This is a short guide for Diana. This will be shorter and less in detail than my Ryze guide, since I haven't played her nearly as much. I picked her up as an ap mid champion and most of what I cover here will be for playing her mid. She can jungle of course, so I will address what I know about jungling her, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with that.
Why play Diana? She is a tanky bursty assassin with aoe cc and the best /joke in League of Legends. She can give your team a way of initiating and is great at setting up combos with other aoe ultimates. She scales and snowballs nicely and bursts hard.
Her passive grants her basically another spell in a combo. It scales very well with levels and it scales with ap too. You can see when this procs by the glow on her sword and by her animations. It also resets when you don't auto attack for 3.5 seconds.
Active: Diana unleashes a bolt of lunar energy, dealing magic damage in an arc. Crescent Strike afflicts enemies struck with Moonlight, revealing them for 3 seconds.
This is your farming, harassment and dps all-purpose spell. It is a quite straight forward ability, apart from the fact that it curves (did I really just write that?). Get used to the speed and area it hits, because it's key to be able to land this spell.
Active: Diana creates three orbiting spheres that last up to 4 seconds and detonate on contact, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies. She also gains a temporary shield that absorbs damage. This shield is refreshed if all three spheres detonate.
This is what makes Diana surprisingly tanky. Ideally you want to get hit a bit before all orbs explode to make the most use out of the shield refresh.
Active: Diana draws in all nearby enemies and slows them for 2 seconds.
Your main utility spell which allows your team to set up other aoe spells really well in teamfights. The drawing enemies in has a short delay after activation.
Active: Diana becomes the living embodiment of the vengeful moon, teleporting to an enemy and dealing magic damage. Lunar Rush has no cooldown when used to teleport to an enemy afflicted with Moonlight, and will consume all active Moonlight debuffs.
Gap-closer and damage spell that can have 6 second cooldown at level 9 when hitting every Q. You can't always get the reset, sometimes it's preferable to just use it twice or use it on a target to initiate or to escape to a minion.
3. Skill Order and Useage
R>Q>W>E Lane
WQW(E)->R>Q>W>E Jungle
Q is your main damage/farming spell and sets up your combo with R. Furthermore, with static mana cost and a cooldown reduction per rank this just screams max me. W will give you more tankiness and damage, which is why it's maxed second. Take it at level 1 and a second point at level 3 in the jungle, in order to stay healthier while clearing. E is mainly a utility spell and while it scales well with levels, the pull in at the highest rank is still the same and with 18 seconds cooldown at rank 5 you will probably still just use it once in a fight. So max E last.
In lane, use your Q for farming and harassment, try to avoid using shield too much to save mana. When you have your ultimate, you will probably be looking to hit your opponent with Q in order to be able to follow up. You can then either ult twice or ult once and try to hit another Q while chasing them, depending on how hard you can burst your opponent. Diana has no escapes, so be sure you know you are safe when you jump your opponent.
Q also gives you vision of your target and you should make use of that. It's great for checking brushes (some curved ones easier than others), farming wraiths or escaping in the jungle.
When ganking, try to bait out escapes first before following with R and then using E to pull them back. Diana is terrible at ganking pre-6, so if you jungle you shouldn't really bother with that too much.
4. Summoners
+ or
Flash best summoner, allows you to escape/disengage.
Ignite is the best for bursting your target down, I can't think of a summoner I'd rather have on Diana except for maybe exhaust. Teleport could be useful for a fringe case where your team wants to make use of it. Smite replaces it when jungling.
21/9/0 or 21/0/9 is a toss up really and you should judge which one you want depending on the match-up in mid. For jungle I'd shuffle some points around to make the clear smoother.
6. Runes
Marks - Magic pen or Attack speed
Magic pen marks offer you the best increase in damage you can get in this slot, so take them. In the jungle you can take attack speed to help your clear, but you can jungle without them. Magic pen is much better when fighting champions.
Seals - Armor, Mana regen, Health/level
When jungling most certainly take armor in this slot. Armor is a great choice for lane too, since it will help you deal with auto attack harass much better. Mana regen seals are a good alternative and can make up for the lost armor by providing more mana for shields. Health/level is viable, but on champions like Diana with a shield and high base health, resistances are preferred.
Glyphs - Flat/scaling magic resist, Flat AP
Against most champs that get played mid you want the flat mr in this slot, no contest there. When jungling you can go for flat AP or scaling magic resist. Flat AP will help your clear, but leave you in need of MR later in the game.
Quints - AP, Health Regen, Movement speed
Flat AP quints are pretty good on any ap champ and I recommend them for Diana too. They give Diana better farming, better jungle clear, stronger harassment/burst and a stronger shield. Health regen is best against lanes with strong harassment in lane and help you survive the laning phase. I'd suggest them vs cassio or swain for example. Movement speed quints are a viable alternative, movement speed is always a good stat to have. With a 900 range gap closer, getting close to a champion is often not an issue though, so they aren't crucial to Diana.
7. Build
+3*
Start with boots and 3 pots for both jungle and lane. The movement speed too good.
You don't necessarily need Dorans rings for Diana, but they are nice to have.
Season 3 came along and as it looks, DFG is core on her again.
or
I generally prefer Sorc shoes on her, but you are gonna be in melee and you are gonna get hit with cc, sometimes merc treads are the better choice.
Abyssal is great on Diana. With her shield and high base health, you want to get resistances. Furthermore the better part of her damage will be applied in melee range anyway, so the short aura range doesn't hurt her much.
Zhonyas has an amazing active which will help Diana survive when diving in and stall for cooldowns. I prefer having this over Deathcap usually.
Guardian Angel is great on anyone who dives into the enemies and anyone who can reposition quickly after getting up. This is an especially important item when you are the biggest threat on your team.
When you are in no fear of dying yourself, this with DFG will help you burst everything and everyone. It's expensive, but provides a lot of damage via ap.
Void Staff is a lategame item you get against high amounts of MR. Usually your Abyssal+Sorcs (and maybe Haunting Guise) should take care of the MR of most squishies.
Pretty much the same build I like to use when I go AP mid as Diana.
Boots + 3 > kages is always the way to start. Then it really depends how you're feeling against the enemy mid. Usually I do prefer to get DFG asap just for the added burst, but sometimes I like to grab Negatron into Abyssal after I get Kage's just because the magic resist + aura is extremely helpful, especially if you're going for some early team fights around dragon etc etc.
So, DFG & Abyssal should always be your first/second items. I feel hourglass should always be your 3rd. This gives you great MR from Abyssal and also great Armor from Hourglass, plus having the 2 sec invulnerability is priceless when team fights start and all your spells are on CD. Best thing to do is Q someone, R & DFG, W, E & Zhonyas. You'll then hopefully have a couple enemies stacked ontop of you due to your E, after zhonya's finishes your Q should be just coming off CD which then let's you Q someone away from the team fight to run away or it then just allows you to Q > R > R and hopefully finish somebody off.
I'm wondering what some thoughts are on Lich bane. All the stats are great for her and honestly you auto attack quite a bit with her so the Lich Bane proc would come in handy (not to mention the MR and movement speed). My only problem is I don't ever see a great time to build it on her because as I said I prefer sorcs > dfg > abyssal > hourglass > deathcap. I suppose you could build lich bane as your final 6th item but at that point you'd probably be better with a void staff for the magic pen. I suppose maybe going Lich Bane inplace of Abyssal could work out. I might have to mess around with that.
On October 12 2012 09:00 Praetorial wrote: Just wondering, what motivates the Exhaust pick over Ignite?
is it because Diana needs to stick to her target for the AP scaling auto?
That I took the wrong picture. Fixing it :D
On October 12 2012 08:53 SidianTheBard wrote: I'm wondering what some thoughts are on Lich bane. All the stats are great for her and honestly you auto attack quite a bit with her so the Lich Bane proc would come in handy (not to mention the MR and movement speed). My only problem is I don't ever see a great time to build it on her because as I said I prefer sorcs > dfg > abyssal > hourglass > deathcap. I suppose you could build lich bane as your final 6th item but at that point you'd probably be better with a void staff for the magic pen. I suppose maybe going Lich Bane inplace of Abyssal could work out. I might have to mess around with that.
Lichbanes problem is that it is very expensive and the proc is physical damage and before you have a lot of ap, the proc isn't even better than just the sheen proc. It's alright, but you gain more from other items.
How would you guys go about building Diana top? Obviously I'm looking at some sort of AP bruiserish play style, and because of that the more glass cannon midlane style doesn't seem so great. That combined with the DFG nerf makes me wonder what I should be getting instead.
Doran's on jungle Diana are good and reccomended by me. The manaregen is a necessary sustain since philostone isn't a good item on her (with her shield you shouldn't really need HP5 and you want to build AP) and it speeds up jungle significantly. I'd reccomend flat AP blues for jungle though. The increased clear speed is imo very worth it. You will be hurting for Mres in the midgame, but at least you will have more AP AND exp to show for it.
For jungle, I like Havoc more than Attack Speed. A lot of damage comes from your abilities, so the 1.5% damage increase that multiplies everything should be more than the 3% attack speed that will actually be about 2.6% autoattack damage increase and lvl1 and decrease with every level.
On October 26 2012 09:40 Scip wrote: Doran's on jungle Diana are good and reccomended by me. The manaregen is a necessary sustain since philostone isn't a good item on her (with her shield you shouldn't really need HP5 and you want to build AP) and it speeds up jungle significantly. I'd reccomend flat AP blues for jungle though. The increased clear speed is imo very worth it. You will be hurting for Mres in the midgame, but at least you will have more AP AND exp to show for it.
For jungle, I like Havoc more than Attack Speed. A lot of damage comes from your abilities, so the 1.5% damage increase that multiplies everything should be more than the 3% attack speed that will actually be about 2.6% autoattack damage increase and lvl1 and decrease with every level.
Alright. For jungling Dorans are probably required. But currently there really isn't much point in jungling with her. Her ganks pre-6 pretty much requires a Flash initiation.
Alright, I made some changes to the OP, working in scips suggestions for jungle and addressing items a bit.
Dorans are pretty good on her imo. I usually only get one though, which I feel gives enough stats to still make it worth it. After the DFG nerf, I need to figure out a new build too. I don't play LoL much currently though.
On October 26 2012 09:40 Scip wrote: Doran's on jungle Diana are good and reccomended by me. The manaregen is a necessary sustain since philostone isn't a good item on her (with her shield you shouldn't really need HP5 and you want to build AP) and it speeds up jungle significantly. I'd reccomend flat AP blues for jungle though. The increased clear speed is imo very worth it. You will be hurting for Mres in the midgame, but at least you will have more AP AND exp to show for it.
For jungle, I like Havoc more than Attack Speed. A lot of damage comes from your abilities, so the 1.5% damage increase that multiplies everything should be more than the 3% attack speed that will actually be about 2.6% autoattack damage increase and lvl1 and decrease with every level.
Alright. For jungling Dorans are probably required. But currently there really isn't much point in jungling with her. Her ganks pre-6 pretty much requires a Flash initiation.
thats like saying lee sin is not good in jungle because you cannot initiate with q in most cases but have to walk up for e. diana jungle seems to be very strong. Its just that her build is awkward because she can't go for a heavy ap build out of the jungle and cdr/tank items are not that great on her in comparison to junglers like skarner, amumu or maokai.
Indeed, the main problems I had with her were midgame and lategame. She jungles ridiculously fast and safely early game, and even faster once she gets her ultimate, but large amount of CC and tankiness are kind of expected from junglers at this point in time. I could see it working if you have some tanky middle lanes maybe like Malphite, or maybe Galio ? if he is still viable. She really needs someone to initiate teamfights for her diving-style.
Okay so I have been spamming a bunch of Diana games and I am now 12-4 and she brought me up to 1700 ELO for the first time.
I tend to go sorcs first unless I back with enough to straight up buy Guise, some games I skip Guise and when I do its generally lanes where I am having a tougher time where I will get a single dorans instead and go for an abyssal after sorcs. I like Both Zhonyas and Dcap after abyssal, if you are the main focus Zhonyas is helpful for your shield cooldown to come back up and if your super ahead or not the main focus DCap is obviously a great choice. I haven't once build DFG nor am I finding a reason to.
The Mpen builds provide enough burst against the squishy targets you are facing. If I were to ever finish a build it would be with GA and Void Staff.
Diana still feels super strong, she has really high burst and building her correctly gives her enough survivability and burst. I believe this is that build. She is a great stomper for solo que and great for more coordination due to her E and massive AoE on Q and the shield explosion. She also works in poke comps with her Q. Overall she is just very solid at practically everything so I would expect a few subtle nerfs sometime in the future if she catches on. If she doesnt catch on then abuse her IMO.
On a side note I use Kassadin to counter Diana. His silence totally shuts down her combo and he can match her dashing around. Diana also cant shut him down early so he can get his farm on.
Yeah, since the DFG nerf I don't care to go for it anymore and I do agree with the Sorc > Abyssal > Hourglass build. Usually I don't go Guise on her unless I can full buy it on my first time back, but even then I'd almost rather just grab a Blasting Ward or Negatron cloak just so I get that Abyssal so much earlier. It's usually a toss up though. If it's a more burst heavy mid I'd rather get abyssal asap, if not then Guise works well imo.
