[Champion] Pantheon - Page 13

On December 16 2011 01:23 Mogwai wrote:

fine

look at the interactions between the two champs.

Pantheon has his 2 strongest abilities as low mana cost, low CD, AD Scaling nukes, one of which is a channel. He has a stun and semi-global presence via his ult. He's most effective @ levels 1-9 and tends to taper off after level 13. His Passive blocks auto attacks and is refreshed by his stun.

Nasus has an Attack Modifier that requires last hits to scale well. He has decent AoE creep clearing with spirit fire. He has a giant move/attack speed debuff with wither and a strong teamfighting ult steroid. He's a garbage character until level 11 and a ton of Q farm and needs to get into melee range to farm said Q. The only way he wins lane trades is via hitting Qs.

Alright, so, Pantheon bosses everyone up @ low levels, even those with strong level 1 skills. Spear Shot + Aegis Protection is too strong. So you can't fight him level 1 unless you have a deathwish, especially as nasus. You can't get last hits without fighting him because that's what Pantheon does. You're zoned, right off the bat. You don't catch up to the point where you can 1v1 Pantheon ever because you can never get the farm to hit your sweet spot because a great Pantheon won't let you get there. Nasus's best 1v1 skills are whither and siphoning strike. Pantheon's Aegis will fuck up siphoning strike, even if you do a regular attack to pop the proc, Pantheon can respond by stunning you before you get the Q off if he's any good at all, meaning you're just never going to land a Q while aegis is off CD. Whither is mana intensive and does proportionally little to Pantheon's damage output compared to most characters because it doesn't do anything to Spear Shot or HSS. So basically, Nasus's only hope is to power level Spirit Fire, get philo + glacial shroud and just use Spirit Fire to Farm and Whither to disengage unless he gets ganks. By the time you get to that point, you're staring down at a pantheon with bare minimum brutalizer + 2 dblades + several hundred gold in the bank (assuming even farm, which is only possible if your jungle puts himself behind to camp top to force Pantheon to be honest). This gameplan leaves you with a team with no map control on the bottom half of the map for the early section of the game in exchange for a nasus with poor Q farm and an underfarmed jungler... ok, super, how is this acceptable again?

Like, tell me a character that can't do at least that well if not better with a jungler camping for them. What makes nasus a good pick here? He can't get his early Q farm, he has a terrible skill set for 1v1ing Pantheon, if this is our strategy, why aren't we just picking Irelia and camping the lane. Irelia with wriggle's + chain vest is more resilient vs. pantheon and more threatening to him than a Nasus with Glacial + Philo and she scales almost as hard off the same farm.

What I'm saying is that the Nasus pick isn't what's worrying me as Pantheon, it's the fucking jungler camping my lane. If he's not, I will destroy Nasus. If that's not a bad matchup, I don't know what is and I might as well quit LoL because I don't understand the fundamental concepts of the game.

On December 16 2011 23:20 turdburgler wrote:


unless im missing something, whats stopping nasus just farming under his turret? open cloth +5 and just q farm under a turret. if you cant get last hits with a 100 dmg ability then playing nasus isnt your problem anyway.

On December 16 2011 20:13 Alaric wrote:
Teams:
Panth (top) - Morgana (mid) - Ahri (bot) - Twitch (roamer) - Volibear (jungler)
vs
Malphite (top) - Brand (mid) - Xin Zhao (jungler) - Teemo/Ahri (bot)

I managed to maul Malphite enough that Xin was very often at my lane (turned it into a 1v2 several times, killed Xin when he dived) and Brand had to come and gank sometimes too. They took my tower while I was dead and one or two continued to come back every time I pushed to their tower (with wards) so I couldn't kill it but diverted them.
It still went far into the lategame (66 minutes game) and I felt quite useless as Brand had the burst to 100-0 me (zerkers, GA, 2 BT, a DB, LW, scaling mr blues), and Xin's autos would straight up beat me because of aspd I think, so I basically ulted into the back of the teamfights and destroyed whoever was in range to queue W-E during the drop (usually Teemo or Xin), then I got bursted down by whoever was still alive.

Morg destroyed midtower first because of Brand often trying to gank me or bot, and Voli/Twitch barely went into top jungle (we were purple side) since bot had troubles early on.
I got blamed for trying to burst people and getting myself killed often in teamfights, rather than sticking with the team, but ideally should I have pressed them to push like mad and win bot while Xin was forced to camp top? Then splitpushed or tried to flank people in teamfights to avoid the burst?

We won in the end (farmed Twitch too powerful + my E's output was sick with 400+ AD), but I really felt useless. I didn't know what to replace my last DB with, I felt like with 160 armor + 120 mr and only 2200 HP FM would have been good for survivability, but should I even have farmed a warmog? Another BT would have felt like overkill, plus I didn't get to auto much after E so the lifesteal was only really useful whenever I survived a teamfight.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun with him, not regretting the IP in the least. I just got blamed so much I'm wondering if I played bad or if it's my team's fault for not capitalizing on my early game.

On December 16 2011 23:20 turdburgler wrote:


unless im missing something, whats stopping nasus just farming under his turret? open cloth +5 and just q farm under a turret. if you cant get last hits with a 100 dmg ability then playing nasus isnt your problem anyway.

On December 21 2011 04:15 Mogwai wrote:
Guide updated.

On December 21 2011 11:20 L wrote:
Panth v Nasus goes a bit like this: Nasus opens cloth 5. Nasus drinks lots of potions, uses Q on creeps. Backs for a pink ward + items around 900 gold in. Panth gets repeatedly ganked at Nasus's tower. The end. Panth spears run out if he tries to pressure significantly during levels 1-2, so nasus shouldn't have a problem cashwise. If panth does put excessive pressure during those levels, even a failed jungle gank can give him enough face time with creeps to net him an easy 3-4 spears worth of damage in lifesteal.



Shield blocks spear entirely + extra if you run a cloth opening, but Spear has half the cooldown of shield. You still can't do very much to panth sitting in the creeps even if you chump his spear because he has block up when you go in. But you don't really need to; your goal is to dash in during a spear, last hit as much as possible while using q to keep you out of auto range, then get out around 2 seconds after the second spear he tosses. Panth, however, if he tries to harrass you, will push his lane, and most jungles can eviscerate an overextended panth with a riven around.

That's my experience at least; jungle chain free kills on panth as long as riven pink wards the bush.

Short version: if you can chump spears, you will be okay.

On December 21 2011 15:13 LoCicero wrote:
I'll add my 2 cents.

For Pantheon vs. Nasus I see no possible way Nasus can survive this lane unless he runs full defensive tree and armor yellows/quints. Ultimately Pantheon with a doran blade opening will run Nasus through pots faster than Pantheon loses mana. I really don't see how this lane could even go remotely well for Nasus. His only hope would be to max spirit fire and farm with that since sitting around in lane for extended periods of time will get him crushed in a 1v1 scenario. Of course his jungler will probably come and help him, but that's not what this discussion is about imo. This discussion is about a 1v1 matchup with no intervention.

As for Riven, I'm pretty sure Pantheon can beat her just fine. Recently I played a game (ranked, at 2.1k) where I was up against their first pick riven. I got lvl 2 ganked before i could hit 2 and died. I promptly came back to lane and killed Riven twice and then she couldn't touch me. Again maybe this riven was just garbage, but I'm pretty confident Pantheon wins this match-up too. I started doran blade opening with full armor penetration reds/quints, offensive masteries ofc (21 - 0 - 9).