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Hello TL community. I start addicting to TL forums since Moonbear wrote his MLG Summer wrap-up topic. This is how I play support Taric at gold Elo and I wanna share.
(Updated to patch 3.5)
Taric is a very versatile support, can fit in many strategies and works with many ADCs also. Because his initiating is very obvious and easy to see, he is the king of soloQ support, maintaining over 55% win rate.
Old TL guide LoL Wiki
Skills + Show Spoiler + GemcraftTaric's basic attacks deal bonus magic damage equal to 2% of his maximum mana. This bonus damage is doubled against champions. It gives about 20 bonus damage to your auto-attack against champions at early game, so you don't have to worry about the base AD nerf. Now you have to be more aggressive, instead of spamming Q since Gemcraft used to give MP. Imbue Active: Taric channels earthen energy to heal his target ally. As the magic flows through them he is healed for the same amount. If Taric heals only himself, the heal will be 40% more effective. His autoattacks on champions decrease this spell's cooldown by 3 seconds each or by 1 second if hitting non-champions. Your heal. Every ADC loves it. Leveling it up only gives more 40 HP per heal, but costs 15 MP more. So I don't max it at early levels. You may ask if our ADC is low, then what should Taric do? Well, I think Taric MUST do the risky play for his ADC and block all incoming skillshots. Imbue has 40% extra bonus when using on self, so both of you and your ADC should be fine. ShatterPassive: Taric hardens crystals around him, providing a permanent armor bonus to himself and nearby allies. Additionally, he increases the Armor of himself and all nearby allied champions by 12% of his total armor. Active: Taric shatters the crystals surrounding him, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies and decreasing their armor for 4 seconds. His own passive armor bonus is not in effect during the cooldown. This is your bread and butter skill. At level ONE, it gives you 15 armor (only 10 if you activate W), and 5 armor to your ADC (Aegis only gives a 10 armor aura). Having armor is the most important thing to outlast your opponent. At max level, Shatter gives Taric 40 armor and the other 10. Assuming 1 armor costs 20 gold, you received 20*40=800 gold, and your ally 20*10=200, for a total 800+4*200=1600 gold. But it is not only that, the active is very handy when trading. It is the reason why Graves+Taric is one of the best duo. At max level, Shatter will reduce more armor than The Black Cleaver (full stacks), unless your enemy has more than 120 armor. You should max Shatter ASAP. Activating it doesn't make your ADC lose the armor bonus, so feel free to use. DazzleActive: Taric emits a brilliant ball of prismatic light at a target enemy, dealing magic damage (lower damage the farther the target is), and stunning them for 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 / 1.5 / 1.6 seconds. A stun with 625 cast range. Nothing much to say here, you can use it offensively, or for peeling. The duration is nearly constant, so don't level it up until level 14. Just remember that Dazzle has long cooldown (14s at the first level) so only initiate with it when your ADC is ready. Don't engage when your stun is down. RadianceActive: Taric slams the ground, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies. Taric gains attack damage and ability power and receives an aura that grants nearby allies half of the bonuses. A moderate ultimate, but short cooldown. It gives you 30 / 50 / 70 AD and AP, your allies receive 15 / 25 / 35. Use Radiance BEFORE Shatter for higher damage. Assuming Taric is at level 6, and has 79 armor, using E+R+W will deal atleast 40+171+130+0.6*30+0.3*79 = 383 magic damage. Exhaust can reduce 10 MR, so if your enemy has 40 MR, you will cut about 295 HP of him (314 HP if you use magic penetration Marks). And don't forget the huge physical damage will come afterwards. Level it if you can. Radiance gives bursting damage AND an offensive aura. Consider it as a Baron bufff, use it whenever you can, killing dragon or pushing or fighting.
Overview after seeing skills set + Show Spoiler +- Moderate sustain (Q+W) - Moderate CC.(E) - High burst damage (R+W) - Weak poking ability.(W, perhaps) In short, Taric is a jack of all trades, but master of none. So you can build him in a tanky way when facing brutal supports such as Alistar or Blitz, but in a offensive way against Soraka.
Skill build: + Show Spoiler +R>W>Q>E. EQWWWR. Sometimes I delay Q to level 4 if I feel safe (after getting FB or swapping lane).
Summoner Spells: + Show Spoiler +Flash+Exhaust.
Flash can secure initiating play, also Taric needs a disengaging tool. Exhaust is very versatile too. Your team needs it, and support is the man who can sacrifice pure damaging tool (Smite/Ignite) for a more defensive one. At late game, it will reduce 1/3 burst damage comes from their carry. Neat.
Masteries + Show Spoiler +1/13/16 is the best choice. Since Taric has huge armor, you need HP (and pseudo HP such as healing, regenation) and MR. If you pick Exhaust (and you should do in MOST cases), Summoner's Wrath will be handy (your opponent will take about 7% extra damage), You will need Unyielding because it works like a healing ability (2 HP each damage tick), which is very good when combining with armor. Block is the best mastery for melee at season 3 because it mitigates attack damage (according to ianzzz94's post, it works BEFORE armor calculation). It is amazing when facing long-term attacking trade. I take only one point in Perseverance because it's only better than Vigor (the old Hp5 mastery) when you are below 50% HP. Also Resistance, because level it up only gives more 1.5 MR. Mastermind is the MOST IMPORTANT one. When you use summoner spells, most of the time, your enemies also use their. By having Mastermind, you will have an advantage when their SS are down but not yours. If you use Exhaust to bait another one, then you may have 21s window time (and over 1 minute if you use Exhaust to bait Flash). Wealth and Explorer Ward are good masteries, since they gives you more wards. Warding is crucial while facing aggressive enemies (I will explain it later). And why should we take Pickpocket if Taric is melee?
Runes + Show Spoiler +Unlike masteries, runes only give you pure stats, so you should build runes AFTER building masteries. In preason3, the ambient gold has been increased from 13/10s to 16/10s. That's like having free three G10 Quints. So you don't have to pick G10 Quints anymore.
Marks: Because Taric has huge burst damage, Magic pen Marks are great on him (Mistake and Madlife use those too). You may use Armor Marks if you think there isn't many chances for playing aggressively.
Seals: Armor Seals are the obvious choice. I don't like G10 Seals because you don't need G10 that much, plus it takes 18 minutes and 48 seconds to beat AR Seals in term of gold-efficiency. However, you can pick up some G10 Seals when swapping lane.
Glyphs: Use flat MR Glyphs if facing bursting lane. MR level one if not.
Quints: MS Quints provides mobility for using R+W. G10 Quints are okay, though.
My most used setup is Magic pen Marks+Armor Seals+MR level Glyphs+MS Quints.
Another setup is the classic one: Armor Marks+Armor Seals+MR Glyphs+G10 Quints. I recommend using it against Leona or Alistar. In this case, you shouldn't force a fight, just help your ADC farm farm farm and wait to level 5-6.
Item
Starting Items: + Show Spoiler +2 green wards + 1 pink + Faerie Charm + 2 HP potions. Sometimes I have to buy 4 green wards + 1 pink + 1 HP potion + 1 MP potion, You need ward not only for bottom lane, but also the jungle (for invading / counter invading). I am very against Cloth Armor starting even while facing Blitz, because learning W already gives you 15 armor at level 1 (equal to a Cloth). Instead, push the lane a little bit (so their Blitz won't stay in the nearer bush), then use 2 wards (one at the river, one at the farther bush). Blitz doesn't cooperate well with jungle gank, so pushing CAREFULLY is the best answer. Use your green ward (or better, Explorer ward) to bait their pink one, then clear it with your pink. After the nerf, Flask is not considerable anymore. It is too expensive, and Regrowth Pendant + Faerie Charm are better since you will upgrade them to Philo. Boots starting sucks now. You have 365 MS with boots, only more than 10 MS when compare with 3 MS Quints.