If I had to pick a counter for her I'd say Mordekaiser. He can shut her down pretty hard early. He can also farm better as well since he doesn't have to worry about mana. Although, it really depends on the enemy jungler though. I never Morde if they have a Maokai for instance because Diana + Maokai = Nope. Not getting away from that unless flash is up.
On October 27 2012 14:27 SidianTheBard wrote: Yeah, since the DFG nerf I don't care to go for it anymore and I do agree with the Sorc > Abyssal > Hourglass build. Usually I don't go Guise on her unless I can full buy it on my first time back, but even then I'd almost rather just grab a Blasting Ward or Negatron cloak just so I get that Abyssal so much earlier. It's usually a toss up though. If it's a more burst heavy mid I'd rather get abyssal asap, if not then Guise works well imo.
If I had to pick a counter for her I'd say Mordekaiser. He can shut her down pretty hard early. He can also farm better as well since he doesn't have to worry about mana. Although, it really depends on the enemy jungler though. I never Morde if they have a Maokai for instance because Diana + Maokai = Nope. Not getting away from that unless flash is up.
Morde is kind of boned this patch due to DFG nerf though... kind of hard to say if it will still be favourable for Mordekaiser.
On October 27 2012 14:27 SidianTheBard wrote: Yeah, since the DFG nerf I don't care to go for it anymore and I do agree with the Sorc > Abyssal > Hourglass build. Usually I don't go Guise on her unless I can full buy it on my first time back, but even then I'd almost rather just grab a Blasting Ward or Negatron cloak just so I get that Abyssal so much earlier. It's usually a toss up though. If it's a more burst heavy mid I'd rather get abyssal asap, if not then Guise works well imo.
If I had to pick a counter for her I'd say Mordekaiser. He can shut her down pretty hard early. He can also farm better as well since he doesn't have to worry about mana. Although, it really depends on the enemy jungler though. I never Morde if they have a Maokai for instance because Diana + Maokai = Nope. Not getting away from that unless flash is up.
If you have enough for guise straight up its way better than a blasting wand. Take your sorcs and guise bot lane and get a double kill. You will deal true damage. This is best in safer mid lanes. Diana is incredible at assisting ganks, she does so much damage and the pull back is really powerful. Guise is great if you intend to gank and roam a lot, you get it much faster than abyssal so you don't need as much farm which if you are roaming and ganking you will be missing some.
I skip Guise in tougher mid lanes and if I expect to gank less, abyssal is better if the first fight is one for dragon. The aura is stronger in those situations.
I disagree on morde being a counter, she assists ganks like crazy. He does not. And everyone ganks morde.
On October 27 2012 14:41 Navi wrote: anivia, vlad, bruisers tend to be good vs diana in terms of lane matchup all lanes become playable with a blue buff and or jungle support
I agree Anivia and some bruisers are good versus her. But why Vlad?
I have laned this twice and demolished him. I gave up an early kill because im a moron in one of the lanes and still destroyed him early. This was a lane I went Sorcs - Guise in because I was behind so I wanted to all in as fast as possible.
In my experience Vlad cannot match her burst at all early enough. As Diana I was just QRW auto till pool R ignite. His damage early wasn't nearly enough to match mine and I was able to tower dive him at level 7.
I understand you play at a much higher level than I do, so can you please explain how this is the case. I do not understand and I want to be able to play it right.
diana has no threat on vlad pre 6 vlad outsustain and can match her farm post 6 if vlad can juke qs (know when to walk forward instead of back or which side the blade curves) it is straightforward to punish her in lane or force her to buy large amounts of pots to maintain lane he has a better time escaping ganks than her, although she has more cc to assist ganks, so that is fairly even but the sustain and ability to farm midlane if that's your goal (late game vlad is stronger on the whole) is enough for me to call this a win for vlad in scaling and ability to lane
i.e. this is one of the lanes where vlad just chips away at you while farming up solidly, if the vlad just tries to head on engage (heck if most mages try to head on engage diana) he will lose ofc
On October 28 2012 02:57 Navi wrote: diana has no threat on vlad pre 6 vlad outsustain and can match her farm post 6 if vlad can juke qs (know when to walk forward instead of back or which side the blade curves) it is straightforward to punish her in lane or force her to buy large amounts of pots to maintain lane he has a better time escaping ganks than her, although she has more cc to assist ganks, so that is fairly even but the sustain and ability to farm midlane if that's your goal (late game vlad is stronger on the whole) is enough for me to call this a win for vlad in scaling and ability to lane
i.e. this is one of the lanes where vlad just chips away at you while farming up solidly, if the vlad just tries to head on engage (heck if most mages try to head on engage diana) he will lose ofc
So the lane is reliant on Vlad juking her Q?
I feel like in early team fights Diana does more than Vlad and can more easily be the deciding factor.
However I can see how if they are aiming for late then Vlad can be stronger if all things equal, but in solo que all things being equal and aiming for late are risky assumptions
Every time I think about the Vlad vs Diana match up I think of the game Tiensi laned Diana vs Navi's Vlad. I also played this match up twice as Diana myself.
It's a terrible match up for Diana. Diana can't punish Vlad's weak early game because her pre-6 is also very bad; after 6 Vlad wins simply by attrition - barring AP ratio, Vlad's Q basically does the same damage as Diana's Q, except Vlad's Q also heals and has lower CD.
I think Diana can beat swain with jungle help. She has the type of kit Swain hates post 6. Multiple gap closers with high burst. As long as Diana gets help early Swain can't stand up to her. But pre 6 Swain shits on her with EQ and autos so it is really jungler dependent.
On October 28 2012 03:58 Bladeorade wrote: I think Diana can beat swain with jungle help. She has the type of kit Swain hates post 6. Multiple gap closers with high burst. As long as Diana gets help early Swain can't stand up to her. But pre 6 Swain shits on her with EQ and autos so it is really jungler dependent.
Any match up is winnable with jungle support; without it it's just a nightmare.
Pre-6 is a total nightmare for Diana. After 6 it's not that much better, because poking him doesn't do much (he will sustain back) and Diana can't all-in him because she will die.
On October 28 2012 03:58 Bladeorade wrote: I think Diana can beat swain with jungle help. She has the type of kit Swain hates post 6. Multiple gap closers with high burst. As long as Diana gets help early Swain can't stand up to her. But pre 6 Swain shits on her with EQ and autos so it is really jungler dependent.
Any match up is winnable with jungle support; without it it's just a nightmare.
Pre-6 is a total nightmare for Diana. After 6 it's not that much better, because poking him doesn't do much (he will sustain back) and Diana can't all-in him because she will die.
Poking does do much, and Diana can wave clear far more easily than Swain. Also I disagree she CAN all in him fairly easily without dying. She does such high burst his healing is almost moot combined with ignite.
ive been going support diana for the past few days now. it is absolutely jokes. triple gp10/haunting guise/abyssal/warmogs/zhonya. 0/16/14 masteries focusing on mana regen and armor/mr/dmg reduction. its so sick to make plays by diving in first, pulling everyone towards you and dive back out. kd ratio mostly on the positive (not including assists)
So I really like the triple Pen Zhonyas GA DCap build on Diana and feel like it is the best build on her.
Boots 3 start and farm as long as you can, if you have to go back early pick up ruby crystal first for Haunting Guise. After Guise I generally get Sorcs and then Abyssal. After I have Sorcs and Guise I aim for a gank bottom and depending on the CC on my bot laners (Leona/Sona = Double Kill) can generally get 1 or 2 kills and a dragon. I go Negatron first for Abyssal. After Abyssal I start just pushing wave and roaming taking their jungle and warding while keeping ganks up bot lane.
Because of her ults lack of cooldown you can just constantly push and gank like Kat but with more damage pre resets and with an OP CC. After Abyssal I get Chain Vest unless I am way ahead in which case I will go NLR first and the finish Zhonyas. At this point you should be pressuring Baron hopefully bot tower is already down because you camped the shit out of them. After Zhonyas I get GA at which point you are very tanky and still able to do a ton of damage. If the game goes long enough I follow up with Deathcap.
edit to add some things:
The reason another part of the reason I really like this build is you really hit your mid game HARD. Squishies don't have MRES yet so you deal true damage, and even if they buy a negatron you have 70 mpen/reduc combined so its likely still true damage. Between Guise and Abyssal and Chain Vest you gain a lot of EHP. You get a good amount of resists and her base HP is very high combined with her shield which also scales from resists. This allows you to be deceptively tanky and in my opinion is simply a necessity. You are the AP carry on your team and you are melee. If you aren't building somewhat tanky you are dead or so far ahead you 1 shot everyone.
As another note when your GA is down I like getting Rylais and if you get to the point where you sold your GA after it procced for a Rylais you should also consider selling Guise for Void Staff but that is super late game.
On November 14 2012 00:41 Bladeorade wrote: Cant remember the AP's name from Azubu Blaze but apparently in the IPL5 Korean Qualifier Grand Finals he goes sorcs 2 dorans Zhonyas Abyssal GA
I wish I could talk to him and see why he goes 2 dorans over HG xD I really think HG is stronger than 2 dorans
I don't actually think pros always go for the best build.
On November 14 2012 00:41 Bladeorade wrote: Cant remember the AP's name from Azubu Blaze but apparently in the IPL5 Korean Qualifier Grand Finals he goes sorcs 2 dorans Zhonyas Abyssal GA
I wish I could talk to him and see why he goes 2 dorans over HG xD I really think HG is stronger than 2 dorans
I don't actually think pros always go for the best build.
The pros probably have a better understanding of what the best build is. Also, a best build in Pro levels could be different from the best build in different elo levels.
HG is more expensive. The 500g is most of the way towards a chain vest. Most Diana players in pro games need to be able to dive and still live against a burst, so Zhonya/Abyssal are very important.
Has anyone else tried blue mana runes on Diana? This is what RapidStar does and I asked around and apparently the amount of damage reduced by the shield is roughly equal to the damage reduction MR runes. The boosted mana helps her out significantly more then the slight MR bonus because of her fairly low mana pool/low cost spells and she already has scaling MR. It's an interesting idea and I'd really like peoples thoughts on it. I've run it for a few games and it seems to work fairly well. This was also using 9/12/9 masteries to help reduce the amount of early game punishment she takes from being melee.
I wish I could talk to him and see why he goes 2 dorans over HG xD I really think HG is stronger than 2 dorans
Here's my crappy logic about two dorans being better:
For one, the cost is significantly less for roughly the same amount of stats 1485g vs 950g for an early game item that you're going to have to sell later on because it doesn't build into anything and is just overall a "meh" item. The mana regen also is a tremendous help to Diana in lane/roaming, especially considering her spells cost relatively low mana compared to most mids like Orianna and Morgana. The penetration will help you overall do a little more damage early on, but ~500g is a lot of gold that could go to something else. Her base damage is also significant enough to not even need the extra mpen.
On October 28 2012 03:58 Bladeorade wrote: I think Diana can beat swain with jungle help. She has the type of kit Swain hates post 6. Multiple gap closers with high burst. As long as Diana gets help early Swain can't stand up to her. But pre 6 Swain shits on her with EQ and autos so it is really jungler dependent.
Any match up is winnable with jungle support; without it it's just a nightmare.
Pre-6 is a total nightmare for Diana. After 6 it's not that much better, because poking him doesn't do much (he will sustain back) and Diana can't all-in him because she will die.
Poking does do much, and Diana can wave clear far more easily than Swain. Also I disagree she CAN all in him fairly easily without dying. She does such high burst his healing is almost moot combined with ignite.
The entire laning phase swain is going to be harassing you with E/Q and auto attacks, unless you come back to lane and immediately all in you're not going to be going in with full hp, and he's gonna kill you when you eat a full q snare e and ignite + bird power + auto attacks.
i think diana vs swain without serious jungle help is unwinnable tbh
xPeke doing the build im advocating for on Katarina vs TPA. Guise/Sorcs into Abyssal Zhonyas
I understand Kat doesn't use mana so the mp5 is useless on her so Drings make no sense but it's nice to see it being used in a pro match even if not on the champion I use it on HUE
Honestly, I don't understand why people insist on going mid with Diana. I have far more success going jungle with her. As soon as you take your E you can set up some really nice ganks. And if I have to buy a GP/5 item it's usually Philo Stone. Abyssal and Frozen Heart are both great on her. I'm a big fan of catalyst -> RoA on her because ganking when you are about to level makes the passive very worth it, shame they are nerfing the HP portion, again.
On December 02 2012 02:34 NEOtheONE wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why people insist on going mid with Diana. I have far more success going jungle with her. As soon as you take your E you can set up some really nice ganks. And if I have to buy a GP/5 item it's usually Philo Stone. Abyssal and Frozen Heart are both great on her. I'm a big fan of catalyst -> RoA on her because ganking when you are about to level makes the passive very worth it, shame they are nerfing the HP portion, again.
Diana is definitely stronger in lane, you should try playing her mid more before making conclusions. Her E is strong for ganks, but imagine if you pair it with a jungler with CC like Maokai, Cho'Gath, or Amumu? It's the perfect setup tool. Also I'd advise against RoA on Diana, since AP (somewhat) translates to HP for her because of her shield, you want to build resists to maximize her EHP.
diana has so many bad matchups mid. I have been playing malz recently alot and I don't see anything diana can do vs that champ for example. Same goes for swain, akali, morgana and prolly a few others as well. There are tons of champions right now who either just straight up deal more damage, are too tanky to get 1 shot or just have the utility/poke to make her laneing a nightmare. She has also good matchups but I allways shiver a bit when someone firstpicks diana. you don't pick kat/kassadin etc for the same reason in soloq. Those kind of champs need serious support from the jungle or make a huge play at some early skirmish if they are in a hard lane or they wont be relevant during mid/lategame. Diana is a super risky pick and should be treated as such. If someone is an experienced mid and diana player he can still carry games which goes without saying. But in a more general sense I think she is picked that often because people just have fun playing her and not because of her carrying power and lane presence.
