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I've been playing around with Nautilus since he was released, and I've been having the most success / fun with a AP and HP centric build overall. If laning, I'd open dorans into whatever and aim for a Rylais quickly; if jungling, I'd open cloth5 into boots and aim for rylais quickly as well.
My question is this: Is Rylais worth it on Nautilus assuming that AP and HP are the general build goals, or is it actually completely useless?
My question comes from the fact that only Nautilus' Q, E, and R apply the slow from Rylais (which lasts for 1.5 seconds). R stuns the target for 1 / 1.5 / 2 seconds, meaning that at lv1 rylais is only appled for 0.5s and after that it doesn't do anything at all. E is AoE so it's only a 15% slow stacked multiplicatively with the natural slow of E, which I suspect is a negligible increase. I can't seem to find how long Q stuns for, but it would seem to knock at least 0.5s off of the slow from Rylais.
Would anyone recommend replacing Rylais in my build with, say, RoA or Abyssal early on?
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get RoA instead. Statwise, the upgrade to rylai's isn't giving you a lot, so if the slow has a negligible impact on your kit, it's not worth it at all.
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United States37500 Posts
Rylai's is very redundant on a champion like Naut. Your primary skill (E) already has a bit in slow. R is a knockup and Q displaces the enemy. RoA is better in all circumstances.
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Simple enough, thank you for the quick answers.
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Wit's end without any AS (runes/masteries) puts you at 0.96 AS. Doesn't allow for the "< 1 AS" if you go with AS reds. Damn effective nonetheless.
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Playing a lot of Naut here's my thoughts:
masteries: 9/12/9 or 9/21/0
runes: quints could be mpen, AP, or ms. I use ms due to lack of runepages and running faster is never bad.
reds i would only use atk speed or mpen. here's the thing about attack speed: it lets you apply more stacks of your W. I haven't tested it but i estimate you get an extra 1-2 attacks with the W stack on them before the shield runs out (for level 1-2 W)
items:
Philo is good, HoG as well but i don't consider it as mandatory as a Philo. Naut needs mana, and if you're giving the blue buff to your AP you need philo.
RoA: if i'm doing well i skip HoG and grab catalyst into this. it's awesome on naut. core, IMO
Frozen Heart: probably should be considered core, has everything you need. Glacial Shroud is fine until later game when teamfights are more prevalent.
Boots: honestly, you can make a case for almost any of the boots except swiftness and berserker's. treads or tabi are top 2 though, cdr boots 3rd but you need to plan you masteries/items if you get those to not exceed the cap
Wit's End: the attack speed lets you dish out some seriously high damage with your W. magic resist isn't bad, gotta figure out best way to fit it in the build though
Abyssal Scepter: the only other AP item besides Rod that i think is worth considering
Aegis: it's a great item that i always want to see on my team, problem is it's hard to fit it in on Naut and can delay your better tank items quite a bit. but if your support doesn't get it, Naut probably should since he has 2-3 other teammates that should be doing more damage than him and it's his job to protect them
Shurelya's: hit the cdr cap, awesome active, bonus health. 40% cdr is almost mandatory, i feel, and this is the best item to get you there (unless you want Morello's Tome or Nashor's Tooth? lol)
all others are situational, but always tanky (Banshee's, FoN, Randuins)
I do not buy: Rylai's (redundant) Sunfire Cape (too expensive for what you get), Mallet (redundant)
the hardest part is overcoming your garbage first few levels. it feels like Naut starts to pick up around 4-5, hits 6, then just starts rolling and is a beast throughout mid to late game.
also you guys probably noticed this but you can Q to turrets for ganking/escaping
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I disagree on the boots.
I find boots of mobility great on Nautilus, as the amount of CC he has is excellent for ganks.
Also it feels badass to go so fast with a big moffo
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the thing is hes so fat and clunky it doesnt matter how fast you're going it still feels like you're going at 200 movespeed
i know this not just me
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Is Naut a fast jungle? I've been playing vs him quite a bit lately as Lee Sin, but I'm not sure if I'd clear fast enough to counterjungle and take his red.
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He's slow on the first camps because his shield isn't strong enough for him to get its dps for the whole duration. If you can get a good leash on your blue (for example) to kill it fast enough, I guess you could jack his red, yes. Be aware that he may get to it faster than some other junglers, tho, because without help (and you don't get it more often than not in soloQ) he can't start wolves reliably, so he doesn't get back there after wraiths.
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He's fairly fast, so if you're trying to grab his red after you grab your blue you're probably going to run into him there. It's unlikely that Nautilus will beat a Lee Sin 1v1 that early unless you're low on health, but he'll live long enough that there's a huge risk of being collapsed upon by his team.