Mid game + Show Spoiler +You should rush Sightstone (or replace with Doran's Shield if you want to capture their object early). It not only gives ward, but also be the new Heart of Gold. Then upgrade it to Ruby Sightstone after getting Philosopher's Stone. Philo is also a good item afterwards because it give you more G10, and can be upgrade to Shurelia. Buy it in your first Recall if you are afraid of poking. Most of the time you will get Shurelia after Ruby Sightstone. If your opponent can counter mobility because of an AOE hard CC ult such as Catalysm or Curse of the Sad Mummy, don't force yourself to buy Philo. I am not a fan of Kage's Lucky Pick or Mana Manipulator because Taric can boost a huge amount of damage for his ADC, just by staying alive. Getting tanky aura based items will be better, though Aegis is expensive and doesn't fit Taric. If the enemies have double AP, tell your bruiser/jungler that he should rush Bulwark. If you really need the G10 comes from Kage, it's okay. Upgrade it to Shard of True Ice (when duo with Urgot), or Twin Shadow (if you stomp the enemy ADC). After the laning phase, you should buy Boots of Speed. Don't get CDR from Ionian's Boots, but Kindlegem. It gives HP (the best tanky stats for you at all stages), also has MANY upgrade paths. Personally I prefer Locket because of its active - more HP for your team. Zeke's Herald is okay because lifesteal synergies with armor, but it should be your last item.
Boots choices: + Show Spoiler +Okay, now our boots need upgrading. In this section I will only analyze about tier 2 boots, because a support doesn't have that much money for an early tier 3 boots. Homeguard is the best choice since it is cheap and useful at defence.
Boots of Mobility: It is the best if your bottom lane do well - so you can roam and gank like another jungler. Get it right after Sightstone if you have taken down a turret. Mercury Tread: It gives MR, and you need MR. But Tenacity is not that important, also Tread is expensive. Buy it at late game if you don't have any tier 2 boots yet. Ninja Tabi: Not a common choice. GG Edward chose it because he tanked dragon, and the enemy team had AD caster.
Full items path: + Show Spoiler +Overall, you may see yourself running Mistake' setup: Sightstone + Philo + Boots of Speed -> Shurelia + Locket + any tier 2 Boots -> Homeguard Boots.
Synergy + Show Spoiler +Like I said, Taric doesn't have enough sustain for long term trading, or enormous CC for peeling. On the other hand, Taric' Shatter can bring a huge amount of damage if his ADC has some kind of bursting physical damage. Therefore, Graves or Miss Fortune are very obvious lane partners. Here are all good examples:
Draven: His spinning axes deals insane damage at early. At level 2, if the enemy is caught by Taric's Dazzle, he will receive 3*38+3*1.45*69=414 physical damage (just by THREE spinning axes). If Taric uses his W well, this combo will chunk down 60% HP of the enemy. From there, just wait about 12s, then go all-in if they dare to stay. Because of that, one cheese strategy of this duo partner is killing Double Golem if you are at blue side (Wolf at purple side if your jungler starts at Wraith). Learning W will give Taric enough armor to tank golems, also having burst damage. After that just eat HP potions, kill minions for a quick level 2, then go all in. Most of the time you will burn their Flash+Exhaust. Take your advantage from there.
What your opponents gonna do: They may swap lane, to eschew fighting against a bully lane. You may do as they did, but I don't recommend since it will take too much time. Another response (prefered if they are at Purple side) is invading - at the first buff, or right in your double golem . In my opinion, you only need to drop your Explorer Ward at the tri-bush, then a green ward at Blue entrance. The last way is picking a super poking lane, for example, Varus + Lulu (MYM used this against paiN). By keeping zoning and auto-attacking minions, they will push your lane very far, force you to last hit under turret, then harass you until you are low enough. I guess the only solutions are pushing.and controlling the bushes with wards.
Ezreal: : The lovely gay duo. Your lane can poke, can sustain, can survive, can go all-in also. The first 2 levels you don't have enough burst, so just push and poke, At level 4 you can go all-in. Consider Mikael's Crucible because Ezreal doesn't need your Shurelia.
Graves: Same as Draven. You can do level 2 cheese strategy as well, but you should go all-in at level 5 or 6. His passive lasts in 3 seconds, so be careful when all minions are dead - they will try to trade right after True Grit is down.
Miss Fortune: The classic bully lane. Lots of trade, also can burst very well when enemies are low. You may see many people run this duo now. Try to go all-in at level 6 too.
Sivir: This one is a bit tricky. Taric doesn't really bring what she need in laning phase. People pick Sivir because she can survive in all killing lane. She will make Alistar, Blitzcrank or Urgot cry just by pressing E. And Taric is her best friend because he is also beefy. You will have the most safe laning phase. After seeing enemies waste their important abilities, you can set up a perferct Boomerang with your Dazzle. Sivir can burst with her Q+AA+W. If your enemies swap lane, don't care. Just take a turret down, then swap lane, then push again. Your double aura works very well with eachother. Don't hesitate to use Radiant for damaging minions and giving AD to Sivir. I don't recommend use Sivir too much though, because now all ADCs can do her work (split-pushing) while having only Statikk's Shiv.
Tristana: An all-in lane, but that's all. Very high killing potential at level 2-4, but everything is down if you are zoned. Basically, just meet Ezreal+Zyra, and QQ.
Urgot: Your stun will help Urgot land his E easily. Urgot also loves your Shatter. If your enemies play carelessly, only god save them. You should upgrade your Faerie Charm to Mana Manipulator over Philo - Urgot needs mana EVEN with Tear, also he doesn't need MS that much. When having Shard of True Ice, use the active on Urgot right after his Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser, and now you have Lulu's ultimate.
Match-up against supports + Show Spoiler +Alistar: Very hard. There isn't many thing you can do against this cow. When you stun his ADC, he will Headbutt yours aswell. You also cannot prevent that infamous Q+W combo. Be cautious at level 2 because his killing potential is far better than yours.
Blitzcrank; Favourite matchup. You just have to stand between your ADC and him. If you are grabbed, Q on yourself then hit his ADC. Buy Doran's Shield, and victory is yours if your ADC doesn't suck too hard.
Janna: She is picked mostly because of sustaining - and you have enough burst to punish her. If you doesn't get caught by Tornado, you will win.
Leona: Unlike Blitz, she can jump over you. And her burst is still better, so just let her push. Leona is very susceptive to ganking, so after green warding enemy's bush, pink warding the river and ask your jungler. Her E has long cooldown such like Dazzle, so you can punish her when it's on cooldown. Buy 2x Ruby Crystal to survive her burst.
Lulu: Hard lane also. Her Q HURTS you, and you won't do much. Don't let her push, otherwise her Pix will harass both of you. She may buy Doran's Shield to counter your burst, so don't be greedy if she do that. Instead, finish your Philo and play safe until you reach level 7-9 (so your Shatter will be at level 4-5).
Nami: Fragile and vulnerable to quick trade. But her Aqua Prison is dangerous though, so try to dodge it. Nami usually go with low mobility ADC so just kill her carry.
Nunu: People pick him because Bloodboil will give huge AS to his carry (most of them are lategame powerhouse such as Kog'Maw, Tristana and Vayne). Overall Nunu is the most tanky support so you won't kill him. His snowball will prevent your ADC from following your stun. Normally he will max out his E, try to poke and wait to level 6.
About Nunu's partner: Caitlyn are weak against Taric because of her low damage out put, however you have to pay attention to her traps. Push, then step on them if she is far enough. Vayne is a big threat at lategame so try yourself best to kill her (and it's easy because of her low attack range).
Sona: A walking minion with abilities. If she isn't cautious you can get a kill immediately. Don't force fight at level 6 though.
Note: Her partner is usually Ashe, and they are very tricky. The most hilarious strategy is waiting at your bottm bush before 1:40, then get First Blood since Ashe has a guarantee crit. You can easliy counter that with an Explorer Ward. The other way is killing Double Golem, then force a trade when you are still level 1. Like I said, invade her jungle is the best answer. If not, just retreat and wait for your level 2. Since Ashe+Sona can poke a lot, don't let them push. Another situation is Ezreal, or Corki. They have insane mobility, so don't stun them. Try to catch up Sona, or you may lose lane.
Soraka: Again, you have the advantage. Try to trade at level 2 and 6. Burst her down, especially after she healed her ADC. She is out of meta now. Usually people pick Soraka with Graves/Urgot if they cannot choose Taric.
