|
On April 12 2012 11:09 Strykemard wrote:
I always thought he needed HoG and philo before he can move on to bigger items. But I guess if he can pull off a couple of good ganks rushing RoA is the best way to go.
Philo first is still best, but putting the health crystal into Cata instead of HoG is fine, especially if you're doing well. I generally don't miss the Gp10, and my ganks become way more workable.
|
After seeing TheOddOne and whoever was against Diamondprox earlier today get bossed around as jungle Nautilus by enemy Shyvanas on various streams, I don't feel as bad about my difficulties with that matchup (to the point where I won't pick Naut if the enemy still has their jungler open) - with Naut's dodgy Lvl1-4, Exhaust/Smite Shyvanas with red buff are brutal to run into in your jungle :/
|
Are people starting regrowth+pot on Nautilus? I go 0/21/9, with attack speed reds, flat armor yellows, scaling MR blues, and move speed quints and I always need to back after doing small golems. I can do a full clear and wraiths a second time and get level 4 before going back if I start cloth+5 pots. But I hate buying the cloth and sitting on it since I don't get Wriggle's.
Obviously I finish Philo then get HoG into Aegis if not ahead, but if I get fed I usually get a RoA instead.
Also what do you guys think of AP quints?
|
If you start wolves you need help, and then a really good pull on blue, otherwise you can't do red buff without dying (or too close to it to be worth trying).
|
On April 13 2012 08:49 Ferrose wrote:
Are people starting regrowth+pot on Nautilus? I go 0/21/9, with attack speed reds, flat armor yellows, scaling MR blues, and move speed quints and I always need to back after doing small golems. I can do a full clear and wraiths a second time and get level 4 before going back if I start cloth+5 pots. But I hate buying the cloth and sitting on it since I don't get Wriggle's.
Obviously I finish Philo then get HoG into Aegis if not ahead, but if I get fed I usually get a RoA instead.
Also what do you guys think of AP quints?
If you read the thread there are people running full armor pages and apparently this allows him to totally crush jungle 1-4 with the armor on his shield. I run more traditional runes and you are going to have to communicate that you need a very strong leash to do red comfortably, but its still doable.
If you dont do wolves first it also helps because you get shield and E to do them, only slow you down a little bit. Dont start cloth5.
|
TheOddOne actually said at some point that Nautilus would be the best jungler in the game if he didn't have to worry about counterjungling every time he went to gank. I can see where he's coming from; if you can land a hook early game that person is dead about seven times out of ten. He just does so much damage it's almost ridiculous. Anyone with a shield is REALLY strong late game once you have just a ton of resistances, and he has one of the most cc-intensive kits out there with a slow, a root for his passive, a disable/displace/gap closer for his Q, and one of the most annoying fuckers of an ult in the game.
|
his teamfighting is impressive, but his jungling leaves too much room for him to get too far behind if he fails ganks, I think he is more well suited to top on a passive player with teleport where you just farm up and your jungler can focus on other lanes. even if you are half cs as your opponent(really bad) you'll probably be just as useful due to his kit. if you've been CSing evenly and your carries aren't absolute shit, hes OP
|
Nautilus clears really well and ganks really well. I dunno why you worry about counterjungling because if it's a problem for nautilius maokai wouldn't even be viable. I guess he runs slowly so you just run all the udyr masteries and runes so you're still fast.
|
Something about nautilus just doesn't sit right with me, technically it should be like Malphite except everything is better, but my gut feeling still likes malphite more.
|
On April 14 2012 03:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Nautilus clears really well and ganks really well. I dunno why you worry about counterjungling because if it's a problem for nautilius maokai wouldn't even be viable. I guess he runs slowly so you just run all the udyr masteries and runes so you're still fast.
moakai clears fast and is an underrated fighter. single target snare, spammable knockup and his passive all make him tough to invade
|
On April 14 2012 03:51 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Nautilus clears really well and ganks really well. I dunno why you worry about counterjungling because if it's a problem for nautilius maokai wouldn't even be viable. I guess he runs slowly so you just run all the udyr masteries and runes so you're still fast. moakai clears fast and is an underrated fighter. single target snare, spammable knockup and his passive all make him tough to invade
Yeah, this - Mao has good single-target damage early-on with strong base damage and a reasonable cooldown on Q; his first jungle clear is blazingly fast assuming you get a sapling stack on something. Naut's sort of the opposite - beastly AOE deeps, but on long cooldowns, and his first clear can be a little fragile. I run full armor runes, get help on wolves, and can still get mucked about by a bad leash (so many mids/bots manage to kill a wolf or two/split XP despite retreat ping spam from me) or a particularly aggro invasion from an Shyvana/Lee running Exhaust.
|
On April 14 2012 03:51 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Nautilus clears really well and ganks really well. I dunno why you worry about counterjungling because if it's a problem for nautilius maokai wouldn't even be viable. I guess he runs slowly so you just run all the udyr masteries and runes so you're still fast. moakai clears fast and is an underrated fighter. single target snare, spammable knockup and his passive all make him tough to invade
Nautilus clears way faster than maokai and using less mana.
|
|
|
On April 14 2012 05:26 Glaceau wrote:
proof?
