EPT[Champion] Nautilus - Page 7
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 04 2013 10:38 Haasts wrote: Moving this from GD as the original post had been somewhat, ah, drowned: I've found the opposite - last two ranked games I've ended up playing Naut on purple side, and both games thanks to my team I managed to go wolves/Smiteless blue/wraiths/red with Smite, grab Q, and gank top. Since the small minions die a lot more easily from W/E AOE, not having the second point in W doesn't slow you down as much as it used to, or at least you take slightly less incidental damage. Need to muck around with grabbing CDR boots instead of Mobos and seeing if I can skip Glacial Shroud altogether with the armor gained from Locket/Aegis/Spirit of the Elder Golem. What I meant is that since the big creep has more HP, he is more susceptible to surviving your shield, hence raising (somewhat drastically, especially on golems) the time needed to get rid of the whole camp, despite the little ones dying a swing or two faster. And 100 HP is still a very weak amount compared to the big creep's damage. At least that was my experience. | ||
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
Madreds on nautilus? Dear god why, his AS is like a frozen snail with arthritis. I never tried Madred's on Nautilus, it never seemed like an obvious choice, any thoughts on why it would be a good purchase? The logic is: since at the moment I leave the machete to be the machete for the entire game (or until i sell it for a giants belt or something). Machete->Madreds is a 400g upgrade which, ignoring the passive, grants 450-500g worth of armor. Even though Naut's AS is slow, he likes armor, and his AS is not so slow that the proc is useless, just less valuable (let's call it half) than it might be on someone like lee sin or xin zhao. Like I said I'm not sure whether or not I like it, but I don't understand why I never see it or why it is universally panned ("dear god why"). There are worst decisions you can make in the game than being force fed cheap armor as a tank, no? Especially if that cheap armor happens to make you just a tiny bit more capable of clearing dragon or stealing a buff on a champion who is not strong at either of those two things. On February 04 2013 15:22 TomatoShark wrote: I go 0/21/9 attack speed red armor yellow scaling mr and ms quints rush 5 boots gank and golem then either aegis or fh then magic res or whtaever else i need. usually you ult carries and q them or just peel for your carry with your awesome auto attacks :D I don't understand the rationale on using MS quints for a champion on whom I am buying Boots5 on my first back (hopefully, at least with my first 1000g if I have to back early) since the Boots 5 already puts you on diminishing returns. In S2 I would like them, but because I was sitting on Boots 1 for longer. I'm a bit surprised you go for the CDR glyphs, any reason in particular? Easier jungling, or idk? I go for the MR or MR/lvl glyphs, and the rest of my runes are the same as you. Nautilus is all about his W. It's a huge boost to his defense and his offense. At Lvl5 and 40% cdr it can be cast every 10.8s and lasts for 10s (unless you take damage). CDR in and of itself isn't expensive, but it has an availability limitation since you need to complete items to get it and junglers are often quite poor. MR/lvl glyphs on a jungler are about as cost effective runes as you can get and I cant argue with that (especially a jungler with shield or lifesteal), but you can always stop what you are doing and buy a null mantle or negatron if you need MR, you can't do that with CDR (thats my logic at least). Maybe trying to get cdr from runes isn't the best way to go about this but it's what I'm doing atm. | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On February 06 2013 02:44 mockturtle wrote: [There are worst decisions you can make in the game than being force fed cheap armor as a tank, no? Especially if that cheap armor happens to make you just a tiny bit more capable of clearing dragon or stealing a buff on a champion who is not strong at either of those two things. There is no rule in the game that says you should get a madred if you have machete + cloth armor in your inventory, you can upgrade the cloth to something more meaningful on nautilus (like tabi/locket/aegis/warden's mail) and upgrade the machete to spirit stone. Most of nautilus clearing power comes from his W, which damage is amplified by both machete or spirit stone but downgraded by getting madred. I don't understand why you would prefer to rely on your autoattacks rather than your spells when it comes to doing dragon or stealing a buff. | ||
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