Zyra: I guess this is the hardest matchup. Her poke has longest range, and don't forget her seeds - they help her control the bushes. She will zone you all days long. It's very hard to win trade against Zyra. Level 2 cheese strategy is the only way to gain advantage.
Credit + Show Spoiler +
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Looks pretty good, I am assuming you already talked with the mods about starting a new Taric thread?
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o.O
If you had told me that someone who had never posted before would not only use his first post for a guide thread, but that it would be good, include a link to the old thread, and have largely impeccable English despite a language barrier, I would have laughed and bet money against it.
Good show walrus. Best poster 2013.
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I don't even know that I need an acceptance from moderators. Thank you anyway, Will add gameplay and matchup later.
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Keep in mind that although each level of Q only gives an extra 40hp of heal, the difference between level 2 imbue and level 1 is 100hp compared to 60hp, almost double. From my experience it is much more helpful for my adc in the early/mid game for my heals to be twice as strong rather than them having 5 extra armor and my shatter's active being a bit stronger. So I always get level 2 imbue when I'm either level 4 or 5 (depending on how hurt my adc is), then max out shatter from there.
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United States37500 Posts
Runes: Split it into marks, seals, glyphs, quints and talk about all the viable ones before assembling them into possible sets.
Skill order: I actually go EW first in the majority of my games. Taric is an aggressive support. Play to your strengths. If you have a terrible AD matchup (Vayne v Cait), that would justify Q second.
Items: I cringe at Philo opening but Shurelya's is pretty core on Taric since he is a glorified stun bot. So I'll let this slide. You should definitely go into more detail about Boots. There are a lot of choices here for him. (3 imo)
Overall, good guide. Great job as your first post. Welcome to TeamLiquid and we all hope you enjoy your stay. ^_^
Cheers walrus.
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I think I can agree that Reverie is a great item to build first on Taric, however I'm unconvinced about Philo before Kindlegem.
Philo's HP regen has been severely nerfed. It takes 142 seconds of regeneration to match the health from Kindlegem. After first back Taric doesn't usually have mana issues. So it's mostly GP10 vs CDR and tankiness, which for a fighting support like Taric I have to favor the latter.
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I'd just like to mention a certain way of playing taric which I stumbled across playing jungle taric late s2 (consistent 14-17 minute trinity forces huehueuhe) and support taric with a certain bad but loveable member of lp who sometimes shows up and plays.
Basically, you get 40% CDR and max Q asap. You often want a glacial shroud here because of how mana intensive tarics Q is. Then you abuse the -3 second CD per auto you have on your Q. (it worked better with tirnity giving AS and sheen proccing when I used Q so much)
Basically your heal has an effective 3-4 second cd and is a massive heal/self heal so oyu just spam it in a fight. Since you typicall have so much hp and armour I often run up the AD carry and start laying down the law and spam healing myself. It usually does so much work because VERY few ads try to ignore a taric in there face with his R aura up and at the same time youre usually the tankiest guy on the team with that heal. If you aren't that fed you can stick with your team and auto hit tanks and spam heal your team. It means you keep your auras and your stun except everything has lower cd. The only disadvantage is you can't get Aegis.
If you want to max W in lane you can and you'll be fine by level 13 but what I've found is that unless you're playing some kind of hard burst lane USUALLY Q works better for trading since you can heal up and in fights you get a 2nd heal off with the -3 cd reduction. W gives 20 more armour at max rank and 200 more damage but 200 damage is nothing when you can spam a 200 x2 heal 3-4 times in 20 seconds.
The build is sightstone, cdr boots, locket, glacial officially. But chalice, or bulwark or spirit visage are options for MR and philo-->shurelyas is another option instead of glacial. (your 6 % from utility cdr means you only need 9% after locket and cdr boots to max it out)
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This is an awesome guide, fantastic first post and great English! I find Taric to be my favourite support lately, I am used to playing top lane so I feel very comfortable as a tanky support. I didn't realize you could capitalize on Taric being able to output that much damage to help out his ADC. Then again, I haven't been playing league for very long and I'm not very knowledgeable. Helped a lot, thank you!
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On January 30 2013 05:54 NeoIllusions wrote: Runes: Split it into marks, seals, glyphs, quints and talk about all the viable ones before assembling them into possible sets.
Skill order: I actually go EW first in the majority of my games. Taric is an aggressive support. Play to your strengths. If you have a terrible AD matchup (Vayne v Cait), that would justify Q second.
Items: I cringe at Philo opening but Shurelya's is pretty core on Taric since he is a glorified stun bot. So I'll let this slide. You should definitely go into more detail about Boots. There are a lot of choices here for him. (3 imo)
Overall, good guide. Great job as your first post. Welcome to TeamLiquid and we all hope you enjoy your stay. ^_^
Cheers walrus. Thank you, I am still completing my guide.
On January 30 2013 06:26 Alzadar wrote: I think I can agree that Reverie is a great item to build first on Taric, however I'm unconvinced about Philo before Kindlegem.
Philo's HP regen has been severely nerfed. It takes 142 seconds of regeneration to match the health from Kindlegem. After first back Taric doesn't usually have mana issues. So it's mostly GP10 vs CDR and tankiness, which for a fighting support like Taric I have to favor the latter. That's why I wrote that I didn't buy Philo all the time. Use it against poke champion such as Sona, but not Blitzcrank. The CDR on Kindlegem is important because it reduces cooldown of W - so your amor will be up sooner.
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Big update!. Edit runes and items sections (thanks to Neoillusions). I have written many thing about lane synergy aswell.
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Tanky DPS Taric:
Taric is one of the most reliable supports in the game and has used to have a tough time in lane against most standard solo champs. However, on Dominion, where everyone tends to get farmed, and even sometimes situationally on Summoner's Rift, Taric can throw off the chains of the oppressive bourgeois carry and deal truly outrageous damage to his enemies. The core items for Taric are Iceborne Gauntlet, Spirit Visage, and Zephyr. This trio does five important things for Taric: 1) Maxes his CDR. With max CDR, Taric can win any 1v1 duel (and I do mean any) due to the combination of stun and heal, or at least prolong it until he runs out of mana. 2) Gives him the mana pool to fight for a reasonable period of time. With too small of a mana pool, Taric runs out of juice long before the enemy runs out of health. 3) Gives him the sticking power he needs to actually finish the job. Despite an incredibly low cooldown stun, Taric simply can't stick to people and continue hurting them without some sort of slow. 4) Gives him Tenacity, allowing him to tank CC for his team and come out still spamming heals. 5) Gives him attack speed, turning his 10 sec heal into a 2 sec heal.
Iceborne Gauntlet can be exchanged for Trinity Force and a CDR item (or speccing runes/masteries for 10%), but it's already hard enough for Taric to get rolling, so it's not recommended. Zephyr, however, can easily be replaced by any attackspeed item and, again, 10% cdr. Good candidates include Wit's End, the new BotRK, or Nashor's Tooth (if you want to swap out IBG, or are ok with overcapping CDR). Playstyle is simple: in one on one fights, stun, heal yourself, and hit things. In teamfights, stun the most important target, heal whoever's in trouble, and hit things.
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Top build I've been trying out:
Start mana regen thing, ward + pots 1: Tear and boots 2: Shroud/ Sheen, 3. Kindlegem
Core is basically IBG/Muramana. Vs AD Tabi/Zephyr/Visage and Randuin's. (Visage last) Vs. AP Mercs/Crucible/Visage, not sure what else. Probably still do Randuin's.
I'd also do Aegis, but I don't know if someone else is buying.
Tabi: less dmg from auto, cool Zephyr: tenacity, more sticking power with IBG, more atkspd = spam heals all day Visage: some hp, cdr, MR and goes with your 2 second heal. Randuin: armro, hp, yay passive.
Mercs; tenacity mr crucible: mana, cleanse/heal, MR and mana sustain visage: some hp, cdr, MR and goes with your 2 second heal.
