shouldnt have both. recall get pink+cutlass on first buy/pre 6 and just combo her she probably wont die but it will chunk her good and you get breathing room to farm/roam
Granted in the specific game that finally made me admit I needed help in the matchup, the aforementioned Akali had an assist off an invade and a kill when my top lane decided it would be great to come get the enemy wraiths when he was at half health (we were blue side - "Zed no roam?" uh, how am I supposed to get there before she does?). So I was probably going to get destroyed anyways.
Weird feeding aside, should I *not* get mercs against her? I thought that magic resistance boots would be a better buy than something like cooldown. Or is just mobi into roaming the right idea?
I get what you're saying for the most part, obviously the pink ward is for when I ult and she goes into her shroud - but afterwards if I don't force her to b or kill her, doesn't she does take that? I feel like a 100g pink is a really big investment into what amounts to an extreme form of poke. Especially if it's a matchup that I'm going to struggle with?
On December 16 2013 08:46 aurawashere wrote: what do mercs do vs akali?waste of 850 gold. dshield+pot>cutlass>hexdrinker>bruta q>e>w>q>q dont start trading until you get lvl2 you outshove her ez @lvl1 hit lvl2 and keep harassing by time you hit 6 she either has seekers or hextech she cant or shouldnt have both. recall get pink+cutlass on first buy/pre 6 and just combo her she probably wont die but it will chunk her good and you get breathing room to farm/roam
Granted in the specific game that finally made me admit I needed help in the matchup, the aforementioned Akali had an assist off an invade and a kill when my top lane decided it would be great to come get the enemy wraiths when he was at half health (we were blue side - "Zed no roam?" uh, how am I supposed to get there before she does?). So I was probably going to get destroyed anyways.
Weird feeding aside, should I *not* get mercs against her? I thought that magic resistance boots would be a better buy than something like cooldown. Or is just mobi into roaming the right idea?
I get what you're saying for the most part, obviously the pink ward is for when I ult and she goes into her shroud - but afterwards if I don't force her to b or kill her, doesn't she does take that? I feel like a 100g pink is a really big investment into what amounts to an extreme form of poke. Especially if it's a matchup that I'm going to struggle with?
Akali doesn't have much CC (shroud which isn't affected by mercs) and mercs cost more than boots 1+null magic mantle while providing same/similar combat stats.
He thinks it's better to wait off on finishing the mercs until you need crowd control reduction more.
Who cares about Maw? You're against Akali, and you need a power spike NOW to deal with her. Hexdrinker is an efficient way to increase your damage and make it much harder for Akali to burst you down. So, with Mercs, you spend 850 gold (assuming boots 1) for 25 MR. Tenacity doesn't help you fight Akali at all. With Hexdrinker, you spend 1350 gold for the same amount of MR, 25 AD so that you can actually hurt Akali, and a shield that basically gives you 250 extra health when she allins you. That's 500 more gold for a pile of combat-relevant stats.
On December 19 2013 22:50 Yes Im Otto wrote: Why is hexdrinker better? Maw of malmortius is not THAT great....mercs is pretty good for the tenacity
The tenacity on mercs is great but it's a useless stat for the purposes of laning against Akali. By all means get mercs later in the game for the MS, MR, and tenacity, but it's not useful in lane so it's a bad usage of your precious early game gold. Which is pretty much exactly what has already been said earlier in this page.
On December 16 2013 08:46 aurawashere wrote: what do mercs do vs akali?waste of 850 gold. dshield+pot>cutlass>hexdrinker>bruta q>e>w>q>q dont start trading until you get lvl2 you outshove her ez @lvl1 hit lvl2 and keep harassing by time you hit 6 she either has seekers or hextech she cant or shouldnt have both. recall get pink+cutlass on first buy/pre 6 and just combo her she probably wont die but it will chunk her good and you get breathing room to farm/roam
Granted in the specific game that finally made me admit I needed help in the matchup, the aforementioned Akali had an assist off an invade and a kill when my top lane decided it would be great to come get the enemy wraiths when he was at half health (we were blue side - "Zed no roam?" uh, how am I supposed to get there before she does?). So I was probably going to get destroyed anyways.
Weird feeding aside, should I *not* get mercs against her? I thought that magic resistance boots would be a better buy than something like cooldown. Or is just mobi into roaming the right idea?
I get what you're saying for the most part, obviously the pink ward is for when I ult and she goes into her shroud - but afterwards if I don't force her to b or kill her, doesn't she does take that? I feel like a 100g pink is a really big investment into what amounts to an extreme form of poke. Especially if it's a matchup that I'm going to struggle with?
Akali doesn't have much CC (shroud which isn't affected by mercs) and mercs cost more than boots 1+null magic mantle while providing same/similar combat stats.
He thinks it's better to wait off on finishing the mercs until you need crowd control reduction more.
Well. I'm dumb. :/
With the changes to your ult shadow, I'm assuming the new burst is something along the lines of ult --> w behind them --> mash e/q --> botrk active + autos, yeah? Or am I misunderstanding something? All I know is that I'm having trouble killing people with ult like I used to and I think it's because I have no shadow helping me (obviously?).
yo, I just played as Morg vs Zed. I never played him but I'm curious, how do you "counter" mikaels? Do you have to use the time when Death mark is up and crucible down to make plays? That seems pretty stressful to me and other than a bit of dmg with his other abilities he just doesnt seem to bring anything to the table.
So is he basically forced to split push to avoid the cleanse (and maybe exhaust?)
mikaels doesnt cleanse zeds ult[qss does] if you land everything with a couple of autos the slight heal from mikaels wont matter assuming youre hitting a squishy their head will pop off
On August 20 2014 17:21 aurawashere wrote: mikaels doesnt cleanse zeds ult[qss does] if you land everything with a couple of autos the slight heal from mikaels wont matter assuming youre hitting a squishy their head will pop off
really? I could have sworn the Death mark didnt pop. Thats weird, I dont think the heal is that strong to negate that much dmg from a 4 item zed. Graves didnt have a QSS either and he was at half hp afterwards. Man i wish there was a replay function. Thanks anyway
On August 20 2014 17:21 aurawashere wrote: mikaels doesnt cleanse zeds ult[qss does] if you land everything with a couple of autos the slight heal from mikaels wont matter assuming youre hitting a squishy their head will pop off
really? I could have sworn the Death mark didnt pop. Thats weird, I dont think the heal is that strong to negate that much dmg from a 4 item zed. Graves didnt have a QSS either and he was at half hp afterwards. Man i wish there was a replay function. Thanks anyway
The zed probably just missed everything. The difference between hitting 0-1 q's and 1 auto, and hitting all 3 + 2-3 autos, is amazingly huge when it comes to oneshotting squishies.
On August 20 2014 17:21 aurawashere wrote: mikaels doesnt cleanse zeds ult[qss does] if you land everything with a couple of autos the slight heal from mikaels wont matter assuming youre hitting a squishy their head will pop off
really? I could have sworn the Death mark didnt pop. Thats weird, I dont think the heal is that strong to negate that much dmg from a 4 item zed. Graves didnt have a QSS either and he was at half hp afterwards. Man i wish there was a replay function. Thanks anyway
The zed probably just missed everything. The difference between hitting 0-1 q's and 1 auto, and hitting all 3 + 2-3 autos, is amazingly huge when it comes to oneshotting squishies.
Very true. Takes a lot of practice to get this down right. I would suggest looking up some youtube videos on it to get it down. Very important to hit the extra auto attacks on top of the different ways you can do your spell damage