On February 06 2013 04:48 NpG)Explosive wrote: There is no rule in the game that says you should get a madred if you have machete + cloth armor in your inventory, you can upgrade the cloth to something more meaningful on nautilus (like tabi/locket/aegis/warden's mail) and upgrade the machete to spirit stone. Most of nautilus clearing power comes from his W, which damage is amplified by both machete or spirit stone but downgraded by getting madred. I don't understand why you would prefer to rely on your autoattacks rather than your spells when it comes to doing dragon or stealing a buff. you're missing my point. if you own a machete and a cloth armor, the upgrade cost to madreds gives you +10 armor at the cost you would normally pay for +5 armor (at the cost of cloth armor). i'm not saying you *have* to upgrade it to a madreds, but if you like armor, why would you say no to discounted armor? the fact that the spirit stone has been cheapened by 100g may make this argument pointless because buying spirit stone is now a better idea. however, spirit stone grants a 20% dmg increase, machete offers 10%, and madreds offers a proc which evens out to +75 on auto attack dmg. a 10% increase of nautilus' W proc and passive and base aa damage at level 9 equates to +26.4 damage, at level 18 this is +34.8 damage. This is +52.8 and +69.6 damage for a spirit stone. the machete proc is effectively +75 to your auto attack damage. while this doesn't consider the splash of naut's W proc or his E, companion jungle minions are now too weak to worry about and spamming your mana/cooldowns on jungle minions is not necessarily the best idea -- if you are stealing a buff or doing dragon under duress you may want/need your Q or E to get away or fight. regardless, unless i'm doing the math wrong this means that one idea is not clearly better than the other even though it may seem that way since the item isn't "meant" for a jungler like nautilus. and i never said madreds was a must buy, i just said i wondered about it. but anyway, they made spirit stone cheaper a couple days ago so maybe taking it instead (and instead of philo) is the better way to go about it. one nice thing about the philosopher's stone was that shurelias is also a nice item on nautilus, but for the price of having a machete+philo you can now have a spirit stone+cloth armor and be on your way to finishing a locket | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Actually I'm not sure if with the jungle changes you couldn't max Q before or alongside E, since it isn't as needed and even though it's always 2s longer than Amumu, who knows, maybe you'll get to Q a second time in ganks/fights that way. And yeah, Naut is really slow and weak pre-3, and can't gank pre-4 because of that. Pretty awkward for a gank-oriented jungler... | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On February 08 2013 04:47 Alaric wrote: The skill order is good, 'cept past those levels it's more R>W>E>Q, the Q cd hurts really hard but you want your shield maxed at the earliest so you can clear faster (your clear is shit without it, especially with the big monsters having more HP now, E doesn't do enough), take more of a beating, and also because it's your damage tool: as long as it lasts, and you've got ~1 AS, it's around 150 dps in an AoE around your target, not that bad, especially during the midgame if you get to bash a squishy. The cdr for a second shield during a fight is pretty huge. Actually I'm not sure if with the jungle changes you couldn't max Q before or alongside E, since it isn't as needed and even though it's always 2s longer than Amumu, who knows, maybe you'll get to Q a second time in ganks/fights that way. And yeah, Naut is really slow and weak pre-3, and can't gank pre-4 because of that. Pretty awkward for a gank-oriented jungler... Well that game I had it easy mode because I was like 3-0 by the 10th minute, lol. I think I got a warmog by the 17th minute (and that is after sightstone and spirit stone). I had the game in the bag and it was not a good representation. But you are right maxing Q was probably not the safest way to go. | ||
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
On February 08 2013 04:14 Sufficiency wrote: What should I max first exactly with Naut jungle? I played him once today in normal because I had to jungle and he was free. I went for WEWQWR then R > Q > W = E (purely on top of my head), but I got really lucky to be able to get to lvl 4 without anyone counterjungling me..... i always do r>w>e>q, with q at level 3 if i'm ganking then. i guess you could do something else, but it never occurred to me to consider it since w is so good | ||
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
 . I mean what other quints are you going to take armor hp ap?? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Purge
Canada372 Posts