The idea is to max CDR and get a lot of mana (though the 500 +1000 from IBG + Muramana should be enough). CDR helps Taric because his ultimate is stupid good (70atk/ap is ridiculous), and being able to spam in general is awesome. 1500 bonus mana converts to 60 magic dmg vs champs, and an additional 2% from muramana, resulting in 100 mixed damage. Throw on the muramana proc, and you're doing obscene amounts of damage.
I think hybrid pen is pretty decent on him, but I've been going armor pen because I don't own them.
At this point, he's basically a melee version of Ryze.
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I think Riot did a really good job at this patch. Not only bruiser Taric is fantastic now, but also support Taric makes the game more healthy. No more free tons of armor, sitting dumb in lane, and his burst at level 6 is stronger enough to forget the aura nerf.
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I'm thinking crucible rush on him to compensate for the lower armor. Gives you a nice chunk of mana for your passive, a really handy cleanse, much needed MR and infinite sustain. Pretty cheap too, so it can come out and still give you time to build tanky.
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Nashor's Tooth should probably be gotten right after Tear. Taric uses all stats and it's incredibly cost-efficient, along with giving you nearlymax cdr with IBG(max depending on runes and masteries), those items also have awesome synergy. Those 2 items with Muramana is some crazy dps and also nice healing, so the other slots can be used for more survivability. Runic Bulwark feels quite perfect with these stacking with Taric auras and helping against the mages, with Randuins Omen taking care of AoE disruption and tankyness. Both items give him the HP he needs.
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Lol taric is ridiculous now. Just played top against quinn and 2/0 her. I could just stun, w her and back off till she was low and then flash stun for the kill. I went tear - manamune - shroud - iceborn. Gives a ton of dmg. I had 200 ad with just manamune at 17 mins. And your w does pretty good aoe now
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Oh god I just had a game where me and a really underfarmed 0-4 graves 2v4d the enemies because I kept healing us both and -armoring and stunning and we all were really low, graves went from 0-4 to finish the game at 12-4 after that.
After Taric gets Nashor's tooth + Iceborn Gauntlet + Tear(Manamune) + Kindlegem he's totally insane, absolutely broken. (Don't need kindlegem if you get around 10% cdr from runes or masteries)
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On March 03 2013 00:38 Shikyo wrote: Oh god I just had a game where me and a really underfarmed 0-4 graves 2v4d the enemies because I kept healing us both and -armoring and stunning and we all were really low, graves went from 0-4 to finish the game at 12-4 after that.
After Taric gets Nashor's tooth + Iceborn Gauntlet + Tear(Manamune) + Kindlegem he's totally insane, absolutely broken. (Don't need kindlegem if you get around 10% cdr from runes or masteries)
i expect a kneejerk taric nerf next patch like with tryndamere
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I'm not a fan of Nashor's tooth really. its too much of a pure damage item for him.
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On March 03 2013 09:36 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm not a fan of Nashor's tooth really. its too much of a pure damage item for him. The thing is with his q ap and as are secondary defensive items. the cdr from locket and nashors make it 11 seconds between 84 ap ratio plus 300 heal. Every time he auto attacks a champion that goes down by 3 seconds. This gets very out of hand if they're not cc chaining you you'll be healing a ton for days.
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I think Spirit Visage is core on him. It gives him much needed MR/HP/CDR and the passive that raises the base heal of your rank 5 imbue to 264 and the AP ratio on yourself to 100.8% of your AP. If you auto attack a champion twice with max CDR the CD is 3.6 seconds. I'll guess that riot's going to remove the reduced CD on auto attack since he has such a retarded amount of sustain currently.
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I don't think AP is that good on Taric as he is, and that taking advantage of his passive mana scaling is better. This is kind of the same reasoning I go Crucible over Athene's. His spells have good ratios, but you have to be on top of someone to really use them. I like building Zephyr out of the Stinger-- it gives CDR, Tenacity (which is a must for bruiser), and attack/ movespeed. You get really strong sticking power with it.
Also, it feels better because going Visage/ IBG and Zephyr gives you max CDR. I think those and a Muramana are pretty much core on Taric. SV+ Zephyr just feels much stronger than Nashor's plus whatever other item. You're healing for more, tankier and have even more sticking power. You trade off a little burst for more sustained damage.
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Oh ya, I'm not recommending people stack AP but i'd be willing to argue that muramana+nashors+SV would be stronger then muramana+SV+zephyr, if only because I think that you shouldn't not really aiming to to crazy damage with Taric like you would with Jax or someone. I think he's best picked with a hyper carry and then you just peel/heal for the carry. This places you in the best situation to put your aura over your entire team and gives you a target to constantly autoattack to keep the heals coming.
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Building Nashor + SV in addition to IBG means you go over the CDR cap.
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Sooo I tried Taric top in a couple of normal games and it worked quite well, dunno if I should try it in ranked though because I might get reported for trolling, especially if I fail... I went IBG and SV, but most games ended there, what's the way to go after those 2 items ?
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what is the best recommended runes and masteries for taric top? I guess masteries 9/21/0 or 0/21/9 and mixed mpen/arpen reds, armor yellows, mres per level, mov speed quints?
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On March 03 2013 20:14 Lylat wrote: Sooo I tried Taric top in a couple of normal games and it worked quite well, dunno if I should try it in ranked though because I might get reported for trolling, especially if I fail... I went IBG and SV, but most games ended there, what's the way to go after those 2 items ?
Yeah, best not to play it in ranked until people know more about it. I was playing top Taric vs Olaf and gave first blood. They called me a troll and feeder. We didn't win that game, but I came out ahead in my lane and didn't do too badly during team fights. But yeah, I usually go IBG first, followed by a quick kindlegem for hp and cdr. After that it's whatever seems like the better choice, tabs/mercs, SV, Zephyr. I usually don't get to complete Zephyr though, so what do I build after?
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why play top taric when top nunu performs much better in almost every aspect
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On March 04 2013 11:06 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 20:14 Lylat wrote: Sooo I tried Taric top in a couple of normal games and it worked quite well, dunno if I should try it in ranked though because I might get reported for trolling, especially if I fail... I went IBG and SV, but most games ended there, what's the way to go after those 2 items ? Yeah, best not to play it in ranked until people know more about it. I was playing top Taric vs Olaf and gave first blood. They called me a troll and feeder. We didn't win that game, but I came out ahead in my lane and didn't do too badly during team fights. But yeah, I usually go IBG first, followed by a quick kindlegem for hp and cdr. After that it's whatever seems like the better choice, tabs/mercs, SV, Zephyr. I usually don't get to complete Zephyr though, so what do I build after?
I've been going wits over nashors/zephyr. You are just about capped out for cdr with SV/IBG and the on hit is really nice with your passive.
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I (my team) got absolutely stomped by a Taric that built Seraphs, Liandrys, Zhonyas, Wits End and Lich Bane. His burst was insane, particularly midgame, and he was reasonably difficult to kill throughout the game with his heal, Zhonyas and W.
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On March 04 2013 13:00 101toss wrote: why play top taric when top nunu performs much better in almost every aspect
Taric brings hard CC, the ability to heal other people, and armor, AP, and AD auras. He also does significantly more damage on his own than Nunu (barring a full-channel ult).
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On March 04 2013 13:23 Amarok wrote: I (my team) got absolutely stomped by a Taric that built Seraphs, Liandrys, Zhonyas, Wits End and Lich Bane. His burst was insane, particularly midgame, and he was reasonably difficult to kill throughout the game with his heal, Zhonyas and W.
Sounds like he was super fed though.
Feel like IBG gives really nice damage, I haven't settled on a 6 item build (Can't make up my mind for last item) BUT: - IBG - SV - Wits - Randuins - I don't know. I want a mana item to take further advantage of the passive, was thinking muramana but I want the IBG as fast as possible because it feels really strong in duels vs any AD champ and not sure about an early tear, I could be wrong though, Guinsoos could also be hilariously troll as a last item. I'd probably go banshees vs a heavy AP comp
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Have people tried jungling Taric after the remake? I've done it twice in normal drafts for testing purposes (and first time for laughs), his clear is pretty good and it didn't felt like I needed red nor the full exp so I gave the 1st to the adc which was pretty brutal (in both cases it was to a Cait) and allowed me to focus entirely on mid and top since bot won on it's own.
