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On June 20 2013 07:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 07:19 Kenpark wrote:On June 20 2013 07:06 Shikyo wrote:
Pretty sure Diana actually is the one who counters Akali -- Diana needs mana. Oh I see, so every single mana champion loses to every single non-mana champion. This is some flawless logic. Let's rewrite our countermatchup charts. Just FYI, Akali can do W -> Q -> E -> OUT OF ENERGY. She cannot use E at all due to energy. It limits her far more than mana limits Diana. She barely even has mana costs.
When the fuck are you using W ever in lane LOL
I mean that's like assuming that Diana starts every trade by blowing E
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On June 20 2013 08:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
The later the game goes the higher her burst potential is on you and her burst potential is not limited by having to land a skillshot. The last time I played vs an Akali as Diana mid was against a diamond and he completely annihilated me post-6. You're not "trading" against a good Akali even pre-6. She's getting one q and one auto then backing out while you spend mana on W, only half of which absorbs the burst damage. She has innate spellvamp and you don't. She has a resource which doesn't need sustain and you don't. She doesn't have to build d-rings and you do. Her burst at level 6 is comparable to yours except it's not reliant on landing a skillshot to do half of it.
Perhaps the issue is that I'm really bad with Diana? I mean I'm only platinum but I think I know how to play her decently. Akali will snowball really hard if she gets ahead even by a little.
This part. Your early levels definitely favor Diana, no question. But eventually akali will hit that level where you can't really stop her farm or sustain and it gets much trickier. You cannot burst her down and trades start becoming in her favor once her R stacks accrue. Her items also curves her power much steeper than Diana's and she snowballs much easier than Diana.
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What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible 
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she has some seriously good laning. 1-5 just last hit with q and just decide if you want to hit the entire wave with it or not, depending on how much they shove. if the other laner is passive or bad you can shove yourself, back for a dring and just take wraiths on every spawn. past 6 you kill pretty much anything 1v1.
out of the ones you mentioned, I can imagine only darius being a truly hard lane. lee sin I haven't played against but I guess it's dependent on how good the player is (much like any LS matchup). imo, you have the advantage of a) following him with r if he tries to escape and b) your q going through creeps while his doesn't so you can get some free-ish harass in (if he's good he'll just w away of course but like I said, it's skill-dependent). ziggs just dies past 6, you can outtrade khazix if you get a passive in, too
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On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote:What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or...?
Diana is seriously one of the best/safest laners in the game. You could probably count the number of really disadvantaged lanes for her on one hand. In most lanes she can at least go even. In a lot of lanes she can just bully people once she hits 6. She can trade with a ton of top laners pre-6 too because her shield and passive are so damn good and even if you can't trade it's no big deal because you have a ranged AoE spell that you can use to farm if you get chunked down.
Also, Drings price reduction is an indirect buff to her laning imoimo.
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On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote:What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
If you are talking about who Diana directly counters, I'd say Katarina and Akali.
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On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote:What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
I don't know about new Kha but old Kha, Diana had advantage. (New Kha, you lose if you take isolation Q's so watch your positioning during trades). Darius dumps on you and I suspect Lee advantages him but not significantly. Ziggs shouldn't beat you in lane unless you take way too much poke.
The mids I find annoying are Yi and Mordekaiser.
Ryze is also up there mostly because of his ability to give junglers ganks.
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On June 23 2013 06:34 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote:What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible I don't know about new Kha but old Kha, Diana had advantage. (New Kha, you lose if you take isolation Q's so watch your positioning during trades). Darius dumps on you and I suspect Lee advantages him but not significantly. Ziggs shouldn't beat you in lane unless you take way too much poke. The mids I find annoying are Yi and Mordekaiser. Ryze is also up there mostly because of his ability to give junglers ganks.
I think Jayce is pretty good against her too tbh.
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On June 23 2013 05:29 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote:What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible If you are talking about who Diana directly counters, I'd say Katarina and Akali.
My experience directly contradicts this, what is the strategy in lane against Akali that prevents her from winning at 6?
Seriously we've talked for a page about the matchup and in that whole time all you've done is say "diana is a hardcounter to akali" with no justification or evidence.
What league are you/how often do you play the matchup/why do you think that?
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This is what a really high-rated akali has to say about the matchup from 5 days ago:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2b0KDJ2.png)
I didn't play the matchup before the nerf because I wasn't a Diana player before the nerf but it really feels like she got hit hard. If you miss Q you die post-6 because Akali can just all-in you with charges and blow through your shield. Obviously whoever gets better ganks will win but I don't think "snowballs either way" is the same as "Diana hardcounters Akali".
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On June 23 2013 12:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:This is what a really high-rated akali has to say about the matchup from 5 days ago: I didn't play the matchup before the nerf because I wasn't a Diana player before the nerf but it really feels like she got hit hard. If you miss Q you die post-6 because Akali can just all-in you with charges and blow through your shield. Obviously whoever gets better ganks will win but I don't think "snowballs either way" is the same as "Diana hardcounters Akali".
Perhaps I underestimated the Diana nerfs.
If Diana does not counter Akali in lane, then there is something wrong with Diana.
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What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all?
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On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote:
What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all?
Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will.
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On August 06 2013 01:59 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote:
What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all? Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will.
Well, did he ever jungle her in the LCS pre-nerf?
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On August 06 2013 02:01 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 01:59 Gahlo wrote:On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote:
What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all? Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will. Well, did he ever jungle her in the LCS pre-nerf?
IDK, but one time when I was watching him stream he asked the viewers which one to play. Of course he got a bunch of stuff like Teemo and whatnot. When he said no to Diana, he explained her disfavor.
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In my limited and bad experience jungle Diana suffers from lack of pre-6 gank presence and then when teamfights you're an ok damage threat but you also can't tank a lot of damage. I had trouble figuring out what my role was in the games I played (either getting blown up initiating without zhonya's or waiting to dive in and not being able to burst people in time for it to be important with how the teamfight plays out.)
Mid I've been grabbing a sheen after a ring and boots if I'm doing well (have a kill or so) but in no way I'm I advocating it as optimal but I like it 
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Basically, between the post-release Diana nerfs and the changes to the jungle meta, jungle Diana just isn't viable. She's not a complete joke, but she's way down the list in terms of competitiveness.
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What are your toughts on attack speed reds on mid diana?
I feel she definetly need some as for her combo to be alot smoother, but nashor tooth give "too much" of it imo.
do you think the natural as growth is enought for her? is the penetration not worth sacrificing? maybe a mix of the 2?
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depends on what you want to do, even before the nerf to her passive, building Nashor's was never about damaging champions, it got the job done, but it was build for pushing down towers quickly either to punish roaming or to split push. In a Duel attack speed is just inferior to pen for damage.
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Has anyone else tried out jungle Diana with the new Spirit of the Spectral Wraith passives? It seems like a pretty solid pick up on her, and I have had some success with it. Getting that, Sorc boots then some defensive stats (Abyssal/Zhonyas) feels pretty strong.
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EPT