On February 09 2013 06:23 Alaric wrote: Armour is pretty good for keeping his shield up actually. Teut and I ran some tests at one point (because Monte advocated armour/armour/MR/armour on Naut/Amumu to allow them to clear even without a leash at all, I kept it out of habit and Teut pointed out that with people giving leashes more consistently it would be worth trying), and iirc on a solo run an AS/armour/MR/armour page was faster that the AS/armour/MR/MS page, allowing you a faster and safer first clear, which is the main weakness of Naut I believe (useless, slow and vulnerable at early levels). Xypherous, his designer (and the main architect of the S3 item reworks) has said that his kit is designed to scale with armor and mr primarily as his tank stats, instead of health. The health ratio on his W is there to prevent it from becoming irrelevant lategame. He's also said hes considering looking at buffs to shields in general because they are weak now that health has become the primary tank stat (im paraphrasing, Ill find quotes if I need to). Take that for what you may. | ||
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Sven Stryker
United States423 Posts
Nautilus no longer loses W ticks when he's over 1.00 attack speed, correct? I think I can see a 2nd magic damage tick with different damage values when over 1.00 attack speed. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
If it doesn't work like this then it means Riot managed to break it again at some point. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On February 25 2013 06:53 Sven Stryker wrote: Just a quick question: Nautilus no longer loses W ticks when he's over 1.00 attack speed, correct? I think I can see a 2nd magic damage tick with different damage values when over 1.00 attack speed. I can confirm that he only can have one tick of damage on a target. Sometimes it appears that there's two separate ticks but I'm almost 100% sure it's just a bug with the font being a bit more delayed than usual. I couldn't recreate it happening for sake of thoroughness, but I've seen it before in one of my many support Nautilus games. | ||
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InfSunday
United States735 Posts
Another question, what are people building after FotM/Sightstone/boots? Pretty much always a locket, or is Righteous Glory still an ok buy if the enemy team doesn't have too much magic damage? | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I think a support after Talisman/Face + Sightstone + Boots is primarily interested in: Zeke's Harbinger (if your ADC scales off crit) Mikael's Crucible (if they have hard CC that you need to cleanse) Locket of the Iron Solari / Banner of Command (if they have lots of magic damage) Righteous Glory (if you have a run-at-them-comp and need engage) Frozen Heart (if they have diving AA'ers) Ardent Censer (if you are Sona/Janna/etc.) If multiple conditions apply, I'd probably put it in roughly that priority order too. A lot depends on whether your top or jungler is getting any of these items. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
I'm not sure what reds are best on Naut. Armor seem fine though. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 23 2015 02:59 InfSunday wrote: What are people running for Nautilus support in terms of runes/masteries? I've been using armor reds/yellows/2quints, 1 gold quint, MRes blues, with 0/13/17, but I have no idea if that's any good or not. Another question, what are people building after FotM/Sightstone/boots? Pretty much always a locket, or is Righteous Glory still an ok buy if the enemy team doesn't have too much magic damage? I run Armor Reds: HP (or scaling armor) Yellows Armor(or MR) Quints Scaling MR Blues I go 4/23/3 4 points of sorcery/3 points fleet of foot 2 Block/2 swiftness 1 Unyielding/3 Veteran's Scars 1 Tenacious/1 Juggernaut/3 Hardiness/3 Resistance 1 Reinforced Armor/ 1 Evasive (Swap out for 1 Enchanted Armor if low AoE) 3(4) Enchanted Armor/1 Oppression 1 Legendary Guardian The amount of raw Armor/MR that Legendary Guardian(+3 Armor/MR per enemy close) and effective armor than Reinforced Armor gives(its worth 20-50 armor against lategame ADC's, potentially more), plus the fact that Oppression is basically always active are essential for playing him as a support. Its easy to get CDR/HP as a support, and everything else in the support tree takes too long to be effective. With the flat armor page you walk into lane with between +31.25 armor [3 enchanted, one enemy in range) and +35.2 armor (4 enchanted, 2 enemies in range). And this scales well into the lategame, easily breaking the gold advantage from the puny amount of GP/10 the final points in the support tree provides. Minus the final parts of the defensive tree you're at 26. Plus in a lategame teamfight the extra poitns will be providing around 18 extra armor even if you haven't bought any extra (which you should because armor items are very good on him) Another decent option is 0/21/9 if you think you really need the pot value instead of the smidgen of CDR (drop to 2(3) points in enchanted armor) Edit: With full points in Greed, Scavenger, and wealth it takes 12 minutes of perfect CS to make up for the the immediate team fight impact of just Legendary Guardian. (So not including the extra MR, the 2% damage reduction from enemies being slowed, the reduced AoE damage, and the 5-10% bonus bonus armor/mr) | ||
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