Thoughts? Too gimmicky/cheesy for being reliable?
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Taric jungle works, for last items id get a muramana
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Jungle Taric is actually the latest FOTM now lol
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On March 04 2013 16:55 schmutttt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 13:23 Amarok wrote: I (my team) got absolutely stomped by a Taric that built Seraphs, Liandrys, Zhonyas, Wits End and Lich Bane. His burst was insane, particularly midgame, and he was reasonably difficult to kill throughout the game with his heal, Zhonyas and W. Sounds like he was super fed though.
He was but he had an incredibly strong early game which I think contributed to that.. The early ap made him incredibly hard to deal with for our top (Ap Nidalee) who kept remarking on the a huge amount of damage he was doing. He got three kills and one death in the laning phase, but he did dc for about 5 minutes mid game so he wasn't overwhelmingly ahead. It was a long game so most of the players had 4-5 full item builds by the end.
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The Taric just AFK farmed while everyone destroyed lane from what I saw... oh, and Westrice was the first to die on his team cuz he got red pot baited.
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just had another Taric top game, this champion is clearly super strong if played correctly and against all the melee bruisers top (so basically every top laner except champs like Elise or Vlad), you cannot be 1v1ed past a certain point and your burst is kinda amazing too, also sneaking an auto here and there during laning phase especially after a W is super cool damage.
My standard build nowadays is: - faerie charm + 3 red pots + 3 blue pots + ward: gives amazing sustain with Q spam and can save you vs early ganks with the ward
-1st buy: upgrade charm with tear (i stack at fountain with w and q) it helps getting an huge manapool so you can spam your abilities much more without going oom and also goes very well with your passive, giving you extra magic damage every auto vs champs, the damage output is quite amazing - if you have money get a chain vest too or buy boots
- 1st item is gonna be soul shroud: more mana, cdr and armor already makes you amazing in lane, you can trade and force enemy bruisers out of lane really soon with this, if you can afford it get a kindlegem too, more health needed at this point (15 minutes more or less) and more cdr
-get frozen fist, sheen proc with your passive outputs an amazing magic damage from autos, more mana and ap again work very well and the slow proc is so cool when you peel for your adc or you need to close distances with their melees or even carries if you get unto them, at this point if you 1v1 their carries you can kill them with w+auto+ult and autos to follow, you can stun them every 6-7 seconds at this point, while you perma-sustain yourself and an ally nearby, it's pretty amazing.
-from the kindlegem i get a spirit visage, at this point you'll have plenty of armor and the mres you get from this will seal the deal vs their ap carries, also upgrades your cdr to 20% making it a flat 30% only from items (frozen fist gets 10% for you) not to mention masteries or runes.
-at this point you can almost build whatever, i like items like aegis -> bulwark gives more defensive stats to you and the team, making you almost impossible to be killed, abyssal scepter for double AP team and also decreases the MR for the enemy team, really good for your AP carry, from tear i get muramana not seraph because the shield, while being nice, doesnt really makes sense because you're already unkillable, if you proc muramana your damage is seriously big instead, which at this point you need in lategame to kill carries that have built some resistances or health.
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On March 07 2013 05:05 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: just had another Taric top game, this champion is clearly super strong if played correctly and against all the melee bruisers top (so basically every top laner except champs like Elise or Vlad), you cannot be 1v1ed past a certain point and your burst is kinda amazing too, also sneaking an auto here and there during laning phase especially after a W is super cool damage.
My standard build nowadays is: - faerie charm + 3 red pots + 3 blue pots + ward: gives amazing sustain with Q spam and can save you vs early ganks with the ward
-1st buy: upgrade charm with tear (i stack at fountain with w and q) it helps getting an huge manapool so you can spam your abilities much more without going oom and also goes very well with your passive, giving you extra magic damage every auto vs champs, the damage output is quite amazing - if you have money get a chain vest too or buy boots
- 1st item is gonna be soul shroud: more mana, cdr and armor already makes you amazing in lane, you can trade and force enemy bruisers out of lane really soon with this, if you can afford it get a kindlegem too, more health needed at this point (15 minutes more or less) and more cdr
-get frozen fist, sheen proc with your passive outputs an amazing magic damage from autos, more mana and ap again work very well and the slow proc is so cool when you peel for your adc or you need to close distances with their melees or even carries if you get unto them, at this point if you 1v1 their carries you can kill them with w+auto+ult and autos to follow, you can stun them every 6-7 seconds at this point, while you perma-sustain yourself and an ally nearby, it's pretty amazing.
-from the kindlegem i get a spirit visage, at this point you'll have plenty of armor and the mres you get from this will seal the deal vs their ap carries, also upgrades your cdr to 20% making it a flat 30% only from items (frozen fist gets 10% for you) not to mention masteries or runes.
-at this point you can almost build whatever, i like items like aegis -> bulwark gives more defensive stats to you and the team, making you almost impossible to be killed, abyssal scepter for double AP team and also decreases the MR for the enemy team, really good for your AP carry, from tear i get muramana not seraph because the shield, while being nice, doesnt really makes sense because you're already unkillable, if you proc muramana your damage is seriously big instead, which at this point you need in lategame to kill carries that have built some resistances or health. Soul Shroud was removed...
That said, your damage with just a Muramana + IBG is actually pretty ridiculous against squishies with the armour pen from W and your ult. Once you have those two items you really just need some health and MR. Possibly some attack speed too.
I'm thinking a final build could look like Muramana, IBG, Tabi's/Merc's, SV/BV/Runic for MR, Mog's/Locket/Randuin's for Health, Zephyr/Nashor's for attack speed to be able to fight lategame. No idea what set of those would work out the best though.
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IBG is incredibly strong on him, I still can't get over the damage he does with just that item.
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I liked wits, it was pretty fun.
Went tear -> wits -> sheen -> sv -> ibg, then ig ot muramana
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Taric nerfs on PBE
Dazzle's ( E ) stun duration changed to 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5 from 1.5 at all ranks.
Shatter ( W ) damage decreased to 50/90/130/170/210 from 60/105/150/195/240.
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Stun nerfs not really needed IMO. If anything they need to drop the CDR on his heal from hitting champs to 2 secs instead of 3 and probably up the cooldown on his ult to a normal 100 or something instead of 60 seconds. It's a stupidly strong spell to have that often as it means you can pretty much spam it in lane to avoid bad situations like being pushed too hard or even just to chunk someone.
I could deal with the stun taking a hit if they amped the damage on the spell to scale a bit better innately (60% to 150% of average spell damage rather than 50% to 100% as it is now)
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Not to mention with full CDR your ult pops in like 40 seconds or something like that, pretty much you can spam it whenever you have it up..
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It's ok, you can always dazzle, because you are fabulous.
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On March 07 2013 19:06 Blurio wrote: Taric nerfs on PBE
Dazzle's ( E ) stun duration changed to 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5 from 1.5 at all ranks.
Shatter ( W ) damage decreased to 50/90/130/170/210 from 60/105/150/195/240. The shatter "nerf" mostly just brings it back to pre-minirework levels in most games, because it now gets 30% total armor as bonus damage (including its own armor) With just the armor from base stats, runes, and shatter's armor bonus, you're getting +25 damage to shatter at level 9 from armor (~80 armor if you have ZERO armor items, and ONLY armor yellows, and no armor masteries. If you have armor reds and +5 armor from mastery, you're actually above the original damage level at all levels) so you really aren't losing much damage on shatter compared to the past. It's just making the buff to his shatter damage require you to actually buy armor items before you really benefit significantly from it.
The stun, well, that's a nerf.
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Not to mention with full CDR your ult pops in like 40 seconds or something like that, pretty much you can spam it whenever you have it up..
36 seconds with 40% CDR. almost as good as a lux ult XD. It's actually what makes his jungle super strong past 6, you can just ult to get super fast buff clears and have it back up so fast you don't even notice. For an ult level AOE nuke it's pretty ridonc.