The other problem with jungle Diana is that she doesn't gank well until she hits level 6. Yeah, E is pretty good, but junglers really need a dash to maximize their effectiveness.
As for lane Diana, I feel like she is a pretty strong mid in general. If she lands her Q on the enemy champ fairly consistently, I think she can hang in there with most mids. CC-heavy champs will fuck her up, though. She just has to survive until she hits 6 and builds some MR. Once she gets to that point, she's golden. Her roaming ganks are brutal.
On December 02 2012 03:36 clickrush wrote: diana has so many bad matchups mid. I have been playing malz recently alot and I don't see anything diana can do vs that champ for example. Same goes for swain, akali, morgana and prolly a few others as well. There are tons of champions right now who either just straight up deal more damage, are too tanky to get 1 shot or just have the utility/poke to make her laneing a nightmare. She has also good matchups but I allways shiver a bit when someone firstpicks diana. you don't pick kat/kassadin etc for the same reason in soloq. Those kind of champs need serious support from the jungle or make a huge play at some early skirmish if they are in a hard lane or they wont be relevant during mid/lategame. Diana is a super risky pick and should be treated as such. If someone is an experienced mid and diana player he can still carry games which goes without saying. But in a more general sense I think she is picked that often because people just have fun playing her and not because of her carrying power and lane presence.
Akali and Morgana don't win lane against Diana. Neither can Malzahar because he will instantly die unless he has ultimate (but even with it he can't kill Diana in one combo).
I think the best lane counter against Diana right now are Swain, Vladimir, and Ryze. Karthus is also an option if you are willing to tax your other lanes and just farm.
On December 02 2012 02:34 NEOtheONE wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why people insist on going mid with Diana. I have far more success going jungle with her. As soon as you take your E you can set up some really nice ganks. And if I have to buy a GP/5 item it's usually Philo Stone. Abyssal and Frozen Heart are both great on her. I'm a big fan of catalyst -> RoA on her because ganking when you are about to level makes the passive very worth it, shame they are nerfing the HP portion, again.
Because she needs a lot of farm and the jungle doesn't have enough. I also have success jungling Diana but it takes longer to get going unless you get a lot of ganks off.
Also why would you get Philo? She doesnt have mana problems and shurelyas is crap on her. I go Kages into Sorcs into Guise. Start working on Abyssal but sometimes I just go Negatron -> Chain Vest for more tankiness.
RoA is crap on her. She doesnt need health or mana and it costs so much for so little gain. She needs resists and AP which is why Abyssal and Zhonyas are considered her core.
On December 02 2012 03:36 clickrush wrote: diana has so many bad matchups mid. I have been playing malz recently alot and I don't see anything diana can do vs that champ for example. Same goes for swain, akali, morgana and prolly a few others as well. There are tons of champions right now who either just straight up deal more damage, are too tanky to get 1 shot or just have the utility/poke to make her laneing a nightmare. She has also good matchups but I allways shiver a bit when someone firstpicks diana. you don't pick kat/kassadin etc for the same reason in soloq. Those kind of champs need serious support from the jungle or make a huge play at some early skirmish if they are in a hard lane or they wont be relevant during mid/lategame. Diana is a super risky pick and should be treated as such. If someone is an experienced mid and diana player he can still carry games which goes without saying. But in a more general sense I think she is picked that often because people just have fun playing her and not because of her carrying power and lane presence.
Malzahar can't do anything even when he hits 6. Diana harasses with Q and then can decide to all in. QWRER with ignite ticking will kill him and the Malz will likely try to ult you right away which will cancel with your E even if his ults starts. I have done this a bunch of times, seems very infuriating for a Malz player.
Swain is strong against her but he isn't mobile and cant push hard enough to punish her. Diana roams and wins game.
Diana Q reveals units so... Akali is not a great pick. Not sure how Akali would counter her but I haven't had to play this matchup much so I don't want to say anything for certain.
Morgana is laughable. You push harder than her, she can't punish you pre 6 unless you can't dodge Q's, and once you hit 6 just push and roam. You will be way ahead of Morg. Sure you can fuck up if you try to 1v1 Morg because of her ult, so just don't.
Vlad does okay but he has to be able to carry if your roaming and he is farming, Swain picks after I pick Diana I usually just switch to jungling or I play passive until jungler comes to gank since he is so easy to gank and Diana has high damage.
To be honest I play Kassadin as my counter pick to Diana. He fucks her up so hard. He gets free farm, early levels his W is stronger than her passive and his Q destroys her ability to trade while he can just dash away, or into her. He just has so many options against her and a Kass with free farm does very well, his issue is just getting the farm. He is also just as good at supporting ganks as Diana while being harder to gank than her.
Never faced Ryze, In theory that sounds like a good matchup for him until 6. But I can't see him dealing with her after 6 and he cannot push well at all.
Can someone clarify Lunar Rush for me? I just watched a game in which a friend of mine used Lunar Rush and Crescent Strike at the same time. The dash brought him to the target first and then Q hit, refreshing the cooldown. I could've sworn the target has to already be affected with the debuff for R to reset?
Or is this a bug that many a Diana player has been able to take advantage of.....
Diana's R has a grace period (I would say around 0.1-0.2 seconds), different from (say) LeBlanc's Q and Cassiopeia's E. You can land your R slightly before Q lands and still get a reset.
On December 02 2012 07:57 Bladeorade wrote: Her Q doesn't reveal O_o
Well then. I must have just had vision from Akali attacking. It always seemed like it revealed.
Currently there are only 6 champions that can reveal stealth units such that they can be targeted by autoattacks/targeted spells. Caitlyn (W and R), Lee Sin (Q and E), Nidalee (W), Lulu (E), Twisted Fate (R), and Rengar (R).
On December 02 2012 05:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Can someone clarify Lunar Rush for me? I just watched a game in which a friend of mine used Lunar Rush and Crescent Strike at the same time. The dash brought him to the target first and then Q hit, refreshing the cooldown. I could've sworn the target has to already be affected with the debuff for R to reset?
Or is this a bug that many a Diana player has been able to take advantage of.....
It's not a bug. As long as Q does damage before R does damage Diana's R will reset. The issue is that Diana's Q does damage immediately upon impact whereas her R has a tiny delay between Diana dashing to the target and R actually dealing damage. This makes it so if you cast Q+R at the same time your Q will hit before R damages your target.
So, I don't usually get mid so I haven't had much time to tinker around in S3. When have people found to be a good time to upgrade guise? Right away? After Abyssal/Zhonya?
On December 02 2012 07:57 Bladeorade wrote: Her Q doesn't reveal O_o
Well then. I must have just had vision from Akali attacking. It always seemed like it revealed.
Currently there are only 6 champions that can reveal stealth units such that they can be targeted by autoattacks/targeted spells. Caitlyn (W and R), Lee Sin (Q and E), Nidalee (W), Lulu (E), Twisted Fate (R), and Rengar (R).
On December 10 2012 01:38 Gahlo wrote: So, I don't usually get mid so I haven't had much time to tinker around in S3. When have people found to be a good time to upgrade guise? Right away? After Abyssal/Zhonya?
I don't finish it until after those two, like a late game last upgrade. I find getting the active from zhonya's and the MR Reduction /resistance from Abyssal is more important than Liandry's passive.
You dont build the AP SS item on Diana. I run 9/12/9 masteries an AP quints and blues, AS Marks and armor yellows.
Start with shield do wolves then blue, best in jungle if you dont have someone mid that needs blue so you can QR to creeps after 6 saves a lot of time. Spend a good amount of time farming early unless some lanes really push hard. I level WQWE but taking E at 3 if you see an opening can be a good idea, be flexible.
Generally you want to lead ganks with QR but its okay to R in if you just need ot lane E to guarentee a kill. Before 6 your ganks consist of walking next to your opponent and pressing E. Its good if you can get close enough.
I start machete +5 but I generally dont build machete into anything. I prefer going Sorcs -> Guise and then from their get a negatron or chain vest depending and rush either abyssal or zhonyas. You clear jungling incredibly fast so always clear never not clear, don't try and force ganks just farm and gank if nothing is up unless you see a huge opening.
Hopefully some laners let you feed off their farm but a lot of people in solo que are queer about that so just mute them and do it anyway. You really want a build of like Abyssal, Zhonyas, Sorcs/Mercs, GA, DCap, Liandrys. Liandrys being built last as it isnt that great on her unless you end up getting into a lot of poking situations in which case Diana has good poke with Q so Liandrys before Dcap can work.
I have been messing around with IBG and its cool but idk if its great.
On December 02 2012 07:57 Bladeorade wrote: Her Q doesn't reveal O_o
Well then. I must have just had vision from Akali attacking. It always seemed like it revealed.
Currently there are only 6 champions that can reveal stealth units such that they can be targeted by autoattacks/targeted spells. Caitlyn (W and R), Lee Sin (Q and E), Nidalee (W), Lulu (E), Twisted Fate (R), and Rengar (R).
Of those champions, only Lee Sin and TF have an on demand stealth detection. Which is why most people say that Lee is a counter to Akali. TF probably falls under the category of squishies without escapes that can easily feed an Akali.
Generally when I lane against Akali, it's in top, and I get vision wards. It's not cost efficient to have to trade like that since it's 6 creeps wasted every time but it's better than dying or constantly getting pushed out of lane and losing tower.
Been thinking about, if they don't get too much MR, picking up Rylais and finishing Liandry lategame. You'd only be 200hp down if you went Mogs/Void, but you'd have +70 AP, Liandry Damage, and the utility from the slow. Might allow you to pick up some of those QRs that you used to be able to make before the nerfs because of the slow.
Really liking Rylais and Liandrys as well. Health always nice, and the slow and burn are pretty good to have. Just need to get used to dealing with her laning (mostly ap melee trouble in general).
Finally wondered what mid champ I should just mash games with to help rank up in Solo Q and it finally hit me to get Diana. Holy shit has it been working wonders.
Really feel like such a lane bully. Almost like an AP ver. of Riven. Been going typically: 2 DRings-> Guise -> Abyssal -> Zhonryas. Can't really think of a better build atm, but will be willing to know what people have been building on her atm. She still feels sooooooooooooooooooooooo strong (specifically in unorganized solo q soooooooo).
So does anyone have a solid build for Nashor's Diana yet? After watching KiWiKiD rock it in the LCS, I'd love to try it, especially if it makes her a moderately viable top (I suck at mid)
Keep in mind that Diana is specifically good against Akali, and Zionspartan arguably botched the matchup hard (that Cutlass rush still confuses me).
That said, it looked like the progression was Nashor's -> 2 * DRing -> Rylai's, the thought process likely being that you need semi-tankiness after Nashor's so you can live longer to auto-attack more.
On March 01 2013 00:39 Seuss wrote: Keep in mind that Diana is specifically good against Akali, and Zionspartan arguably botched the matchup hard (that Cutlass rush still confuses me).
That said, it looked like the progression was Nashor's -> 2 * DRing -> Rylai's, the thought process likely being that you need semi-tankiness after Nashor's so you can live longer to auto-attack more.
Fair enough. Do you think there's any viability in it overall or is it a very specific counter?
On March 01 2013 00:57 Seuss wrote: It's probably viable, but it's a new enough concept that you're not likely to find many resources to help you figure out matchups and builds.
Voyboy's been streaming quite a bit of Diana top as well.
Not sure on his masteries but I know he runs AP/hybrid pen/flat armor/flar MR quint/red/yellow/blues.
General build is Chalice or Seeker's (depending on opponent) into Nashor's tooth > boots 2 (tabi/merc or spellpen if you're snowballing) He usually gets quite a few mana pots as well, even if he builds chalice. After laning your build should really depends on your/enemy team comp. Personally I like Liandry's/Void/Zhonya's/Nashor's/GA/boots. Lategame you can swap out the Nashor's for Athene's.
In LCS, we've seen Nashor's built in two different orders (stinger first and codex first) and we've seen many different followup items (Zhonya's)
Kiwi went 2x Doran (I don't really think you need chalice for Diana's mana, and the AP helps her shield too.) Stinger into Nashor's Rylais
Scarra went Zhonya post-nash instead of Rylai.
You can honestly be quite flexible.
As far as 14/9/7 goes, I don't really think you need the 5 points in Armor pen for *masteries* - by the time armor gets high enough that 8% ArPen is adding much, you're going to be so heavily magic damage that a few extra points of physical damage won't be missed, not when it costs *5* mastery points which could be invested in defense (Block!) or something else useful (different offense masteries?)
On March 01 2013 01:58 sylverfyre wrote: In LCS, we've seen Nashor's built in two different orders (stinger first and codex first) and we've seen many different followup items (Zhonya's)
Kiwi went 2x Doran (I don't really think you need chalice for Diana's mana, and the AP helps her shield too.) Stinger into Nashor's Rylais
Scarra went Zhonya post-nash instead of Rylai.
You can honestly be quite flexible.