Play a game as maokai and then play a game as nautilus? I usually go chalice on maokai because you can't sustain your clear speeds when you spam your abilities. Nautilius can clear as fast as maokai all the time.
|
On April 14 2012 05:31 Slayer91 wrote:Play a game as maokai and then play a game as nautilus?
yea and maokai jungles way faster everytime on first clear. not sure what game you are playing
also chalice pretty troll since Q uses barely any mana and thats all you use to clear after first clear.
|
His first clear is faster, sure, but clears without blue buff?
I'm not sure how you don't have any mana issues on maokai if you could post a replay of yourself playing maokai and getting decent cs without going back all the time I'd be much obliged.
|
On April 14 2012 05:35 Slayer91 wrote:
His first clear is faster, sure, but clears without blue buff?
I'm not sure how you don't have any mana issues on maokai if you could post a replay of yourself playing maokai and getting decent cs without going back all the time I'd be much obliged.
yea and we are talking about counterjungling early in the game when nautilus is weak, dont comment if you dont even read the thread.
moakai has no problems on first clear counters, naut does.
also maokai is played the same way as jungle alistar pretty much, you get your philo/hog/boots of mobility then just constantly gank. there is little jungling after that.
|
On April 14 2012 05:37 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:35 Slayer91 wrote:
His first clear is faster, sure, but clears without blue buff?
I'm not sure how you don't have any mana issues on maokai if you could post a replay of yourself playing maokai and getting decent cs without going back all the time I'd be much obliged. yea and we are talking about counterjungling early in the game when nautilus is weak, dont comment if you dont even read the thread. moakai has no problems on first clear counters, naut does. also maokai is played the same way as jungle alistar pretty much, you get your philo/hog/boots of mobility then just constantly gank. there is little jungling after that.
Excuse me?
On April 13 2012 23:07 noggnoskill wrote:
TheOddOne actually said at some point that Nautilus would be the best jungler in the game if he didn't have to worry about counterjungling every time he went to gank. .
After ganking implies post first clear.
Playing maokai with constant ganking and boots of mobility? When you have seen that in competitive play. Spamming ganking isn't a strategy that works because it gets countered by wards and passive play and junglers who farm until they can invade you when they're way stronger.
Anyway first clear counter jungling is a matter of coordinating with your mid who should be closer. Nautilus still has 3 forms of CC around level 3 so it shouldn't be a huge problem. Not like maokai beats lee sin or mundo or shyv in jungle, and he doesn't have an escape. I'd say he's even weaker.
|
On April 14 2012 05:44 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:37 Glaceau wrote:On April 14 2012 05:35 Slayer91 wrote:
His first clear is faster, sure, but clears without blue buff?
I'm not sure how you don't have any mana issues on maokai if you could post a replay of yourself playing maokai and getting decent cs without going back all the time I'd be much obliged. yea and we are talking about counterjungling early in the game when nautilus is weak, dont comment if you dont even read the thread. moakai has no problems on first clear counters, naut does. also maokai is played the same way as jungle alistar pretty much, you get your philo/hog/boots of mobility then just constantly gank. there is little jungling after that. Excuse me? Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:07 noggnoskill wrote:
TheOddOne actually said at some point that Nautilus would be the best jungler in the game if he didn't have to worry about counterjungling every time he went to gank. . After ganking implies post first clear. Playing maokai with constant ganking and boots of mobility? When you have seen that in competitive play. Spamming ganking isn't a strategy that works because it gets countered by wards and passive play and junglers who farm until they can invade you when they're way stronger. Anyway first clear counter jungling is a matter of coordinating with your mid who should be closer. Nautilus still has 3 forms of CC around level 3 so it shouldn't be a huge problem. Not like maokai beats lee sin or mundo or shyv in jungle, and he doesn't have an escape. I'd say he's even weaker.
does it look like I typed that? that's an entirely different person. you might be blind. My post in no way correlates with his.
No one here is looking to go pro and from my post I am clearly talking about actually playing, instead of simulating some theorycraft bullshit.
and finally, why cant the counterjungler coordinate too? Just get your mid to push lane so when he goes to invade their mid has to miss farm or help. hurp durp.
|
You just have to run Nautilus in a comp with a strong jungle presence mid like cass/Ahri/LB/Brand/viktor. Place a few jungle wards and you should be good to go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