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I would have liked for the nerfs to take longer, but it's probably justified. It's not even like you can say that he falls off late game, since a point and click stun, team aura, low cd heal, armor reduction and good burst is always going to be useful. Add onto that the fact that he stays alive for so long while still doing pretty decent damage, and you've got a really strong champion.
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They should've nerfed his passive damage or generally his burst, so he can't be this effective in top lane, if their intention is to leave him as support only.. but to be honest, i dont like this "nerf because you should play like this", Riot should not decide how you should play champions, if someone discovers that a support champion works well with certain items in top lane, why nerf it or change it so that you can't play it anymore in that lane?
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On March 08 2013 21:05 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: They should've nerfed his passive damage or generally his burst, so he can't be this effective in top lane, if their intention is to leave him as support only.. but to be honest, i dont like this "nerf because you should play like this", Riot should not decide how you should play champions, if someone discovers that a support champion works well with certain items in top lane, why nerf it or change it so that you can't play it anymore in that lane?
The nerfs are probably hitting his support harder than his top. The stun duration I find is more important bot lane, as ADs usually don't have good cc they can add in. When your jungler comes in top lane, even if the stun is a bit less, you should still be able to get the kill. The W nerf is also going to hurt bot taric more. When I'm playing him at least, I rely more on his autos to do damage, while in support I rely more on his burst and the effects of shatter.
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can I get a jungle taric build guide from someone? I didn't see someone going over one in this thread.
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On March 13 2013 01:32 Sermokala wrote: can I get a jungle taric build guide from someone? I didn't see someone going over one in this thread. got a jungle taric opponent on one of my games. funny thing this guy did alot of dmg using only tank items oO
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I took a look at Taric.
It doesn't seem like he operates without base stats anymore.
He has lots of direct scaling. Passive has mana and AS scaling Q has CDR(more than usual), AS, and AP scaling. With max cdr, his Q has a 3 auto, or 2 auto and 3.6s cooldown. W has armor and AP scaling E has AP scaling R has AP scaling
Since they nerfed his base damage(maybe) and lowered his utility, but gave him more scaling, I feel like the only way to play him above average is to play him as a 4th position or 3rd position champion. He could probably do well against squishy tops or in the jungle. I wouldn't play him in mid without an AP carry champ elsewhere because even if he could lane there, he wouldn't have the maneuverability or range of other AP mids.
He's still a support. All his abilities have something to support allies with, but he's just not a 5th position support. I need to try it out.
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He hasn't actually been changed since they reworked his passive. He was an aggravating top to play against, so he probably still has that capacity.
He did pretty respectable damage with an IBG and a Muramana, and he was a pretty good lane bully. He has shit base AS though, so you don't get to hit people as much as you'd like to.
Edit: Never mind, shatter got nerfed. Read the wiki wrong. Hurt his burst a bit, but not a crazy amount. Losing 40-50 points of damage of off W, but you still have your IBG Muramana damage with your ult to raise your AD.
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I thought I'd be able to constantly heal but I always led with EW and never remembered to Q. I'd need more practice if I'm going to 4th position Taric. Also slow as shit clears means that you still need a spirit item.
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is taric top at all viable I would like to try it out if so.
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I played him top a fair bit after they changed his passive, found he was surprisingly strong in certain matchups but still a very limited champion.
One weakness is his early laning is garbage so I'd advise running 9/21 and a heavily defensive rune setup, once he buys IBG he can literally 1v1 just about any ad bruiser (Jax and Darius probably the exceptions from what I've played against but I beat stuff like xin/riven/j4). Downside to this is he loses out to any AP top really hard. He also suffers from being fairly useless in a teamfight (With a core of IBG/visage/nashors/randuins) because whilst he is surprisingly good 1v1 all you do in a fight is stun and try and run at people to get iceborn procs on them, which won't work versus any form of mobility.
He is a fun pick and people still don't realise his dueling capability with iceborn (Seriously he benefits from the stats on that item more than even ezreal I think), but he is pretty limited in what he does.
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Depending on how well you do, Taric is pretty much always going to have a good spot. Getting Nashors means that you got a point and click stun on a respectable cooldown, and you're getting heals off every few seconds. He even does pretty good damage without building an extra mana item (though ibg is way too good on him to pass up imo).
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So I've been playing Taric jungle a bit in preseason. Was wondering how other people play him. I've been going 0-21-9 with mpen/armour/mreslvl/movespeed runes. Skilling w-e-w-q max w max e. Core build mobility boots + spirit of ancient golem. Then gauntlet if possible (i.e. no fed ap's yet) into spirit visage with sweeping lens as trinket (with mobi boots you just rush past wards while they're disabled).
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When I play jungle Taric I just ask myself why?
It's so hard to gank since you have no gap closers. You have a stun on a 14 second cooldown if maxed but if you just wanted that you could do it with Sion and clear faster. Most of the time you don't max E, so you just have a 1 second stun on a 18 second cooldown. You kind of use a lot of mana if you spam skills on cooldown unless you hog blues or get a grail first which is suboptimal in the jungle.
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Not to mention he uses mana like crazy and his clear is pretty bad.
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I'm 4-0 with jungle taric, I know its not much but my scores average like 7-4-10. I build Golem,Randuins,Gauntlet then MR if needed. Ganks aren't hard because if you do it right one stun is all you need and if the opponenet doesn't die then just come back 7 seconds later and stun him again.
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I have never felt terror like playing One For All, Lee Sin vs Taric.
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Support taric feels really good now, ive been playing him at diamond 2 level right now and with the better gold flow he can be extremely tanky in a short amount of time !
i'm running i think 0/15/15
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go 04/26 or 0/21/9 utility is trash
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yeah im toying with the mastery tree here, i think 4/24/2 will be good for me
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Gonna pick up this dude and leona as support
Also gonna have to agree with heavy defensive tree, bottom of that tree is just too fucking good
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So I was wondering how you ran runes on the new Taric. I feel that the new season has changed a lot in terms of what's good on supports. I have a Magic Pen / Armor / Magic Resist / MS page right now but I am thinking about just going full tank and do something like Scaling Magic Resist / Armor / Magic Resist / Armor page. I feel like armor quints would be really good but I am not as sure on the marks, maybe more armor l0l. I feel like this coupled with a heavy defense tree (I like 4/23/4) would be really good in lane. Run up to them and smack the shit outta whoever is there and basically make his all in stronger. I would love to here your guys thoughts on it.
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I've been running movespeed quints on him just because getting in position is so hard for him. He's weird, in that he really likes slugfests where he can proc his passive over and over, but has absolutely no way to stick to people. I've wound up in the vaguely surreal position of chasing adc's and midlaners around as a support, unable to catch them, but they're scared of me.
He's strange to play after playing Leona: he has no engage (dazzle is not all that great), but is tanky as all hell and trades well. He has no way to actually force an all-in, but is not someone you want to go all-in on.
CDR is amazing on him, since it lets you "get your resets" while you're brawling. I like gauntlet on him, because it synergizes with your passive (cast spell -> smack someone) and helps you stick to people. (It also lets you clear creep waves easier.) Other than that, just build normal tank items: frozen heart if it'll be relevant, spirit visage against AP damage, sunfire, aegis, and so forth.
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I've been running Taric in the jungle with the new Quill Coat. I think he's at more viable in the jungle than as a support. I've been running 0-9-21 masteries on him because I play him more like a roaming support rather than a jungler and just farm one camp between ganks for the Ancient Golem stacks. Taric is strong in early 2v2 when he's not being kited.
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yeah taric jungle is a great pick against primarily AD teams, but the only issue is, he is no better than rammus, and depending on your team comp you may not be able to actually get a teamfight. i'd rather go malphite
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Rammus gets shut down against poke/kite comps while Taric still provides his team armor and heals. Taric is also a much better duelist (against AD) than he gets credit. Taric is so well rounded with a high skill floor that he fits into any team comp that doesn't require full on Malphite level initiation.
I will admit that I haven't played against an Elise jungle yet and I'd imagine she would win that duel easy.
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what kinda runes do you guys run? I tried it with as red armor yellow mr/l blue ms quints and it was soooooo slow, and i took hella damage too
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Flat armor reds and yellows, MR per level blues, MS quints. Tanky junglers no longer want attack speed since machete no longer provides an on-hit heal so the armor keeps your health high.