As far as 14/9/7 goes, I don't really think you need the 5 points in Armor pen for *masteries* - by the time armor gets high enough that 8% ArPen is adding much, you're going to be so heavily magic damage that a few extra points of physical damage won't be missed, not when it costs *5* mastery points which could be invested in defense (Block!) or something else useful (different offense masteries?)
On March 01 2013 01:58 sylverfyre wrote: In LCS, we've seen Nashor's built in two different orders (stinger first and codex first) and we've seen many different followup items (Zhonya's)
Kiwi went 2x Doran (I don't really think you need chalice for Diana's mana, and the AP helps her shield too.) Stinger into Nashor's Rylais
Scarra went Zhonya post-nash instead of Rylai.
You can honestly be quite flexible.
As far as 14/9/7 goes, I don't really think you need the 5 points in Armor pen for *masteries* - by the time armor gets high enough that 8% ArPen is adding much, you're going to be so heavily magic damage that a few extra points of physical damage won't be missed, not when it costs *5* mastery points which could be invested in defense (Block!) or something else useful (different offense masteries?)
On March 01 2013 05:42 JSH wrote: Hmm I should experiment more I've been going double doran deathcap on like all my mid characters lol
Never even thought of getting atkspd on Diana haha
You don't have to go Nashor's but you really shouldn't dcap rush on Diana. Abyssal is going to give you nearly the same amount of damage as dcap because of the MR shred while also making you tanky (and you generally have to build Diana tanky AP or you'll just instantly die in fights).
The new armguard is also insanely good on her against AD opponents. Armguard into nashors is actually pretty strong because that passive actually hits like a truck with some AP and it's such a smooth build. Tbh it's mostly beneficial for top diana.
On March 01 2013 01:58 sylverfyre wrote: In LCS, we've seen Nashor's built in two different orders (stinger first and codex first) and we've seen many different followup items (Zhonya's)
Kiwi went 2x Doran (I don't really think you need chalice for Diana's mana, and the AP helps her shield too.) Stinger into Nashor's Rylais
Scarra went Zhonya post-nash instead of Rylai.
You can honestly be quite flexible.
As far as 14/9/7 goes, I don't really think you need the 5 points in Armor pen for *masteries* - by the time armor gets high enough that 8% ArPen is adding much, you're going to be so heavily magic damage that a few extra points of physical damage won't be missed, not when it costs *5* mastery points which could be invested in defense (Block!) or something else useful (different offense masteries?)
I think Nashor's is good on Diana if you are not expected to get kited hardcore and you can stick to your target. I've played with that build since S2.
On March 01 2013 01:58 sylverfyre wrote: In LCS, we've seen Nashor's built in two different orders (stinger first and codex first) and we've seen many different followup items (Zhonya's)
Kiwi went 2x Doran (I don't really think you need chalice for Diana's mana, and the AP helps her shield too.) Stinger into Nashor's Rylais
Scarra went Zhonya post-nash instead of Rylai.
You can honestly be quite flexible.
As far as 14/9/7 goes, I don't really think you need the 5 points in Armor pen for *masteries* - by the time armor gets high enough that 8% ArPen is adding much, you're going to be so heavily magic damage that a few extra points of physical damage won't be missed, not when it costs *5* mastery points which could be invested in defense (Block!) or something else useful (different offense masteries?)
I'd run 21/9/0 maybe against heavy burst AP mids like Annie or Veigar or Leblanc. Other than that Diana can definitely use the mana masteries more. Defense doesn't get amazing until you get block to be honest.
I have been really liking a build I saw xpeke use in the LCS (forget which game). It is for mid-Diana and went something like flask -> 2 drings -> boots -> sheen -> boots 2 -> Lich Bane. When you get that Lich Bane your full combo burst is pretty insane.
just picked up diana, after a recent decision to try out midlane. I've been having some success with assassins, but with diana, man, I just seem to carry every game I play. feels good. I've been trying going chalice->grail first as my MR item instead of abyssal, since at my embarrassing elo, junglers basically never give up blue, even if they don't use mana. it's a 10 AP, 5 MR drop off, but i think the cdr and mana regen are worth it.
On March 06 2013 07:06 YouGotNothin wrote: I have been really liking a build I saw xpeke use in the LCS (forget which game). It is for mid-Diana and went something like flask -> 2 drings -> boots -> sheen -> boots 2 -> Lich Bane. When you get that Lich Bane your full combo burst is pretty insane.
Something to think about - Lichbane isnt particularly good until you start to get a significant amount of AP. Sitting on a sheen in building your next AP item first (probably Deathcap) provides better damage. This means that you need to value the movement speed fairly highly to make picking lichbane first a good idea. Movespeed is great, but Diana has great gap closing and a slow/displacement so it may be a good idea to explore some other options.
So, after following the math out that was supposed to support my above opinion, turns out lichbane first is better in damage at both of the critical points in build paths. I'd seen the math for the old lichbane, which dealt physical damage and didn't have a base amount.
So, doing that was an interesting experience for me, because I've totally discovered that Lichbane first is significantly more legit than what it used to be (pre S3) due to magical compared to physical, better cost effiency towards damage and the base magical damage added to the proc so it doesn't need such a heavy amount of AP to break even with sheen.
Conclusion: more damage, movement speed and a sneaky amount of extra damage going lichbane -> NLR compared to sheen -> deathcap. Fantastic. Lichbane for life?
assuming level 12, Diana has 81 damage, which is the amount that sheen will add to her auto attack. Lets say Caitlyn is who you're diving. Her Armour (assuming she is also level 12, although she is probably lower) will be 51.5 base + 13 from runes (flat armour yellows) totaling 64.5. Her magic resist will be 30 + 12 from runes (flat MR) totaling 42. The gold difference between Sheen and Lichbane is 1740, so you can realisticly have a Needlessly Large Rod and sheen, where you would otherwise have Lichbane. NLR is 80AP, 2 Doran's is another 30, and sheen offers you 25AP and 200 mana. With NLR + Sheen, you have 25 more AP, but 50 less mana and 5% less movement speed.
Runes: Assuming flat AP quints, MPen reds (This favours lichbane the most) Masteries: Assuming blast (+18AP at 18), Arcane knowledge (8% pen), mental force (+6AP) and archmage (+5% AP)
total: AP: ((4.95*3) + 12 + 6) * 1.05 = 34.5
Assuming max Q and 2 ranks in R at level 12, and that you just Q -> R auto:
Lichbane: total AP * 1.25 + 50: ((34.5 + ((30 + 80)*1.05))*0.75 + 50) * (100 / (100 + ((30*0.92) - 7.8))) = 135.6 Total: 135.6 additional damage from lichbane.
If we look at Diana's full combo: Q W R R Passive her ratio goes to (0.6 + 0.7 + 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.6) = 3.1
Recalculating the AP difference for Sheen + NLR: ((25 * 1.05) * 3.1) * (100 / (100 + ((30*0.92) - 7.8))) = 67.9 Total: 67.9 + 49.2 = 117.1
The second major part to this problem is the deathcap timing. From a NLR, a deathcap costs an additional 1700g. So, a player going Lichbane -> Deathcap can realistically be at Lichbane + NLR where a sheen -> Deathcap player will have this complete. At this stage:
Conclusion: When you first get a lichbane, the proc does significantly more damage than if you were going sheen -> deathcap. When you first hit your deathcap, someone who is going lichbane -> deathcap will still be doing more damage than the person who rushed deathcap after a sheen and if you proc lichbane more than once in a fight you start to jump way ahead. Also ahead if you can't land all hits of your shield or your passive, as this would reduce the AP ratio of the deathcap diana further.
Lichbane as an early item has become a better choice also because with S3 it has a base damage instead of being based purely off your AP (although its scaling has been reduced).
Well, I just tried Lichbane first and it seemed really good, much better than rushing DFG.
Apart from the burst/sustained damage, movespeed is obviously nice to have and I found the bigger manapool quite helpful too. I'm not very used to spacing out spells properly to maximize proccs. Need to play with it a bit more, but it'll probably end up as my go-to damage item.
Is it ever worthwhile to get rylais or is better to either buy more AP so your shield makes you tankier or buy warmogs? Do you ever buy health or do just rely on zhonyas to survive?
I dont know if Rylais is a great item since she has good sticking power anyway, I would probably build Warmogs if you want health but AP+ resistances are always the best option on her since her shield scales with both.
I would believe Diana scales much better early on with AP over magic pen due to her passive. 2 Doran's Rings is probably better compared to a Haunting Guide.
With the cost increase to Nashor's I've been trying out a bunch of different builds and I really like the tried and true Abyssal->Hourglass combo. After that you can go Cap, Lichbane, DFG, Nashor's, Warmogs, Rylai's, Liandry's, Void, Randuin's, GA, or even some off the wall stuff like Twin Shadows and Spectral Wraith can be really good. I like to go Nashor's if we're going for lategame because it gives huge damage through the CDR, AS and AP and it makes your farm godlike. DFG is really really good if they have a fed jungler or top lane that's really hard to kill. You can DFG+Q+W+R+R and do 80% of basically anyone, then just zhonyas and wait for Q+W to be back up. Lichbane and Cap give more sustained damage and shield, Warmogs is a great defensive item, and I prefer it over Rylai's. The slow isn't too necessary. Liandry's can be good too but because Haunting Guise has the most value midgame and it delays your core quite a bit I tend not to get it. Void is obviously good if they'r stacking MR, and Randuin's and GA are great for dealing with fed ADCs lategame. I also really like treads on Diana against CC reliant mids. They make dueling Kassadin, Ryze and Ahri midgame really easy.
I also really like to do a jungle camp with W and a health pot lvl 1 because laning as lvl 1 Diana can be really brutal. Top lane builds are pretty much the same but I've been experimenting with tank Diana builds and relying on base damages and passive to do sustained dps. That route seems to really need a Nashor, though. And after this patch I'm not sure that is good because fighting bruisers top that have 2.4k gold into items can be really hard if all you've got is Tooth and a Doran or two.
Cool trick with Lich Bane on Diana (mainly for objectives) is if you hit something with q, you have enough time to allow Bane to reset before you ult and still have the moonlight debuff on them. As long as you got mana, you tear down objectives/towers/whatever. Also lich bane can stack with your passive for tons of damage. The extra mana also helps here as you can keep your combos going for proc after proc.
I don't understand why it's not used on Diana, it's an amazing item on her and makes her damage absurd, and still works great with standard Diana builds.
On April 01 2013 17:24 Diamond wrote: Cool trick with Lich Bane on Diana (mainly for objectives) is if you hit something with q, you have enough time to allow Bane to reset before you ult and still have the moonlight debuff on them. As long as you got mana, you tear down objectives/towers/whatever. Also lich bane can stack with your passive for tons of damage. The extra mana also helps here as you can keep your combos going for proc after proc.
I don't understand why it's not used on Diana, it's an amazing item on her and makes her damage absurd, and still works great with standard Diana builds.
I always got the impression that she ends up being not durable enough unless it's a lategame item. She doesn't have the combo of hard CC + range autos TF does, for example. If only because he's the only champ I remember people buying LB on recently.
On April 01 2013 18:13 sob3k wrote: People buy it on Fizz and he has only trollpole to keep himself alive, Diana has AP scaling shield.
Trollpole is also a zhonya with freeflowing movement.
hes not significantly more mobile or more durable than Diana
Diana is only mobile to, Fizz is free form.
Sure, and Diana can cross large walls with no vision and burst dash farther, Fizz can't etc etc
the point is that they, despite slightly different mechanics, end up jumping around bursting people. If you calculate their full burst its very similar.... and they both have a single defensive skill attribute which are honestly pretty comparable (.75 seconds invulnerability vs 2x 5sec155+0.45ap shields) on very similar CD.
there is no reason that Lichbane should be core on Fizz but never built on Diana ever, his synergy with it is barely more than hers.
On April 01 2013 18:13 sob3k wrote: People buy it on Fizz and he has only trollpole to keep himself alive, Diana has AP scaling shield.
Trollpole is also a zhonya with freeflowing movement.
hes not significantly more mobile or more durable than Diana
Diana is only mobile to, Fizz is free form.
Sure, and Diana can cross large walls with no vision and burst dash farther, Fizz can't etc etc
the point is that they, despite slightly different mechanics, end up jumping around bursting people. If you calculate their full burst its very similar.... and they both have a single defensive skill attribute which are honestly pretty comparable (.75 seconds invulnerability vs 2x 5sec155+0.45ap shields) on very similar CD.
there is no reason that Lichbane should be core on Fizz but never built on Diana ever, his synergy with it is barely more than hers.
On April 01 2013 18:13 sob3k wrote: People buy it on Fizz and he has only trollpole to keep himself alive, Diana has AP scaling shield.
Trollpole is also a zhonya with freeflowing movement.
hes not significantly more mobile or more durable than Diana
Diana is only mobile to, Fizz is free form.
Sure, and Diana can cross large walls with no vision and burst dash farther, Fizz can't etc etc
the point is that they, despite slightly different mechanics, end up jumping around bursting people. If you calculate their full burst its very similar.... and they both have a single defensive skill attribute which are honestly pretty comparable (.75 seconds invulnerability vs 2x 5sec155+0.45ap shields) on very similar CD.
there is no reason that Lichbane should be core on Fizz but never built on Diana ever, his synergy with it is barely more than hers.
I don't know why you're saying barely, Having one of your primary nukes apply on-hit effects is a pretty noticable reason to auto-buy sheen. Also, yes, Fizz has noticably more mobility than Diana. Fizz can charge in, then also bounce out, because he has two mobility moves. Diana can only charge in.