Note: This assumes Nautilus is using a full armor rune page. It's probably safe at this point to assume most Nautilus players are running something more mundane, and as a result they'll jungle slower and with less safety (e.g. Nautilus with a full armor rune page can do wolves before blue, but most other setups can't).
The moral of the story is a full armor rune page is OP.
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On March 15 2012 03:23 Seuss wrote:
He's fairly fast, so if you're trying to grab his red after you grab your blue you're probably going to run into him there. It's unlikely that Nautilus will beat a Lee Sin 1v1 that early unless you're low on health, but he'll live long enough that there's a huge risk of being collapsed upon by his team.
Note: This assumes Nautilus is using a full armor rune page. It's probably safe at this point to assume most Nautilus players are running something more mundane, and as a result they'll jungle slower and with less safety (e.g. Nautilus with a full armor rune page can do wolves before blue, but most other setups can't).
The moral of the story is a full armor rune page is OP.
Running attackspeed on naut speeds up your jungling quite a lot actually, getting a few extra hits off with shield early is pretty damn powerfull. It allows you to hit lvl 4/double buff with enough health to gank after opening restotrinky + health pot. This is with a leash on blue ofc. (and wolves-blue-wraith-wolves-red-wraith jungling)
About invading with ls vs naut, if you go wolves,blue -> his red he can see you doing it if he decides to walk up from wraith. If he hits you while you're doing red you're pretty dead (with you being in his jungle and all).
So it's doable but relies on him not checking red while you're doing it. One well placed & timed cv from your support tells you all you need to know though.
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On March 15 2012 03:59 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 03:23 Seuss wrote:
He's fairly fast, so if you're trying to grab his red after you grab your blue you're probably going to run into him there. It's unlikely that Nautilus will beat a Lee Sin 1v1 that early unless you're low on health, but he'll live long enough that there's a huge risk of being collapsed upon by his team.
Note: This assumes Nautilus is using a full armor rune page. It's probably safe at this point to assume most Nautilus players are running something more mundane, and as a result they'll jungle slower and with less safety (e.g. Nautilus with a full armor rune page can do wolves before blue, but most other setups can't).
The moral of the story is a full armor rune page is OP. Running attackspeed on naut speeds up your jungling quite a lot actually, getting a few extra hits off with shield early is pretty damn powerfull. It allows you to hit lvl 4/double buff with enough health to gank after opening restotrinky + health pot. This is with a leash on blue ofc. (and wolves-blue-wraith-wolves-red-wraith jungling) About invading with ls vs naut, if you go wolves,blue -> his red he can see you doing it if he decides to walk up from wraith. If he hits you while you're doing red you're pretty dead (with you being in his jungle and all). So it's doable but relies on him not checking red while you're doing it. One well placed & timed cv from your support tells you all you need to know though.
A full armor rune page allows you to hit level 4 with double buffs and full health starting boots + 3 potions (with 2 potions to spare if you got a leash). If you already have attack speed runes (but not the odd slot armor runes) then it makes sense to use them, but armor runes accomplish everything attack speed runes do and then some.
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I don't like AS reds that much, since it makes Wit's less interesting as it would make you go over 1 AS, reducing your dps with W.
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Still playing around with it but nautilus top feels extremely strong. If you can't kill him early then he just gets ridiculously tanky and hard to push out of lane. He has great gank support, doesn't have a lot of bad matchups, and scales very well with farm.
Anyone play him top much? Any advice?
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FYI I tested Nautilus on the PBE, and the change to Teemo's poison also affects Nautilus' W. You can safely go over 1.0 attack speed without actively reducing your damage.
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Wait, so are we looking at RoA from a jungle role nowadays? I know it's a sick good item on him, but I don't know about spending that money on it when you're already getting less than a laner. But, your ganks are strong enough... dunno.
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On April 09 2012 11:24 Seuss wrote:
FYI I tested Nautilus on the PBE, and the change to Teemo's poison also affects Nautilus' W. You can safely go over 1.0 attack speed without actively reducing your damage.
thank god
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I've found RoA to be workable from the jungle - Catalyst pull double duty for him w/the health portion increasing the strength of his W (esp w/full armor runes) as well as helping with his mana when you're donating blue.
Glad to hear about the PBE change - will offer a few less restrictions in runes/masteries/builds.
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I always thought he needed HoG and philo before he can move on to bigger items. But I guess if he can pull off a couple of good ganks rushing RoA is the best way to go.
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EPT