I'm also using 0-9-21 because Taric wants to roam and gank often so the extra move speed and assist gold synergies well with that play style. Only farm 1 camp between ganks to keep ancient golem stacks from maxing out.
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On July 04 2014 03:16 Ghost-z wrote: Flat armor reds and yellows, MR per level blues, MS quints. Tanky junglers no longer want attack speed since machete no longer provides an on-hit heal so the armor keeps your health high.
I'm also using 0-9-21 because Taric wants to roam and gank often so the extra move speed and assist gold synergies well with that play style. Only farm 1 camp between ganks to keep ancient golem stacks from maxing out. i went 9-21-0 but i took soooo much damage it was unreal
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21 utility lets you start with 5 pots instead of 4 if you get the gold mastery. After the first clear his Q plus Quill coat keeps his HP topped without needing as many pots.
Are you skilling W first then E second? I've been using W>auto>E>auto on the 2nd camp which brings down the cooldown on your W by 2 seconds. Remember Taric's stun deals double damage when in melee range.
Order: WEQWWR ==> R>W>Q>E
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Which items do you usually get on taric afterwards? I would love to play some taric jungle
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Ancient Golem, Mercs, and then depending on your needs I build towards IBG and Locket. I prefer IBG over FH because of the extra CC you get with the slow field after a stun. Locket is a great item for Taric because you complete you 'niche' as a walking buff for your allies during fights (AD,AP,Arm,MR and a Shield) so just stand in the middle of your team and peel/shred enemy armor.
Ancient Golem, IBG and Locket give you 30% CDR, and Taric wants to build Armor and CDR. Frozen Heart is really good if you don't need the slow field and will also cap you at 40%. Since I get 5% CDR from 21 utility I usually go for IBG. Spirit Visage is also really good on Taric (super self heals) if you want some selfish MR.
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I don't really see why the new sotag is a good reason to pick up taric jungle again?
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On July 04 2014 06:37 Complete wrote: I don't really see why the new sotag is a good reason to pick up taric jungle again? I guess you get a decent amount of free armor so some extra hp is pretty good
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yeah ghost has the right idea, i still think rammus serves a similar purpose and is better in the role mostly because tarics ult is pretty terrible.
either way though taric jungle is some of the most fun i've had in normals and it's by no means bad.
and to "complete" it gives him some armor and will increase his clear speed once he gets that thorn item since that was a big flaw of his so it synergizes very very well with him, then SotAG will give him more HP which means he can focus more on resistances which are his strengths while still being tankier than normal.
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I don't really think that logic works. "He'll get more HP so he can concentrate on resistances"...but SOTAG gives less HP, and will only give more HP if you build more HP...and considering taric likes items like FH and IBG...
also is there confirmation on the new damage passive increasing clear speed on champs like taric/sejuani/etc?
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I don't know about the clear speed since taric doens't clear fast to begin with but it definitely keeps his health and mana higher.
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Why is Taric so bad ? What happened? the nerf hammer was too big on him or what? I played him several days ago (as support) and I couldnt even understand what does he do, meaningful i mean. I stun them i go there shatter the armor, heal someone and actually nothing happens. Stun is short, useful only in some situations, heal is bad, damage is low, low mobility, low everything...Is there even a theoretical case where Taric does smth good, game deciding, crushing an opponent, anything at all that is above averagely just being there?
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On July 07 2014 21:07 M2 wrote: Why is Taric so bad ? What happened? the nerf hammer was too big on him or what? I played him several days ago (as support) and I couldnt even understand what does he do, meaningful i mean. I stun them i go there shatter the armor, heal someone and actually nothing happens. Stun is short, useful only in some situations, heal is bad, damage is low, low mobility, low everything...Is there even a theoretical case where Taric does smth good, game deciding, crushing an opponent, anything at all that is above averagely just being there?
in pure AD comps, OR if he can like get 2 kills he's pretty much impossible to stop, outside of that he just doesn't have enough utility or hard engage to deal with most supports now
he basically ends up being sion support for the laning phase which isn't a compliment
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Have I been playing Taric all wrong by not maxing E first?
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On September 06 2014 01:18 Ghost-z wrote: Have I been playing Taric all wrong by not maxing E first?
You can't play Taric period, he's completely useless. Weak heal, weak stun, weak damage, weak ult. He gets outclassed by everything. And, he's point and click, which makes that even worse.
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On September 06 2014 01:24 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 01:18 Ghost-z wrote: Have I been playing Taric all wrong by not maxing E first? You can't play Taric period, he's completely useless. Weak heal, weak stun, weak damage, weak ult. He gets outclassed by everything. And, he's point and click, which makes that even worse. That's not the question I asked.....
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On September 06 2014 01:37 Ghost-z wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 01:24 Uldridge wrote:On September 06 2014 01:18 Ghost-z wrote: Have I been playing Taric all wrong by not maxing E first? You can't play Taric period, he's completely useless. Weak heal, weak stun, weak damage, weak ult. He gets outclassed by everything. And, he's point and click, which makes that even worse. That's not the question I asked.....
I know, but if you're asking this question, you also have to specify: if you're playing him top, jungle, support; which matchup you're playing. I mean, it CAN differ on how you play him. Anyway, I just wanted to vent my frustration on how I see him in his current state I guess, I'm sorry about that. Still, maxing e depends on matchup, howmuch you need the 1,5 stun and howmuch you need to "sustain" or "deal damage"
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Uldrige is right Taric is utterly useless right now. Just outclassed in a hundred ways.
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Still fun the occasional time where the enemy team picks 2 ad laners+an ad jungle. He becomes unkillable and provides great armor+peel.
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There's no way that maxing Q over E can be good on Taric. The whole point of Taric is to be really tanky, get max CDR and then just stun people constantly because of your passive.
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If every time you stun you auto W auto and have 40% CDR, the amount of time between stuns is doubled (5.6 vs 2.8).
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If you're going sightstone > FotM > frozen heart then I think it's reasonable to say that you'll be level 13-14, which is exactly when you'll max your second ability. Hitting level 18 as a support to max your third ability, however, is pretty uncommon. Over my last ~15 support games it looks like I've hit level 17 twice, but didn't hit level 18 in any game.
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I've played a ton of taric when he was broken and always maxed W->E->Q. Your job is to stand in the middle with 10000000 armor and to spam your spells as much as possible with CDR+autos. Taric does impressive damage that way and peels well. Spamming point&click stuns is much more interesting than spamming shity heals.
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I usually go W > E > Q or if I am losing, Q -> E -> W.
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On September 07 2014 03:48 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 02:12 Sufficiency wrote: I usually go W > E > Q or if I am losing, Q -> E -> W. You should always max W first even when losing. W is just too good. E's base numbers are just too low to warrant maxing it over anything else.
E gives better CD as you rank up.
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it also is stun duration now, it's a big part of why he stopped being played, E needs levels to be good.
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There are high elo Taric players...?
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Well the stun duration seems important enough to me, I just don't think taric's role is to heal. I sometimes put a second point in Q but that's it.
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I did check Probuilds, but there are 5 games over the past 5 months, one of which was a Taric top game.
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On September 07 2014 18:27 GolemMadness wrote: There are high elo Taric players...?
I'm legitmately salty over the fact that this is a comment that you can't rebuke with a serious comment of "oh, tons of high level players play taric!". He's such a bad pick when compared to any other support at the moment
And as for the discussion on what to max second, the stun is nice to max quickly, because on top of the increased duration and cooldown reduction, it also increases in damage, moreso than W does. People overstate W's damage right now, mostly as a byproduct of the way it worked before with AP ratios and your ult. It does at max rank 200 damage, as opposed to E's 320 at melee range (where you would typically use W).
The armor provided by his aura increases by a whopping 5 per rank. So it's not a huge deal. On top of this, you don't even get the benefit of having CDR by ranking it up, something you get with Q and E.
It just seems more beneficial overall to have those two skills maxed asap, with the way his kit works now. Having longer stuns on shorter CD, which allows you to spam your passive more, which allows you to recharge your other skills/ult faster, seems more effective.