Lichbane Diana is quite, quite good, but I don't know why you'd bring up fizz and be like "Diana is the same in XYZ categories" when she really isn't. It weakens your argument.
In jungle I have been running ap spirit stone item into boots of choice into nashors. This is then followed by situational items, deathcap if super fed, abyssal vs heavy magic damage etc. I really like the build for the spell vamp, mana regen, atspd and ap. It makes diana clear really fast and just purely out farm lanes.
Other build suggestions?
And is it worth it to gank before 6? Before 6 ganks feel useless but afterwards I am a living god!
On April 09 2013 19:14 1godless wrote: In jungle I have been running ap spirit stone item into boots of choice into nashors. This is then followed by situational items, deathcap if super fed, abyssal vs heavy magic damage etc. I really like the build for the spell vamp, mana regen, atspd and ap. It makes diana clear really fast and just purely out farm lanes.
Other build suggestions?
And is it worth it to gank before 6? Before 6 ganks feel useless but afterwards I am a living god!
apparently you're supposed to rush a stinger but if your goal is to stop farming jungle and just kill everyone an armguard is really good for tower diving
don't upgrade the spirit stone until very late and even then i prefer the one that sets people on fire so that once you're on top of the enemy adc and you've got no cooldowns to blow, your autos do something while you wait
On April 09 2013 19:14 1godless wrote: In jungle I have been running ap spirit stone item into boots of choice into nashors. This is then followed by situational items, deathcap if super fed, abyssal vs heavy magic damage etc. I really like the build for the spell vamp, mana regen, atspd and ap. It makes diana clear really fast and just purely out farm lanes.
Other build suggestions?
And is it worth it to gank before 6? Before 6 ganks feel useless but afterwards I am a living god!
apparently you're supposed to rush a stinger but if your goal is to stop farming jungle and just kill everyone an armguard is really good for tower diving
don't upgrade the spirit stone until very late and even then i prefer the one that sets people on fire so that once you're on top of the enemy adc and you've got no cooldowns to blow, your autos do something while you wait
You're Diana. With a Nashor's your autos do something. The Spell Vamp is amazing on Diana jungle, due to Spell Vamp working on Smite (Saved me on many a dive smiting an enemy creep for instant 150+ heal). With AP being miles better aswell for shield and burst (.6 scaling on passive). Why would you spend 300G EXTRA on Elder Lizard, when Spectral Wraith is so much better on Diana? ><
True, but I just feel like I dont have the raw, oh now you're dead, burst I have from lane. Obviously this has to do with less farm in the jungle but I also believe it might be because of the build. Nashors plus spectral wraith also has 0 tank stats except the cdr for your shield and vamp.
On April 10 2013 02:13 1godless wrote: True, but I just feel like I dont have the raw, oh now you're dead, burst I have from lane. Obviously this has to do with less farm in the jungle but I also believe it might be because of the build. Nashors plus spectral wraith also has 0 tank stats except the cdr for your shield and vamp.
I don't have this issue when I jungle Diana. What masteries/runes do you run? - Diana has great trade damage even in the jungle, and has both burst (post 6) and heavy sustained dmg due to her passive. Spectral Wraith gives her everything she wants, and you can just go hourglass from there. Nashor's really isn't an item you should rush on jungle Diana, unless you're snowballing unbelievably hard.
Also in regards to Pre-6 ganks, it really depends on lanes. If you have irelia top, and they didn't ward, go for the gank. If their mid is past the midway point in lane, gank. Your counterganks are incredible aswell, so I see no reason not to atleast be near where you think their jungler will gank first.
So how do you actually counter diana? I play her exclusively mid and I've can't say that I've ever lost the lane, and I just played ryze v diana and it was fucking painful. She just destroyed me past 6 even after feeding fb. What do you do when the other guy firstpicks diana?
You can't really counter Diana. The best thing you could do is bully her hard pre-6 and try to stop her from bursting your squishies in teamfights. Ryze actually does quite well against Diana if you recognize the fact that, unless you have a huge lead, at level 6 she destroys you if you don't build Ryze properly. In some cases I'd even delay Tear until after null-magic mantle and at least Catalyst, preferably Rod of Ages. Also you can't ever get away with going utility heavy masteries. The info in this thread is really outdated though, and you shouldn't refer to it.
yeah, I realised that after the game. I went tear into nmm into catalyst and then got mercs but that wasn't really enough. I guess I'll just pick bruisers for mid if I see her again - doesn't happen that often thankfully.
If Diana reacts to you picking bruisers properly then she can survive and outscale lategame. Try to gank other lanes if you can't deal with her, especially post-6. Teleport should also be taken into consideration since very few champions can kill Diana.
On June 20 2013 03:46 Audemed wrote: New nashor's tooth seems to be a definite easy choice for midgame pickup, but I'm new so I could be wrong. Thoughts?
If you can afford to get it in lieu of tankieness, go ahead.
On June 20 2013 07:06 Shikyo wrote: Pretty sure Diana actually is the one who counters Akali --
Diana needs mana.
Oh I see, so every single mana champion loses to every single non-mana champion. This is some flawless logic. Let's rewrite our countermatchup charts.
Just FYI, Akali can do W -> Q -> E -> OUT OF ENERGY. She cannot use E at all due to energy. It limits her far more than mana limits Diana. She barely even has mana costs.
The later the game goes the higher her burst potential is on you and her burst potential is not limited by having to land a skillshot. The last time I played vs an Akali as Diana mid was against a diamond and he completely annihilated me post-6. You're not "trading" against a good Akali even pre-6. She's getting one q and one auto then backing out while you spend mana on W, only half of which absorbs the burst damage. She has innate spellvamp and you don't. She has a resource which doesn't need sustain and you don't. She doesn't have to build d-rings and you do. Her burst at level 6 is comparable to yours except it's not reliant on landing a skillshot to do half of it.
Perhaps the issue is that I'm really bad with Diana? I mean I'm only platinum but I think I know how to play her decently. Akali will snowball really hard if she gets ahead even by a little.
On June 20 2013 07:06 Shikyo wrote: Pretty sure Diana actually is the one who counters Akali --
Diana needs mana.
Oh I see, so every single mana champion loses to every single non-mana champion. This is some flawless logic. Let's rewrite our countermatchup charts.
Just FYI, Akali can do W -> Q -> E -> OUT OF ENERGY. She cannot use E at all due to energy. It limits her far more than mana limits Diana. She barely even has mana costs.
When the fuck are you using W ever in lane LOL
I mean that's like assuming that Diana starts every trade by blowing E
On June 20 2013 08:25 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: The later the game goes the higher her burst potential is on you and her burst potential is not limited by having to land a skillshot. The last time I played vs an Akali as Diana mid was against a diamond and he completely annihilated me post-6. You're not "trading" against a good Akali even pre-6. She's getting one q and one auto then backing out while you spend mana on W, only half of which absorbs the burst damage. She has innate spellvamp and you don't. She has a resource which doesn't need sustain and you don't. She doesn't have to build d-rings and you do. Her burst at level 6 is comparable to yours except it's not reliant on landing a skillshot to do half of it.
Perhaps the issue is that I'm really bad with Diana? I mean I'm only platinum but I think I know how to play her decently. Akali will snowball really hard if she gets ahead even by a little.
This part. Your early levels definitely favor Diana, no question. But eventually akali will hit that level where you can't really stop her farm or sustain and it gets much trickier. You cannot burst her down and trades start becoming in her favor once her R stacks accrue. Her items also curves her power much steeper than Diana's and she snowballs much easier than Diana.
What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
she has some seriously good laning. 1-5 just last hit with q and just decide if you want to hit the entire wave with it or not, depending on how much they shove. if the other laner is passive or bad you can shove yourself, back for a dring and just take wraiths on every spawn. past 6 you kill pretty much anything 1v1.
out of the ones you mentioned, I can imagine only darius being a truly hard lane. lee sin I haven't played against but I guess it's dependent on how good the player is (much like any LS matchup). imo, you have the advantage of a) following him with r if he tries to escape and b) your q going through creeps while his doesn't so you can get some free-ish harass in (if he's good he'll just w away of course but like I said, it's skill-dependent). ziggs just dies past 6, you can outtrade khazix if you get a passive in, too
On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote: What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or...?
Diana is seriously one of the best/safest laners in the game. You could probably count the number of really disadvantaged lanes for her on one hand. In most lanes she can at least go even. In a lot of lanes she can just bully people once she hits 6. She can trade with a ton of top laners pre-6 too because her shield and passive are so damn good and even if you can't trade it's no big deal because you have a ranged AoE spell that you can use to farm if you get chunked down.
Also, Drings price reduction is an indirect buff to her laning imoimo.
On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote: What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
If you are talking about who Diana directly counters, I'd say Katarina and Akali.
On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote: What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
I don't know about new Kha but old Kha, Diana had advantage. (New Kha, you lose if you take isolation Q's so watch your positioning during trades). Darius dumps on you and I suspect Lee advantages him but not significantly. Ziggs shouldn't beat you in lane unless you take way too much poke.
The mids I find annoying are Yi and Mordekaiser.
Ryze is also up there mostly because of his ability to give junglers ganks.
On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote: What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
I don't know about new Kha but old Kha, Diana had advantage. (New Kha, you lose if you take isolation Q's so watch your positioning during trades). Darius dumps on you and I suspect Lee advantages him but not significantly. Ziggs shouldn't beat you in lane unless you take way too much poke.
The mids I find annoying are Yi and Mordekaiser.
Ryze is also up there mostly because of his ability to give junglers ganks.
On June 20 2013 22:54 Nos- wrote: What are some lanes that Diana doesn't suffer in? I've recently started playing her and holy shit I feel like I get shit on in lane all the time: Khazix dumped on me, Lee Sin dumped on me, Darius dumped on me, Ziggs kind of dumped on me (not after I hit 6). She's really fun and powerful after lvl6 and gets some items (drings + abyssal or something) but oh my god laning with her makes me feel terrible
If you are talking about who Diana directly counters, I'd say Katarina and Akali.
My experience directly contradicts this, what is the strategy in lane against Akali that prevents her from winning at 6?
Seriously we've talked for a page about the matchup and in that whole time all you've done is say "diana is a hardcounter to akali" with no justification or evidence.
What league are you/how often do you play the matchup/why do you think that?
This is what a really high-rated akali has to say about the matchup from 5 days ago:
I didn't play the matchup before the nerf because I wasn't a Diana player before the nerf but it really feels like she got hit hard. If you miss Q you die post-6 because Akali can just all-in you with charges and blow through your shield. Obviously whoever gets better ganks will win but I don't think "snowballs either way" is the same as "Diana hardcounters Akali".
On June 23 2013 12:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: This is what a really high-rated akali has to say about the matchup from 5 days ago:
I didn't play the matchup before the nerf because I wasn't a Diana player before the nerf but it really feels like she got hit hard. If you miss Q you die post-6 because Akali can just all-in you with charges and blow through your shield. Obviously whoever gets better ganks will win but I don't think "snowballs either way" is the same as "Diana hardcounters Akali".
Perhaps I underestimated the Diana nerfs.
If Diana does not counter Akali in lane, then there is something wrong with Diana.
On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote: What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all?
Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will.
On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote: What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all?
Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will.
On August 06 2013 01:54 Requizen wrote: What's build like nowadays? Rings/Zhonya/Abyssal bruiser style, or more assassin DCap shit?
Also, does Diana jungle work anymore at all?
Bruiser seems to be the standard. According to Meteos, her last round of nerfs killed any compelling reason to jungle her. Take from that what you will.
Well, did he ever jungle her in the LCS pre-nerf?
IDK, but one time when I was watching him stream he asked the viewers which one to play. Of course he got a bunch of stuff like Teemo and whatnot. When he said no to Diana, he explained her disfavor.
In my limited and bad experience jungle Diana suffers from lack of pre-6 gank presence and then when teamfights you're an ok damage threat but you also can't tank a lot of damage. I had trouble figuring out what my role was in the games I played (either getting blown up initiating without zhonya's or waiting to dive in and not being able to burst people in time for it to be important with how the teamfight plays out.)
Mid I've been grabbing a sheen after a ring and boots if I'm doing well (have a kill or so) but in no way I'm I advocating it as optimal but I like it
Basically, between the post-release Diana nerfs and the changes to the jungle meta, jungle Diana just isn't viable. She's not a complete joke, but she's way down the list in terms of competitiveness.
What are your toughts on attack speed reds on mid diana? I feel she definetly need some as for her combo to be alot smoother, but nashor tooth give "too much" of it imo. do you think the natural as growth is enought for her? is the penetration not worth sacrificing? maybe a mix of the 2?
depends on what you want to do, even before the nerf to her passive, building Nashor's was never about damaging champions, it got the job done, but it was build for pushing down towers quickly either to punish roaming or to split push. In a Duel attack speed is just inferior to pen for damage.
Has anyone else tried out jungle Diana with the new Spirit of the Spectral Wraith passives? It seems like a pretty solid pick up on her, and I have had some success with it. Getting that, Sorc boots then some defensive stats (Abyssal/Zhonyas) feels pretty strong.
I play her a lot in the jungle too lately. Full carry style taking every blue and tax like crazy. With her insane clear + the gold passive you can get really farmed, often surpassing solo laners. Pre 6 ganks are obv the big drawback, but with a point in e + flash to apply red you can make something happen if you chose right lane to gank. After 6 ganks are super strong obv.
On December 18 2013 02:18 Kenpark wrote: I play her a lot in the jungle too lately. Full carry style taking every blue and tax like crazy. With her insane clear + the gold passive you can get really farmed, often surpassing solo laners. Pre 6 ganks are obv the big drawback, but with a point in e + flash to apply red you can make something happen if you chose right lane to gank. After 6 ganks are super strong obv.
Nice. Can you share your item build / runes and mastery build?
I´m no jungle main and dont have a specific runepage for her. I just use my Kayle page with armor yellows, ap quints, ap blues and for reds I use a mix of as and hybrid pens. Masteries I use 25/5 taking both ap and ad damage. Just get as much ap/ad as possible. The 3 points in defense tree for reduced damage from monsters + your shield allows you to basicly stay in the jungle as long as you want. Itemwise I still dont know what to get on her. I rush this ap jungle gold/5 item and sorc boots but after that you have a lot of options. I´ve been experimenting with gunblade followed by a nashor tooth with decent success, but you are really squishy and more of a 1on1 assassin then Best bet is prob get your usual Diana items like hourglass, abbysal etc.
On December 19 2013 03:30 Kenpark wrote: I´m no jungle main and dont have a specific runepage for her. I just use my Kayle page with armor yellows, ap quints, ap blues and for reds I use a mix of as and hybrid pens. Masteries I use 25/5 taking both ap and ad damage. Just get as much ap/ad as possible. The 3 points in defense tree for reduced damage from monsters + your shield allows you to basicly stay in the jungle as long as you want. Itemwise I still dont know what to get on her. I rush this ap jungle gold/5 item and sorc boots but after that you have a lot of options. I´ve been experimenting with gunblade followed by a nashor tooth with decent success, but you are really squishy and more of a 1on1 assassin then Best bet is prob get your usual Diana items like hourglass, abbysal etc.
Thanks for your sharing and I'll give this a shot. However if you are going on full ap items would it be better just to have the standard 21/9 ap favored mastery?
So my presence has been requested to discuss Diana jungle. I shall do so a bit later tonight, in the mean time tell me things you want to know so I can make the post as badass as possible.
On March 11 2014 08:35 Diamond wrote: So my presence has been requested to discuss Diana jungle. I shall do so a bit later tonight, in the mean time tell me things you want to know so I can make the post as badass as possible.
I'm mostly curious as to simple runes and masteries and item progressions to make her as effective as possible from the jungle. Your goals at various points in the game would be interesting to hear as well.
What are you thoughts on Diana switching to a utility tank with damage rather than an ap assassin with utility? Or... when do you like to deviate from mainly offensive items to defensive. Iceborn Gauntlet, Frozen Heart, Sunfire, Banshee, Randuins, Visage and the like
What are you favorite champion combos to team up with?
On March 11 2014 08:57 R04R wrote: What are you thoughts on Diana switching to a utility tank with damage rather than an ap assassin with utility? Or... when do you like to deviate from mainly offensive items to defensive. Iceborn Gauntlet, Frozen Heart, Sunfire, Banshee, Randuins, Visage and the like
What are you favorite champion combos to team up with?
Ok I'm starting Part 1, will be a bit. Decided to part it out for sanity, also allows me to do things like go over every damn item, etc. Expect a few hours unless I accidentally press "Post" instead of "Preview".
Edit: Btw when I said parts, I meant not all of them tonight. But I will ofc answer questions when I'm wrapped up with this.
Hello! Some people on here were asking for some help with jungle Diana so here it is as requested for you! For those that aren't familiar with me, I am someone that has been jungling Diana since her initial release. I was gifted an RP card by the awesome Semi Pro Joe and have not stopped playing her since. I am not a good player by any means as a Gold level jungler, but I have always played Diana and feel I know some tips and tricks that may help people. I have approx 700 normal games with her, and since Season 2 (I started ranked one month before Season 2 end) roughly 150 ranked games.
I also like to play AD Diana on Dominion, but that's another story....
PART 0: WHY?
Above all I find Diana jungle to be very fun and one of the strongest AP junglers regardless of jungle state outside of Elise. While she needs to get items to keep up with the game, there is no single item, rune, or mastery that dictates her ability to jungle. At this point the only things that could change this is a total jungle rework or a Diana rework, neither seeming likely. No matter what changes about jungle items, rune or mastery reworks, she will be able to jungle fine. Most people don't realize but you can jungle Diana efficiently on a Lvl 1 account, and that applied even before Spirit items returned health/mana. You can run all crit dmage runes and 0/0/30 and with a leash on the 1st buff, you will be fine (although you will have to make your 1st back much earlier).
What I like the most however about Diana jungle is the ability to make massive plays, and become an 1 shot assassin that comes from no where. She brings the same stopping power as a Kha'Zix most points of the game, while being tanky at the same time. She can start an entire teamfight or just pick someone off in 2 seconds. She brings many aspects to the table while being completely flexible in all areas. Except one.
The largest knack against Diana and her legitimate only barrier to being a Tier 1 jungle is her god-awful pre level 6. While she brings more early threat than some champions, most of them are picks like Warwick jungle which are rarely seen. However recently meta changes to the jungle have I believe made her a possible solid pick. Champions like Vi/Wukong are largely seen as "farm till 6" champions and are still viable. While her ult does not read "press r to kill enemy mid laner" like Vi, she brings much more utility to her team at all points, with some amazing objective control.
This page is a rune page I stole from TheOddOne of TSM as his go to for AP junglers. I have really taken a like to it over time, and feel it's very appropriate for Diana jungle.
Marks - Only ever run attack speed reds. Only deviation is if you like to run 1 crit % mark, but anything else will not bring you the value of AS red's. You auto attack A LOT as Diana and have a built in 20% AS buff on your passive. With runes/masteries/passive you will have a 40% AS boost at level 1! It's pretty close to a Recurve Bow + Dagger for your early clears. With this setup you will find your AS going up quite high no matter the items you choose to build.
Most of your Lvl 1-4 damage is AD, you will want the attack speed
Seals - Flat armor yellows because you are out of your mind if you ever run anything else on any champion in the game as is.
Glyphs - I now run flat AP Glyph's. You have a very strong early clear without extra AP, the extra 11 from this just makes it that much better. I do take these mainly for their pre-6 vs monster power. However you can run any glyph you want. I will cover a few common ones.
Scaling AP - Diana jungle falls behind in AP late game no matter what, and these runes will not change that. I tend to favor the overwhelming early power of Diana as a fighter and value her end game as a utility initiator assassin thing?
MR (flat or scaling) - These are fine. Seasons 2 and 3 I ran only these, however now with the Season 4 increased jungle gold you have more money to buy MR items that will give more impact. These are really good as you are learning Diana, as they allow you to make some risky plays a bit less risky.
CDR - Don't. CDR is pretty useless on Diana, you don't need it.
Armor - Again don't. You will stop taking any real damage from the jungle early on and your W is A LOT of HP at all stages of the game. If this is something you want to do, you would be better off with AP of some sort to just make kills faster. Remember, at the core you are an assassin.
Anything not listed here is probably not optimal on jungle Diana, but can be used if you lack the proper Glyphs.
Quints - This is the wild west. ANYTHING that you might want on any of the following would be ok.
A: Assassin B: Mage C: Tank D: Initiator
Diana by design fills four unique roles all by herself, so anything can work. In a period of Season 3 I ran Move Speed quints, I have run hybrid pen, whatever. At the moment same as glyph's I value the early clear power and the extra oomph on the early ganks. Remember also AP gives more shield which is more health.
For starting Diana players Flat AP all the way. As you learn more about her matchups and style however, you will find having a move speed quint page will do you well.
I prefer to run 21/9/0 currently as most junglers do. In a perfect world you would run 21/0/9 however the defense on Diana is very vital in the current jungle/meta. Do not let this deter you from exploring however. I have recently ran 9/0/21 Diana and of course 9/21/0 Diana with no problems. As I mentioned earlier, she is not dependent on a certain rune/mastery setup. I will touch now on a few key masteries.
Executioner - You are an assassin, even if you are behind or building utility based you do a lot damage, and this mastery is very nice for finishing people off with.
Fury - AS > CDR on Diana, no exceptions.
Archmage - This imo is very overrated on Diana. Unless you are hard snowballing (like 10-0 at 10 minutes) you will end most games with 300 or so AP. While this mastery makes sense at that point, a majority of your large AP boost items are bought later in the game. This mastery for a large majority of the game will provide you with 2-4 AP for 3 mastery points. I do not believe this is worth.
Devastating Strikes - God bless this mastery. Get it if you are deep in the offensive tree every time.
Enhanced Armor - I normally choose to skip this but if you pick Diana jungle into a team comp that is all glass cannons (ex: Teemo, Zed, Ezreal, Nami) it could be wise to take this.
Runic Affinity - I really wish there was a more motivating case to run 9 utility, as this mastery is MASSIVE on Diana. However the sacrifices you have to make to get it rarely pay off.
SKILLS
Passive: Moonsilver Blade - This is the skill that makes Diana have such a strong jungling kit despite being an AP mage. DO NOT underestimate the damage as or vs Diana this puts out, especially at lvl's 1-2. I used to practice my lane Diana vs a friend that was in plat as a top Renekton main. He had to run very specific runes/masteries/items to be able to win a trade lvl's 1-3 vs Diana. This passive makes her destroy champs like Vi and Wukong early. I cannot stress how important keeping track of your autos in early fights is to maximize use of the cleave part of it.
NOTE: This passive can proc the same auto as Lich Bane. It's possible with Bane/Death Cap/Nashor's/Zhonya's to have 1k damage autos at times.
NOTE 2: This passive WORKS on towers. Combined with the free attack speed, you are one of the best junglers at tearing down towers with or without items.
Q: Crescent Strike - This is by far the hardest part of Diana's kit. The arc that her Q fires in takes some time to get used to and nothing but experience with it will fix that. When you learn to use this ability however it has many flexible uses. It is also one of the best skills when chasing someone thru a jungle to hit them and aggro a neutral camp to them at the same time.
NOTE: This skill provides vision (but does not reveal invisible units). Use it when chasing or to start a camp you are on your way to. You can also use this vision to check enemy buff camps safely when you are without wards. It can reach over any single direct wall in the game (including Baron/Drag pit). However if you are behind dragon pit vs a dragon that is pulled out it will not reach it.
W: Pale Cascade - This is Part 2 of why Diana has a great jungling kit. This ability is a great AOE clearing ability that also gives you two shields vs every camp. It's a great skill with good scaling and utility. Learn to love this spell.
NOTE: If low on mana use this as your single skill to clear a camp. Although it's mana costs are higher, the AOE clear + double shield is very strong and will pay off the best. However in the same token, at level 5 this is your single most expensive skill, when you use it, get use from it or you will OOM quickly.
NOTE 2: This is one of the best skills in the game for tracking close invisible champions that doesn't directly reveal. The orb's hitbox is not a whole lot larger than the particle for it. If you hit a close invisible enemy with an orb it will tell you their approx location. This is best used vs units with short invisibility like Kha'Zix. I have killed SO many invisible champs because of this skill tipping me off to where exactly they are running to.
E: Moonfall - A very underrated skill. While there is no direct damage, a circular AOE slow of up to 55% on a non-ult is very strong.
NOTE: This can be used as an escape ability vs enemies not named Lee Sin. If you have the ability to sustain an auto or so of extra damage, the slow you put on them will often be the difference between and escape and dying. NEVER use it in this manner vs Lee however, or you will regret it.
NOTE 2: As mentioned by Arb earlier in this thread, Moonfall will count as making the enemies airborne to allow Yasuo to ult to them. If you have a good Yasuo, Diana has an amazing synergy as both ult c/d's are low, and once Diana can ult to you, she can hit her E or force you to flash. Not to mention the 5 man Ult>E>Zhonya>Yasuo Ult teamfight initiation combo.
NOTE 3: If you are close range to a unit that recently went invisible immediately pop this, cast W, and cast Q on top of yourself. If you do it fast enough you will not only get the slow to make their escape harder, but you will get a lot of damage down on them. This skill ALWAYS gets the enemy right on top of Diana, you will get 3 W orbs popped and a Q.
R: Lunar Rish - Understanding when to use Lunar Rush will separate the good Diana's from the average Diana's. This skill for being so straightforward, is the hardest part of Diana aside for her Q arc. In a perfect world you always lead an ult with a Q, but knowing when to just blow it without is what will make plays happen. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF R>E>Q combo (ie: no reset)!
NOTE: You can cast this while Q is in the air, land before the Q, and still get the reset. See attached video starting at 24s.
NOTE 2: Previously Diana's ult counted as one stack of her passive. Meaning a Q>Ult>Ult would make the follow up auto a passive charged one. This was ninja-removed several patches ago, and from my understanding was not intentional. While this does not work at the moment, you should be aware of this interaction should it silently return.
NOTE 3: Once in awhile Lunar Rush does no damage. Don't know why, but know you can get hung out to dry with it on occasion. Very rare however.
NOTE 4: You can go over any amount of walls with this, however the range is too small to jump to Dragon/Baron from over the wall except in ONE particular spot. I have seen Voyboy do this, but I cannot replicate it reliably enough to document the spot.