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On September 08 2014 12:01 krndandaman wrote: High elo players that play taric, yes, dunno about high elo taric mains. Just check probuilds if you're curious.
.1 duration is important enough over 80 total heal? You're trading 80 HP for .1 seconds of stun. Stunning someone for .1 longer will more often than not be worth trading 80 more HP. Yes his role is not a healer, but you don't max E for a similar reason as for why Leona doesn't max Q until last. The base values per rank is just not worth it compared to their other skills.
Try Q max second out and come back and tell me how it is. You'll probably see/feel a difference. I've played E max second for a while until switching to Q max second once someone pointed out to me the difference in base values and I've never looked back since.
I max Q second on Leona...
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On September 09 2014 09:38 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 08:57 miicah wrote:On September 08 2014 12:01 krndandaman wrote: High elo players that play taric, yes, dunno about high elo taric mains. Just check probuilds if you're curious.
.1 duration is important enough over 80 total heal? You're trading 80 HP for .1 seconds of stun. Stunning someone for .1 longer will more often than not be worth trading 80 more HP. Yes his role is not a healer, but you don't max E for a similar reason as for why Leona doesn't max Q until last. The base values per rank is just not worth it compared to their other skills.
Try Q max second out and come back and tell me how it is. You'll probably see/feel a difference. I've played E max second for a while until switching to Q max second once someone pointed out to me the difference in base values and I've never looked back since. I max Q second on Leona... You shouldn't though :/
Krepo maxes Q second. Many people mix Q/E.
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The only reason I can see for maxing E 2nd would be the magic dmg increase, but a max level Q with a fair bit of CDR seems more useful in a teamfight than max level E.
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Speaking about support Taric theory:
Is W really what should be maxed first? That's the part that almost feels wrong to me right now. It used to rank up your allies armor with each rank but now that's just a passive 12%.
For each skill point:
Q gets 40+40 Healing (56 self-heal) & -1 CDR.
E gets 30-60 Damage, +.1 stun & -1 CDR.
W gets 40 damage & -5 Armor shred. (The self armor buff is lost while on cool down and lets be real Taric is spaming this thing in fights and most poke damage is magic)
If your goal is to peel the first enemy who jumps on your carry you get the most damage and peel from a melee range Max E and the most healing from a Max Q. The only reason to Max W is if you value the extra 20 armor shred that only lasts 4 seconds.
Out of these choices: (240 damage + .4 stun) or (160 Heal) or (+20 armorPen for 4s) which one would you be willing to go without?
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.4 stun duration is a big deal when your ultimate goal is to walk into melee range, and THEN cast a spell to get the maximum utility out of your hero, none of the arguments against E max have changed my opinion on the matter.
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On September 10 2014 04:23 Ghost-z wrote: Speaking about support Taric theory:
Is W really what should be maxed first? That's the part that almost feels wrong to me right now. It used to rank up your allies armor with each rank but now that's just a passive 12%.
For each skill point:
Q gets 40+40 Healing (56 self-heal) & -1 CDR.
E gets 30-60 Damage, +.1 stun & -1 CDR.
W gets 40 damage & -5 Armor shred. (The self armor buff is lost while on cool down and lets be real Taric is spaming this thing in fights and most poke damage is magic)
If your goal is to peel the first enemy who jumps on your carry you get the most damage and peel from a melee range Max E and the most healing from a Max Q. The only reason to Max W is if you value the extra 20 armor shred that only lasts 4 seconds.
Out of these choices: (240 damage + .4 stun) or (160 Heal) or (+20 armorPen for 4s) which one would you be willing to go without?
As far as I'm concerned, I typically choose which skill to max based on lane flow. So if I end up versus a comp that can zone me forever, I'll max Q, then W. The aura itself gives only 5 bonus armor per rank, and the scaling doesn't change. Otherwise, if I think I'm going to have the opportunity to dive or be aggressive, I'll max W because it does increase my ADC's contribution to the fight. Q makes sense as a second ability in general, just because of how high it's values are.
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Taric's W passive does NOT scale with levels (changed many patches ago). Only his personal armor does but you lose that bonus when it's on cool down. Basically what I'm trying is max Q then E. My theory is that your only losing out on the armor shred but the Heal is probably better in lane. And if they focus you because you don't have that extra 20 armor then you just Heal yourself and should win the fight since the self-heal will be huge. W just looks like a 1 point wonder when you compare it to the damage and CC increase on his stun.
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On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen.
Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen.
At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this.
Consider me hopping on board the max E train.
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I've always maxed R>W>Q>E but I was trying to find a reason why that might not be optimal. Sometimes to find out if you're doing the right thing you just have to try to prove yourself wrong.
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On September 12 2014 21:04 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen. Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen. At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this. Consider me hopping on board the max E train. You become an unkillable tank that gives sweet auras later on.
Is it not enough to just go even in lane and outscale?
*edit* also i don't think taric's kill potential is very high unless the enemy willingly eats autos. maybe he'd be great for punishing bad all-in attempts or something
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On September 14 2014 06:07 scrubtastic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 21:04 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 12 2014 00:07 krndandaman wrote: hit 2 people with it and thats total 50 armor pen. Hit 5 people and that's 125 armor pen. At some point it's less useful to penetrate multiple enemy's armor when you're focusing your attacks on only one of them. I think Q max is great if you're not trying to win your lane, as the healing only just extends your lanability but doesn't actually help you kill them, but I'd argue it's in Taric's best interest to represent kill potential as early on as possible, and it's my belief that E maxing does this. Consider me hopping on board the max E train. You become an unkillable tank that gives sweet auras later on. Is it not enough to just go even in lane and outscale? *edit* also i don't think taric's kill potential is very high unless the enemy willingly eats autos. maybe he'd be great for punishing bad all-in attempts or something Tarics kill potential is incredibly high rofl. Not as high as it used to be but still very threatening. All this most likely depending on the enemy support though, in most cases a squishy support getting hit with a stun + shatter + radiance + the ads autos/spells is certain death
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Rofl, so funny to see the not knowing people to bash on this guy. He's still a good support, your ignorance is bliss, I'm enjoying my Taric-free time on bot lane, so as long as you keep spreading utter bs like he's outclassed and whatnot, I'm happy.
And I guess Taric players would agree, because look what happened with Janna once she was found out; her ap ratios are bound to be hit after worlds', and I pray to god for NJS not winning the whole thing because it's gonna be S3 struggling all over again for me. Though bootcamper western teams are practicing her too, and Nyph has always liked Janna so... yeah, fuck me!
So yeah, Taric is shit, Braum does everything better, don't play him; he's also ugly and his sexual orientation is questionable. Nothing to see here, Close the thread, please.
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If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game
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On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game
I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness.
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On September 17 2014 12:04 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness.
That is what I play Alistar for. Although he does have room for flashy plays
What are the strongest taric bot lanes atm?
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Taric Urgot is hellah scary.
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On September 17 2014 19:34 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2014 12:04 Sufficiency wrote:On September 17 2014 11:21 Bam Lee wrote: If taric wasnt that boring to play his power level could be assessed much better. The way it is nobody fcking plays him and i wouldnt as well. Hes so boring to play compared to all the other supports lol He would need to be overpowered as fuck again for people to actually touch him with thresh/braum/leona in the game I actually think this is why Taric is fun. There is no flashy mechanics or fishing skillshots - it all comes down to good decision making and map awareness. That is what I play Alistar for. Although he does have room for flashy plays What are the strongest taric bot lanes atm? I'd just about bet Taric Graves would be good still, Taric Jinx/Taric Draven too most likely.
anything that can benefit from his W/has big burst is 99% of the time going to be good with Taric
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I run CaiTaric and TrisTaric. Max Q first, then W, focus on Support items while stacking mad armor for the aura. Mana pots early are also key with Taric, I tend to go 4 mana pots at the start and often buy as many as 5 more throughout the game.
Targons --> Sightstone --> Frozen Heart --> Tabi Boots --> Heart of the Mountain --> Randuins --> Locket/Thornmail/etc.
OP
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