SKILL ORDER
As a jungle Diana player, you should be flexible with your skill points. Aside for putting points into your ult at lvl's 6, 11, and 16 and getting W level 1, no other skill point has to be spent in any order.
ALWAYS start W lvl 1. No other skill should be needed. Diana with W lvl 1 is one of the very best duelists in the game, and you are a force to be reckoned with. It gives you health to make your 1st buff easier, as well as provides damage. I do like in most games to put a 2nd point into W by level 4, the extra shield is very nice.
DO NOT fight against a Diana lvl 1, in most situations she will win if she has W.
As for the leveling priority, there is no set order. I change it up every game. Here's the ups and downs of the skill ordering
Max Q 1st: This tends to be my go to. The ranged damage increase is very nice, and getting the base cooldown to 6 seconds is pretty nice. However in teams that lack escapes, or just can outright dodge your Q (ie: Fizz) I do not max this 1st.
Max W 1st: This is actually a great route to in slow farm heavy games. Your W at level 5 is sufficient to take on camps alone at any point of the game, and most of the time later on will one shot some small creeps. The other reason I do this from time to time is when I am behind and being counter jungled heavily. The extra health will go a long way.
Max E 1st: WHAT? E 1st? Yes. It can work. It's very specific to certain enemy comps/junglers, but it happens. The most obvious example is when jungling vs Hecarim. This skill at level 5 screws Hecarim pretty hard, or can really interfere with an enemy rammus' powerball. I think I have done this about a total of 10 times ever, so if you are new to Diana, do not do this. It's a very specific thing vs enemies that are reliant on move speed. One other situation would be if your lanes are getting very ahead early. If ahead, most of the time R>E will be enough for them to secure a skill and is very easy for you to do with no real risk.
2nd skill to max: I actually find myself evenly maxing W and E 2nd. The slow increase + CDR on E is nice, and the lesser mana cost on the W is as well. In skirmish heavy, low farm games you will be very heavily gated by available mana instead of cooldowns. If you have to use your W every 10 seconds you will be relegated to an auto attacker only. Keeping your W costs minimal while still slowly increasing it is good. I officially suggest an even level of W and E with W having priority.
If you did not max Q 1st, max Q 2nd.
OK I'm done for the night, it's 1am and I have to be up at 7am. Will continue on with it, and sorry if the end is sloppy, I got pretty tired and will touch it up tomorrow.
I know everyone's asking about pre-6, and I'm going to make a section for it. However until then the very very short version is this image I was working on with my high level photo editing skills.
Is there a window to E->Flash such that they can't Flash out of the E? I've been trying to, but I'm not sure if it's just my latency, or if I'm executing it incorrectly, or if it's just impossible.
On March 12 2014 06:29 MidnightGladius wrote: Is there a window to E->Flash such that they can't Flash out of the E? I've been trying to, but I'm not sure if it's just my latency, or if I'm executing it incorrectly, or if it's just impossible.
I am in Michigan so I have 100 or so ping all the time so I can't speak for lower ping. But at 100~ ping, they can always flash out. I'm always ok with that, 20s~ c/d for 5 minute one.
Edit: Big storm tomorrow. If all goes well (ie: snowed in but power is good) going to hammer out a section or two. Played some games today also, might do some commentary on the replays if time allows.
NOTE: You can cast this while Q is in the air, land before the Q, and still get the reset. See attached video starting at 24s.
Wait what? I've watched that video and still don't understand: if you cast ult while Q is in the air, you get the reset regardless of whether you or the Q arrives first? I thought there was a timing where you had to throw Q and then arrive with your ult at the same time the Q hits.
If your account is level 11 or under use ghost, only reason ever not to use flash. You need it to go over walls for smite steals, as well as flash ults.
ITEMS
Standard opening - You CAN open other things like Boots+Pots or Cloth+Post, but machete is the best option. Your 1st clear is largely AD based, so it will work well.
Look to get Spirit Stone, Boots, and Pots on your 1st back. If you have the gold for Spirit + Fiendish Codex (but not boots) I find it more effective to get the boots. Speed is what you want early.
Spirit Item Choices: 1 - Spirit of the Spectral Wraith - This is normally your go to Spirit Item on jungle Diana. Every stat works well, and with Diana's ability to powerfarm camps she can stack this to max AP very quick.
2 - Spirit of the Ancient Golem - This is actually not a horrible item on jungle Diana although it is a very specific one. Sometimes you will pick jungle Diana early and your team will completely ignore this and pick 100% glass cannons. When thrust into this situation sometimes it can be effective. Getting it allows you to build Sorc Shoes and still have the tenacity. The only thing that stops this from being more attractive is it has health over armor/mr. You get a fair amount of health from your W, so resistances are the key stats you are looking for. Only build this once you have some Diana jungle games under your belt and only if you get stuck in an all glass cannon comp (and aren't snowballing).
3 - Spirit of the Eldar Lizard: Don't build this unless you are trolling, and if you are trolling, stop trolling ffs.
Boot Choices:
1 - Sorceress Shoes - The far and away best choice. Flat magic penetration is a very effective stat on an assassin. These should be a high priority to finish, and never any later than after your Spirit item. However in games that are gank/skirmish heavy, it can be well worth it to finish these before your Spirit item is complete (but of course AFTER Spirit Stone). Getting a full Spirit item + Sorc Shoes is a major power spike in Diana's power, When you complete a Spectral Wraith with Sorc Shoes, you should be looking to make plays soon after.
2 - Mercury Treads - This is a great option vs CC heavy teams. Although the magic pen from Sorc Shoes is always missed, Merc treads are ALWAYS a viable option.
3* - Boots of Mobility - These boots are actually very nice on jungle Diana, as you can outrun most lanes when setting up your ganks. If the enemy team is playing super duper aggro and pushing all lanes these can be very strong. You can just go gank lanes back to back to back, as all your cooldowns are VERY low.
There is a * on that and it is this. If you are playing in lower brackets like Bronze or Silver these should be moved to an equal as Sorc Shoes. In lower elos like Bronze and Silver laners often lack A: Wards, B: Map Awareness and C: Paying attention to enemy items. This means many games have the ability to gank non-stop and just snowball like mad. Diana has a very strong mid game, and these boots can snowball you to the moon. When I played in Bronze and Silver, this is the boots I used 99% of the time. Later in the game you swap them out for Merc's or Sorc's, but they are very strong in the right elo.
4 - Everything else - The other boots in the game don't fit Diana very well, and should likely never be purchased.
Godly items
Lich Bane - In my opinion this is the single best item you can purchase on Diana. Every single stat is amazing on her, and she has a very unique synergy with the passive. With all her skills being low cooldown, you can chain massive amounts of Lich Bane procs.
One interaction I feel many people do not know about Lich Bane and Diana deals with her moonlight deubff. If you cast a Q (putting moonlight on the target) and attack very quickly after, the Lich Bane proc will be ready for another charge BEFORE moonlight wears off. Meaning you can get 2 procs on your Q>Ult all while keeping your ult on cooldown. Although this does not matter much vs champions who will not stay still for you Dragon, Baron, Towers, and Inhibitors all will stand very nice and still for you. This makes Diana with Lich Bane have amazing objective control and she can tear down objectives faster than any other AP mage besides Twisted Fate.
An example combo would be: Q>R>W>Q>R>E>Q>R>W>Q>R>R. That's 12 procs in a row. The longest c/d you have is 25 seconds. It's a nice synergy.
Nashor's Tooth - For the longest time I was not sold on this item until I watched Nightblue's stream, and saw the potential power of this item. It provides a bunch of desirable stats and the passive looks underwhelming but is actually very nice. It's very nice as Diana to have both this item + Lich Bane, but when on a budget one or the other will usually suffice. I usually build the Stinger 1st on this item, however if you need AP quick, going Codex first is fine.
Zhonya's Hourglass - This is an amazing item on Diana. While the stats are all very good, it's the active that has great synergy on Diana. In the late game there is often opportunities to engage on a whole team with Ult>E. However you will instantly die if you do so. In comes the Zhonya active, giving you enough time to get another round of cooldowns and escape.
The downside of this item is that one of the components is a 1600 gold single item, often a steep cost for any jungler. Thus there is many games where you will have to sacrifice a lot to get it, and it's why I don't always get this item. In games where saving up 1600 gold is just not an option, this item can be easily skipped. Do not be afraid however to get a Seeker's Armguard and sit on it for a long time, finishing your Hourglass 5th or 6th item. The Seeker's Armguard is a very good item and worthy of a slot on Diana for most of the game on it's own merit.
In a perfect world, you always build this item, in reality I only find myself finishing this in LONG games. It used to be 100% vital to get this fast on Diana jungle, now not so much. It's still a godly item, but no longer a true requirement and brings less than Lich Bane or Nashor's Tooth do.
Great items: Abyssal Scepter - A golden oldie on Diana. This item for the longest time was the only item that provided AP + MR and sync'd well with her kit (the Athene's CDR is a waste), still even now it provides 20 more AP and 5 more MR than Twin Shadows. Add in the MR debuff aura and you have a great item for a close ranged AP Assassin. This is always a solid choice on Diana, and you won't go wrong with it.
Void Staff - When you are snowballing hard and getting lots of kills, this item rocks. You will not often to get to build it out of the jungle, due to a need to build hybrid tank/AP items, but if you are strong, use this to cement that lead.
Banshee's Veil - This item rocks on Diana IF you have or plan on going Zhonya's Hourglass. When Banshee's + Zhonya's you will be a god at starting teamfights, and will often be able to suck up lots of punishment and survive. If you are NOT building Zhonya's, I would not suggest this item.
Liandry's Torment - This is sort of a weird one. While Liandry's itself is only a mediocre item on Diana, the Haunting Guise it builds out of is very strong. Haunting Guise is a great item to get early on jungle Diana, but if you don't don't finish it out until later in the game, the burn passive is not that amazing on her.
Guardian Angel - Armor, MR, and a Revive passive? Sounds great to me! Dive and die, and follow up with another dive. GA is strong as a 4th-6th item on Diana.
Ok items: Rabadon's Deathcap - The single largest AP item in the game does well on Diana. The two things that stop it from being a better item is that it build out of Needlessly Large Rod and also that it has 0 defensive anything. This item has one single use on Diana. When you A: are very fed very early and B: happen to go back with 1600+ gold early on. Any other situation is too risky.
Deathfire Grasp - This has the same limitation as Deathcap. No defense, and builds out of Large Rod. On top of that the gold spent on CDR will feel wasted.
Rylai's Crystal Scepter - This item is gated by the fact that the slow does very little for you (Q and W are multi-target). Health is not that amazing on Diana, and the AP is good but not enough to outweigh the other stuff. If this was not the largest single health item with AP (not counting stacked ROA) attached to it, it would be lower.
Morellenomicon - This is a 100% situational item. Only build this for the AP/Healing debuff. Great vs things like Mundo/Tynd/etc. Other than vs those types of opponents, would be considered a poor item choice
Twin Shadows - Originally I thought this might be a godly item, but with Nashor's/Lich Bane + Spirit + Boots being so critical to get 1st, by the time you get this it's pretty lackluster. The CC is very nice, the move speed is great as well as AP + MR, but the timing is what holds it back.
Don't build these Hextech Gunblade - You are not a hybrid assassin. You are mainly AD pre level 6, and almost all AP after level 6.
Rod OF Ages - This item takes too long to get going from the jungle, brings a ton of useless health, and provides WAYYY too much mana for Diana.
Athene's Unholy Grail - The AP is cool, the rest is not important. 2600 gold for 60 AP is A LOT.
Ohmwrecker - It has AP, or I would not even bother listing it. Not useful for a jungler.
Will of the Ancients - Spellvamp has always been lackluster on Diana. The only single target damage you do is auto's and ult, neither a majority of your damage mid to late game.
I think your Rylai's description is cut off a little bit.
Also why do you hate on CDR but like Nashor's Tooth? Isn't it really important to keep your Q CDR low, and doesn't it indirectly make you tankier by decreasing your W downtime? Is Nashor's Tooth really worth it against champions (as opposed to the faster clear)?
NOTE: You can cast this while Q is in the air, land before the Q, and still get the reset. See attached video starting at 24s.
Wait what? I've watched that video and still don't understand: if you cast ult while Q is in the air, you get the reset regardless of whether you or the Q arrives first? I thought there was a timing where you had to throw Q and then arrive with your ult at the same time the Q hits.
From how I understand it you can hit your R first before the Q hits and get the reset still. If you notice, there is about a 0.5-1 second internal cool down on R where even if they are debuffed by Q, you can't recast R yet. It is during this internal cool down that I believe the game checks if the Q debuff is on them and if R should be reset, thus you have a small window for hitting it before Q lands.
Also Liandry's has a passive, not an active. Why don't you like CDR on her? Means more shields, and more Qs indirectly leading to more ults. Sure it doesn't help your passive but it boosts your damage slightly, your mobility, and your tankiness.
On March 13 2014 04:54 GrandInquisitor wrote: I think your Rylai's description is cut off a little bit.
Also why do you hate on CDR but like Nashor's Tooth? Isn't it really important to keep your Q CDR low, and doesn't it indirectly make you tankier by decreasing your W downtime? Is Nashor's Tooth really worth it against champions (as opposed to the faster clear)?
I like Nashor's for the AP/AS/Proc. The AS means more passive procs, AP is AP, and the proc adds a nice bit of extra damage. The CDR could be almost any stat of equal value and the item would still be very nice on her. Nashor's like any item is not for 100% of games, but it's strong vs champions and monsters. Runes/Masteries/Nashor's is 90% AS buff, your passive will be going off like crazy.
On March 13 2014 06:54 Alaric wrote: Also Liandry's has a passive, not an active. Why don't you like CDR on her? Means more shields, and more Qs indirectly leading to more ults. Sure it doesn't help your passive but it boosts your damage slightly, your mobility, and your tankiness.
Will fix. CDR is cool, but it's in no way a priority stat. CDR has the side effect of running you OOM often. Diana does not have a ton of mana, and building mass mana (ie: Tear, ROA) is an overkill. The + mana on Lich Bane is nice because it helps you get more cycles off, but not enough where it's too much mana like ROA. CDR with a blue buff is nice, but as a jungler I cannot count on having all the blues, I normally hand off 3rd+ blue to mid.
NOTE: You can cast this while Q is in the air, land before the Q, and still get the reset. See attached video starting at 24s.
Wait what? I've watched that video and still don't understand: if you cast ult while Q is in the air, you get the reset regardless of whether you or the Q arrives first? I thought there was a timing where you had to throw Q and then arrive with your ult at the same time the Q hits.
Works like this.
Your ult has a faster animation/travel time than Q by a decent margin. Meaning you can throw a Q, ult, get to your target and do the ult damage BEFORE the q lands, the q hits, and you get the refresh.
It's confusing because they way the mechanic is explained in game is the moonlight has be be present first, however as long as the timing is close you will still get credit even if you arrive before the Q.
That clear it up?
Edit: if anyone has a links to decent (ie: small) pics of the items to throw with the it let me know. I didn't want to have to screen, resize, and upload all of them on top of writing this.
Edit: if anyone has a links to decent (ie: small) pics of the items to throw with the it let me know. I didn't want to have to screen, resize, and upload all of them on top of writing this.
On March 13 2014 15:43 deathray797 wrote: Diamond, do you prefer getting nashors or lich first and why?
Lately I have been rolling Nashor's 1st however both are solid options. I tend to go with Narhor's however because it's a better standalone item, Lich Bane really needs some AP behind it for those procs. However there is many times where I get the sheen before Nashor's is done and sit on it for a bit.
One way to determine for sure is how the game is going. Slow farm fests favor Nashor's, skirmish/gank heavy games tend to favor Lich.
Edit: Been playing a bunch of Diana jungle lately, she feels stronger than ever. With taxing being an accepted thing you can get some massive gold on her. Twin shadows so far not as amazing as I thought it might be.
Hey everyone still have the rest coming up, the last couple days have been a bit busy so bear with me. I also have been wanting to hammer out some more jungle Diana games on the live patches before I hit the playstyle section.
Very soon (not today however), sorry for the delay!
On March 17 2014 00:27 The_Unseen wrote: I think I played with someone camping this thread yesterday night, a great jungle Diana, can't remember his name though
Cool to hear, was curious if it has been helping anyone.
I'm going to hold off the rest of this until 4.4 hits and I have jungled Diana in it. Not sure how the Lich Bane nerfs are going to effect her.
Diamond, you mentioned playing Diana top against a friend playing Renekton as an example for her deceptively strong trading thanks to her passive. Do you have any general experience with and advice on playing her top that you could share?
After seeing this thread I decided to play Diana jungle for a bit; I'd played almost exclusively top for quite a while before that. I must say I really enjoy jungle Diana; she's uncommon (which I generally enjoy) but very much viable, and the specific runes you suggest do work very well.
But I don't see how you could stand up to top laners, especially bullies such as Renekton, pre-6. Do you still max W for top? Do you try to trade aggressively or wait for certain cooldows/combos? Or do you just play cowardly (sacrifice CS and recall if needed) until 6 and suicidally (all-in every time you hit a Q) after 6?
I'm a god awful top laner so take what I say with a MAJOR grain of salt. But when we played this matchup quite often it came down to Diana's W. If renek could avoid it and engage AFTER the shield was down he would eat her alive, but with the shield up she got enough passive procs to slide it in her favor.
I think she's a very poor top atm due to her mana requirements for laning being quite high. This was not as bad when you could afford an early flask but now with top being rush to tank stuff, she does not do well with it.
I would likely max W in a melee trade heavy lane, but Q otherwise. The problem with maxing W in lane is the cost gets WAYYY to high.
All in all, I would not pick her in top lane at this point.
got my first pentakill as Diana (I have had over 500games in ranked with no penta) so I'm extremely happy.
Faced Fizz (whom I hard counter), dominated him in lane, and proceeded to wreck the enemy adc / jg and got fed to 27 kills / 8 deaths by end game score. The only problem was the fed Shyv on the enemy team, and when Shyv is so tanky, you really don't want to focus him down even if he is snowballing.
My end game build was Lich, Deathcap, Zhonya, Sorc boots, Void Staff, and GA.
GA and Zhonya synergies on her so well. Her cooldowns are short enough that she can use them after 1 of these items, so she effectively has 3 lives in teamfights.
She is insanely strong right now in the right hands.In the hands of a skilled user, she effectively has 2 dashes (2 dashes is almost a necessity nowadays), her skills are very strong with good scaling, and is slightly tanky with a reliable CC and shield. She's pretty much a better version of Akali (stronger, tankier, better CC) with a Q and W that does AoE damage, while Akali's damage is only single-target except the weak-E. Akali is only better at escaping thanks to the shroud.
On September 15 2014 03:39 parkufarku wrote: got my first pentakill as Diana (I have had over 500games in ranked with no penta) so I'm extremely happy.
Faced Fizz (whom I hard counter), dominated him in lane, and proceeded to wreck the enemy adc / jg and got fed to 27 kills / 8 deaths by end game score. The only problem was the fed Shyv on the enemy team, and when Shyv is so tanky, you really don't want to focus him down even if he is snowballing.
My end game build was Lich, Deathcap, Zhonya, Sorc boots, Void Staff, and GA.
GA and Zhonya synergies on her so well. Her cooldowns are short enough that she can use them after 1 of these items, so she effectively has 3 lives in teamfights.
She is insanely strong right now in the right hands.In the hands of a skilled user, she effectively has 2 dashes (2 dashes is almost a necessity nowadays), her skills are very strong with good scaling, and is slightly tanky with a reliable CC and shield. She's pretty much a better version of Akali (stronger, tankier, better CC) with a Q and W that does AoE damage, while Akali's damage is only single-target except the weak-E. Akali is only better at escaping thanks to the shroud.
Ew.
Urgot is also insanely strong right now in the right hands.
On September 15 2014 11:22 Sufficiency wrote: Diana is really bad right now. You have to absolutely snowball the game to be effective.
She's serviceable. The problem is, if you miss a Q in a teamfight, you're pretty worthless unless you have zhonyas and you go in to setup a combo. Even then your impact isn't that high like that. If you land 95% of your Qs she's certainly not awful (lol i know).
She's a good pocket pick specially vs Fizz who's fairly common.
On September 15 2014 03:39 parkufarku wrote: got my first pentakill as Diana (I have had over 500games in ranked with no penta) so I'm extremely happy.
Faced Fizz (whom I hard counter), dominated him in lane, and proceeded to wreck the enemy adc / jg and got fed to 27 kills / 8 deaths by end game score. The only problem was the fed Shyv on the enemy team, and when Shyv is so tanky, you really don't want to focus him down even if he is snowballing.
My end game build was Lich, Deathcap, Zhonya, Sorc boots, Void Staff, and GA.
GA and Zhonya synergies on her so well. Her cooldowns are short enough that she can use them after 1 of these items, so she effectively has 3 lives in teamfights.
She is insanely strong right now in the right hands.In the hands of a skilled user, she effectively has 2 dashes (2 dashes is almost a necessity nowadays), her skills are very strong with good scaling, and is slightly tanky with a reliable CC and shield. She's pretty much a better version of Akali (stronger, tankier, better CC) with a Q and W that does AoE damage, while Akali's damage is only single-target except the weak-E. Akali is only better at escaping thanks to the shroud.
Ew.
Urgot is also insanely strong right now in the right hands.
On September 15 2014 09:38 KissBlade wrote: Diana is not a better version of Akali. Diana initiates a fight, Akali finishes one.
wait, wut? what is Akali better than Diana at, except for escaping?
Their roles aren't the same in a team fight. Akali can reset off fights while Diana has initiates and allows easier wombo combos. Diana's cd's are also more pronounced so you end up needing to AA for a fair amount of damage. If you're playing Akali the same way you're play Diana, you're going to get rocked where as Diana playing a style as Akali is not nearly going to have the same success as an Akali would.
Anyone else playing Diana after Runeglaive got introduced? I played her a few times pre 5.12 and she felt rather lackluster but she seems to be at a good place right now. Barring games where the enemy team has an Azir, Diana can stick to the back line, deal respectable AoE, and burst like an assassin on whoever you decide to Lunar Rush. Hardest part about her right now is determining when to Q so you can follow up with double R or when you really have to R in and E for the pull/slow. If you Q and miss but anticipated it to hit and R in anyways, you really miss out on your dps.
Runes: AS/Flat Armor/APperLevel/Flat AP Masteries: 21/9/0 with Arcane Blade Build: Ranger's/Runeglaive, Sorc Boots, NLR, Abyssal, Void, GA. Pretty much finish Runeglaive first because the Sheen proc damage is rather important. Buy NLR whenever you have enough gold, else buy the appropriate resists/pieces throughout the game. Zhonya's obviously very key to not only keep you alive but buy you time for CDs to come back up so you can QW again.
On June 28 2015 23:35 NeoIllusions wrote: Anyone else playing Diana after Runeglaive got introduced? I played her a few times pre 5.12 and she felt rather lackluster but she seems to be at a good place right now. Barring games where the enemy team has an Azir, Diana can stick to the back line, deal respectable AoE, and burst like an assassin on whoever you decide to Lunar Rush. Hardest part about her right now is determining when to Q so you can follow up with double R or when you really have to R in and E for the pull/slow. If you Q and miss but anticipated it to hit and R in anyways, you really miss out on your dps.
Runes: AS/Flat Armor/APperLevel/Flat AP Masteries: 21/9/0 with Arcane Blade Build: Ranger's/Runeglaive, Sorc Boots, NLR, Abyssal, Void, GA. Pretty much finish Runeglaive first because the Sheen proc damage is rather important. Buy NLR whenever you have enough gold, else buy the appropriate resists/pieces throughout the game. Zhonya's obviously very key to not only keep you alive but buy you time for CDs to come back up so you can QW again.
I haven't actively played her in a game, but I've tried it out in a few custom games and it is money on her. It helps her itemization by giving her the "Lichbane" that she wants while not having to find a slot to fit it in or 3k gold to purchase it with. It doesn't solve her being a "get to 6" jungler unless ganking for heavy CC, but that isn't the purpose. I want to try hybrid pen marks, cdr/lvl glyphs, and AS quints and see how that works out.
RG + passive autos makes for some nice big purple numbers.
Diana has absurd sustain in the jungle, doesn't even needs health potions after the first clear as long as you mix up your leveling a bit. What I've been doing (I have no idea if this is standard practice or not) is going Gromp Blue Wolves Chickens Red Golems recall, then coming back and doing Gromp again before deciding to gank or to keep farming. I'm usually leveling W-Q-W-Q-E-R and then after 6 going R>Q>W>E. Working pretty well for me so far.
I also get a second point in W at either 3 or 4, depending on if I gank (3rd point in Moonfall) or farm (3rd point in Pale Cascade). I don't feel like Diana is a "must farm til 6 before gank" kind of champion. CC in lane will always help but even against someone like Gnar, a good E can secure the kill. Main thing to look for is a lane that getting push into your turret so you can flank properly and allow you to hit QEW.
My starting route has been the usual Gromp, Blue, Red, Smite on Red if a lane is pushed and I can gank immediately otherwise don't Smite on Red and use it Rocks instead.
Too busy on the Kayle train after 5.13 came out but I'll prob give Diana a shot tomorrow. As for Machete upgrade, I still like Trailblazer because it helps with early jungle clears. Diana hits like a mack truck without Skirmishers.
I used to rush Zhonya's/Abyssal on her but a bigpro friend swear by RoA so I've been giving that a shot. Build feels kinda awkward but I think item builds changed even more with the new AP item costs.
Diana gets a lot of her survivability from her shield. +Health doesn't synergize with shields*, but resists do; I imagine this is why people tend to build items like zhonya's and abyssal on her.
* with shields that scale off of maxhp the obvious exception, like Nautilus and Vi
On July 14 2015 00:11 entropius wrote: Diana gets a lot of her survivability from her shield. +Health doesn't synergize with shields*, but resists do; I imagine this is why people tend to build items like zhonya's and abyssal on her.
* with shields that scale off of maxhp the obvious exception, like Nautilus and Vi
Definitely this.
It drives me insane when people don't know or don't follow this rule of thumb. I often see people defaulting to hp items when they want to get tanky even if they have a non hp scaling shield...Unless there's a needed effect (or secondary stat) on a particular item or the build-up is 100 times better its just stupid to do so.
It depends, I guess. If somebody is looking for generic durability HP might just be more effective to keep her damage up with than tandem buying Zhonya's + Abyssal. Ideal? No, but sometimes you don't have a choice between what you want to buy and what you need to buy. If I had to buy a health item it'd probably be Rylais, tbh.
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